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[orthodox-synod] Re: Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

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  • PWRBarrett@aol.com
    In a message dated 3/30/00 3:58:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, emrys@globe.net.nz writes:
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 30, 2000
      In a message dated 3/30/00 3:58:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      emrys@... writes:

      << I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a
      sober life style. >>

      Reverend Father,

      I've had any number of friends and acquaintances who've been involved
      in Alcoholics Anonymous and/or Narcotics Anonymous, and my
      impression is that on the whole, for those who make either organization
      a regular part of their lives, they help.

      One thing I have some reservations about is the idea all these people
      have -- and I don't know whether this is official 12-step teaching or
      not -- that "just one drink" or "just one hit of a joint" will set them off
      again on a downward spiral. There is no possibility of temperate
      consumption. A result seems to be that when these people "fall,"
      they tend to go off on a long period of binge drinking (or drug use).
      They seem to feel this is the inevitable consequence of not being
      totally abstinent, and seem to enjoy this period of "backsliding"
      before returning to the program. So the result is often a cycle of
      bingeing, then total abstinence, then more bingeing. Admittedly,
      that's better than bingeing all the time.

      Love,

      Patrick
    • Afanassy Thompson
      ... Hash: SHA1 ... e Nikolaj, e Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned. I know e people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 30, 2000
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        >>>>> "e" == emrys`nz <emrys@...> writes:

        e> Nikolaj,
        e> Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned. I know
        e> people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a
        e> sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through
        e> the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the
        e> one lost sheep?

        His assertions are not unfounded at all. AA/NA rely on anecdotal
        "evidence" to support their claims which bear little scientific
        scrutiny. Their recovery rates actually are no better than anyone
        elses.

        It is dangerous to begin indoctrinating abusers with the odd notion
        that they're powerless & have a disease which is causing bad
        behavior. Not to mention the destructive idea that after 20yrs of
        sobriety, if a person drinks, the 20yrs didn't count & they're back to
        square one.

        Add to this the rather problematic paticipation of Orthodox Christians
        in a non-Orthodox cult.
        (Witness: they have a creed that is hardly ours. They have a "liturgy"
        in the way meetings are conducted including prayer with people
        believing God knows what. They even have a kind of confession that is
        engaged in.)

        No doubt kind-hearted freemasons have at times helped Orthodox
        Christians, but we don't become freemasons despite their protestations
        that our Orthodox affiliation will be acceptable to them. Our faith is
        not on the same footing with protestants &/or tree worshipers for that
        matter.

        Drunkeness & drugs are not new in the world. The Holy Church has some
        2,000 years of experience with it & with the disease of sin. (Not to
        be confused with the 12 step disease model which is unscientific.)

        For a better alternative for your referrals, I'd recommend looking at
        SMART. See: <http://www.smartrecovery.org>

        Ultimately, the person has to decide to stop. That's the bottom
        line. Untill & unless that happens, they won't, even though they might
        accept the idea they ought to. When they do, then they can indeed
        stop.
        - --
        Afanassy Thompson President: Cincinnati GNU/Linux Users Group
        Email: afanassy@... http://www.cglug.org
        =============================================================================
        PGP & GPG Public Keys at http://www.geckonet.net
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      • fraese
        My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago. This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater s Anonymous, and
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 31, 2000
          My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago.  This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater's Anonymous, and a lot in between. It was actually one of the things that brought us to the ROCA - because we saw that there was absolutely no hope for change through the '12 Steps', and the modern Orthodox (at least here in Alberta) are all pushing 12-Step meetings in their churches. Instead of teaching the Orthodox way of life, the teachings of the fathers, the church, the sacraments, for overcoming the hold that passions have on us, they teach modern mishmash.
          Theodora
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: emrys`nz
          Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 1:56 PM
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

          Nikolaj,
           
          Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned.  I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the one lost sheep?
           
          Fr Ambrose
          ===============================
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Nikolaj
           
          AA does not work! AA suggests a fake god of your own imagination.
          9 out of 10 who attend their first meeting never return.
          out those who stay, only a very very little percentage gain recovery.
           
          Alcoholism is a demon . neither new - nor incurable.
          It is in the Scriptures how to drive out these demons.
           
          Nikolaj
           
           

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        • fraese
          My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago. This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater s Anonymous, and
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 31, 2000
            My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago.  This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater's Anonymous, and a lot in between. It was actually one of the things that brought us to the ROCA - because we saw that there was absolutely no hope for change through the '12 Steps', and the modern Orthodox (at least here in Alberta) are all pushing 12-Step meetings in their churches. Instead of teaching the Orthodox way of life, the teachings of the fathers, the church, the sacraments, for overcoming the hold that passions have on us, they teach modern mishmash.
            Theodora
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: emrys`nz
            Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 1:56 PM
            Subject: [orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

            Nikolaj,
             
            Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned.  I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the one lost sheep?
             
            Fr Ambrose
            ===============================
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Nikolaj
             
            AA does not work! AA suggests a fake god of your own imagination.
            9 out of 10 who attend their first meeting never return.
            out those who stay, only a very very little percentage gain recovery.
             
            Alcoholism is a demon . neither new - nor incurable.
            It is in the Scriptures how to drive out these demons.
             
            Nikolaj
             
             

            This mailing list's archives are at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod

            eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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