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Re: [orthodox-synod] What happened to pomog.org?

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  • Igumeniya Iulianiya
    When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth, they will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest! Anonymous (matushka) Ann Lardas
    Message 1 of 34 , Jun 7, 2007
      When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth, they will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest! Anonymous

      "(matushka) Ann Lardas" <matanna@...> wrote: I went to read today's Gospel and found that the site is down.

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    • (matushka) Ann Lardas
      ... Matushka Ann does not trust your web site. Met. Philaret neither blessed it nor approved the release of these documents in his life. ... In this, you
      Message 34 of 34 , Jun 15, 2007
        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
        <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
        > Holy Metr. Philaret would never call the historic Russian
        > Orthodox Church a pseudo-church. But in church, from amvon, he
        > did
        > state in his sermons for all to hear that the MP is a
        > pseudo-church . If that is not sharing publicly, I don't know
        > what is.
        > http://metphilaret.homestead.com/philaret.html
        > Doesn't Matushka Ann believe Holy Metr. Philaret?

        Matushka Ann does not trust your web site.
        Met. Philaret neither blessed it nor approved the release of these
        documents in his life.

        > Fr.Alexander Lebedeff identified the priest who this letter was
        > written to as being Fr.Victor Potapov. Mat.Ann can ask Fr.
        > Alexander herself.
        > Does Mat.Ann not see the schisms caused by Metr. Laurus not
        > waiting for the MP to leave WCC - ecumenism and not repenting of
        > Sergianism?

        In this, you slander a good and decent man.

        Metropolitan Laurus not only has never started a schism, but he has
        bent over backwards to try to prevent schism. If he has been betrayed
        by some of his oldest and dearest clergy, well, *all* of our Lord's
        disciples save one abandoned him at one point. God forgave and
        strengthened them, all who repented, and the one who repented most
        deeply he rewarded most generously, so let us be faithful and patient
        and prayerful and hope that those who have been confused and misled
        by the siren voices luring them off the Ark of Salvation will swim
        back and be restored.

        The MP repented of ecumenism and sergianism.

        If those from the home town of Pat. Sergius wish to commemorate him,
        and have not been prevented, this is not the same thing as a
        glorification held in Moscow. The fact that the only information that
        could be found is two years old and was discovered by those who have
        left ROCOR indicates to me that his glorification is unlikely.
        Consider the difference between this and the consecration of the
        church in Butovo, which was on the news and about which books and
        articles have been written. It is a small local event, and old news,
        and not something which governs or informs the judgement of the
        hierarchy or the clergy.

        However, should the idea of a glorification be brought up, NOW we
        have a voice on the council, and a dear voice it is, the voice of our
        Metropolitan Laurus, who can explain (in better Russian than mine
        and, perhaps, yours, as he's been there more recently) why it would
        be a bad idea, and what the implications and ramifications of such an
        act would be.

        This will keep many souls from error, not just those in ROCOR and her
        friends, but all of the MP. And we have to love the souls of the
        people in the MP, Michael, and desire their salvation as we desire
        our own, rather than gloat over each mistake they make as if this
        somehow makes us, if only by comparison, more holy. It doesn't, any
        more than a person standing in a sweaty shirt is any cleaner for
        having someone in a stained shirt stand next to him.

        >In Russia the people from US were happy while in the
        > States people cried. What was the reason for bishops not wait and
        > avoid these schisms? Where is the Love?

        Not everyone in the States cried. And those who did, did they
        previously sit face to face with their bishops and ask them their
        most pressing questions?

        > Holy Metr. Philaret would never join the MP if it didn't leave
        > WCC - ecumenism and repent of complicity with the Soviet regime.

        You act like it's still 1970. The MP has changed.

        The MP changed its participation in the WCC, is active in preventing
        ecumenism (big battle to keep the Pope from visiting) and has
        repented far better of its complicity with the soviet regime than
        others have of not supporting the Tsar better so it couldn't have
        taken over. Early ROCOR documents focused not on the need of the
        people in Russia being persecuted to repent only, but also of
        everyone who allowed the gradual secularization of the Orthodox State
        and scorn for its anointed ruler lead to such ill-intentioned people
        having control over what was so strong and beautiful and Orthodox a

        > He would Never cause a schism.

        Metropolitan Laurus also never caused one.

        >> It is "Hold fast to what you have".

        Again, if it were, you would all be holding fast to the same person.

        Everyone who's left agrees that ROCOR and our beloved Metropolitan is
        somehow wrong, but none of you agree on who, specifically, is right.

        Does not the Holy Spirit draw Christians together?

        I maintain that if those of us still in ROCOR were wrong, and those
        so judgmental and scornful of a country they've not visited, their
        previous bishops whom they haven't consulted, or the MP clergy with
        whom they have judged based on what they've read rather than on
        conversation with the MP about whether or not the things they've read
        are still valid and true, then you wouldn't have people scattered

        - Fili
        - GOC
        - Tikhon of Omsk
        - Mansonville
        - Mansonville -- candleworks podvorie(self-styled "Metropolitan
        - HOCNA
        - Vladyka Agafangel, leaving their own bishops first and only later
        asking his blessing
        - ROAC, Russian contingent
        - ROAC, New Jersey based
        - ROAC, Colorado based

        This doesn't count those who simply stopped going to church
        altogether, and instead stay home and read the paper and watch the
        talking heads and lament that the rest of the Orthodox are so very,
        very lapsed.

        Saint Seraphim, in his conversation with Nicholas Motovilov, recorded
        in book form, said that if all men draw water from the same source,
        but some have pure water, and some have cloudy, and some have
        polluted, then it isn't the source that's the problem, but rather the
        vessels with which they drew the water.

        Metropolitan Philaret is a pure source.

        But eleven splinter groups who claim to revere him, some even as a
        saint (and yet someone violated one of the Ten Commandments to steal
        articles of his from his grave at Jordanville) cannot agree with each
        other about who, in this sorry world, is still Orthodox besides
        himself and his current hierarch. This is madness.

        Met. Laurus is our rightful first hierarch, and he did what he deemed
        best, consulting his Synod and the Sobor in prayer. It's one thing
        not to like his decision, not to feel ready for it, to wish he had
        chosen to do this more slowly. But it is altogether another thing to
        blame him for the poor decisions made by others.

        Have you or any of the others on this list urging us to jump, without
        having looked beneath to the landing field yourselves, considered the
        grave harm that you do to your own souls and to those of your readers
        when you undercut their faith in the first hierarch without having
        anything else substantial to offer, only your own aggravation and

        Surely this is akin to the nihilism which led to the fall of Russia.

        Surely this is a deeper sin than Sergianism, for Pat. Sergius only
        went along with the power that already existed.

        Those who betrayed the Tsar and the Church and undercut the people's
        love and faith in their hierarchs and leaders created the power
        vacuum which the evil forces then manipulated to their own advantage.

        The communists seized an advantage which existed only because on some
        level betrayal had already taken place.

        The people who betrayed the Tsar thought that they would be the ones
        to hold power in a reformed Russia. They were wrong. And I fear that
        those who picture themselves as movers and shakers in their
        jurisdictions of choice will also be sadly mistaken.

        Metropolitan Philaret would never approve of those who judge and
        belittle those whom God has appointed and the Church has anointed to
        lead them.

        This, I believe.

        In Christ,
        Matushka Ann Lardas
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