Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

Expand Messages
  • intrprtr@prodigy.net
    CONCERNING THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF THE RUSSIAN NATION BEFORE GOD AND THE FATHERLAND Russia - One, Great and Indivisible -- is not a federation, or a
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 28, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      CONCERNING THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF THE RUSSIAN NATION BEFORE GOD AND THE
      FATHERLAND

      Russia - One, Great and Indivisible -- is not a federation, or a
      confederacy, or some "all-Russian commonwealth of nations"; nor is it an
      alliance of nations, or of republics, or of independent states, etc.

      Russia was, is, and ever will be a strictly Russian state, possessed of all
      the "state sovereignty" and "state status" of the clans and peoples that
      stem therefrom.

      It is Russians alone -- and none else -- who are responsible, in full
      measure, for Russia's fate. When the Russian State is styled either a
      "Union of Socialist Republics," or a "Commonwealth of Independent States,"
      or a totally-devastated "Russian Federation," it becomes entirely clear
      what purpose is being served by such a counterfeiting of concepts.

      The goal is a singular one -- that of pushing-aside the Russians from being
      able to govern in their own land.

      From ocean to ocean, Russia has been, since of old, a Russian realm -- the
      land of our ancestors; of those who had passed this way before; an
      hereditary Russian possession.

      Great Russia, as a State, was created by Russians.

      The representatives of other nationalities were either a help or a
      hindrance to doing so -- a present example is that of Chechnya.

      When the triune Russian Nation is divided up into Ukrainian Slavs,
      Belorussian Slavs, and Russian Slavs, it becomes clearly evident just who
      is interested in such division.

      This situation is advantageous to those states which, at the present time,
      have destroyed Orthodox Serbia through the creation of an artificial
      grouping -- that of the Croat-Muslim federation. Could it be that it is
      our bitter lot to be fated to see a "Ukrainian-Uniate" or a
      "Belorussian-Lithuanian" Federation? And God forbid that we should have to
      find ourselves fighting against our brothers by blood!

      But this can be precisely the price of manipulating the idea of a "Russian
      Nation."

      Hence, it is important for us to ascertain the lawful rights of the Russian
      Nation -- acquired, as they were, throughout the millennia, at the price of
      great suffering -- from out of the thousand-some concepts which are
      leading the Russian patriotic movement down false paths, and which, as a
      result, are eroding our strength. We must become aware of these rights and
      unite our people in a single rush to defend said rights in the contemporary
      world. And we must do so at any price.

      The Russian Nation has a triune nature that is unique in the world. The
      Great Russians, the Belorussians and the Little Russians are the essence of
      this tri-unity.

      The destruction of this triad is a crime -- both against the nature of the
      Russian Nation and against the Lord God.

      Much against its will, the Russian Nation currently finds itself fragmented
      within the bounds of its historical territory; hence, it has a duty to
      unite within the borders of its erstwhile state.

      Following upon 1917, the totalitarian regimes that ruled it deprived the
      Russian Nation of a national forum for voicing the popular expression of
      its will. Referendum is not a national form of expressing the sovereign
      will of a people, being, at best, an ersatz or sorry counterfeit of a
      realm's general will.

      Hence, the Russian Nation is obliged to make use of its genuinely-national,
      historic instrument for voicing the nation's popular will and establishing
      a State -- a _Vserossiiskii Zemskii sobor_ [an All-Russian Land Council],
      as the Supreme Council of the entire Russian Land.

      The Russian Nation is obliged to re-establish its historic form of
      government, which was rent asunder in 1917 by gangs of international
      terrorists. No one can do away with the lawful form of governance in
      Russia -- that of Orthodox Monarchy -- for there was no decision made to
      that effect by the supreme historic organ for voicing the common will of
      the Nation -- a _Vserossiiskii Zemskii sobor_.

      The _Zemskii sobor_ of the Neva [River]
      St. Petersburg
      8 - 9 November 1988

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Translated into English by G. Spruksts, from the Russian text of the same
      name (_"O pravakh i obyazannostyakh russkogo naroda pered Bogom i
      Otechestvom"_) appearing in _"Russkii vestnik"_ ["The Russian Herald"], No.
      43, 1998 (Special Edition). English-language translation copyright (c) 1999
      by Russian-American Information Services, by the Russian Cultural Heritage
      Society, and by the Translator. All rights reserved.
    • Joseph Digrande
      The Ukrainian people have decided that they belong to a unique nation state- one much older than the Russian state. This state was oppressed (in the eyes of
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 29, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        The Ukrainian people have decided that they belong to
        a unique nation state- one much older than the Russian
        state. This state was oppressed (in the eyes of the
        Ukranians) on the military, political and cultural
        fronts for centuries. The Ukranians have fought
        against that (and not just the Western Ukraine).
        This new state is also armed with nuclear missiles and
        wants to be left alone. The best any Orthodox people
        can hope for is the type of relationship that exists
        between Great Britain and Canada (minus Quebec)
        Also- from the Orthodox perspective- it is much better
        to be decentralized according to nation and language.
        The Ukranians believe themselves to be culturally
        separate from the Russians. Both countries are huge in
        terms of Europe. Russia has its hands full with
        itself: the atheism of the last 80 years, skyrocketing
        abortion and alcohol rates, rampant crime and the
        environmental castastrophe--- and lastly its economic
        health. The Church has its hands full in this
        situation- and since the episcopate is still dealing
        with the legacy of Met. Sergius and Nikodim- they are
        ill prepared to deal with another nation and culture.
        Time to take the beam out of one's own eye and let the
        Ukraine deal with itself. Time to leave the Muslims
        alone and take the beam out of one's own eyes.
        Whenever Russia has taken the road of the "Third
        Rome", blind belief in the monarchy or blind belief in
        the West it has been full of tragic consequences: the
        monarchy of Ivan the Terrible, Peter I, the slaughter
        of the Judaizers and the Old Rite, Katherine, the
        import of the Jesuits, the use of torture as a moral
        and political tool, the profit from and use of vodka
        as a form of control. Even the blind adherence to
        democracy is false. Perhaps Russia needs the monarchy
        but not the monarchy of the last 600 years. Absolute
        power demands absolute accountalibity- and very few of
        the monarchs of the last 600 years even came close to
        that.
        It would be much to Russia's benefit to listen to the
        voices of the past who opposed its monarchs- St.
        Phillip, St. Maxim the Greek, Avakuum, St. Elizabeth
        then to its monarchs themselves. In the main their
        Orthodox sense did not even extend to the bare
        minimum: marrying someone within the Church rather
        than looking for political marriages outside the
        Church.
        Currently the Moscow Patriarchate is selling
        cigarettes and vodka for profit- just like the Czars
        and Russia's mortality rate is the lowest is Europe--
        where is the absolute accountalibity? And does anyone
        blame large chunks of the former Empire from saying
        goodby?
        Joseph Digrande
        --- intrprtr@... wrote:
        >
        > CONCERNING THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF THE RUSSIAN
        > NATION BEFORE GOD AND THE
        > FATHERLAND
        >
        > Russia - One, Great and Indivisible -- is not a
        > federation, or a
        > confederacy, or some "all-Russian commonwealth of
        > nations"; nor is it an
        > alliance of nations, or of republics, or of
        > independent states, etc.
        >
        > Russia was, is, and ever will be a strictly Russian
        > state, possessed of all
        > the "state sovereignty" and "state status" of the
        > clans and peoples that
        > stem therefrom.
        >
        > It is Russians alone -- and none else -- who are
        > responsible, in full
        > measure, for Russia's fate. When the Russian State
        > is styled either a
        > "Union of Socialist Republics," or a "Commonwealth
        > of Independent States,"
        > or a totally-devastated "Russian Federation," it
        > becomes entirely clear
        > what purpose is being served by such a
        > counterfeiting of concepts.
        >
        > The goal is a singular one -- that of pushing-aside
        > the Russians from being
        > able to govern in their own land.
        >
        > From ocean to ocean, Russia has been, since of old,
        > a Russian realm -- the
        > land of our ancestors; of those who had passed this
        > way before; an
        > hereditary Russian possession.
        >
        > Great Russia, as a State, was created by Russians.
        >
        > The representatives of other nationalities were
        > either a help or a
        > hindrance to doing so -- a present example is that
        > of Chechnya.
        >
        > When the triune Russian Nation is divided up into
        > Ukrainian Slavs,
        > Belorussian Slavs, and Russian Slavs, it becomes
        > clearly evident just who
        > is interested in such division.
        >
        > This situation is advantageous to those states
        > which, at the present time,
        > have destroyed Orthodox Serbia through the creation
        > of an artificial
        > grouping -- that of the Croat-Muslim federation.
        > Could it be that it is
        > our bitter lot to be fated to see a
        > "Ukrainian-Uniate" or a
        > "Belorussian-Lithuanian" Federation? And God forbid
        > that we should have to
        > find ourselves fighting against our brothers by
        > blood!
        >
        > But this can be precisely the price of manipulating
        > the idea of a "Russian
        > Nation."
        >
        > Hence, it is important for us to ascertain the
        > lawful rights of the Russian
        > Nation -- acquired, as they were, throughout the
        > millennia, at the price of
        > great suffering -- from out of the thousand-some
        > concepts which are
        > leading the Russian patriotic movement down false
        > paths, and which, as a
        > result, are eroding our strength. We must become
        > aware of these rights and
        > unite our people in a single rush to defend said
        > rights in the contemporary
        > world. And we must do so at any price.
        >
        > The Russian Nation has a triune nature that is
        > unique in the world. The
        > Great Russians, the Belorussians and the Little
        > Russians are the essence of
        > this tri-unity.
        >
        > The destruction of this triad is a crime -- both
        > against the nature of the
        > Russian Nation and against the Lord God.
        >
        > Much against its will, the Russian Nation currently
        > finds itself fragmented
        > within the bounds of its historical territory;
        > hence, it has a duty to
        > unite within the borders of its erstwhile state.
        >
        > Following upon 1917, the totalitarian regimes that
        > ruled it deprived the
        > Russian Nation of a national forum for voicing the
        > popular expression of
        > its will. Referendum is not a national form of
        > expressing the sovereign
        > will of a people, being, at best, an ersatz or sorry
        > counterfeit of a
        > realm's general will.
        >
        > Hence, the Russian Nation is obliged to make use of
        > its genuinely-national,
        > historic instrument for voicing the nation's popular
        > will and establishing
        > a State -- a _Vserossiiskii Zemskii sobor_ [an
        > All-Russian Land Council],
        > as the Supreme Council of the entire Russian Land.
        >
        > The Russian Nation is obliged to re-establish its
        > historic form of
        > government, which was rent asunder in 1917 by gangs
        > of international
        > terrorists. No one can do away with the lawful form
        > of governance in
        > Russia -- that of Orthodox Monarchy -- for there was
        > no decision made to
        > that effect by the supreme historic organ for
        > voicing the common will of
        > the Nation -- a _Vserossiiskii Zemskii sobor_.
        >
        > The _Zemskii sobor_ of the Neva [River]
        > St. Petersburg
        > 8 - 9 November 1988
        >
        >
        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        >
        > Translated into English by G. Spruksts, from the
        > Russian text of the same
        > name (_"O pravakh i obyazannostyakh russkogo naroda
        > pered Bogom i
        > Otechestvom"_) appearing in _"Russkii vestnik"_
        > ["The Russian Herald"], No.
        > 43, 1998 (Special Edition). English-language
        > translation copyright (c) 1999
        > by Russian-American Information Services, by the
        > Russian Cultural Heritage
        > Society, and by the Translator. All rights reserved.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > This mailing list's archives are at
        > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        >
        >
        >
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > You have a voice mail message waiting for you at
        > iHello.com:
        >
        http://click.egroups.com/1/2377/5/_/4386/_/954291883/
        >
        > -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
        > --
        >
        http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=orthodox-synod&m=1
        >
        >

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
        http://im.yahoo.com
      • LJames6034@aol.com
        One of you will doubtless remember the author who did this. Off the top of my head, I cannot. But, there was a famous Russian writer who took two glasses,
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 29, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          One of you will doubtless remember the author who did this. Off the top of
          my head, I cannot. But, there was a famous Russian writer who took two
          glasses, one filled with wine, the other filled with water, and then began to
          divide by half. Half water; half wine.

          The wine was symbolic of Russian ancestry. The water was symbolic of German
          ancestry.

          The writer went back several generations before the, then, Tsar. He mixed
          half water with half wine, half water with half wine, etc., until, at length,
          by the time he got to the Tsar then ruling, the glass was nearly colorless
          water.

          The Russian Royal Family used to communicate, in writing, with each other, in
          English. After all, most of them were the great grandchildren of Queen
          Victoria and her German prince.

          Prior to WWI, it was Germans who ruled the roost in Europe. Petty German
          princes became kings in Greece and Romania (two Orthodox nations). Prince
          Philip of Great Britain was such a "Greek" prince.

          Queen Elizabeth, II, notwithstanding her mother (a good Scots woman !), the
          Queen has so many German ancestors, she might as well be regarded as a
          German, herself.

          Ukrainians with blond hair and blue eyes are probably the descendants of the
          Vikings who founded the Russian state. As the medieval Russian Chronicle
          asserts (in a PR coup for the age), the people of Kiev wrote to Rurik and,
          the Chronicle claimed, said they knew about commerce, etc., but they knew
          nothing about politics. So, the Chronicle asserts (notice I keep saying
          "asserts," because I don't believe a word of it), they said to Rurik: "O
          Noble Rurik, come and rule over us."

          God bless Rurik! He was a Viking thug who made good.

          As both my mother and my father were the descendants of the very Rurik who
          ruled Ukraine, whose descendants came to rule Russia, I hope none of you will
          attack me as being anti-my-own-ancestor. I am not. I am merely pointing
          out the silliness of supposing there's any such thing as "ethnic purity,"
          Russian or otherwise. Even the rulers of Russia were not Russian.

          Whatever came of the old Russian saying: "Scratch a Russian, find a Tartar"?

          Just asking.


          Father Andrew
        • emrys`nz
          Nikolaj, Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned. I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a sober life style.
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 30, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            Nikolaj,
             
            Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned.  I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the one lost sheep?
             
            Fr Ambrose
            ===============================
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Nikolaj
             
            AA does not work! AA suggests a fake god of your own imagination.
            9 out of 10 who attend their first meeting never return.
            out those who stay, only a very very little percentage gain recovery.
             
            Alcoholism is a demon . neither new - nor incurable.
            It is in the Scriptures how to drive out these demons.
             
            Nikolaj
             
             
          • PWRBarrett@aol.com
            In a message dated 3/30/00 3:58:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, emrys@globe.net.nz writes:
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 30, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 3/30/00 3:58:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              emrys@... writes:

              << I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a
              sober life style. >>

              Reverend Father,

              I've had any number of friends and acquaintances who've been involved
              in Alcoholics Anonymous and/or Narcotics Anonymous, and my
              impression is that on the whole, for those who make either organization
              a regular part of their lives, they help.

              One thing I have some reservations about is the idea all these people
              have -- and I don't know whether this is official 12-step teaching or
              not -- that "just one drink" or "just one hit of a joint" will set them off
              again on a downward spiral. There is no possibility of temperate
              consumption. A result seems to be that when these people "fall,"
              they tend to go off on a long period of binge drinking (or drug use).
              They seem to feel this is the inevitable consequence of not being
              totally abstinent, and seem to enjoy this period of "backsliding"
              before returning to the program. So the result is often a cycle of
              bingeing, then total abstinence, then more bingeing. Admittedly,
              that's better than bingeing all the time.

              Love,

              Patrick
            • Afanassy Thompson
              ... Hash: SHA1 ... e Nikolaj, e Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned. I know e people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 30, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                Hash: SHA1

                >>>>> "e" == emrys`nz <emrys@...> writes:

                e> Nikolaj,
                e> Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned. I know
                e> people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a
                e> sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through
                e> the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the
                e> one lost sheep?

                His assertions are not unfounded at all. AA/NA rely on anecdotal
                "evidence" to support their claims which bear little scientific
                scrutiny. Their recovery rates actually are no better than anyone
                elses.

                It is dangerous to begin indoctrinating abusers with the odd notion
                that they're powerless & have a disease which is causing bad
                behavior. Not to mention the destructive idea that after 20yrs of
                sobriety, if a person drinks, the 20yrs didn't count & they're back to
                square one.

                Add to this the rather problematic paticipation of Orthodox Christians
                in a non-Orthodox cult.
                (Witness: they have a creed that is hardly ours. They have a "liturgy"
                in the way meetings are conducted including prayer with people
                believing God knows what. They even have a kind of confession that is
                engaged in.)

                No doubt kind-hearted freemasons have at times helped Orthodox
                Christians, but we don't become freemasons despite their protestations
                that our Orthodox affiliation will be acceptable to them. Our faith is
                not on the same footing with protestants &/or tree worshipers for that
                matter.

                Drunkeness & drugs are not new in the world. The Holy Church has some
                2,000 years of experience with it & with the disease of sin. (Not to
                be confused with the 12 step disease model which is unscientific.)

                For a better alternative for your referrals, I'd recommend looking at
                SMART. See: <http://www.smartrecovery.org>

                Ultimately, the person has to decide to stop. That's the bottom
                line. Untill & unless that happens, they won't, even though they might
                accept the idea they ought to. When they do, then they can indeed
                stop.
                - --
                Afanassy Thompson President: Cincinnati GNU/Linux Users Group
                Email: afanassy@... http://www.cglug.org
                =============================================================================
                PGP & GPG Public Keys at http://www.geckonet.net
                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
                Version: GnuPG v1.0.0 (GNU/Linux)
                Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.5 and Gnu Privacy Guard <http://www.gnupg.org/>

                iEYEARECAAYFAjjkRfQACgkQR05L6KVIBCfDXACdGE9vs5FYoXjvrUKzuD+X/j00
                yXcAnj6rAIYYYnwivLKpCUE+rE18jSi/
                =Shtg
                -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
              • fraese
                My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago. This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater s Anonymous, and
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 31, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago.  This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater's Anonymous, and a lot in between. It was actually one of the things that brought us to the ROCA - because we saw that there was absolutely no hope for change through the '12 Steps', and the modern Orthodox (at least here in Alberta) are all pushing 12-Step meetings in their churches. Instead of teaching the Orthodox way of life, the teachings of the fathers, the church, the sacraments, for overcoming the hold that passions have on us, they teach modern mishmash.
                  Theodora
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: emrys`nz
                  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 1:56 PM
                  Subject: [orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

                  Nikolaj,
                   
                  Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned.  I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the one lost sheep?
                   
                  Fr Ambrose
                  ===============================
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Nikolaj
                   
                  AA does not work! AA suggests a fake god of your own imagination.
                  9 out of 10 who attend their first meeting never return.
                  out those who stay, only a very very little percentage gain recovery.
                   
                  Alcoholism is a demon . neither new - nor incurable.
                  It is in the Scriptures how to drive out these demons.
                   
                  Nikolaj
                   
                   

                  This mailing list's archives are at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod

                  eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                  www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                • fraese
                  My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago. This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater s Anonymous, and
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 31, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago.  This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater's Anonymous, and a lot in between. It was actually one of the things that brought us to the ROCA - because we saw that there was absolutely no hope for change through the '12 Steps', and the modern Orthodox (at least here in Alberta) are all pushing 12-Step meetings in their churches. Instead of teaching the Orthodox way of life, the teachings of the fathers, the church, the sacraments, for overcoming the hold that passions have on us, they teach modern mishmash.
                    Theodora
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: emrys`nz
                    Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 1:56 PM
                    Subject: [orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

                    Nikolaj,
                     
                    Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned.  I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the one lost sheep?
                     
                    Fr Ambrose
                    ===============================
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Nikolaj
                     
                    AA does not work! AA suggests a fake god of your own imagination.
                    9 out of 10 who attend their first meeting never return.
                    out those who stay, only a very very little percentage gain recovery.
                     
                    Alcoholism is a demon . neither new - nor incurable.
                    It is in the Scriptures how to drive out these demons.
                     
                    Nikolaj
                     
                     

                    This mailing list's archives are at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod

                    eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                    www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.