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RE: [orthodox-synod] Re: On Unity of the Orthodox Church of Chris t

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  • Elias G Gorsky
    Moliebens and any prayer for the living (except commemoration at proskomedia or any sacrament) can be said for any non-orthodox. Panikhida s can only be served
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 16, 2007
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      Moliebens and any prayer for the living (except commemoration at proskomedia
      or any sacrament) can be said for any non-orthodox.

      Panikhida's can only be served for any Orthodox (and the more sinful they
      are, the more they are in need of panikhidas), except those who died while
      excommunicated (the only one who comes to mind, who I know was officially
      excommunicated, is Lev Tolstoy). I presume Lenin and Stalin were
      excommunicated at one time or another, but I have no direct documentation at
      hand.

      With God,
      ap. Ilya Gorsky

      -----Original Message-----
      From: blinachka [mailto:blinachka@...]
      Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 12:33 PM
      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: On Unity of the Orthodox Church of Christ

      Michael N. wrote:

      "The Church cannot pray for those outside the Church."


      If this is the case then how is it that the Church (ROCOR within the
      USA) prays for the armed forces of the USA and the President (and
      leaders) of the USA at each Liturgy? Last I checked they were not a
      part of the Church.

      Praying for others whether they are a part of the Orthodox Church or
      not is simply the right thing to do. ("Even at the eleventh hour..." )

      Respectfully,

      Nina Ledkovsky


      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Dear Elizabeth,
      >
      > Go ahead for and celebrate the deaths of butchers Lenin/Stalin an
      all their comapny, including the coward and usurper of Church
      authority sergius..
      >
      > S Bogom!
      >
      > unworthy as I am , protod.. from Canberra
      >
      > michael nikitin <nikitinmike@...> wrote: ROCOR Never celebrated a
      Pannikhida for Metr. Sergius.
      > Could Elizabeth please explain why ROCOR can serve Pannikhida's
      > for him now?
      >
      > The Church cannot pray for those outside the Church.
      > Lenin and Stalin may be next in line for a Pannikhida.
      > What excuse will Elizabeth give then?
      >
      > What excuse will be given when Metr. Sergius is glorified a
      > Saint?
      >
      > This is sad.
      >
      > Michael N
      >
      >
      > --- boulia_1 wrote:
      >
      > > I am not sure I understand Mary's comment, or how it is helpful
      > > to the discussion.
      > >
      > > I might define "Sergianism" as a glossing over of the Soviet
      > > government's anti-religious stance. What Father John wrote
      > > below is
      > > entirely consistent with this. To be sure, it's nothing
      > > positive.
      > >
      > > But even the much-vilified Met. Sergius deserves a pannykhida.
      > > Indeed, the truly Christian thing, if you believe his actions
      > > were
      > > evil, is to offer as many prayers as you can muster for the
      > > salvation of his soul.
      > >
      > > --Elizabeth
      > >
      > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Marczyk"
      > >
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Fr John,
      > > >
      > > > After reading this post and response I realise ( again)
      > > your
      > > twist/spin has no limits. I am sure I am not the only one to
      > > see
      > > this.
      > > >
      > > > Mary
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Fr. John R. Shaw
      > > > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 5:42 AM
      > > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: On Unity of the Orthodox
      > > Church of
      > > Christ
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Melissa Bushunow
      > >
      > > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > This is from one of the official Patriarchal sites.
      > > > >
      > > > > Melissa
      > > > >
      > > > > http://eng.sedmitza.ru/index.html?
      > > > > sid=64&did=1188&p_comment=&call_action=print1(default)
      > > > >
      > > > > http://tinyurl.com/29rxsg
      > > >
      > > > JRS: "Sergianism" has always been understood by ROCOR, not
      > > as "paying respects to the
      > > > memory of the late Patriarch Sergius", but as a denial that
      > > there
      > > was a Soviet persecution
      > > > of the Church: denial that there were New Martyrs of the
      > > Soviet
      > > yoke.
      > > >
      > > > Some antireligious activists claim that having the words
      > > "In God
      > > We Trust" on US money
      > > > constitutes an "establishment of religion". But
      > > "establishment of
      > > religion" doesn't mean
      > > > "establishment of the principle or idea of God": it means
      > > establishing one, specific, State
      > > > Church.
      > > >
      > > > Celebrating a Pannikhida for Patriarch Sergius, or naming
      > > something after him, does not
      > > > constitute "Sergianism".
      > > >
      > > > In Christ
      > > > Fr. John R. Shaw
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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