Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA

Expand Messages
  • Aleksandr Andreev
    In the recent declaration on global climate change, SCOBA hierarchs have taken to advocating scientifically unfounded ideas and taking sides in a scientific
    Message 1 of 20 , May 29 2:03 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      In the recent declaration on global climate change, SCOBA hierarchs
      have taken to advocating scientifically unfounded ideas and taking
      sides in a scientific debate. Quite unprecedented for hierarchs of the
      church, IMHO. Consider, for example, the following statements:

      "* The rapid extent of temperature increase is historically
      unparalleled. Past changes in climate occurred over extended periods
      of time and were considerably less severe.

      * The human role in changing the climate is unique today. In earlier
      centuries, people did not have the technological capability to make
      such radical changes to the planet as are now taking place."
      (http://www.scoba.us/news/newsdetail.asp?id=340)

      Statement one is false. One can only speak of an increase in
      temperatures relative to a base point. Certainly the increase in
      temperatures following the ice age was greater than the current.

      Statement two is unproven. Russian researchers have regressed the
      temperature of the earth on the temperature of the sun and obtained
      R-squared values of 0.9 and higher. Yes, I know enough econometric
      theory to be sceptical of such results, yet an R-squared of 0.9 is
      nothing to frown upon. In fact, there is debatably more evidence that
      current global warming is caused by the warming of the sun than by CO2
      emissions. If predictions are true, we will experience global cooling
      say in about 60-100 years.

      SCOBA hierarchs could have at least opened Wikipedia and read about
      Solar variation before taking sides in a scientific debate.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation

      A

      -----------------
      Aleksandr Andreev
      Intern, St Petersburg State University
      School of Management
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      ... JRS: Two comments: 1) The issue of global warming has, unfortunately, become a partisan matter in the United States, with the Republicans tending to deny
      Message 2 of 20 , May 29 8:08 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Aleksandr Andreev" <aleksandr.andreev@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > In the recent declaration on global climate change, SCOBA hierarchs
        > have taken to advocating scientifically unfounded ideas and taking
        > sides in a scientific debate. Quite unprecedented for hierarchs of the
        > church, IMHO. Consider, for example, the following statements:

        JRS: Two comments:

        1) The issue of "global warming" has, unfortunately, become a partisan matter in the
        United States, with the Republicans tending to deny that there is any such warming, while
        the Democrats merely do lip service to it.

        Although I'm a political conservative, I find it very hard to deny that there is a process of
        global warming going on. At any rate, it provides an explanation for all of the natural
        disasters of the past few years, which do seem to come from a disruption in the earth's
        climate.

        Are humans reponsible? Frankly, I think they are.

        2) But even if there is no "global warming", why should this be a reason for ROCOR not to
        be represented in SCOBA?

        We should remember that ROCOR was initially in SCOBA, and that there are, according to
        Greek Archbishop Demetrios, documents from SCOBA's beginnings that prove it.

        I do not see SCOBA as "a modernist organization", but rather as a forum for Orthodox
        bishops.

        If ROCOR is not represented, that does not mean that ROCOR will be "kept pure".

        It only means that ROCOR's voice will not be heard there.

        ROCOR's absence from SCOBA also plays into the hands of those who go on claiming that
        we are somehow "uncanonical", or that the OCA "represents the Russian Church".

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • Theodora
        Well, I wondered how long it would be before we got the Russian political mind set on the lists. Climate is changing.....you can discuss cause till the cows
        Message 3 of 20 , May 29 8:43 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Well, I wondered how long it would be before we got the Russian political
          mind set on the lists. Climate is changing.....you can discuss cause till
          the cows come home (if they haven't died in the fields from heat and lack of
          water).....meanwhile if I go out and water my yard or wash my car or try to
          keep my garden alive on a daily schedule I would be fined and my neighbors
          would not be happy. The lakes are drying out, the mountains burn and the
          air is filled with smoke from fires hundreds of miles away. But I will just
          go ahead and pretend that all is just in my delusional mind and live like I
          always have. Lord have mercy. Guess you have a protective bubble ove
          Russia. The rest of the world doesn't have one.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Aleksandr Andreev" <aleksandr.andreev@...>
          To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:03 AM
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA


          > In the recent declaration on global climate change, SCOBA hierarchs
          > have taken to advocating scientifically unfounded ideas and taking
          > sides in a scientific debate. Quite unprecedented for hierarchs of the
          > church, IMHO. Consider, for example, the following statements:
          >
          > "* The rapid extent of temperature increase is historically
          > unparalleled. Past changes in climate occurred over extended periods
          > of time and were considerably less severe.
          >
          > * The human role in changing the climate is unique today. In earlier
          > centuries, people did not have the technological capability to make
          > such radical changes to the planet as are now taking place."
          > (http://www.scoba.us/news/newsdetail.asp?id=340)
          >
          > Statement one is false. One can only speak of an increase in
          > temperatures relative to a base point. Certainly the increase in
          > temperatures following the ice age was greater than the current.
          >
          > Statement two is unproven. Russian researchers have regressed the
          > temperature of the earth on the temperature of the sun and obtained
          > R-squared values of 0.9 and higher. Yes, I know enough econometric
          > theory to be sceptical of such results, yet an R-squared of 0.9 is
          > nothing to frown upon. In fact, there is debatably more evidence that
          > current global warming is caused by the warming of the sun than by CO2
          > emissions. If predictions are true, we will experience global cooling
          > say in about 60-100 years.
          >
          > SCOBA hierarchs could have at least opened Wikipedia and read about
          > Solar variation before taking sides in a scientific debate.
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation
          >
          > A
          >
          > -----------------
          > Aleksandr Andreev
          > Intern, St Petersburg State University
          > School of Management
          >
        • michael nikitin
          Why should the Church get involved in government affairs? Does it not have problems of it s own that it cannot solve? Comments such as those below coming from
          Message 4 of 20 , May 29 11:55 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Why should the Church get involved in government affairs?
            Does it not have problems of it's own that it cannot solve?

            Comments such as those below coming from a priest are disturbing.
            Since when does the Church join an organization because it
            worries what others think?

            In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
            not allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
            Alexey II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of
            NY and the Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel
            who refused to sign and join the MP.

            Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
            Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.

            Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
            return to the Soviet Union.

            Michael N


            --- "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
            >
            > ROCOR's absence from SCOBA also plays into the hands of those
            > who go on claiming that
            > we are somehow "uncanonical", or that the OCA "represents the
            > Russian Church".
            >
            > In Christ
            > Fr. John R. Shaw
            >
            >






            ____________________________________________________________________________________Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
          • George
            is this the Roslindale Parish of the Epiphany? George
            Message 5 of 20 , May 29 1:45 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              is this the Roslindale Parish of the Epiphany?

              George


              On Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 04:24PM, "michael nikitin" <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
              >Why should the Church get involved in government affairs?
              >Does it not have problems of it's own that it cannot solve?
              >
              >Comments such as those below coming from a priest are disturbing.
              >Since when does the Church join an organization because it
              >worries what others think?
              >
              >In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
              >not allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
              >Alexey II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of
              >NY and the Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel
              >who refused to sign and join the MP.
              >
              >Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
              >Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.
              >
              >Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
              >return to the Soviet Union.
              >
              >Michael N
              >
              >
              >--- "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> ROCOR's absence from SCOBA also plays into the hands of those
              >> who go on claiming that
              >> we are somehow "uncanonical", or that the OCA "represents the
              >> Russian Church".
              >>
              >> In Christ
              >> Fr. John R. Shaw
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________________________________________________________________________________Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
              >
              >
            • morechoff@aol.com
              Do Bishop Gabriel and Father Valerie Lukianov commemorate the Patriarch? I heard that both would not, but I do not know if that was just rumour (or wishful
              Message 6 of 20 , May 29 2:42 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Do Bishop Gabriel and Father Valerie Lukianov commemorate the Patriarch? I heard that both would not, but I do not know if that was just rumour (or wishful thinking).

                If Father Alexey Mikrikov was not allowed to serve by Bishop Gabriel, then I suspect it was just rumour.

                Michael Orechoff


                -----Original Message-----
                From: michael nikitin <nikitinmike@...>
                To: ortho <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:55 am
                Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA?






                Why should the Church get involved in government affairs?
                Does it not have problems of it's own that it cannot solve?

                Comments such as those below coming from a priest are disturbing.
                Since when does the Church join an organization because it
                worries what others think?

                In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
                not allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
                Alexey II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of
                NY and the Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel
                who refused to sign and join the MP.

                Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
                Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.

                Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
                return to the Soviet Union.

                Michael N

                --- "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
                >
                > ROCOR's absence from SCOBA also plays into the hands of those
                > who go on claiming that
                > we are somehow "uncanonical", or that the OCA "represents the
                > Russian Church".
                >
                > In Christ
                > Fr. John R. Shaw
                >
                >

                __________________________________________________________Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7





                ________________________________________________________________________
                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • DDD
                On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, Mike Nikitin wrote:  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was not  allowed to serve because he
                Message 7 of 20 , May 30 8:53 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:

                  �In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was not
                  �allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch Alexey
                  �II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY and the
                  �Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who refused to
                  �sign and join the MP.
                  _________________________________________________________

                  It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand instead of spreading distorted disinformation.

                  Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not received the ukaz yet.
                  Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop; he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
                  Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector, Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is back and all services are as usual.

                  If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better yet, please come and join us! :)

                  --Dimitra Dwelley
                  real name.
                  parishioner,
                  Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
                • DDD
                  On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, Michael N wrote:  Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.  Laurus is giving amnesty to all
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 30 8:53 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, "Michael N" wrote:
                    �Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
                    �Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.

                    �Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
                    �return to the Soviet Union.

                    �Michael N
                    __________________________________

                    And your unkind insinuations and disinformation about Vladyka Laurus-a good and Godly monk-- remind me of Soviet propaganda.
                    Vladyka Laurus has wished everyone to come to know, for themselves, the rightness of the reunification decision, and if he showed a kind intent on his part to accept clergy back if they wish to return, why try to make it sound bad?


                    --Dimitra Dwelley
                    (real name),
                    real parishioner of Holy Epiphany parish.
                    See my other post on this subject.
                  • Carol
                    Well like the Prodigal son s return? That is really nice. We are to welcome back those who have left and lived wrongly. The bible is clear on this. Forgivness
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 30 11:37 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well like the Prodigal son's return? That is really nice. We are to welcome back those who have left and lived wrongly. The bible is clear on this. Forgivness is the main theme of the Bible. Of course, repntance of wrongs is part of the forgiveness, but only God knows the heart of man. We cannot judge lest we be judged. Do not know about amnesty being the correct word, but anyway forgiveness and a welcome of the Prodigal son is more like it, perhaps?

                      Katherine
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: DDD
                      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:53 AM
                      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA?


                      On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, "Michael N" wrote:
                      �Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago that Metr.
                      �Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.

                      �Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the war to
                      �return to the Soviet Union.

                      �Michael N
                      __________________________________

                      And your unkind insinuations and disinformation about Vladyka Laurus-a good and Godly monk-- remind me of Soviet propaganda.
                      Vladyka Laurus has wished everyone to come to know, for themselves, the rightness of the reunification decision, and if he showed a kind intent on his part to accept clergy back if they wish to return, why try to make it sound bad?


                      --Dimitra Dwelley
                      (real name),
                      real parishioner of Holy Epiphany parish.
                      See my other post on this subject.




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • michael nikitin
                      Metr.Laurus joined his Mother Church and everyone that follows him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves, Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 30 11:38 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Metr.Laurus joined his "Mother Church" and everyone that follows
                        him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves,
                        Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated first. There is no other
                        choice. There is no difference if one commemorates Metr.Laurus or
                        Patr.Alexey II, they are one.

                        Those that commemorate Metr. Laurus and not Patr.Alexey II are
                        not being honest with themselves. ROCOR is one with MP, they are
                        inseperable now. Whoever the MP is in communon with, those in
                        ROCOR under Metr. Laurus are also. We see those in
                        ROCOR(L)flagrantly concelebrating with the Antichans, Copts, EP
                        and OCA.

                        Those in ROCOR(L) now fall under their own Anathema of 1983
                        and they also fall under the anathemas of our Ecumenical Councils
                        which they disregard against the Monophysite heresy and
                        Monothelite heresy, that the Copts and Antiochans have never
                        repented of.

                        Making up for lost time. Canons...what canons?

                        Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                        and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                        for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                        schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.

                        Michael N


                        --- DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:

                        > On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:
                        >
                        >  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
                        > not
                        >  allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
                        > Alexey
                        >  II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY
                        > and the
                        >  Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who
                        > refused to
                        >  sign and join the MP.
                        > _________________________________________________________
                        >
                        > It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy
                        > Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand
                        > instead of spreading distorted disinformation.
                        >
                        > Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not
                        > commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not
                        > commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes
                        > and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop
                        > telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr
                        > himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not
                        > received the ukaz yet.
                        > Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not
                        > know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I
                        > do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop;
                        > he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop
                        > and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
                        > Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on
                        > Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement
                        > of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time
                        > when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our
                        > beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had
                        > not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there
                        > was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served
                        > on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday
                        > Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector,
                        > Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is
                        > back and all services are as usual.
                        >
                        > If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on
                        > at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better
                        > yet, please come and join us! :)
                        >
                        > --Dimitra Dwelley
                        > real name.
                        > parishioner,
                        > Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >








                        ____________________________________________________________________________________Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
                        http://farechase.yahoo.com/
                      • antiquariu@aol.com
                        In a message dated 5/30/2007 5:00:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nikitinmike@yahoo.com writes: Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 30 3:28 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In a message dated 5/30/2007 5:00:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                          nikitinmike@... writes:

                          Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                          and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                          for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                          schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.

                          Michael N




                          And you, dear "Michael," should retire your name and perhaps start using
                          your real one! Personally, I'm amused that those yelling the loudest -- with
                          the exception of Magerovsky and his ilk -- are flying false colors.

                          Vova H., easily identifiable as Vladimir (Werner) Hindrichs, a well known
                          denizen of Washington DC.



                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Timothy Tadros
                          Isn t the subject heading premature I have to ask this question because I have not seen where The Standing Conference of the Canonical Bishops in the
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 30 6:10 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Isn't the subject heading premature>
                            I have to ask this question because I have not seen where The Standing Conference of the Canonical Bishops in the America's have to put it bluntly INVITED METROPOLITAN LAURUS OF ROCOR TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THEIR GROUP!!!!!!!
                            I looked at their website and they had a meeting of May 25, 2007 nothing was even mentioned about the unification of ROCOR with the MP not a word or sentence. They came out with a green Theology letter on the environment and one on Suicide. Then had a luncheon with the SCOOTCH hiearchs of the Oriental Monophysites jurisdictions at St. Vladimir's Seminary.
                            Not even the Moscow repesentative in America, his Grace Bishop Mercury is a memberof SCOBA he is invited to the meetings and events but he is not a member of SCOBA.
                            Rdr Timothy Tadros








                            ---------------------------------
                            Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
                            Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • boulia_1
                            Hey, Mike -- High tiem for you to shut up. No one cares about your uninformed opinions. You failed in your efforts to ransack the holy process of
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 30 7:38 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hey, "Mike" --

                              High tiem for you to shut up. No one cares about your uninformed
                              opinions. You failed in your efforts to ransack the holy process of
                              unification, you failed in your devil-inspired efforts to discourage
                              brotherly love among Orthodox. Crawl back into your hole and leave us
                              alone now.

                              I saw the Patriarch with my own eyes, on 5 distinct occasions. You
                              have no right to offer suggestions as to what he should do. He is
                              doing God's work. Your efforts belong to someone else. Go away now.
                              We are tired of your amti-Christian attitudes. Find a monsatery and
                              YOU take up monasticism. Maybe the scales will fall from your eyes
                              and you will learn that we Christians are better off loving one
                              another than not.

                              Wishing your peace in your life,
                              Elizabeth Ledkovsky


                              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                              <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Metr.Laurus joined his "Mother Church" and everyone that follows
                              > him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves,
                              > Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated first. There is no other
                              > choice. There is no difference if one commemorates Metr.Laurus or
                              > Patr.Alexey II, they are one.
                              >
                              > Those that commemorate Metr. Laurus and not Patr.Alexey II are
                              > not being honest with themselves. ROCOR is one with MP, they are
                              > inseperable now. Whoever the MP is in communon with, those in
                              > ROCOR under Metr. Laurus are also. We see those in
                              > ROCOR(L)flagrantly concelebrating with the Antichans, Copts, EP
                              > and OCA.
                              >
                              > Those in ROCOR(L) now fall under their own Anathema of 1983
                              > and they also fall under the anathemas of our Ecumenical Councils
                              > which they disregard against the Monophysite heresy and
                              > Monothelite heresy, that the Copts and Antiochans have never
                              > repented of.
                              >
                              > Making up for lost time. Canons...what canons?
                              >
                              > Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                              > and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                              > for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                              > schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.
                              >
                              > Michael N
                              >
                              >
                              > --- DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:
                              > >
                              > >  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
                              > > not
                              > >  allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
                              > > Alexey
                              > >  II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY
                              > > and the
                              > >  Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who
                              > > refused to
                              > >  sign and join the MP.
                              > > _________________________________________________________
                              > >
                              > > It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy
                              > > Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand
                              > > instead of spreading distorted disinformation.
                              > >
                              > > Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not
                              > > commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not
                              > > commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes
                              > > and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop
                              > > telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr
                              > > himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not
                              > > received the ukaz yet.
                              > > Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not
                              > > know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I
                              > > do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop;
                              > > he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop
                              > > and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
                              > > Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on
                              > > Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement
                              > > of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time
                              > > when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our
                              > > beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had
                              > > not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there
                              > > was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served
                              > > on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday
                              > > Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector,
                              > > Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is
                              > > back and all services are as usual.
                              > >
                              > > If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on
                              > > at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better
                              > > yet, please come and join us! :)
                              > >
                              > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                              > > real name.
                              > > parishioner,
                              > > Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              ______________________________________________________________________
                              ______________Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and
                              hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
                              > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
                              >
                            • gene703
                              Zdrastvuyte Vova, yeh, the false flag cheapens the arguments for sure, I agree so, let me drag another easily identifiable DC denizen into the never ending
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 30 8:31 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Zdrastvuyte Vova,

                                yeh, the false flag cheapens the arguments for sure, I agree
                                so, let me drag another easily identifiable DC denizen into the never ending unia dispute
                                Jim Hoagland from Washington Post
                                Putin back in 2003 by personally visiting Mp. Laurus gave the unia a decisive push, right ?
                                well, Hogland had this to say about your tezka Vladimir Vladimirovich on Sunday may 27

                                ... essential amorality of the Putin regime and its false narrative of recent history
                                http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052501924.html

                                what do you think ? was unia also a "false narrative" ?

                                Gene T

                                antiquariu@... wrote:

                                In a message dated 5/30/2007 5:00:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                nikitinmike@... writes:

                                Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                                and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                                for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                                schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.

                                Michael N

                                And you, dear "Michael," should retire your name and perhaps start using
                                your real one! Personally, I'm amused that those yelling the loudest -- with
                                the exception of Magerovsky and his ilk -- are flying false colors.

                                Vova H., easily identifiable as Vladimir (Werner) Hindrichs, a well known
                                denizen of Washington DC.

                                ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                ---------------------------------
                                Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                                Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                Did father Pantelemon repent and become a simple monk? ... ______________________________________________________________________ ______________Looking for a
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 31 12:08 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Did father Pantelemon repent and become a "simple" monk?



                                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                  <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Metr.Laurus joined his "Mother Church" and everyone that follows
                                  > him are now one with the MP. Wherever Metr. Laurus serves,
                                  > Patr.Alexey II will be commemorated first. There is no other
                                  > choice. There is no difference if one commemorates Metr.Laurus or
                                  > Patr.Alexey II, they are one.
                                  >
                                  > Those that commemorate Metr. Laurus and not Patr.Alexey II are
                                  > not being honest with themselves. ROCOR is one with MP, they are
                                  > inseperable now. Whoever the MP is in communon with, those in
                                  > ROCOR under Metr. Laurus are also. We see those in
                                  > ROCOR(L)flagrantly concelebrating with the Antichans, Copts, EP
                                  > and OCA.
                                  >
                                  > Those in ROCOR(L) now fall under their own Anathema of 1983
                                  > and they also fall under the anathemas of our Ecumenical Councils
                                  > which they disregard against the Monophysite heresy and
                                  > Monothelite heresy, that the Copts and Antiochans have never
                                  > repented of.
                                  >
                                  > Making up for lost time. Canons...what canons?
                                  >
                                  > Patr.Alexey II should leave WCC, ecumenism, repent of Sergianism,
                                  > and become a simple monk in a Monastery somewhere
                                  > for the good of the Church instead of tearing it apart by causing
                                  > schisms with the help of Metr.Laurus.
                                  >
                                  > Michael N
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:42:52 -0400, "Mike Nikitin" wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >  In the Boston parish of the Epiphany, Fr.Alexey Mikrikov was
                                  > > not
                                  > >  allowed to serve because he refused to commemorate Patriarch
                                  > > Alexey
                                  > >  II. The Antimense was taken away by order of B.Gabriel of NY
                                  > > and the
                                  > >  Church closed. Fr.Alexey Mikrikov joined B.Agafangel who
                                  > > refused to
                                  > >  sign and join the MP.
                                  > > _________________________________________________________
                                  > >
                                  > > It would be so nice if "Mike Nikitin" would attend Holy
                                  > > Epiphany in person, so she could get these things first-hand
                                  > > instead of spreading distorted disinformation.
                                  > >
                                  > > Fr. Alexei was not allowed to serve because he would not
                                  > > commemorate + METR. LAURUS. Holy Epiphany parish has not
                                  > > commemorated the Patriarch yet, until, like all other parishes
                                  > > and dioceses, it receives an ukaz from its ruling bishop
                                  > > telling us to do so. Since our ruling Bishop is Metr. Lavr
                                  > > himself, who is away, as of at least Pentecost we had not
                                  > > received the ukaz yet.
                                  > > Moreover, since our ruling bishop is +Metr. Lavr, I do not
                                  > > know how or if Bishop Gabriel has anything to do with this. I
                                  > > do know that a priest is only a *representative* of his bishop;
                                  > > he cannot just haul off and refuse to commemorate his bishop
                                  > > and then still expect to serve in that bishop's parish.
                                  > > Finally, the church was not closed--only the Liturgy on
                                  > > Ascension cancelled because of Fr. Alexei's sudden announcement
                                  > > of his refusal to commemorate our ruling hierarch--at a time
                                  > > when our rector was away for the festivities in Moscow, and our
                                  > > beloved previous rector, Fr. Roman, had just reposed and had
                                  > > not even been buried yet. As Fr. Andrei Papkov posted, there
                                  > > was a reader's service on Ascension. A Pannihida was served
                                  > > on Friday evening by Father Michael Crowley. On Saturday
                                  > > Archpriest Vsevolod Drobot came to serve until our rector,
                                  > > Father Victor Boldewskul, returned from Russia. Fr. Victor is
                                  > > back and all services are as usual.
                                  > >
                                  > > If anyone wants accurate information on what *really* goes on
                                  > > at Holy Epiphany, please ask one of us who goes there. Better
                                  > > yet, please come and join us! :)
                                  > >
                                  > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                                  > > real name.
                                  > > parishioner,
                                  > > Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  ______________________________________________________________________
                                  ______________Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and
                                  hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
                                  > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
                                  >
                                • Aleksandr Andreev
                                  Yes, climate is changing. But the bottom line is that climate is changing for reasons that we do not know or understand. Scientific consensus (which actually
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 31 12:53 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Yes, climate is changing. But the bottom line is that climate is
                                    changing for reasons that we do not know or understand. Scientific
                                    "consensus" (which actually does not exist on this issue) is not a
                                    reason to believe that human activity is responsible for global
                                    climate change. There is scientific "consensus" about Neo-Darwinism,
                                    but that doesn't "prove" that evolutionary theory is true. Scientific
                                    theories are not proved by "consensus", they are proved by evidence.
                                    The evidence in this case is not conclusive.

                                    Anyone with access to a computer and some basic statistical skill can
                                    download the data from the Vostok ice station in Antartica. It is
                                    available for free at
                                    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/antarctica/vostok/vostok_data.html
                                    Plotting a time series of this data reveals that there are indeed
                                    interactions between temperature and atmospheric CO2 levels, but these
                                    are interactions
                                    * of which we do not know the nature
                                    * of which we do not know the magnitude
                                    * and, importantly, of which we do not know the direction!

                                    The historical record shows evidence of large and rapid temperature
                                    variations long before the start of human agricultural activity, much
                                    less the industrial revolution. Consider this: the release of CO2 into
                                    the atmosphere may actually be helping us avoid another ice age, given
                                    the fact that the sun will enter a cool cycle in the forseeable
                                    future!

                                    I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                                    I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                                    scientific issues and that SCOBA bishops would be better served not
                                    making pronouncements on issues for which there is not only *no
                                    consensus within the Church*, but *no conclusive scientific evidence.*
                                    When the Church begins commenting on science, the Church runs the
                                    risk of discrediting itself when that science turns out to be false.
                                    Do we want the Church to be labeled "greenhouse-gas theorists" 60-70
                                    years down the road when "scientific consensus" changes?

                                    A

                                    ---------
                                    Aleksandr Andreev
                                    Intern, St Petersburg State University
                                    School of Management
                                  • Fr. John R. Shaw
                                    ... JRS: And if ROCOR were represented in SCOBA, our bishops would be present to put forth that very point.
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 31 6:36 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Aleksandr Andreev" <aleksandr.andreev@...>
                                      wrote:

                                      > I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                                      > I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                                      > scientific issues ...

                                      JRS: And if ROCOR were represented in SCOBA, our bishops would be present to put forth
                                      that very point.
                                    • Theodora
                                      While one may view climate change as belonging only to the scientific community I would believe that whereever an Orthodox Priest finds himself and his people
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 31 9:05 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        While one may view climate change as belonging only to the scientific
                                        community I would believe that whereever an Orthodox Priest finds himself
                                        and his people living and trying to feed themselves belonging to the
                                        Orthodox community. Once it would be a local condition to that community
                                        but now it is world wide. If a farmer goes to his Priest and says my family
                                        is hungry and has no water due to conditions then that Orthodox community
                                        would help that family. Our family today is the world. Are you saying
                                        that it is not? That climate change is only in the minds of the scientific
                                        community? It does not have anything to do with your daily life? Climate
                                        change is a condition and how we react to it is our moral condition. If I
                                        am causing pain to my neighbor then I am at fault am I not? I am pleased
                                        that Orthodox Bishops are concerned for their flock and neighbors. It is
                                        only political when we hide from responsibility. " Let someone else take
                                        care of things...I am doing very well thank you" No, we are all on the same
                                        planet God gave to us. It is our concern.

                                        It is not a Russian thing, a Greek thing. It is "our thing". I want the
                                        Church to be labeled "God's Church and caring". Remember when certain
                                        churches and governments laughed and derided the RCC for giving out iodine
                                        tablets to people after one country's neuclear disaster? Do not live for
                                        what you think people will think of you 60-70 years from now but for what
                                        people and mostly God will think of you at this very moment.

                                        Theodora in The Mountains
















                                        > I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                                        > I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                                        > scientific issues and that SCOBA bishops would be better served not
                                        > making pronouncements on issues for which there is not only *no
                                        > consensus within the Church*, but *no conclusive scientific evidence.*
                                        > When the Church begins commenting on science, the Church runs the
                                        > risk of discrediting itself when that science turns out to be false.
                                        > Do we want the Church to be labeled "greenhouse-gas theorists" 60-70
                                        > years down the road when "scientific consensus" changes?
                                        >
                                        > A
                                        >
                                        > ---------
                                        > Aleksandr Andreev
                                        > Intern, St Petersburg State University
                                        > School of Management
                                        >
                                      • Carol
                                        Dear in Christ, Michael, Of course not! (A perversion as such, cannot be placed in temptations way) But at the same time, if they repented, and was
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dear in Christ, Michael,

                                          Of course not! (A perversion as such, cannot be placed in temptations way) But at the same time, if they ''repented,'' and was ''trying to change,'''( Which maybe only God, and the person, and maybe the confessor would know) I am not the one to hold the judgment. I may not agree with the sin, I may abhor the sin, and I may think it very ,very evil beyond reproach. If Jesus came to Earth to 'not Judge' then who am I to do it. for him? I personally would find it HARD to forgive,( as my human side) such a person( Personally) and only through God's love could I even begin.I certainly would say they need to be CLOSELY watched, and not trusted. It is not for us to know ( IF they 'repented,' if God has locked them out of the Kindgdom of heaven forever.) God knows IF the Soviets have repented, or if they mean well, and why we merged, etc, or why NOW, and what is really in the minds and hearts, of those imvoloved, and he can see the hearts of men, and God WILL judge in the 2nd coming. We are not to judge, but God wil , only God is a just judge,m and if we cannot forgive then will be forgiven? ( "no")According to the bible... Jesus did not judge, should we? WE may hate the sin, but not the sinner.

                                          Katherine
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: michael nikitin
                                          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:32 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in SCOBA?


                                          yes, forgive, but would Katherine let a forgiven pedophile be in
                                          charge of kids?

                                          Michael N

                                          --- Carol <weaver32@...> wrote:

                                          > Well like the Prodigal son's return? That is really nice. We
                                          > are to welcome back those who have left and lived wrongly. The
                                          > bible is clear on this. Forgivness is the main theme of the
                                          > Bible. Of course, repntance of wrongs is part of the
                                          > forgiveness, but only God knows the heart of man. We cannot
                                          > judge lest we be judged. Do not know about amnesty being the
                                          > correct word, but anyway forgiveness and a welcome of the
                                          > Prodigal son is more like it, perhaps?
                                          >
                                          > Katherine
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: DDD
                                          > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:53 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR
                                          > should not be in SCOBA?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:45:25 -0700, "Michael N" wrote:
                                          > �Fr.Valerie Lukianov stated in his sermon two weeks ago
                                          > that Metr.
                                          > �Laurus is giving amnesty to all who come back.
                                          >
                                          > �Reminds me of the amnesty that was given those after the
                                          > war to
                                          > �return to the Soviet Union.
                                          >
                                          > �Michael N
                                          > __________________________________
                                          >
                                          > And your unkind insinuations and disinformation about Vladyka
                                          > Laurus-a good and Godly monk-- remind me of Soviet propaganda.
                                          > Vladyka Laurus has wished everyone to come to know, for
                                          > themselves, the rightness of the reunification decision, and if
                                          > he showed a kind intent on his part to accept clergy back if
                                          > they wish to return, why try to make it sound bad?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --Dimitra Dwelley
                                          > (real name),
                                          > real parishioner of Holy Epiphany parish.
                                          > See my other post on this subject.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >

                                          __________________________________________________________Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
                                          http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Theodora
                                          HUH???????? And just where do you get that all we are to do is pray that man can grow food? Readings, Fathers, Bible, etc.??????? And just what planet do
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            HUH???????? And just where do you get that all we are to do is pray that
                                            man can grow food? Readings, Fathers, Bible, etc.??????? And just what
                                            planet do you live on? To state and ask such questions. So far I have been
                                            watcging and reading the ROCOR and Synod lists, I know of the love and
                                            compassion by our leaders of the Church on the two clergy lists. This shows
                                            what I have and many others have been watching for.......the Fruits of this
                                            union and love and compassion of the Faith as it shines it light out to the
                                            world. Thank you for now showing clearly the path that all will walk unto
                                            their salvation. Your love is overwhelming.

                                            Theodora in The Mountains


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "George" <kharaku@...>
                                            To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 4:44 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: One more reason why ROCOR should not be in
                                            SCOBA?


                                            > The ORTHODOX Position is to pray that God protect mankind's ability to
                                            > grow food. That's it.
                                            >
                                            > Further I've yet to hear any evidence of folks not being able to farm
                                            > because of global warming.
                                            >
                                            > Further still. The climate has gone up and down many times since Noah,
                                            > and folks have adapted.
                                            >
                                            > George
                                            >
                                            > On Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 04:34PM, "Theodora" <theomtn@...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            >>While one may view climate change as belonging only to the scientific
                                            >>community I would believe that whereever an Orthodox Priest finds himself
                                            >>and his people living and trying to feed themselves belonging to the
                                            >>Orthodox community. Once it would be a local condition to that community
                                            >>but now it is world wide. If a farmer goes to his Priest and says my
                                            >>family
                                            >>is hungry and has no water due to conditions then that Orthodox community
                                            >>would help that family. Our family today is the world. Are you saying
                                            >>that it is not? That climate change is only in the minds of the
                                            >>scientific
                                            >>community? It does not have anything to do with your daily life? Climate
                                            >>change is a condition and how we react to it is our moral condition. If I
                                            >>am causing pain to my neighbor then I am at fault am I not? I am pleased
                                            >>that Orthodox Bishops are concerned for their flock and neighbors. It is
                                            >>only political when we hide from responsibility. " Let someone else take
                                            >>care of things...I am doing very well thank you" No, we are all on the
                                            >>same
                                            >>planet God gave to us. It is our concern.
                                            >>
                                            >>It is not a Russian thing, a Greek thing. It is "our thing". I want the
                                            >>Church to be labeled "God's Church and caring". Remember when certain
                                            >>churches and governments laughed and derided the RCC for giving out iodine
                                            >>tablets to people after one country's neuclear disaster? Do not live for
                                            >>what you think people will think of you 60-70 years from now but for what
                                            >>people and mostly God will think of you at this very moment.
                                            >>
                                            >>Theodora in The Mountains
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>> I am not advocating one or another position in this scientific debate.
                                            >>> I am simply saying that SCOBA is not the forum for discussion of
                                            >>> scientific issues and that SCOBA bishops would be better served not
                                            >>> making pronouncements on issues for which there is not only *no
                                            >>> consensus within the Church*, but *no conclusive scientific evidence.*
                                            >>> When the Church begins commenting on science, the Church runs the
                                            >>> risk of discrediting itself when that science turns out to be false.
                                            >>> Do we want the Church to be labeled "greenhouse-gas theorists" 60-70
                                            >>> years down the road when "scientific consensus" changes?
                                            >>>
                                            >>> A
                                            >>>
                                            >>> ---------
                                            >>> Aleksandr Andreev
                                            >>> Intern, St Petersburg State University
                                            >>> School of Management
                                            >>>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.