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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA?

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  • George
    is this the Roslindale Parish of the Epiphany? George
    Message 1 of 20 , May 29 1:45 PM
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      is this the Roslindale Parish of the Epiphany?

      George


      On Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 04:24PM, "michael nikitin" <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
      >Why should the Church get involved in government affairs?
      >Does it not have problems of it's own that it cannot solve?
      >
      >Comments such as those below coming from a priest are disturbing.
      >Since when does the Church join an organization because it
      >worries what others think?
      >
      >In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
      >not allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
      >Alexey II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of
      >NY and the Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel
      >who refused to sign and join the MP.
      >
      >Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
      >Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.
      >
      >Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
      >return to the Soviet Union.
      >
      >Michael N
      >
      >
      >--- "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> ROCOR's absence from SCOBA also plays into the hands of those
      >> who go on claiming that
      >> we are somehow "uncanonical", or that the OCA "represents the
      >> Russian Church".
      >>
      >> In Christ
      >> Fr. John R. Shaw
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________________________________________________________________________________Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
      >
      >
    • morechoff@aol.com
      Do Bishop Gabriel and Father Valerie Lukianov commemorate the Patriarch? I heard that both would not, but I do not know if that was just rumour (or wishful
      Message 2 of 20 , May 29 2:42 PM
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        Do Bishop Gabriel and Father Valerie Lukianov commemorate the Patriarch? I heard that both would not, but I do not know if that was just rumour (or wishful thinking).

        If Father Alexey Mikrikov was not allowed to serve by Bishop Gabriel, then I suspect it was just rumour.

        Michael Orechoff


        -----Original Message-----
        From: michael nikitin <nikitinmike@...>
        To: ortho <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:55 am
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA?






        Why should the Church get involved in government affairs?
        Does it not have problems of it's own that it cannot solve?

        Comments such as those below coming from a priest are disturbing.
        Since when does the Church join an organization because it
        worries what others think?

        In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
        not allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
        Alexey II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of
        NY and the Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel
        who refused to sign and join the MP.

        Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
        Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.

        Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
        return to the Soviet Union.

        Michael N

        --- "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
        >
        > ROCOR's absence from SCOBA also plays into the hands of those
        > who go on claiming that
        > we are somehow "uncanonical", or that the OCA "represents the
        > Russian Church".
        >
        > In Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw
        >
        >

        __________________________________________________________Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7





        ________________________________________________________________________
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      • DDD
        On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, Mike Nikitin wrote:  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was not  allowed to serve because he
        Message 3 of 20 , May 30 8:53 AM
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          On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:

          �In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was not
          �allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch Alexey
          �II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY and the
          �Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who refused to
          �sign and join the MP.
          _________________________________________________________

          It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand instead of spreading distorted disinformation.

          Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not received the ukaz yet.
          Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop; he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
          Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector, Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is back and all services are as usual.

          If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better yet, please come and join us! :)

          --Dimitra Dwelley
          real name.
          parishioner,
          Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
        • DDD
          On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, Michael N wrote:  Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.  Laurus is giving amnesty to all
          Message 4 of 20 , May 30 8:53 AM
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            On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, "Michael N" wrote:
            �Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
            �Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.

            �Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
            �return to the Soviet Union.

            �Michael N
            __________________________________

            And your unkind insinuations and disinformation about Vladyka Laurus-a good and Godly monk-- remind me of Soviet propaganda.
            Vladyka Laurus has wished everyone to come to know, for themselves, the rightness of the reunification decision, and if he showed a kind intent on his part to accept clergy back if they wish to return, why try to make it sound bad?


            --Dimitra Dwelley
            (real name),
            real parishioner of Holy Epiphany parish.
            See my other post on this subject.
          • Carol
            Well like the Prodigal son s return? That is really nice. We are to welcome back those who have left and lived wrongly. The bible is clear on this. Forgivness
            Message 5 of 20 , May 30 11:37 AM
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              Well like the Prodigal son's return? That is really nice. We are to welcome back those who have left and lived wrongly. The bible is clear on this. Forgivness is the main theme of the Bible. Of course, repntance of wrongs is part of the forgiveness, but only God knows the heart of man. We cannot judge lest we be judged. Do not know about amnesty being the correct word, but anyway forgiveness and a welcome of the Prodigal son is more like it, perhaps?

              Katherine
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: DDD
              To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:53 AM
              Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA?


              On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, "Michael N" wrote:
              �Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
              �Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.

              �Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
              �return to the Soviet Union.

              �Michael N
              __________________________________

              And your unkind insinuations and disinformation about Vladyka Laurus-a good and Godly monk-- remind me of Soviet propaganda.
              Vladyka Laurus has wished everyone to come to know, for themselves, the rightness of the reunification decision, and if he showed a kind intent on his part to accept clergy back if they wish to return, why try to make it sound bad?


              --Dimitra Dwelley
              (real name),
              real parishioner of Holy Epiphany parish.
              See my other post on this subject.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • michael nikitin
              Metr.Laurus joined his Mother Church and everyone that follows him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves, Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated
              Message 6 of 20 , May 30 11:38 AM
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                Metr.Laurus joined his "Mother Church" and everyone that follows
                him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves,
                Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated first. There is no other
                choice. There is no difference if one commemorates Metr.Laurus or
                Patr.Alexey II, they are one.

                Those that commemorate Metr. Laurus and not Patr.Alexey II are
                not being honest with themselves. ROCOR is one with MP, they are
                inseperable now. Whoever the MP is in communon with, those in
                ROCOR under Metr. Laurus are also. We see those in
                ROCOR(L)flagrantly concelebrating with the Antichans, Copts, EP
                and OCA.

                Those in ROCOR(L) now fall under their own Anathema of 1983
                and they also fall under the anathemas of our Ecumenical Councils
                which they disregard against the Monophysite heresy and
                Monothelite heresy, that the Copts and Antiochans have never
                repented of.

                Making up for lost time. Canons...what canons?

                Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.

                Michael N


                --- DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:

                > On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:
                >
                >  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
                > not
                >  allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
                > Alexey
                >  II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY
                > and the
                >  Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who
                > refused to
                >  sign and join the MP.
                > _________________________________________________________
                >
                > It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy
                > Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand
                > instead of spreading distorted disinformation.
                >
                > Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not
                > commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not
                > commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes
                > and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop
                > telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr
                > himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not
                > received the ukaz yet.
                > Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not
                > know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I
                > do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop;
                > he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop
                > and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
                > Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on
                > Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement
                > of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time
                > when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our
                > beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had
                > not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there
                > was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served
                > on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday
                > Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector,
                > Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is
                > back and all services are as usual.
                >
                > If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on
                > at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better
                > yet, please come and join us! :)
                >
                > --Dimitra Dwelley
                > real name.
                > parishioner,
                > Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >








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              • antiquariu@aol.com
                In a message dated 5/30/2007 5:00:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nikitinmike@yahoo.com writes: Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of
                Message 7 of 20 , May 30 3:28 PM
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                  In a message dated 5/30/2007 5:00:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                  nikitinmike@... writes:

                  Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                  and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                  for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                  schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.

                  Michael N




                  And you, dear "Michael," should retire your name and perhaps start using
                  your real one! Personally, I'm amused that those yelling the loudest -- with
                  the exception of Magerovsky and his ilk -- are flying false colors.

                  Vova H., easily identifiable as Vladimir (Werner) Hindrichs, a well known
                  denizen of Washington DC.



                  ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Timothy Tadros
                  Isn t the subject heading premature I have to ask this question because I have not seen where The Standing Conference of the Canonical Bishops in the
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 30 6:10 PM
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                    Isn't the subject heading premature>
                    I have to ask this question because I have not seen where The Standing Conference of the Canonical Bishops in the America's have to put it bluntly INVITED METROPOLITAN LAURUS OF ROCOR TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THEIR GROUP!!!!!!!
                    I looked at their website and they had a meeting of May 25, 2007 nothing was even mentioned about the unification of ROCOR with the MP not a word or sentence. They came out with a green Theology letter on the environment and one on Suicide. Then had a luncheon with the SCOOTCH hiearchs of the Oriental Monophysites jurisdictions at St. Vladimir's Seminary.
                    Not even the Moscow repesentative in America, his Grace Bishop Mercury is a memberof SCOBA he is invited to the meetings and events but he is not a member of SCOBA.
                    Rdr Timothy Tadros








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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • boulia_1
                    Hey, Mike -- High tiem for you to shut up. No one cares about your uninformed opinions. You failed in your efforts to ransack the holy process of
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 30 7:38 PM
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                      Hey, "Mike" --

                      High tiem for you to shut up. No one cares about your uninformed
                      opinions. You failed in your efforts to ransack the holy process of
                      unification, you failed in your devil-inspired efforts to discourage
                      brotherly love among Orthodox. Crawl back into your hole and leave us
                      alone now.

                      I saw the Patriarch with my own eyes, on 5 distinct occasions. You
                      have no right to offer suggestions as to what he should do. He is
                      doing God's work. Your efforts belong to someone else. Go away now.
                      We are tired of your amti-Christian attitudes. Find a monsatery and
                      YOU take up monasticism. Maybe the scales will fall from your eyes
                      and you will learn that we Christians are better off loving one
                      another than not.

                      Wishing your peace in your life,
                      Elizabeth Ledkovsky


                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                      <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Metr.Laurus joined his "Mother Church" and everyone that follows
                      > him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves,
                      > Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated first. There is no other
                      > choice. There is no difference if one commemorates Metr.Laurus or
                      > Patr.Alexey II, they are one.
                      >
                      > Those that commemorate Metr. Laurus and not Patr.Alexey II are
                      > not being honest with themselves. ROCOR is one with MP, they are
                      > inseperable now. Whoever the MP is in communon with, those in
                      > ROCOR under Metr. Laurus are also. We see those in
                      > ROCOR(L)flagrantly concelebrating with the Antichans, Copts, EP
                      > and OCA.
                      >
                      > Those in ROCOR(L) now fall under their own Anathema of 1983
                      > and they also fall under the anathemas of our Ecumenical Councils
                      > which they disregard against the Monophysite heresy and
                      > Monothelite heresy, that the Copts and Antiochans have never
                      > repented of.
                      >
                      > Making up for lost time. Canons...what canons?
                      >
                      > Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                      > and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                      > for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                      > schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.
                      >
                      > Michael N
                      >
                      >
                      > --- DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:
                      > >
                      > >  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
                      > > not
                      > >  allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
                      > > Alexey
                      > >  II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY
                      > > and the
                      > >  Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who
                      > > refused to
                      > >  sign and join the MP.
                      > > _________________________________________________________
                      > >
                      > > It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy
                      > > Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand
                      > > instead of spreading distorted disinformation.
                      > >
                      > > Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not
                      > > commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not
                      > > commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes
                      > > and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop
                      > > telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr
                      > > himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not
                      > > received the ukaz yet.
                      > > Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not
                      > > know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I
                      > > do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop;
                      > > he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop
                      > > and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
                      > > Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on
                      > > Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement
                      > > of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time
                      > > when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our
                      > > beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had
                      > > not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there
                      > > was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served
                      > > on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday
                      > > Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector,
                      > > Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is
                      > > back and all services are as usual.
                      > >
                      > > If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on
                      > > at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better
                      > > yet, please come and join us! :)
                      > >
                      > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                      > > real name.
                      > > parishioner,
                      > > Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ______________________________________________________________________
                      ______________Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and
                      hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
                      > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
                      >
                    • gene703
                      Zdrastvuyte Vova, yeh, the false flag cheapens the arguments for sure, I agree so, let me drag another easily identifiable DC denizen into the never ending
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 30 8:31 PM
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                        Zdrastvuyte Vova,

                        yeh, the false flag cheapens the arguments for sure, I agree
                        so, let me drag another easily identifiable DC denizen into the never ending unia dispute
                        Jim Hoagland from Washington Post
                        Putin back in 2003 by personally visiting Mp. Laurus gave the unia a decisive push, right ?
                        well, Hogland had this to say about your tezka Vladimir Vladimirovich on Sunday may 27

                        ... essential amorality of the Putin regime and its false narrative of recent history
                        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052501924.html

                        what do you think ? was unia also a "false narrative" ?

                        Gene T

                        antiquariu@... wrote:

                        In a message dated 5/30/2007 5:00:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        nikitinmike@... writes:

                        Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                        and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                        for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                        schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.

                        Michael N

                        And you, dear "Michael," should retire your name and perhaps start using
                        your real one! Personally, I'm amused that those yelling the loudest -- with
                        the exception of Magerovsky and his ilk -- are flying false colors.

                        Vova H., easily identifiable as Vladimir (Werner) Hindrichs, a well known
                        denizen of Washington DC.

                        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        ---------------------------------
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                        Did father Pantelemon repent and become a simple monk? ... ______________________________________________________________________ ______________Looking for a
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 31 12:08 AM
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                          Did father Pantelemon repent and become a "simple" monk?



                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                          <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Metr.Laurus joined his "Mother Church" and everyone that follows
                          > him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves,
                          > Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated first. There is no other
                          > choice. There is no difference if one commemorates Metr.Laurus or
                          > Patr.Alexey II, they are one.
                          >
                          > Those that commemorate Metr. Laurus and not Patr.Alexey II are
                          > not being honest with themselves. ROCOR is one with MP, they are
                          > inseperable now. Whoever the MP is in communon with, those in
                          > ROCOR under Metr. Laurus are also. We see those in
                          > ROCOR(L)flagrantly concelebrating with the Antichans, Copts, EP
                          > and OCA.
                          >
                          > Those in ROCOR(L) now fall under their own Anathema of 1983
                          > and they also fall under the anathemas of our Ecumenical Councils
                          > which they disregard against the Monophysite heresy and
                          > Monothelite heresy, that the Copts and Antiochans have never
                          > repented of.
                          >
                          > Making up for lost time. Canons...what canons?
                          >
                          > Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                          > and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                          > for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                          > schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.
                          >
                          > Michael N
                          >
                          >
                          > --- DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:
                          > >
                          > >  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
                          > > not
                          > >  allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
                          > > Alexey
                          > >  II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY
                          > > and the
                          > >  Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who
                          > > refused to
                          > >  sign and join the MP.
                          > > _________________________________________________________
                          > >
                          > > It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy
                          > > Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand
                          > > instead of spreading distorted disinformation.
                          > >
                          > > Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not
                          > > commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not
                          > > commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes
                          > > and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop
                          > > telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr
                          > > himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not
                          > > received the ukaz yet.
                          > > Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not
                          > > know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I
                          > > do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop;
                          > > he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop
                          > > and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
                          > > Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on
                          > > Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement
                          > > of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time
                          > > when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our
                          > > beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had
                          > > not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there
                          > > was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served
                          > > on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday
                          > > Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector,
                          > > Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is
                          > > back and all services are as usual.
                          > >
                          > > If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on
                          > > at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better
                          > > yet, please come and join us! :)
                          > >
                          > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                          > > real name.
                          > > parishioner,
                          > > Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          ______________________________________________________________________
                          ______________Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and
                          hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
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                          >
                        • Aleksandr Andreev
                          Yes, climate is changing. But the bottom line is that climate is changing for reasons that we do not know or understand. Scientific consensus (which actually
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 31 12:53 AM
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                            Yes, climate is changing. But the bottom line is that climate is
                            changing for reasons that we do not know or understand. Scientific
                            "consensus" (which actually does not exist on this issue) is not a
                            reason to believe that human activity is responsible for global
                            climate change. There is scientific "consensus" about Neo-Darwinism,
                            but that doesn't "prove" that evolutionary theory is true. Scientific
                            theories are not proved by "consensus", they are proved by evidence.
                            The evidence in this case is not conclusive.

                            Anyone with access to a computer and some basic statistical skill can
                            download the data from the Vostok ice station in Antartica. It is
                            available for free at
                            http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/antarctica/vostok/vostok_data.html
                            Plotting a time series of this data reveals that there are indeed
                            interactions between temperature and atmospheric CO2 levels, but these
                            are interactions
                            * of which we do not know the nature
                            * of which we do not know the magnitude
                            * and, importantly, of which we do not know the direction!

                            The historical record shows evidence of large and rapid temperature
                            variations long before the start of human agricultural activity, much
                            less the industrial revolution. Consider this: the release of CO2 into
                            the atmosphere may actually be helping us avoid another ice age, given
                            the fact that the sun will enter a cool cycle in the forseeable
                            future!

                            I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                            I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                            scientific issues and that SCOBA bishops would be better served not
                            making pronouncements on issues for which there is not only *no
                            consensus within the Church*, but *no conclusive scientific evidence.*
                            When the Church begins commenting on science, the Church runs the
                            risk of discrediting itself when that science turns out to be false.
                            Do we want the Church to be labeled "greenhouse-gas theorists" 60-70
                            years down the road when "scientific consensus" changes?

                            A

                            ---------
                            Aleksandr Andreev
                            Intern, St Petersburg State University
                            School of Management
                          • Fr. John R. Shaw
                            ... JRS: And if ROCOR were represented in SCOBA, our bishops would be present to put forth that very point.
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 31 6:36 AM
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                              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Aleksandr Andreev" <aleksandr.andreev@...>
                              wrote:

                              > I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                              > I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                              > scientific issues ...

                              JRS: And if ROCOR were represented in SCOBA, our bishops would be present to put forth
                              that very point.
                            • Theodora
                              While one may view climate change as belonging only to the scientific community I would believe that whereever an Orthodox Priest finds himself and his people
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 31 9:05 AM
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                                While one may view climate change as belonging only to the scientific
                                community I would believe that whereever an Orthodox Priest finds himself
                                and his people living and trying to feed themselves belonging to the
                                Orthodox community. Once it would be a local condition to that community
                                but now it is world wide. If a farmer goes to his Priest and says my family
                                is hungry and has no water due to conditions then that Orthodox community
                                would help that family. Our family today is the world. Are you saying
                                that it is not? That climate change is only in the minds of the scientific
                                community? It does not have anything to do with your daily life? Climate
                                change is a condition and how we react to it is our moral condition. If I
                                am causing pain to my neighbor then I am at fault am I not? I am pleased
                                that Orthodox Bishops are concerned for their flock and neighbors. It is
                                only political when we hide from responsibility. " Let someone else take
                                care of things...I am doing very well thank you" No, we are all on the same
                                planet God gave to us. It is our concern.

                                It is not a Russian thing, a Greek thing. It is "our thing". I want the
                                Church to be labeled "God's Church and caring". Remember when certain
                                churches and governments laughed and derided the RCC for giving out iodine
                                tablets to people after one country's neuclear disaster? Do not live for
                                what you think people will think of you 60-70 years from now but for what
                                people and mostly God will think of you at this very moment.

                                Theodora in The Mountains
















                                > I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                                > I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                                > scientific issues and that SCOBA bishops would be better served not
                                > making pronouncements on issues for which there is not only *no
                                > consensus within the Church*, but *no conclusive scientific evidence.*
                                > When the Church begins commenting on science, the Church runs the
                                > risk of discrediting itself when that science turns out to be false.
                                > Do we want the Church to be labeled "greenhouse-gas theorists" 60-70
                                > years down the road when "scientific consensus" changes?
                                >
                                > A
                                >
                                > ---------
                                > Aleksandr Andreev
                                > Intern, St Petersburg State University
                                > School of Management
                                >
                              • Carol
                                Dear in Christ, Michael, Of course not! (A perversion as such, cannot be placed in temptations way) But at the same time, if they repented, and was
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                  Dear in Christ, Michael,

                                  Of course not! (A perversion as such, cannot be placed in temptations way) But at the same time, if they ''repented,'' and was ''trying to change,'''( Which maybe only God, and the person, and maybe the confessor would know) I am not the one to hold the judgment. I may not agree with the sin, I may abhor the sin, and I may think it very ,very evil beyond reproach. If Jesus came to Earth to 'not Judge' then who am I to do it. for him? I personally would find it HARD to forgive,( as my human side) such a person( Personally) and only through God's love could I even begin.I certainly would say they need to be CLOSELY watched, and not trusted. It is not for us to know ( IF they 'repented,' if God has locked them out of the Kindgdom of heaven forever.) God knows IF the Soviets have repented, or if they mean well, and why we merged, etc, or why NOW, and what is really in the minds and hearts, of those imvoloved, and he can see the hearts of men, and God WILL judge in the 2nd coming. We are not to judge, but God wil , only God is a just judge,m and if we cannot forgive then will be forgiven? ( "no")According to the bible... Jesus did not judge, should we? WE may hate the sin, but not the sinner.

                                  Katherine
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: michael nikitin
                                  To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:32 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA?


                                  yes, forgive, but would Katherine let a forgiven pedophile be in
                                  charge of kids?

                                  Michael N

                                  --- Carol <weaver32@...> wrote:

                                  > Well like the Prodigal son's return? That is really nice. We
                                  > are to welcome back those who have left and lived wrongly. The
                                  > bible is clear on this. Forgivness is the main theme of the
                                  > Bible. Of course, repntance of wrongs is part of the
                                  > forgiveness, but only God knows the heart of man. We cannot
                                  > judge lest we be judged. Do not know about amnesty being the
                                  > correct word, but anyway forgiveness and a welcome of the
                                  > Prodigal son is more like it, perhaps?
                                  >
                                  > Katherine
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: DDD
                                  > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:53 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR
                                  > should not be in SCOBA?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, "Michael N" wrote:
                                  > �Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago
                                  > that Metr.
                                  > �Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.
                                  >
                                  > �Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the
                                  > war to
                                  > �return to the Soviet Union.
                                  >
                                  > �Michael N
                                  > __________________________________
                                  >
                                  > And your unkind insinuations and disinformation about Vladyka
                                  > Laurus-a good and Godly monk-- remind me of Soviet propaganda.
                                  > Vladyka Laurus has wished everyone to come to know, for
                                  > themselves, the rightness of the reunification decision, and if
                                  > he showed a kind intent on his part to accept clergy back if
                                  > they wish to return, why try to make it sound bad?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --Dimitra Dwelley
                                  > (real name),
                                  > real parishioner of Holy Epiphany parish.
                                  > See my other post on this subject.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >

                                  __________________________________________________________Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
                                  http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Theodora
                                  HUH???????? And just where do you get that all we are to do is pray that man can grow food? Readings, Fathers, Bible, etc.??????? And just what planet do
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                    HUH???????? And just where do you get that all we are to do is pray that
                                    man can grow food? Readings, Fathers, Bible, etc.??????? And just what
                                    planet do you live on? To state and ask such questions. So far I have been
                                    watcging and reading the ROCOR and Synod lists, I know of the love and
                                    compassion by our leaders of the Church on the two clergy lists. This shows
                                    what I have and many others have been watching for.......the Fruits of this
                                    union and love and compassion of the Faith as it shines it light out to the
                                    world. Thank you for now showing clearly the path that all will walk unto
                                    their salvation. Your love is overwhelming.

                                    Theodora in The Mountains


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "George" <kharaku@...>
                                    To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 4:44 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in
                                    SCOBA?


                                    > The ORTHODOX Position is to pray that God protect mankind's ability to
                                    > grow food. That's it.
                                    >
                                    > Further I've yet to hear any evidence of folks not being able to farm
                                    > because of global warming.
                                    >
                                    > Further still. The climate has gone up and down many times since Noah,
                                    > and folks have adapted.
                                    >
                                    > George
                                    >
                                    > On Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 04:34PM, "Theodora" <theomtn@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >>While one may view climate change as belonging only to the scientific
                                    >>community I would believe that whereever an Orthodox Priest finds himself
                                    >>and his people living and trying to feed themselves belonging to the
                                    >>Orthodox community. Once it would be a local condition to that community
                                    >>but now it is world wide. If a farmer goes to his Priest and says my
                                    >>family
                                    >>is hungry and has no water due to conditions then that Orthodox community
                                    >>would help that family. Our family today is the world. Are you saying
                                    >>that it is not? That climate change is only in the minds of the
                                    >>scientific
                                    >>community? It does not have anything to do with your daily life? Climate
                                    >>change is a condition and how we react to it is our moral condition. If I
                                    >>am causing pain to my neighbor then I am at fault am I not? I am pleased
                                    >>that Orthodox Bishops are concerned for their flock and neighbors. It is
                                    >>only political when we hide from responsibility. " Let someone else take
                                    >>care of things...I am doing very well thank you" No, we are all on the
                                    >>same
                                    >>planet God gave to us. It is our concern.
                                    >>
                                    >>It is not a Russian thing, a Greek thing. It is "our thing". I want the
                                    >>Church to be labeled "God's Church and caring". Remember when certain
                                    >>churches and governments laughed and derided the RCC for giving out iodine
                                    >>tablets to people after one country's neuclear disaster? Do not live for
                                    >>what you think people will think of you 60-70 years from now but for what
                                    >>people and mostly God will think of you at this very moment.
                                    >>
                                    >>Theodora in The Mountains
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>> I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                                    >>> I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                                    >>> scientific issues and that SCOBA bishops would be better served not
                                    >>> making pronouncements on issues for which there is not only *no
                                    >>> consensus within the Church*, but *no conclusive scientific evidence.*
                                    >>> When the Church begins commenting on science, the Church runs the
                                    >>> risk of discrediting itself when that science turns out to be false.
                                    >>> Do we want the Church to be labeled "greenhouse-gas theorists" 60-70
                                    >>> years down the road when "scientific consensus" changes?
                                    >>>
                                    >>> A
                                    >>>
                                    >>> ---------
                                    >>> Aleksandr Andreev
                                    >>> Intern, St Petersburg State University
                                    >>> School of Management
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
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