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Fate of Bishop Evtikhy

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  • akomendantov
    For those who were wondering where Bp. Evtikhy would fit in after restoration of Eucharistic communion with the MP, Interfax is reporting the following news
    Message 1 of 26 , May 16, 2007
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      For those who were wondering where Bp. Evtikhy would fit in after
      restoration of Eucharistic communion with the MP, Interfax is reporting
      the following news from the special session of the MP Synod held today:

      Êðîìå òîãî, êàê ñîîáùàåò ïðåññ-ñëóæáà Ìîñêîâñêîé ïàòðèàðõèè, íà
      ñåãîäíÿøíåì çàñåäàíèè Ñèíîäà áûë âûáðàí àðõèåðåé, êîòîðîìó ïîðó÷åíî
      âðåìåííîå àðõèïàñòûðñêîå îêîðìëåíèå áûâøèõ ïðèõîäîâ Ðóññêîé çàðóáåæíîé
      öåðêâè â Ðîññèè, - èì ñòàë åïèñêîï Åâòèõèé (Êóðî÷êèí), êîòîðûé îòíûíå
      áóäåò èìåíîâàòüñÿ åïèñêîïîì Äîìîäåäîâñêèì, âèêàðèåì Ìîñêîâñêîé åïàðõèè.

      In addition, as the press service of the MP is announcing, at today's
      session of the Synod a bishop was elected and charged with providing
      temporary archpastoral care of the former parishes of the Russian
      Church Abroad in Russia -- he is Bishop Evtikhy (Kurochkin), who from
      today will have the title of Bishop of Domodedovo, a Vicar in the
      Diocese of Moscow.


      Andrew Komendantov
    • Athanasios Jayne
      English?
      Message 2 of 26 , May 16, 2007
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        English?

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "akomendantov"
        <akomendantov@...> wrote:
        >
        > For those who were wondering where Bp. Evtikhy would fit in after
        > restoration of Eucharistic communion with the MP, Interfax is reporting
        > the following news from the special session of the MP Synod held today:
        >
        > Êðîìå òîãî, êàê ñîîáùàåò ïðåññ-ñëóæáà Ìîñêîâñêîé ïàòðèàðõèè, íà
        > ñåãîäíÿøíåì çàñåäàíèè Ñèíîäà áûë âûáðàí àðõèåðåé, êîòîðîìó ïîðó÷åíî
        > âðåìåííîå àðõèïàñòûðñêîå îêîðìëåíèå áûâøèõ ïðèõîäîâ Ðóññêîé çàðóáåæíîé
        > öåðêâè â Ðîññèè, - èì ñòàë åïèñêîï Åâòèõèé (Êóðî÷êèí), êîòîðûé îòíûíå
        > áóäåò èìåíîâàòüñÿ åïèñêîïîì Äîìîäåäîâñêèì, âèêàðèåì Ìîñêîâñêîé åïàðõèè.
        >
        > In addition, as the press service of the MP is announcing, at today's
        > session of the Synod a bishop was elected and charged with providing
        > temporary archpastoral care of the former parishes of the Russian
        > Church Abroad in Russia -- he is Bishop Evtikhy (Kurochkin), who from
        > today will have the title of Bishop of Domodedovo, a Vicar in the
        > Diocese of Moscow.
        >
        >
        > Andrew Komendantov
        >
      • akomendantov
        The last paragraph is my English translation of the Russian para. Should have put in quotes. ak ... reporting ... ïîðó÷åíî ... çàðóáåæíîé ...
        Message 3 of 26 , May 16, 2007
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          The last paragraph is my English translation of the Russian para.
          Should have put in quotes.

          ak


          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne"
          <athanasiosj@...> wrote:
          >
          > English?
          >
          > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "akomendantov"
          > <akomendantov@> wrote:
          > >
          > > For those who were wondering where Bp. Evtikhy would fit in after
          > > restoration of Eucharistic communion with the MP, Interfax is
          reporting
          > > the following news from the special session of the MP Synod held
          today:
          > >
          > > Êðîìå òîãî, êàê ñîîáùàåò ïðåññ-ñëóæáà Ìîñêîâñêîé ïàòðèàðõèè, íà
          > > ñåãîäíÿøíåì çàñåäàíèè Ñèíîäà áûë âûáðàí àðõèåðåé, êîòîðîìó
          ïîðó÷åíî
          > > âðåìåííîå àðõèïàñòûðñêîå îêîðìëåíèå áûâøèõ ïðèõîäîâ Ðóññêîé
          çàðóáåæíîé
          > > öåðêâè â Ðîññèè, - èì ñòàë åïèñêîï Åâòèõèé (Êóðî÷êèí), êîòîðûé
          îòíûíå
          > > áóäåò èìåíîâàòüñÿ åïèñêîïîì Äîìîäåäîâñêèì, âèêàðèåì Ìîñêîâñêîé
          åïàðõèè.
          > >
          > > In addition, as the press service of the MP is announcing, at
          today's
          > > session of the Synod a bishop was elected and charged with
          providing
          > > temporary archpastoral care of the former parishes of the Russian
          > > Church Abroad in Russia -- he is Bishop Evtikhy (Kurochkin), who
          from
          > > today will have the title of Bishop of Domodedovo, a Vicar in the
          > > Diocese of Moscow.
          > >
          > >
          > > Andrew Komendantov
          > >
          >
        • Valentina
          Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know what about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes, such as in Europe :
          Message 4 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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            Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know what about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes, such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in Paris etc...?

            akomendantov <akomendantov@...> a écrit : For those who were wondering where Bp. Evtikhy would fit in after
            restoration of Eucharistic communion with the MP, Interfax is reporting
            the following news from the special session of the MP Synod held today:

            Êðîìå òîãî, êàê ñîîáùàåò ïðåññ-ñëóæáà Ìîñêîâñêîé ïàòðèàðõèè, íà
            ñåãîäíÿøíåì çàñåäàíèè Ñèíîäà áûë âûáðàí àðõèåðåé, êîòîðîìó ïîðó÷åíî
            âðåìåííîå àðõèïàñòûðñêîå îêîðìëåíèå áûâøèõ ïðèõîäîâ Ðóññêîé çàðóáåæíîé
            öåðêâè â Ðîññèè, - èì ñòàë åïèñêîï Åâòèõèé (Êóðî÷êèí), êîòîðûé îòíûíå
            áóäåò èìåíîâàòüñÿ åïèñêîïîì Äîìîäåäîâñêèì, âèêàðèåì Ìîñêîâñêîé åïàðõèè.

            In addition, as the press service of the MP is announcing, at today's
            session of the Synod a bishop was elected and charged with providing
            temporary archpastoral care of the former parishes of the Russian
            Church Abroad in Russia -- he is Bishop Evtikhy (Kurochkin), who from
            today will have the title of Bishop of Domodedovo, a Vicar in the
            Diocese of Moscow.

            Andrew Komendantov




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          • morechoff@aol.com
            I believe Archbishop Mark mentioned recently in an interview that those are decisions that will be taken up in future joint Synod meetings the first one
            Message 5 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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              I believe Archbishop Mark mentioned recently in an interview that those are decisions that will be taken up in future joint Synod meetings the first one being this fall.


              For example, there are two bishops (one MP; one ROCOR) of Berlin and Germany so he is directly affected.

              Michael Orechoff




              -----Original Message-----
              From: Valentina <valioucha@...>
              To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, 22 May 2007 2:34 am
              Subject: RE : [orthodox-synod] Fate of Bishop Evtikhy







              Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know what about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes, such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in Paris etc...?

              akomendantov <akomendantov@...> a écrit : For those who were wondering where Bp. Evtikhy would fit in after
              restoration of Eucharistic communion with the MP, Interfax is reporting
              the following news from the special session of the MP Synod held today:

              Êðîìå òîãî, êàê ñîîáùàåò ïðåññ-ñëóæáà Ìîñêîâñêîé ïàòðèàðõèè, íà
              ñåãîäíÿøíåì çàñåäàíèè Ñèíîäà áûë âûáðàí àðõèåðåé, êîòîðîìó ïîðó÷åíî
              âðåìåííîå àðõèïàñòûðñêîå îêîðìëåíèå áûâøèõ ïðèõîäîâ Ðóññêîé çàðóáåæíîé
              öåðêâè â Ðîññèè, - èì ñòàë åïèñêîï Åâòèõèé (Êóðî÷êèí), êîòîðûé îòíûíå
              áóäåò èìåíîâàòüñÿ åïèñêîïîì Äîìîäåäîâñêèì, âèêàðèåì Ìîñêîâñêîé åïàðõèè.

              In addition, as the press service of the MP is announcing, at today's
              session of the Synod a bishop was elected and charged with providing
              temporary archpastoral care of the former parishes of the Russian
              Church Abroad in Russia -- he is Bishop Evtikhy (Kurochkin), who from
              today will have the title of Bishop of Domodedovo, a Vicar in the
              Diocese of Moscow.

              Andrew Komendantov



              ---------------------------------
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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            • akomendantov
              ... about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes, such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in Paris etc...? A
              Message 6 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Valentina <valioucha@...> wrote:
                >
                > Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know what
                about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes,
                such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in
                Paris etc...?

                A special joint commission has been formed to discuss specifically the
                future of this situation, represented by Abp. Mark on the ROCOR side.
                Among the 30+ issues already on the agenda, according to Abp. Mark, is
                the resolution of such problematic issues as 2 Bishops of Berlin, etc.
                Working sessions are due to begin shortly. How things will be resolved
                (or not), I wouldn't begin to speculate.


                Andrew Komendantov
              • Carol Surgant
                ... about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes, such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in Paris etc...? ...
                Message 7 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Valentina <valioucha@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know what
                  about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes,
                  such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in
                  Paris etc...?
                  >

                  Greetings in the name of Christ Who has ascended!

                  It's far to early to expect such changes. Many of the travellers to
                  Russia have not returned yet, and are using this trip to also visit
                  around Russia. It seems nothing moves quickly in Orthodoxy, so I
                  expect it might take quite a few years to resolve the question of
                  overlapping dioceses. Perhaps it will happen gradually as individual
                  Bishops retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP
                  Bishop and join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa.

                  This is a situation where authority and oversight from Moscow will be
                  needed. After all, Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't suggest to the local MP
                  Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and I'll take over your
                  parishes"

                  What will help bring us together is if ROCOR members begin to reach
                  out to those in MP parishes. If we can end the competition and name
                  calling and begin to cooperate together in Christian love, this will
                  be a good start.

                  As in secular life, it's a good idea to go out to dinner more than
                  once together, before you invite someone to permanently live in your
                  house. : )

                  In Christ,
                  Carol Surgant
                • gene703
                  Carol, you say ..... it will happen gradually as individual Bishops retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP Bishop and join a ROCOR
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                    Carol,

                    you say>> ..... it will happen gradually as individual Bishops retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP Bishop and join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa ..... Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't suggest to the local MP Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and I'll take over your parishes"

                    well, this is not really a McDonad franchise issue and I think there is a much simpler way of settling this - just ask yourself WHAT WOULD JESUS DO ? I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New York to get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the 97th street sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop worshiping in the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real looking church on Sundays.

                    yours in Christ
                    Gene T

                    Carol Surgant <casurgant@...> wrote:
                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Valentina <valioucha@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know what
                    about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes,
                    such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in
                    Paris etc...?
                    >

                    Greetings in the name of Christ Who has ascended!

                    It's far to early to expect such changes. Many of the travellers to
                    Russia have not returned yet, and are using this trip to also visit
                    around Russia. It seems nothing moves quickly in Orthodoxy, so I
                    expect it might take quite a few years to resolve the question of
                    overlapping dioceses. Perhaps it will happen gradually as individual
                    Bishops retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP
                    Bishop and join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa.

                    This is a situation where authority and oversight from Moscow will be
                    needed. After all, Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't suggest to the local MP
                    Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and I'll take over your
                    parishes"

                    What will help bring us together is if ROCOR members begin to reach
                    out to those in MP parishes. If we can end the competition and name
                    calling and begin to cooperate together in Christian love, this will
                    be a good start.

                    As in secular life, it's a good idea to go out to dinner more than
                    once together, before you invite someone to permanently live in your
                    house. : )

                    In Christ,
                    Carol Surgant






                    ---------------------------------
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                    Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

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                  • Theodora
                    ... snip Don t quiet understand the above. Now that ROCOR/MP are one in unity what is to stop those going to a real looking church if they want to? And
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                      > well, this is not really a McDonad franchise issue and I think there is a
                      > much simpler way of settling this - just ask yourself WHAT WOULD JESUS DO
                      > ? I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New York to
                      > get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the 97th street
                      > sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop worshiping in
                      > the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real looking
                      > church on Sundays.
                      >
                      > yours in Christ
                      > Gene T
                      snip

                      Don't quiet understand the above. Now that ROCOR/MP are one in unity what
                      is to stop those going to a "real looking church" if they want to? And does
                      a "real looking church" mean is more a church than the "ex-living room"
                      (remember the house churches in the NT?) I guess I don't get your post about
                      "Micky D's"

                      Theodora in The Mountains
                    • boulia_1
                      Hey, I like the city mansion (it s more than a townhouse, Gene) and where the main church is was a ballroom, not the living room. But you re now free to go to
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                        Hey, I like the city mansion (it's more than a townhouse, Gene) and
                        where the main church is was a ballroom, not the living room. But
                        you're now free to go to 97th Street any time you please! BTW, Bp
                        Merkuriy will probably be there... he was on the flight back with
                        us, sitting at the very back of the plane, humbly, near the toilets,
                        until he got hot chocolate spilled on him and one of our matushki
                        suggested to the flight attendants that he ought to get moved up to
                        business class.

                        ELizabeth Ledkovsky



                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Carol,
                        >
                        > you say>> ..... it will happen gradually as individual Bishops
                        retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP Bishop and
                        join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa ..... Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't
                        suggest to the local MP Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and
                        I'll take over your parishes"
                        >
                        > well, this is not really a McDonad franchise issue and I think
                        there is a much simpler way of settling this - just ask yourself WHAT
                        WOULD JESUS DO ? I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp.
                        Mercury of New York to get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over
                        the keys to the 97th street sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor
                        immigrants can finaly stop worshiping in the townhouse ex-living room
                        on east 93rd and like go to a real looking church on Sundays.
                        >
                        > yours in Christ
                        > Gene T
                        >
                        > Carol Surgant <casurgant@...> wrote:
                        > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Valentina
                        <valioucha@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know
                        what
                        > about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes,
                        > such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in
                        > Paris etc...?
                        > >
                        >
                        > Greetings in the name of Christ Who has ascended!
                        >
                        > It's far to early to expect such changes. Many of the travellers to
                        > Russia have not returned yet, and are using this trip to also visit
                        > around Russia. It seems nothing moves quickly in Orthodoxy, so I
                        > expect it might take quite a few years to resolve the question of
                        > overlapping dioceses. Perhaps it will happen gradually as
                        individual
                        > Bishops retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP
                        > Bishop and join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa.
                        >
                        > This is a situation where authority and oversight from Moscow will
                        be
                        > needed. After all, Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't suggest to the local
                        MP
                        > Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and I'll take over your
                        > parishes"
                        >
                        > What will help bring us together is if ROCOR members begin to reach
                        > out to those in MP parishes. If we can end the competition and name
                        > calling and begin to cooperate together in Christian love, this
                        will
                        > be a good start.
                        >
                        > As in secular life, it's a good idea to go out to dinner more than
                        > once together, before you invite someone to permanently live in
                        your
                        > house. : )
                        >
                        > In Christ,
                        > Carol Surgant
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
                        who knows.
                        > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Anna Voellmecke
                        ... This very Protestant statement is inevitably followed by the writer s assuming that *he*, not his interlocutor, knows what Jesus would do. (Not the
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                          At 05:25 PM 5/22/2007, you wrote:


                          > - just ask yourself WHAT WOULD JESUS DO ?

                          This very Protestant statement is inevitably followed by the writer's
                          assuming that *he*, not his interlocutor, knows what Jesus would do.
                          (Not the thinking of a mature Orthodox mind.) So, of course, the next
                          thing Gene says is:

                          >I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New York
                          >to get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the
                          >97th street sobor to ROCOR,

                          Uh-huh. And why does Gene think *Jesus* would think that way? Is Gene
                          really so lost in his need to believe in his own church/political
                          agenda that he can't see, even on the surface, how silly and
                          childishly arrogant it is to believe that Jesus would think like him?

                          I'm glad Gene writes here. It shows how right those who worked for
                          the restoration of our relationship with the MP have been.

                          Anna V.
                        • George
                          ... i ve never been to the rocor church nearby the mp 97th street parish. we ve passed by it but it never seemed open. George
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                            On Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 11:03PM, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...> wrote:
                            >Hey, I like the city mansion (it's more than a townhouse, Gene) and
                            >where the main church is was a ballroom, not the living room. But
                            >you're now free to go to 97th Street any time you please! BTW, Bp
                            >Merkuriy will probably be there... he was on the flight back with
                            >us, sitting at the very back of the plane, humbly, near the toilets,
                            >until he got hot chocolate spilled on him and one of our matushki
                            >suggested to the flight attendants that he ought to get moved up to
                            >business class.
                            >
                            >ELizabeth Ledkovsky

                            i've never been to the rocor church nearby the mp 97th street parish. we've passed by it but it never seemed open.

                            George
                          • gene703
                            Theodora, It is all about the two new york Orthodox Russian Bishops OF THE SAME church within literally 5 blocks of each other. If there is any sense of
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                              Theodora,

                              It is all about the two new york Orthodox Russian Bishops OF THE SAME church within literally 5 blocks of each other. If there is any sense of propriety or respect for the cannons left in the world somebody has got to go, NOW.

                              Gene T

                              Theodora <theomtn@...> wrote:
                              > well, this is not really a McDonad franchise issue and I think there is a
                              > much simpler way of settling this - just ask yourself WHAT WOULD JESUS DO
                              > ? I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New York to
                              > get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the 97th street
                              > sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop worshiping in
                              > the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real looking
                              > church on Sundays.
                              >
                              > yours in Christ
                              > Gene T
                              snip

                              Don't quiet understand the above. Now that ROCOR/MP are one in unity what
                              is to stop those going to a "real looking church" if they want to? And does
                              a "real looking church" mean is more a church than the "ex-living room"
                              (remember the house churches in the NT?) I guess I don't get your post about
                              "Micky D's"

                              Theodora in The Mountains






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                            • gene703
                              Hello Mrs. Ledkovsky, Welcome back, hope you had a pleasant flight and nobody spilled hot chocolate where you sat. Please tell us more stories of the visit,
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                                Hello Mrs. Ledkovsky,

                                Welcome back, hope you had a pleasant flight and nobody spilled hot chocolate where you sat. Please tell us more stories of the visit, anything you care to remember. I was dead set against the whole thing but still I am fascinated by it. This is like history going it's own way right in front of your eyes.

                                Did you see the Patriarch up close ? Did you hear him speak ? What do you think this whole thing meant to him ? Did you go anywhere else except Moscow ?

                                thanks
                                Gene T

                                boulia_1 <eledkovsky@...> wrote:
                                Hey, I like the city mansion (it's more than a townhouse, Gene) and
                                where the main church is was a ballroom, not the living room. But
                                you're now free to go to 97th Street any time you please! BTW, Bp
                                Merkuriy will probably be there... he was on the flight back with
                                us, sitting at the very back of the plane, humbly, near the toilets,
                                until he got hot chocolate spilled on him and one of our matushki
                                suggested to the flight attendants that he ought to get moved up to
                                business class.

                                ELizabeth Ledkovsky

                                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Carol,
                                >
                                > you say>> ..... it will happen gradually as individual Bishops
                                retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP Bishop and
                                join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa ..... Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't
                                suggest to the local MP Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and
                                I'll take over your parishes"
                                >
                                > well, this is not really a McDonad franchise issue and I think
                                there is a much simpler way of settling this - just ask yourself WHAT
                                WOULD JESUS DO ? I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp.
                                Mercury of New York to get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over
                                the keys to the 97th street sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor
                                immigrants can finaly stop worshiping in the townhouse ex-living room
                                on east 93rd and like go to a real looking church on Sundays.
                                >
                                > yours in Christ
                                > Gene T
                                >
                                > Carol Surgant <casurgant@...> wrote:
                                > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Valentina
                                <valioucha@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know
                                what
                                > about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR parishes,
                                > such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop in
                                > Paris etc...?
                                > >
                                >
                                > Greetings in the name of Christ Who has ascended!
                                >
                                > It's far to early to expect such changes. Many of the travellers to
                                > Russia have not returned yet, and are using this trip to also visit
                                > around Russia. It seems nothing moves quickly in Orthodoxy, so I
                                > expect it might take quite a few years to resolve the question of
                                > overlapping dioceses. Perhaps it will happen gradually as
                                individual
                                > Bishops retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP
                                > Bishop and join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa.
                                >
                                > This is a situation where authority and oversight from Moscow will
                                be
                                > needed. After all, Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't suggest to the local
                                MP
                                > Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and I'll take over your
                                > parishes"
                                >
                                > What will help bring us together is if ROCOR members begin to reach
                                > out to those in MP parishes. If we can end the competition and name
                                > calling and begin to cooperate together in Christian love, this
                                will
                                > be a good start.
                                >
                                > As in secular life, it's a good idea to go out to dinner more than
                                > once together, before you invite someone to permanently live in
                                your
                                > house. : )
                                >
                                > In Christ,
                                > Carol Surgant
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
                                who knows.
                                > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >






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                              • gene703
                                You got it right Anna, I got that protestant thing going cause years ago just about every Sunday for nearly 3 years I went to a Southern Baptist Convention
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 22, 2007
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                                  You got it right Anna,

                                  I got that protestant thing going cause years ago just about every Sunday for nearly 3 years I went to a Southern Baptist Convention mega church (1800 seating) near the post where I was stationed. Actually there were more than 30 of us from the same base that went regularly to worship and study, the church used to sent a bus to get us.

                                  When was the last time you had a heated discussion on chapter and verse with assistant pastor over several Sundays? I got to tell you - Americans are so different when it comes to believing in Jesus. They really live that stuff - 24/7. Other than these 3 years I was always a good orthodox boy and I was actually very proud of everything ROCOR stood for.

                                  Why do I think I know what Jesus would do ? Because I was taught how to apply this mental construct to different situations in life justifying my decision with chapter and verse. Not very orthodox, is it ?

                                  GT


                                  At 05:25 PM 5/22/2007, you wrote:

                                  > - just ask yourself WHAT WOULD JESUS DO ?

                                  This very Protestant statement is inevitably followed by the writer's
                                  assuming that *he*, not his interlocutor, knows what Jesus would do.
                                  (Not the thinking of a mature Orthodox mind.) So, of course, the next
                                  thing Gene says is:

                                  >I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New York
                                  >to get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the
                                  >97th street sobor to ROCOR,

                                  Uh-huh. And why does Gene think *Jesus* would think that way? Is Gene
                                  really so lost in his need to believe in his own church/political
                                  agenda that he can't see, even on the surface, how silly and
                                  childishly arrogant it is to believe that Jesus would think like him?

                                  I'm glad Gene writes here. It shows how right those who worked for
                                  the restoration of our relationship with the MP have been.

                                  Anna V.






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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • boulia_1
                                  Hey, the canons are meant to create order, not disorder, and all the weird overlaps that historical circumstances will get ironed out eventually. Peace!!
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                    Hey, the canons are meant to create order, not disorder, and all the
                                    weird overlaps that historical circumstances will get ironed out
                                    eventually. Peace!!

                                    -Elizabeth Ledkovsky

                                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Theodora,
                                    >
                                    > It is all about the two new york Orthodox Russian Bishops OF THE
                                    SAME church within literally 5 blocks of each other. If there is any
                                    sense of propriety or respect for the cannons left in the world
                                    somebody has got to go, NOW.
                                    >
                                    > Gene T
                                    >
                                    > Theodora <theomtn@...> wrote:
                                    > > well, this is not really a McDonad franchise issue and
                                    I think there is a
                                    > > much simpler way of settling this - just ask yourself WHAT WOULD
                                    JESUS DO
                                    > > ? I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New
                                    York to
                                    > > get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the
                                    97th street
                                    > > sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop
                                    worshiping in
                                    > > the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real
                                    looking
                                    > > church on Sundays.
                                    > >
                                    > > yours in Christ
                                    > > Gene T
                                    > snip
                                    >
                                    > Don't quiet understand the above. Now that ROCOR/MP are one in
                                    unity what
                                    > is to stop those going to a "real looking church" if they want to?
                                    And does
                                    > a "real looking church" mean is more a church than the "ex-living
                                    room"
                                    > (remember the house churches in the NT?) I guess I don't get your
                                    post about
                                    > "Micky D's"
                                    >
                                    > Theodora in The Mountains
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ---------------------------------
                                    > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                    > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Theodora
                                    ... snip Ah, yes, but that is the point: not who has a grand church building or meets in a house. : ) Theodora in The Mountains
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                      > Theodora,
                                      >
                                      > It is all about the two new york Orthodox Russian Bishops OF THE SAME
                                      > church within literally 5 blocks of each other. If there is any sense of
                                      > propriety or respect for the cannons left in the world somebody has got to
                                      > go, NOW.
                                      >
                                      > Gene T

                                      snip

                                      Ah, yes, but that is the point: not who has a grand church building or meets
                                      in a house. :>)

                                      Theodora in The Mountains
                                    • DDD
                                      On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:55:23 -0000, (I can t figure out whether Theodora or GeneT) wrote:  I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New York
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                        On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:55:23 -0000, (I can't figure out whether Theodora or GeneT) wrote:

                                         I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New York to
                                         get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the 97th
                                         street
                                         sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop
                                         worshiping in
                                         the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real
                                         looking church on Sundays.
                                        _______________________________

                                        Sort of missing the point of the reUNIFICATION, aren't we? You can go right now to 97th Street and worship there--in English (on Sunday mornings), without putting Bishop Mercury on a plane :)
                                        St. Nicholas Cathedral was built in 1902; its iconostas was dedicated in 1904 by St. [then] Archbishop [later, Patriarch] Tikhon. So, it pre-dates ROCOR! Tsar-Martyr Nicholas made the first donation to its building fund. It would take a little "huztpah," wouldn't it, for the newcomers (ROCOR) to kick out the original builders (ROC-Russia)?
                                        But wanting to kick someone else out and use their property smacks of communist doings! That's a no-no, because this cathedral was staunchly anti-communist, until the New York courts handed over the cathedral to the communist faction in the '20's!! Yes, good ol' America. Thank goodness communism has fallen.
                                        Since you refer to yourself as a "poor immigrant," remember who built this magnificent cathedral: poor immigrants! If you don't like worshipping with them, then I guess you could imitate them and start a building fund for a new cathedral of your own in Manhattan. Too expensive? Well, thank goodness, the communist years are gone, there is a new bishop there, it isn't "them" vs. "us" any more, so save yourself some money on a building fund and go, enjoy the cathedral!

                                        --Dimitra Dwelley
                                      • V. Boitchenko
                                        Gene, I think Bp. Mercury s title is Bishop of Zaraisk (not New York or Manhattan) and he is the Patriarchal representative in the US taking care only of some
                                        Message 19 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                          Gene,

                                          I think Bp. Mercury's title is Bishop of Zaraisk (not New York or Manhattan) and he is the Patriarchal representative in the US taking care only of some 35 parishes that chose to remain under the MP. So, technically it is not an overlapping jurisdiction. For example, historically in Russia the title of the rector of the St.Petersburg Academy has been Bishop of Tikhvin (a small town outside of SPb) in the jurisdiction of the Metropolitan of St. Petersburg. So, leave the canons alone.

                                          viatcheslav



                                          >It is all about the two new york Orthodox Russian Bishops OF THE SAME church within literally 5 blocks of each other. If there is any sense of propriety >or respect for the cannons left in the world somebody has got to go, NOW.
                                          >Gene T



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • michael nikitin
                                          Bishop Gavriil is going to be sent to another city, but not Bishop Mercury. There shouldn t be any reason for the MP to have parishes in America now that
                                          Message 20 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                            Bishop Gavriil is going to be sent to another city, but not
                                            Bishop Mercury.

                                            There shouldn't be any reason for the MP to have parishes in
                                            America now that ROCOR/MP are one.

                                            I guess DDD did not hear that Russian Synod building is in the
                                            plan to be sold. For the time being, Fr. Victor Patapov is going
                                            to take over as a priest in Synod of NY. Priests Synod will be
                                            moved - there are a lot of vacancies now since so many of the
                                            priests in MP ROCOR left for other jurisdictions because of
                                            ROCOR's union with MP.

                                            16 priests just from USA have recently joined B. Agafangel. Some
                                            left for Bishop Tikhon and even to Fili.

                                            MP ROCOR(L) is in the process of buying a place in Washington DC
                                            from Episcopalians for a couple of millions.

                                            Michael N


                                            DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                                            On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:55:23 -0000, (I can't figure out whether
                                            Theodora or GeneT) wrote:

                                            I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New
                                            York to
                                            get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the
                                            97th
                                            street
                                            sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop
                                            worshiping in
                                            the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real
                                            looking church on Sundays.
                                            ____________ _________ _________ _

                                            Sort of missing the point of the reUNIFICATION, aren't we? You
                                            can go right now to 97th Street and worship there--in English (on
                                            Sunday mornings), without putting Bishop Mercury on a plane :)
                                            St. Nicholas Cathedral was built in 1902; its iconostas was
                                            dedicated in 1904 by St. [then] Archbishop [later, Patriarch]
                                            Tikhon. So, it pre-dates ROCOR! Tsar-Martyr Nicholas made the
                                            first donation to its building fund. It would take a little
                                            "huztpah," wouldn't it, for the newcomers (ROCOR) to kick out the
                                            original builders (ROC-Russia) ?
                                            But wanting to kick someone else out and use their property
                                            smacks of communist doings! That's a no-no, because this
                                            cathedral was staunchly anti-communist, until the New York courts
                                            handed over the cathedral to the communist faction in the '20's!!
                                            Yes, good ol' America. Thank goodness communism has fallen.
                                            Since you refer to yourself as a "poor immigrant," remember who
                                            built this magnificent cathedral: poor immigrants! If you don't
                                            like worshipping with them, then I guess you could imitate them
                                            and start a building fund for a new cathedral of your own in
                                            Manhattan. Too expensive? Well, thank goodness, the communist
                                            years are gone, there is a new bishop there, it isn't "them" vs.
                                            "us" any more, so save yourself some money on a building fund and
                                            go, enjoy the cathedral!

                                            --Dimitra Dwelley




                                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                            Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                                            http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                                          • DDD
                                            On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:03:40 -0400, Theodora wrote: Ah, yes, but that is the point: not who has a grand church building or meets in a house. : ) Theodora in
                                            Message 21 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                              On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:03:40 -0400, Theodora wrote:

                                              Ah, yes, but that is the point: not who has a grand church building or meets
                                              in a house. :>)

                                              Theodora in The Mountains
                                              ___________________________________________________________

                                              "Or," Theodora? It's not either/or any more--*that* is the point. It's not "us" vs. "them" any more.

                                              --Dimitra Dwelley
                                            • Theodora
                                              Oh my dear, you do choose to misunderstand. The point was: it is not about HOUSES vs CHURCHES....i.e. the building makes the Faith. (sigh) We are so quick to
                                              Message 22 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                                Oh my dear, you do choose to misunderstand. The point was: it is not about
                                                HOUSES vs CHURCHES....i.e. the building makes the Faith. (sigh) We are so
                                                quick to jump and well, you know. LOL Goodness.

                                                Theodora in The Mountains

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "DDD" <dimitradd@...>
                                                To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:28 PM
                                                Subject: Re: RE : [orthodox-synod] Fate of overlapping Bishops


                                                On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:03:40 -0400, Theodora wrote:

                                                Ah, yes, but that is the point: not who has a grand church building or
                                                meets
                                                in a house. :>)

                                                Theodora in The Mountains
                                                ___________________________________________________________

                                                "Or," Theodora? It's not either/or any more--*that* is the point. It's
                                                not "us" vs. "them" any more.

                                                --Dimitra Dwelley
                                              • vlutchenkov
                                                Michael, This posting is one of your best!!! Ever consider writing fairy tales? Where do you get your facts?!?! Please support your following statements with
                                                Message 23 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                                  Michael,

                                                  This posting is one of your best!!! Ever consider writing fairy
                                                  tales? Where do you get your facts?!?!

                                                  Please support your following statements with actual facts.

                                                  1) Bishop Gavriil is going to be sent to another city, but not
                                                  Bishop Mercury. (Who told you?)

                                                  2)There shouldn't be any reason for the MP to have parishes in
                                                  America now that ROCOR/MP are one. (Here you are wrong for another
                                                  reason, but why ruin it with another perspective.)

                                                  3) I guess DDD did not hear that Russian Synod building is in the
                                                  plan to be sold. For the time being, Fr. Victor Patapov is going
                                                  to take over as a priest in Synod of NY. Priests Synod will be
                                                  moved - there are a lot of vacancies now since so many of the
                                                  priests in MP ROCOR left for other jurisdictions because of ROCOR's
                                                  union with MP. (This one just desrves "Huh????" Facts please)

                                                  4) 16 priests just from USA have recently joined B. Agafangel. Some
                                                  left for Bishop Tikhon and even to Fili. (Okay I will grant you
                                                  this one but the numbers change.)

                                                  5) MP ROCOR(L) is in the process of buying a place in Washington DC
                                                  from Episcopalians for a couple of millions. (My goodness can't you
                                                  even get the rumor correct!!?? Or do you have new super duper
                                                  secret info?)

                                                  Thank you for your posting it certainly got me to laugh during an
                                                  otherwise tough day.

                                                  Vova L


                                                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                                  <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Bishop Gavriil is going to be sent to another city, but not
                                                  > Bishop Mercury.
                                                  >
                                                  > There shouldn't be any reason for the MP to have parishes in
                                                  > America now that ROCOR/MP are one.
                                                  >
                                                  > I guess DDD did not hear that Russian Synod building is in the
                                                  > plan to be sold. For the time being, Fr. Victor Patapov is going
                                                  > to take over as a priest in Synod of NY. Priests Synod will be
                                                  > moved - there are a lot of vacancies now since so many of the
                                                  > priests in MP ROCOR left for other jurisdictions because of
                                                  > ROCOR's union with MP.
                                                  >
                                                  > 16 priests just from USA have recently joined B. Agafangel. Some
                                                  > left for Bishop Tikhon and even to Fili.
                                                  >
                                                  > MP ROCOR(L) is in the process of buying a place in Washington DC
                                                  > from Episcopalians for a couple of millions.
                                                  >
                                                  > Michael N
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                                                  > On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:55:23 -0000, (I can't figure out whether
                                                  > Theodora or GeneT) wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New
                                                  > York to
                                                  > get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the
                                                  > 97th
                                                  > street
                                                  > sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop
                                                  > worshiping in
                                                  > the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real
                                                  > looking church on Sundays.
                                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _
                                                  >
                                                  > Sort of missing the point of the reUNIFICATION, aren't we? You
                                                  > can go right now to 97th Street and worship there--in English (on
                                                  > Sunday mornings), without putting Bishop Mercury on a plane :)
                                                  > St. Nicholas Cathedral was built in 1902; its iconostas was
                                                  > dedicated in 1904 by St. [then] Archbishop [later, Patriarch]
                                                  > Tikhon. So, it pre-dates ROCOR! Tsar-Martyr Nicholas made the
                                                  > first donation to its building fund. It would take a little
                                                  > "huztpah," wouldn't it, for the newcomers (ROCOR) to kick out the
                                                  > original builders (ROC-Russia) ?
                                                  > But wanting to kick someone else out and use their property
                                                  > smacks of communist doings! That's a no-no, because this
                                                  > cathedral was staunchly anti-communist, until the New York courts
                                                  > handed over the cathedral to the communist faction in the '20's!!
                                                  > Yes, good ol' America. Thank goodness communism has fallen.
                                                  > Since you refer to yourself as a "poor immigrant," remember who
                                                  > built this magnificent cathedral: poor immigrants! If you don't
                                                  > like worshipping with them, then I guess you could imitate them
                                                  > and start a building fund for a new cathedral of your own in
                                                  > Manhattan. Too expensive? Well, thank goodness, the communist
                                                  > years are gone, there is a new bishop there, it isn't "them" vs.
                                                  > "us" any more, so save yourself some money on a building fund and
                                                  > go, enjoy the cathedral!
                                                  >
                                                  > --Dimitra Dwelley
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  _____________________________________________________________________
                                                  _______________
                                                  > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
                                                  vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                                                  > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                                                  >
                                                • misha.1947
                                                  MP ROCOR(L)? That s rich! Where do people get these weird terms? It s the Russian Orthodox Church. Period. ... vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                                    MP ROCOR(L)?

                                                    That's rich! Where do people get these weird terms?

                                                    It's the Russian Orthodox Church. Period.




                                                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                                    <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Bishop Gavriil is going to be sent to another city, but not
                                                    > Bishop Mercury.
                                                    >
                                                    > There shouldn't be any reason for the MP to have parishes in
                                                    > America now that ROCOR/MP are one.
                                                    >
                                                    > I guess DDD did not hear that Russian Synod building is in the
                                                    > plan to be sold. For the time being, Fr. Victor Patapov is going
                                                    > to take over as a priest in Synod of NY. Priests Synod will be
                                                    > moved - there are a lot of vacancies now since so many of the
                                                    > priests in MP ROCOR left for other jurisdictions because of
                                                    > ROCOR's union with MP.
                                                    >
                                                    > 16 priests just from USA have recently joined B. Agafangel. Some
                                                    > left for Bishop Tikhon and even to Fili.
                                                    >
                                                    > MP ROCOR(L) is in the process of buying a place in Washington DC
                                                    > from Episcopalians for a couple of millions.
                                                    >
                                                    > Michael N
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                                                    > On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:55:23 -0000, (I can't figure out whether
                                                    > Theodora or GeneT) wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp. Mercury of New
                                                    > York to
                                                    > get on the next plane to Moscow and turn over the keys to the
                                                    > 97th
                                                    > street
                                                    > sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor immigrants can finaly stop
                                                    > worshiping in
                                                    > the townhouse ex-living room on east 93rd and like go to a real
                                                    > looking church on Sundays.
                                                    > ____________ _________ _________ _
                                                    >
                                                    > Sort of missing the point of the reUNIFICATION, aren't we? You
                                                    > can go right now to 97th Street and worship there--in English (on
                                                    > Sunday mornings), without putting Bishop Mercury on a plane :)
                                                    > St. Nicholas Cathedral was built in 1902; its iconostas was
                                                    > dedicated in 1904 by St. [then] Archbishop [later, Patriarch]
                                                    > Tikhon. So, it pre-dates ROCOR! Tsar-Martyr Nicholas made the
                                                    > first donation to its building fund. It would take a little
                                                    > "huztpah," wouldn't it, for the newcomers (ROCOR) to kick out the
                                                    > original builders (ROC-Russia) ?
                                                    > But wanting to kick someone else out and use their property
                                                    > smacks of communist doings! That's a no-no, because this
                                                    > cathedral was staunchly anti-communist, until the New York courts
                                                    > handed over the cathedral to the communist faction in the '20's!!
                                                    > Yes, good ol' America. Thank goodness communism has fallen.
                                                    > Since you refer to yourself as a "poor immigrant," remember who
                                                    > built this magnificent cathedral: poor immigrants! If you don't
                                                    > like worshipping with them, then I guess you could imitate them
                                                    > and start a building fund for a new cathedral of your own in
                                                    > Manhattan. Too expensive? Well, thank goodness, the communist
                                                    > years are gone, there is a new bishop there, it isn't "them" vs.
                                                    > "us" any more, so save yourself some money on a building fund and
                                                    > go, enjoy the cathedral!
                                                    >
                                                    > --Dimitra Dwelley
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                                    > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
                                                    vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                                                    > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                                                    >
                                                  • boulia_1
                                                    Hi Gene, It was fascinating. Flight was very pleasant, thanks, nothing spilled expect maybe a few beans here and there... I saw the Patriarch very up close at
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , May 23, 2007
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                                                      Hi Gene,

                                                      It was fascinating. Flight was very pleasant, thanks, nothing spilled
                                                      expect maybe a few beans here and there...

                                                      I saw the Patriarch very up close at Butovo, where he performed the
                                                      Great Consecration of the beautiful new church he had built there.
                                                      And I got to attend lunch with him after that, during which he got a
                                                      bit choked up about the day's events: my impression of him is very
                                                      different now than it had been before, and not one that photos
                                                      convey. It made me believe that this whole thing is very personally
                                                      meaningful to him -- he devoted a great deal of physical energy, for
                                                      sure, and spiritual and emotional energy apparently, to all the
                                                      events of the week, and also displayed much personal kindness and
                                                      consideration to Met. Laurus (this I know from conversations with our
                                                      Metropolitan's subdeacon, my good friend...).

                                                      The schedule was so busy that there was little time or energy for
                                                      excursions, but I did get to Sergiev Posad. Unfortunately I (duh!)
                                                      missed the bus and had to find my way there alone, which led to the
                                                      classic experience of being a single woman on the electric train at
                                                      high noon, getting hit on (and later fallen on) by a totally-drunk
                                                      Russian man. Russian toilets still stink and the sidewalks in most
                                                      areas are still broken and dirty, but anyone who was there cannot
                                                      deny that the Church was NOT defeated, in the end, by Satanic
                                                      communism. Anyone who wants to argue otherwise would do well to shiut
                                                      up and go to Butovo to pray in that church built upon bloodstained
                                                      soil of thousands of martyrs, who are being individually remembered
                                                      at this Church...


                                                      Elizabeth Ledkovsky




                                                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Hello Mrs. Ledkovsky,
                                                      >
                                                      > Welcome back, hope you had a pleasant flight and nobody spilled
                                                      hot chocolate where you sat. Please tell us more stories of the
                                                      visit, anything you care to remember. I was dead set against the
                                                      whole thing but still I am fascinated by it. This is like history
                                                      going it's own way right in front of your eyes.
                                                      >
                                                      > Did you see the Patriarch up close ? Did you hear him speak ?
                                                      What do you think this whole thing meant to him ? Did you go anywhere
                                                      else except Moscow ?
                                                      >
                                                      > thanks
                                                      > Gene T
                                                      >
                                                      > boulia_1 <eledkovsky@...> wrote:
                                                      > Hey, I like the city mansion (it's more than a townhouse,
                                                      Gene) and
                                                      > where the main church is was a ballroom, not the living room. But
                                                      > you're now free to go to 97th Street any time you please! BTW, Bp
                                                      > Merkuriy will probably be there... he was on the flight back with
                                                      > us, sitting at the very back of the plane, humbly, near the
                                                      toilets,
                                                      > until he got hot chocolate spilled on him and one of our matushki
                                                      > suggested to the flight attendants that he ought to get moved up to
                                                      > business class.
                                                      >
                                                      > ELizabeth Ledkovsky
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Carol,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > you say>> ..... it will happen gradually as individual Bishops
                                                      > retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their MP Bishop
                                                      and
                                                      > join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa ..... Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't
                                                      > suggest to the local MP Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia,
                                                      and
                                                      > I'll take over your parishes"
                                                      > >
                                                      > > well, this is not really a McDonad franchise issue and I think
                                                      > there is a much simpler way of settling this - just ask yourself
                                                      WHAT
                                                      > WOULD JESUS DO ? I personally think that Jesus would want Bshp.
                                                      > Mercury of New York to get on the next plane to Moscow and turn
                                                      over
                                                      > the keys to the 97th street sobor to ROCOR, so that us poor
                                                      > immigrants can finaly stop worshiping in the townhouse ex-living
                                                      room
                                                      > on east 93rd and like go to a real looking church on Sundays.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > yours in Christ
                                                      > > Gene T
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Carol Surgant <casurgant@> wrote:
                                                      > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Valentina
                                                      > <valioucha@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Similar to OCA v/s ROCOR question in the USA, does anybody know
                                                      > what
                                                      > > about the MP parishes opened abroad where there are ROCOR
                                                      parishes,
                                                      > > such as in Europe : France, Switzerland; Portugal, UK, a bishop
                                                      in
                                                      > > Paris etc...?
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Greetings in the name of Christ Who has ascended!
                                                      > >
                                                      > > It's far to early to expect such changes. Many of the travellers
                                                      to
                                                      > > Russia have not returned yet, and are using this trip to also
                                                      visit
                                                      > > around Russia. It seems nothing moves quickly in Orthodoxy, so I
                                                      > > expect it might take quite a few years to resolve the question of
                                                      > > overlapping dioceses. Perhaps it will happen gradually as
                                                      > individual
                                                      > > Bishops retire, or if individual parishes choose to leave their
                                                      MP
                                                      > > Bishop and join a ROCOR diocese or vice versa.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > This is a situation where authority and oversight from Moscow
                                                      will
                                                      > be
                                                      > > needed. After all, Bp. Mark (of ROCOR) can't suggest to the local
                                                      > MP
                                                      > > Bishop "why don't you go home to Russia, and I'll take over your
                                                      > > parishes"
                                                      > >
                                                      > > What will help bring us together is if ROCOR members begin to
                                                      reach
                                                      > > out to those in MP parishes. If we can end the competition and
                                                      name
                                                      > > calling and begin to cooperate together in Christian love, this
                                                      > will
                                                      > > be a good start.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > As in secular life, it's a good idea to go out to dinner more
                                                      than
                                                      > > once together, before you invite someone to permanently live in
                                                      > your
                                                      > > house. : )
                                                      > >
                                                      > > In Christ,
                                                      > > Carol Surgant
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                                      > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
                                                      > who knows.
                                                      > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                      > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
                                                      > always stay connected to friends.
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                    • Theodora
                                                      I believe that you are getting posts confused with who wrote what, that you didn t realize that there has been no activity on this list until just now when
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Jun 4, 2007
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        I believe that you are getting posts confused with who wrote what, that you
                                                        didn't realize that there has been no activity on this list until just now
                                                        when 60+ post have showed up. Here it is 3:30 EST on the 4th of June. So be
                                                        very sure what you are reading and who sent what.

                                                        Theodora in The Mountains


                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "DDD" <dimitradd@...>
                                                        To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 12:57 AM
                                                        Subject: Re: RE : [orthodox-synod] Fate of overlapping Bishops


                                                        On Wed, 23 May 2007 12:38:05 -0400, Theodora wrote:


                                                        you do choose to misunderstand.
                                                        ___________________________________________

                                                        That's a little unkind, Theodora....
                                                        A statement about Bishop Merkury getting on a plane was right underneath
                                                        your name, and I thought you wrote it. However, it may have been Gene T who
                                                        wrote it. Please tell me the author.
                                                        Digging back a few posts, I see you did proffer the idea of anyone who
                                                        wishes to, going to 97th Street, since we are now admitting we are part of
                                                        the same church.
                                                        So, before I decide I have misunderstood: Are you happy about the
                                                        reconciliation? Would you attend church at the 97th Street Cathedral if you
                                                        lived in Manhattan?

                                                        Yours,
                                                        Dimitra
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