Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

Expand Messages
  • Alexandre de Bonnefoi
    One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II. Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.

      Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

      One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.

      And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.

      Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm

      ADB


      ---------------------------------
      Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • morechoff@aol.com
      New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.

        Michael Orechoff


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...>
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA






        One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.

        Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

        One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.

        And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.

        Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm

        ADB


        ---------------------------------
        Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        ________________________________________________________________________
        AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Fr. Basil Grisel
        The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn t dead more than five years ago.It has not been a Franciscan
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's say almost 20 years.

          This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy, and we should be more involved with them.

          Fr. Basil
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: morechoff@...<mailto:morechoff@...>
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:51 PM
          Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA


          New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.

          Michael Orechoff

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...<mailto:de_bonnefoi@...>>
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

          One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.

          Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

          One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.

          And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.

          Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm<http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm>

          ADB

          ---------------------------------
          Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          __________________________________________________________
          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • morechoff@aol.com
          I agree that the OCA is too liberal. I learned not too long ago that most of the Bishops eat meat which surprised me. I am used to Bishops being monks and not
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            I agree that the OCA is too liberal. I learned not too long ago that most of the Bishops eat meat which surprised me.

            I am used to Bishops being monks and not eating meat at all.

            But I am sure there are many OCA priests too that are not liberal and object to what goes on in the OCA.

            The OCA is going thru some tough times now with their leadership. We can only hope that things will change and will change in the true Orthodox direction....

            Mike Orechoff


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Fr. Basil Grisel <batushka@...>
            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 4:05 pm
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA






            The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's say almost 20 years.

            This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy, and we should be more involved with them.

            Fr. Basil
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: morechoff@...<mailto:morechoff@...>
            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:51 PM
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

            New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.

            Michael Orechoff

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...<mailto:de_bonnefoi@...>>
            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
            Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

            One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.

            Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

            One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.

            And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.

            Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm<http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm>

            ADB

            ---------------------------------
            Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            __________________________________________________________
            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            ________________________________________________________________________
            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Alexandre de Bonnefoi
            So, is it the same in Romania with the frescos of Gorbachev, Bush Senior and John-Paul II? A de Bonnefoi morechoff@aol.com a écrit : New Skete Monastery in
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              So, is it the same in Romania with the frescos of Gorbachev, Bush Senior and John-Paul II?

              A de Bonnefoi

              morechoff@... a écrit :
              New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.

              Michael Orechoff

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...>
              To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
              Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

              One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.

              Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

              One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.

              And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.

              Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm

              ADB

              ---------------------------------
              Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              __________________________________________________________
              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              ---------------------------------
              Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Alexandre de Bonnefoi
              You wrote : We can only hope that things will change and will change in the true Orthodox direction... . Indeed, and we also hope a same change for the RC
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                You wrote : "We can only hope that things will change and will change in the true Orthodox direction... ."

                Indeed, and we also hope a same change for the RC and all the Protestants...

                A de bonnefoi


                morechoff@... a écrit :
                I agree that the OCA is too liberal. I learned not too long ago that most of the Bishops eat meat which surprised me.

                I am used to Bishops being monks and not eating meat at all.

                But I am sure there are many OCA priests too that are not liberal and object to what goes on in the OCA.

                The OCA is going thru some tough times now with their leadership. We can only hope that things will change and will change in the true Orthodox direction....

                Mike Orechoff

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Fr. Basil Grisel <batushka@...>
                To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 4:05 pm
                Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

                The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's say almost 20 years.

                This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy, and we should be more involved with them.

                Fr. Basil
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: morechoff@...<mailto:morechoff@...>
                To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:51 PM
                Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

                New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.

                Michael Orechoff

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...<mailto:de_bonnefoi@...>>
                To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
                Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA

                One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.

                Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

                One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.

                And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.

                Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm<http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm>

                ADB

                ---------------------------------
                Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                __________________________________________________________
                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                __________________________________________________________
                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                ---------------------------------
                Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • George
                Is there some aweful thing Theresa of Calcutta did that I m not aware of? George
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Is there some aweful thing Theresa of Calcutta did that I'm not aware of?

                  George

                  On Tuesday, June 05, 2007, at 08:14PM, "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@...> wrote:
                  >The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's say almost 20 years.
                  >
                  >This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy, and we should be more involved with them.
                  >
                  >Fr. Basil
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: morechoff@...<mailto:morechoff@...>
                  > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:51 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA
                  >
                  >
                  > New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.
                  >
                  > Michael Orechoff
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...<mailto:de_bonnefoi@...>>
                  > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
                  > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA
                  >
                  > One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.
                  >
                  > Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
                  >
                  > One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.
                  >
                  > And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.
                  >
                  > Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm<http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm>
                  >
                  > ADB
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________________
                  > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Fr. Basil Grisel
                  I do not know anything specific about Theresa of Calcutta, only that she doesn t belong depicted ikonographically in an Orthodox Church. I was just trying to
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I do not know anything specific about Theresa of Calcutta, only that she doesn't belong depicted ikonographically in an Orthodox Church. I was just trying to set a time frame for the age of the artwork in contrast to the "orthodox" history of the monastery - to explain a bit "the frescos they have".

                    Fr. Basil

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: George<mailto:kharaku@...>
                    To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:42 AM
                    Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA


                    Is there some aweful thing Theresa of Calcutta did that I'm not aware of?

                    George

                    On Tuesday, June 05, 2007, at 08:14PM, "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@...<mailto:batushka@...>> wrote:
                    >The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's say almost 20 years.
                    >
                    >This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy, and we should be more involved with them.
                    >
                    >Fr. Basil
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: morechoff@...<mailto:morechoff@...><mailto:morechoff@...<mailto:morechoff@...>>
                    > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com><mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>>
                    > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:51 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA
                    >
                    >
                    > New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.
                    >
                    > Michael Orechoff
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...<mailto:de_bonnefoi@...><mailto:de_bonnefoi@...<mailto:de_bonnefoi@...>>>
                    > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com><mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>>
                    > Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
                    > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA
                    >
                    > One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.
                    >
                    > Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
                    >
                    > One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.
                    >
                    > And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.
                    >
                    > Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm<http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm><http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm<http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm>>
                    >
                    > ADB
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________________
                    > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • antiquariu@aol.com
                    In a message dated 6/5/2007 8:15:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, batushka@msn.com writes: The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In a message dated 6/5/2007 8:15:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      batushka@... writes:

                      The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that.
                      Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five years ago.It has not been a
                      Franciscan monastery for oh, let's say almost 20 years.

                      This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed in the
                      OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy, and we should be more
                      involved with them.

                      Fr. Basil




                      Dear in-Christ Father Basil, Bless!

                      Whereas I agree with your point, why pick on the OCA? There are those who
                      think "normal Orthodoxy" is defined by miraculous icon fraud and pederast
                      priests as well, and before ROCOR seeks out the specks in the OCA's eye, it
                      should perhaps get rid of the logs in its own. It's a Russian thing to use words
                      like "parasynagogue." Makes it sound intellectual and theologically correct,
                      sort of like the Russian/Soviet propensity to create new heresies by adding
                      "ism." New Skete is considered an embarrassment to many in the OCA, but
                      then again, Blanco -- which was highly and vocally supported by many in ROCOR at
                      the time -- was a lot more embarrassing than weird icons and New Age
                      priests. And we won't even talk about the slew of other lesser miraculous icons
                      which also preyed on the faithful. Let New Skete draw its own brickbats, and
                      once we're perfect, we can take up this issue again. For right now, we have
                      enough bizarre behavior to fill the books ourselves. We could, for example,
                      police protodeacons who publicly lambast their own priests and hiearchs and
                      cashier priests who flog weeping cardboard icons while having had the grace of
                      the Holy Spirit bless them multiple times with different weeping icons. We
                      could cut down on this "false flag" propensity that gives rise to clever use
                      of pen-names ranging from Russian obscenities ("Peace Duke") to Moliere ("de
                      Bonnefoi") to just plain made-up nonsense ("Mike Nikitin")characters, without
                      giving any idea just why they have axes to grind. We could even remove the
                      shadow of doubt by eliminating "paramonasticism," to use a neo-Soviet word,
                      and cut through the nonsense: you either are an Orthodox monk, or you're not.
                      Nuff said. I think we should be more involved with the OCA, and for that
                      matter, the rest of Orthodoxy as well. And just consider yourself and your
                      parish extremely lucky that you don't have any charlatans and shysters in it,
                      as some parishes did.

                      Father Basil, you and I met about a decade ago at John the Baptist in DC
                      when you were there for some clergy otgovenie; I recall liking the way your mind
                      worked. You were still in the process of finding a home, as I recall, and I
                      purchased a lovely Gospel (Sofrino) in binding that I presented to an OCA
                      priest (Father George Johnson) from Conemaugh, PA. Father George is but one of
                      many OCA priests I know who would be at home in either jurisdiction. He's
                      hardly innovative, but he's a great priest.

                      I still hope and pray -- as do you -- for the unity of God's Church, and one
                      of these days, God willing, we'll achieve it.

                      In Christ,

                      Vova H.



                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • michael nikitin
                      Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California, Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to concelebrate with the OCA. If the bishop
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                        Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                        concelebrate with the OCA. If the bishop comes to your Church and
                        brings clergy from the OCA, Fr. Basil will have no choice but to
                        serve with clergy from OCA or leave. You are done, Fr. Basil.

                        Fr. Valery Luckianov also has to commemorate Patr. Alexey II if
                        Metr. Laurus serves in his parish. But what's the difference
                        whether one commemorates the Patr. or commemorates Metr. Laurus?
                        They are both one now. Fr. Valery does not want to loose the
                        church which he built with beautiful ikonostas and icons.

                        Michael N

                        --- "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@...> wrote:

                        > The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please
                        > explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five
                        > years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's
                        > say almost 20 years.
                        >
                        > This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed
                        > in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy,
                        > and we should be more involved with them.
                        >
                        > Fr. Basil




                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                        that gives answers, not web links.
                        http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                        Is it not true that one finds wall paintings (ON MOUNT ATHOS!) of ancient philosophers such as Socrates and Plato (out right Pagans!) at some monasteries,
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Is it not true that "one finds wall paintings (ON MOUNT ATHOS!) of
                          ancient philosophers such as Socrates and Plato (out right Pagans!)
                          at some monasteries, such as Vatopedi,..."

                          The pictures, all be it in iconographic style, have no halo/nimbus
                          thereby qualifying them as outside of the family of glorified saints
                          and "merely" ethicize that these people had >>>ASPECTS<<< of their
                          life, character or writings that is worthy of note for the Orthodox
                          Christian.

                          Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko





                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                          <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                          > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                          > concelebrate with the OCA. If the bishop comes to your Church and
                          > brings clergy from the OCA, Fr. Basil will have no choice but to
                          > serve with clergy from OCA or leave. You are done, Fr. Basil.
                          >
                          > Fr. Valery Luckianov also has to commemorate Patr. Alexey II if
                          > Metr. Laurus serves in his parish. But what's the difference
                          > whether one commemorates the Patr. or commemorates Metr. Laurus?
                          > They are both one now. Fr. Valery does not want to loose the
                          > church which he built with beautiful ikonostas and icons.
                          >
                          > Michael N
                          >
                          > --- "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please
                          > > explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five
                          > > years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's
                          > > say almost 20 years.
                          > >
                          > > This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed
                          > > in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy,
                          > > and we should be more involved with them.
                          > >
                          > > Fr. Basil
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          ______________________________________________________________________
                          ______________
                          > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                          > that gives answers, not web links.
                          > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                          >
                        • Archpriest David Moser
                          ... This is a lie - either that or no other priest I know has seen this ukase. Abp Kyrill has given blessing for certain individual concelebrations in certain
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                            <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                            > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                            > concelebrate with the OCA.

                            This is a lie - either that or no other priest I know has seen this
                            ukase. Abp Kyrill has given blessing for certain individual
                            concelebrations in certain limited circumstances - but no such
                            "blanket Ukase" applying to everyone exists.


                            ArchPr David Moser
                          • Reader Timothy Tadros
                            I have not seen a synodal ukase or where any of our bishop have come out and said you may serve with any one whom you please. I was quite surprised that while
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have not seen a synodal ukase or where any of our bishop have
                              come out and said you may serve with any one whom you please. I was
                              quite surprised that while the reconcilliation/unification of the two
                              parts of the Russian Orthodox Church took place in Russia. Others
                              here in America seemed to think or took advantage of the situation
                              and held similar services with other priests of other jurisdictions
                              on Ascension.
                              Will this apply to any jurisdiction especially those on the new
                              calendar?
                              Rdr Timothy Tadros

                              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest David Moser"
                              <moserd@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                              > <nikitinmike@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                              > > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                              > > concelebrate with the OCA.
                              >
                              > This is a lie - either that or no other priest I know has seen this
                              > ukase. Abp Kyrill has given blessing for certain individual
                              > concelebrations in certain limited circumstances - but no such
                              > "blanket Ukase" applying to everyone exists.
                              >
                              >
                              > ArchPr David Moser
                              >
                            • George
                              the only reason i ve heard against concelebrating with other orthodox Christians on feat day outside the same calendar is the fact that one should not
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 6, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                the only reason i've heard against concelebrating with other orthodox Christians on feat day outside the same calendar is the fact that one should not commemorate 2 feast days on the same feast day.

                                though I agree given the circumstances folks should be consulting with their bishops frist.

                                On Wednesday, June 06, 2007, at 10:16PM, "Reader Timothy Tadros" <pravoslavney@...> wrote:
                                > I have not seen a synodal ukase or where any of our bishop have
                                >come out and said you may serve with any one whom you please. I was
                                >quite surprised that while the reconcilliation/unification of the two
                                >parts of the Russian Orthodox Church took place in Russia. Others
                                >here in America seemed to think or took advantage of the situation
                                >and held similar services with other priests of other jurisdictions
                                >on Ascension.
                                > Will this apply to any jurisdiction especially those on the new
                                >calendar?
                                >Rdr Timothy Tadros
                                >
                                >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest David Moser"
                                ><moserd@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                >> <nikitinmike@> wrote:
                                >> >
                                >> > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                                >> > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                                >> > concelebrate with the OCA.
                                >>
                                >> This is a lie - either that or no other priest I know has seen this
                                >> ukase. Abp Kyrill has given blessing for certain individual
                                >> concelebrations in certain limited circumstances - but no such
                                >> "blanket Ukase" applying to everyone exists.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ArchPr David Moser
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Alexandre de Bonnefoi
                                Dear George, There is something that you are not aware. Like Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Mahomed, Mandela, Golda Meïr, Mussolini, Bush, she was not orthodox.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 7, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear George,

                                  There is something that you are not aware. Like Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Mahomed, Mandela, Golda Meïr, Mussolini, Bush, she was not orthodox. So there is not any reason to see her on the frescos (icons) of an orthodox church.

                                  How can you not be aware of that by yourself?


                                  A de Bonnefoi

                                  George <kharaku@...> a écrit :
                                  Is there some aweful thing Theresa of Calcutta did that I'm not aware of?

                                  George

                                  On Tuesday, June 05, 2007, at 08:14PM, "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@...> wrote:
                                  >The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than five years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh, let's say almost 20 years.
                                  >
                                  >This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are allowed in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal Orthodoxy, and we should be more involved with them.
                                  >
                                  >Fr. Basil
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: morechoff@...<mailto:morechoff@...>
                                  > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:51 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > New Skete Monastery in New York was a Byzantine-Rite Franciscans monastery up until 1979 when they joined the OCA. This might explain the frescoes they have.
                                  >
                                  > Michael Orechoff
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Alexandre de Bonnefoi <de_bonnefoi@...<mailto:de_bonnefoi@...>>
                                  > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:52 am
                                  > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Innovations in the para-synagog of OCA
                                  >
                                  > One had laughed about these mural frescos in Romania depainting Gorbatchev, Bush Senior and Jean Paul II.
                                  >
                                  > Now, a skite of the OCA in the United States made the same thing : on the frescos, one can recognize : Athenagoras, the pope Paul VI and Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
                                  >
                                  > One can also admire in the column of photographs the magnificent blue clothing of the priest with mountains, an ass and a star.
                                  >
                                  > And all of that is under the eyes of Herman, big boss of the OCA. Curiously, there is not Jean-Paul II.
                                  >
                                  > Have fun: http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm<http://holytrinityorthodox.org/photos/new_skete.htm>
                                  >
                                  > ADB
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________________________
                                  > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >





                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • michael nikitin
                                  Is Fr.Stefan defending the paintings or the OCA? Michael N ... glorified saints and merely ethicize that these people had ... of note for the Orthodox
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 7, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Is Fr.Stefan defending the paintings or the OCA?

                                    Michael N


                                    --- Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...>
                                    wrote:

                                    > Is it not true that "one finds wall paintings (ON MOUNT ATHOS!)
                                    > of ancient philosophers such as Socrates and Plato (out right
                                    > Pagans!) at some monasteries, such as Vatopedi,..."
                                    >
                                    > The pictures, all be it in iconographic style, have no
                                    > halo/nimbus thereby qualifying them as outside of the family of
                                    glorified saints and "merely" ethicize that these people had
                                    >>>ASPECTS<<< of their life, character or writings that is worthy
                                    of note for the Orthodox Christian.
                                    >
                                    > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                    > <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                                    > > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                                    > > concelebrate with the OCA. If the bishop comes to your Church
                                    > and
                                    > > brings clergy from the OCA, Fr. Basil will have no choice but
                                    > to
                                    > > serve with clergy from OCA or leave. You are done, Fr. Basil.
                                    > >
                                    > > Fr. Valery Luckianov also has to commemorate Patr. Alexey II
                                    > if
                                    > > Metr. Laurus serves in his parish. But what's the difference
                                    > > whether one commemorates the Patr. or commemorates Metr.
                                    > Laurus?
                                    > > They are both one now. Fr. Valery does not want to loose the
                                    > > church which he built with beautiful ikonostas and icons.
                                    > >
                                    > > Michael N
                                    > >
                                    > > --- "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please
                                    > > > explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than
                                    > five
                                    > > > years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh,
                                    > let's
                                    > > > say almost 20 years.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are
                                    > allowed
                                    > > > in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal
                                    > Orthodoxy,
                                    > > > and we should be more involved with them.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Fr. Basil
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    ______________________________________________________________________
                                    > ______________
                                    > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                                    > > that gives answers, not web links.
                                    > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >






                                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                    Never miss an email again!
                                    Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
                                    http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
                                  • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                    Neither! I said what I said, …on Mount Athos there are iconographic images of Socrates and Plato depicted in the entry of one of the Athonite Monastery
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jun 7, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Neither! I said what I said, …on Mount Athos there are iconographic
                                      images of Socrates and Plato depicted in the entry of one of the
                                      Athonite Monastery edifices. Socrates and Plato were pagans, but
                                      their images are there in honor of their pre-supposing monotheistic
                                      Theology. Non-orthodox on the walls of Orthodox Churches, there it
                                      is! And no one is the worse off by it.
                                      Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko



                                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                      <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Is Fr.Stefan defending the paintings or the OCA?
                                      >
                                      > Michael N
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Is it not true that "one finds wall paintings (ON MOUNT ATHOS!)
                                      > > of ancient philosophers such as Socrates and Plato (out right
                                      > > Pagans!) at some monasteries, such as Vatopedi,..."
                                      > >
                                      > > The pictures, all be it in iconographic style, have no
                                      > > halo/nimbus thereby qualifying them as outside of the family of
                                      > glorified saints and "merely" ethicize that these people had
                                      > >>>ASPECTS<<< of their life, character or writings that is worthy
                                      > of note for the Orthodox Christian.
                                      > >
                                      > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                      > > <nikitinmike@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                                      > > > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                                      > > > concelebrate with the OCA. If the bishop comes to your Church
                                      > > and
                                      > > > brings clergy from the OCA, Fr. Basil will have no choice but
                                      > > to
                                      > > > serve with clergy from OCA or leave. You are done, Fr. Basil.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Fr. Valery Luckianov also has to commemorate Patr. Alexey II
                                      > > if
                                      > > > Metr. Laurus serves in his parish. But what's the difference
                                      > > > whether one commemorates the Patr. or commemorates Metr.
                                      > > Laurus?
                                      > > > They are both one now. Fr. Valery does not want to loose the
                                      > > > church which he built with beautiful ikonostas and icons.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Michael N
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please
                                      > > > > explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than
                                      > > five
                                      > > > > years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh,
                                      > > let's
                                      > > > > say almost 20 years.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are
                                      > > allowed
                                      > > > > in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal
                                      > > Orthodoxy,
                                      > > > > and we should be more involved with them.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Fr. Basil
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      ______________________________________________________________________
                                      > > ______________
                                      > > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                                      > > > that gives answers, not web links.
                                      > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ______________________________________________________________________
                                      ______________
                                      > Never miss an email again!
                                      > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
                                      > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
                                      >
                                    • Alexandre de Bonnefoi
                                      Father Stefan, Plato and Socrates had an excuse and a merit to guess God without any teaching. Teresa of Calcutta and others (Paul VI, Athenagoras etc) are
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jun 8, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Father Stefan,

                                        Plato and Socrates had an excuse and a merit to guess God without any teaching.

                                        Teresa of Calcutta and others (Paul VI, Athenagoras etc) are volontary apart from this teaching because they knew the existence of the righteous and orthodox teaching.


                                        A de Bonnefoi

                                        Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...> a écrit :
                                        Neither! I said what I said, …on Mount Athos there are iconographic
                                        images of Socrates and Plato depicted in the entry of one of the
                                        Athonite Monastery edifices. Socrates and Plato were pagans, but
                                        their images are there in honor of their pre-supposing monotheistic
                                        Theology. Non-orthodox on the walls of Orthodox Churches, there it
                                        is! And no one is the worse off by it.
                                        Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

                                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                        <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Is Fr.Stefan defending the paintings or the OCA?
                                        >
                                        > Michael N
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Is it not true that "one finds wall paintings (ON MOUNT ATHOS!)
                                        > > of ancient philosophers such as Socrates and Plato (out right
                                        > > Pagans!) at some monasteries, such as Vatopedi,..."
                                        > >
                                        > > The pictures, all be it in iconographic style, have no
                                        > > halo/nimbus thereby qualifying them as outside of the family of
                                        > glorified saints and "merely" ethicize that these people had
                                        > >>>ASPECTS<<< of their life, character or writings that is worthy
                                        > of note for the Orthodox Christian.
                                        > >
                                        > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                        > > <nikitinmike@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                                        > > > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                                        > > > concelebrate with the OCA. If the bishop comes to your Church
                                        > > and
                                        > > > brings clergy from the OCA, Fr. Basil will have no choice but
                                        > > to
                                        > > > serve with clergy from OCA or leave. You are done, Fr. Basil.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Fr. Valery Luckianov also has to commemorate Patr. Alexey II
                                        > > if
                                        > > > Metr. Laurus serves in his parish. But what's the difference
                                        > > > whether one commemorates the Patr. or commemorates Metr.
                                        > > Laurus?
                                        > > > They are both one now. Fr. Valery does not want to loose the
                                        > > > church which he built with beautiful ikonostas and icons.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Michael N
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please
                                        > > > > explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than
                                        > > five
                                        > > > > years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh,
                                        > > let's
                                        > > > > say almost 20 years.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are
                                        > > allowed
                                        > > > > in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal
                                        > > Orthodoxy,
                                        > > > > and we should be more involved with them.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Fr. Basil
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        __________________________________________________________
                                        > > ______________
                                        > > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                                        > > > that gives answers, not web links.
                                        > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        __________________________________________________________
                                        ______________
                                        > Never miss an email again!
                                        > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
                                        > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
                                        >






                                        ---------------------------------
                                        Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Carol Surgant
                                        ... any teaching. ... volontary apart from this teaching because they knew the existence of the righteous and orthodox teaching. ... Yes, and that is why in a
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 8, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre de Bonnefoi
                                          <de_bonnefoi@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Father Stefan,
                                          >
                                          > Plato and Socrates had an excuse and a merit to guess God without
                                          any teaching.
                                          >
                                          > Teresa of Calcutta and others (Paul VI, Athenagoras etc) are
                                          volontary apart from this teaching because they knew the existence of
                                          the righteous and orthodox teaching.
                                          >
                                          Yes, and that is why in a few churches in Greece, Plato and Socrates
                                          might be found depicted without a halo *in the Narthex*. They gave
                                          glimpses of the truth, and perhaps prepared the Greeks to accept
                                          Christ, but are not of the church, therefore found only in the
                                          narthex. However, it is not Orthodox tradition to depict non-saints
                                          in the nave of the church where we worship surrounded by the those
                                          whom the God has revealed to the Church as saints.

                                          in Christ,
                                          Carol Surgant
                                        • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                          Alexander, DID I NOT SAY: Socrates and Plato were pagans, but their images are there in honor of their pre-supposing monotheistic Theology
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jun 8, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Alexander, DID I NOT SAY:>>>>>Socrates and Plato were pagans, but
                                            their images are there in honor of their pre-supposing monotheistic
                                            Theology<<<<<
                                            THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID! Do you not read my post?

                                            Tell those who had the portraits put up, not me!
                                            Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko




                                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre de Bonnefoi
                                            <de_bonnefoi@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Father Stefan,
                                            >
                                            > Plato and Socrates had an excuse and a merit to guess God without
                                            any teaching.
                                            >
                                            > Teresa of Calcutta and others (Paul VI, Athenagoras etc) are
                                            volontary apart from this teaching because they knew the existence of
                                            the righteous and orthodox teaching.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > A de Bonnefoi
                                            >
                                            > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...> a écrit :
                                            > Neither! I said what I said, …on Mount Athos there are
                                            iconographic
                                            > images of Socrates and Plato depicted in the entry of one of the
                                            > Athonite Monastery edifices. Socrates and Plato were pagans, but
                                            > their images are there in honor of their pre-supposing monotheistic
                                            > Theology. Non-orthodox on the walls of Orthodox Churches, there it
                                            > is! And no one is the worse off by it.
                                            > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                            >
                                            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                            > <nikitinmike@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Is Fr.Stefan defending the paintings or the OCA?
                                            > >
                                            > > Michael N
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > Is it not true that "one finds wall paintings (ON MOUNT ATHOS!)
                                            > > > of ancient philosophers such as Socrates and Plato (out right
                                            > > > Pagans!) at some monasteries, such as Vatopedi,..."
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The pictures, all be it in iconographic style, have no
                                            > > > halo/nimbus thereby qualifying them as outside of the family of
                                            > > glorified saints and "merely" ethicize that these people had
                                            > > >>>ASPECTS<<< of their life, character or writings that is worthy
                                            > > of note for the Orthodox Christian.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                            > > > <nikitinmike@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Fr. Basil, we already are involved with OCA? In California,
                                            > > > > Vl.Kirill sent a Ukase for everyone in his Diocese to
                                            > > > > concelebrate with the OCA. If the bishop comes to your Church
                                            > > > and
                                            > > > > brings clergy from the OCA, Fr. Basil will have no choice but
                                            > > > to
                                            > > > > serve with clergy from OCA or leave. You are done, Fr. Basil.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Fr. Valery Luckianov also has to commemorate Patr. Alexey II
                                            > > > if
                                            > > > > Metr. Laurus serves in his parish. But what's the difference
                                            > > > > whether one commemorates the Patr. or commemorates Metr.
                                            > > > Laurus?
                                            > > > > They are both one now. Fr. Valery does not want to loose the
                                            > > > > church which he built with beautiful ikonostas and icons.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Michael N
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- "Fr. Basil Grisel" <batushka@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > > The frescos were completed in the last FIVE YEARS, please
                                            > > > > > explain that. Theresa of Calcutta wasn't dead more than
                                            > > > five
                                            > > > > > years ago.It has not been a Franciscan monastery for oh,
                                            > > > let's
                                            > > > > > say almost 20 years.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > This is just a sampling of the bizarre things that are
                                            > > > allowed
                                            > > > > > in the OCA.,,,,and some people think this is normal
                                            > > > Orthodoxy,
                                            > > > > > and we should be more involved with them.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Fr. Basil
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > __________________________________________________________
                                            > > > ______________
                                            > > > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                                            > > > > that gives answers, not web links.
                                            > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > __________________________________________________________
                                            > ______________
                                            > > Never miss an email again!
                                            > > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
                                            > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers
                                            Yahoo! Mail
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.