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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Red Candles???

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  • Stephen/Στέφανος
    Yes, father, but making red candles has to be a new tradition, an innovation; and is probably against the church canons because they most likely use an
    Message 1 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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      Yes, father, but making "red" candles has to be a new tradition, an
      innovation; and is probably against the church canons because they
      most likely use an "artificial dye" to make that color, whereas
      Orthodox candles are supposed to be made of "pure beeswax" with no
      artificial ingredients. Red paschal eggs and red (crimson)
      vestments *are* traditional.

      (I do lament that so many Greek churches in the diaspora use
      petroleum/paraffin candles, they're uncanonical, smell horrible when
      extinguished and are simply tacky!)

      Stephanos


      Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko wrote:
      >
      > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
      > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
      > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
      > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
      > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
      > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
      > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
      >
      > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
      >
      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
      > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
      > > >Christ is Risen!
      > >
      > > Truly, He is Risen!
      > >
      > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
      > candles at
      > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
      > >
      > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
      > a
      > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
      > Pentecost.
      > > It's an interesting question.
      > >
      > > Anna V.
      > > _________________________________________
      > >
      > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
      > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
      > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
      > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
      > >
      > > --Dimitra Dwelley
      > > _______________________
      > >
      >
      >
    • George
      indeed the color red has been popular in Russia long before the communists and continues to be favored. i ve also heard that krasnaya (red in Russian) in old
      Message 2 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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        indeed the color red has been popular in Russia long before the communists and continues to be favored.

        i've also heard that krasnaya (red in Russian) in old Russian could also mean beautiful or important.

        assuming that anything Russian and Red is somehow a relation to the Soviets or their Ideaology is a mistake.

        George

        On Thursday, May 03, 2007, at 04:23PM, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko" <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
        >The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
        >much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
        >beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
        >and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
        >the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
        >and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
        >maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
        >
        >Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
        >> At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
        >> >Christ is Risen!
        >>
        >> Truly, He is Risen!
        >>
        >> >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
        >candles at
        >> >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
        >>
        >> ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
        >a
        >> ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
        >Pentecost.
        >> It's an interesting question.
        >>
        >> Anna V.
        >> _________________________________________
        >>
        >> I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
        >search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
        >the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
        >crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
        >>
        >> --Dimitra Dwelley
        >> _______________________
        >>
        >
        >
        >
      • Rev Fr Mark Gilstrap
        ... communists and continues to be favored. ... also mean beautiful or important. case in point: Red Square
        Message 3 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, George <kharaku@...> wrote:
          >
          > indeed the color red has been popular in Russia long before the
          communists and continues to be favored.
          >
          > i've also heard that krasnaya (red in Russian) in old Russian could
          also mean beautiful or important.

          case in point: Red Square
        • proto@net2000.com.au
          Dear Stephanos, When the late Archbishop Anthony of San Francisco was bishop of Melbourne, i.e. 1956-1967, he always used red candles in the bishop s blessing
          Message 4 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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            Dear Stephanos,
            When the late Archbishop Anthony of San Francisco was bishop of Melbourne,
            i.e. 1956-1967, he always used red candles in the bishop's blessing
            candlesticks. Red candles were made for the parishioners on Easter Eve and the
            subdeacons and deacons wore red orarions on their white vestments. I doubt
            that this is an innovation, but something that Vladyka Anthony was particular
            about at the time. If anything, this is a Russian tradition and has nothing
            to do canonicity.
            In Christ
            Fr Michael Protopopov.

            Quoting Stephen/Στέφανος <sbuatl@...>:

            > Yes, father, but making "red" candles has to be a new tradition, an
            > innovation; and is probably against the church canons because they
            > most likely use an "artificial dye" to make that color, whereas
            > Orthodox candles are supposed to be made of "pure beeswax" with no
            > artificial ingredients. Red paschal eggs and red (crimson)
            > vestments *are* traditional.
            >
            > (I do lament that so many Greek churches in the diaspora use
            > petroleum/paraffin candles, they're uncanonical, smell horrible when
            > extinguished and are simply tacky!)
            >
            > Stephanos
            >
            >
            > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko wrote:
            > >
            > > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
            > > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
            > > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
            > > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
            > > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
            > > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
            > > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
            > >
            > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            > >
            > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
            > > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
            > > > >Christ is Risen!
            > > >
            > > > Truly, He is Risen!
            > > >
            > > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
            > > candles at
            > > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
            > > >
            > > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
            > > a
            > > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
            > > Pentecost.
            > > > It's an interesting question.
            > > >
            > > > Anna V.
            > > > _________________________________________
            > > >
            > > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
            > > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
            > > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
            > > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
            > > >
            > > > --Dimitra Dwelley
            > > > _______________________
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Carol Surgant
            ... XB! Many Russians would consider the bright red eggs (dyed with Greek ARTIFICIAL chemical dyes) to be untraditional. Traditional Russian Pascha eggs are
            Message 5 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Stephen/Στέφανος
              <sbuatl@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, father, but making "red" candles has to be a new
              >tradition, an innovation; and is probably against
              >the church canons because they most likely use an
              >"artificial dye" to make that color, whereas Orthodox
              >candles are supposed to be made of "pure beeswax" with
              >no artificial ingredients. Red paschal eggs and red
              >(crimson) vestments *are* traditional.
              >

              XB!

              Many Russians would consider the bright red eggs (dyed with Greek
              ARTIFICIAL chemical dyes) to be untraditional. Traditional Russian
              Pascha eggs are dyed with natural vegetable dyes made from onion
              skins, etc. So, please don't try to twist differences in ethnic
              customs into canonical arguments. For every canon that you wish to
              hurl against the Russians, I could find another to hurl against the
              Greeks (both old and new calendar.) In the end, we won't have
              accomplished much except to have behaved in an exceedingly un-
              Christian manner. I prefer to leave judgements about what "is
              probably against the church canons" to my bishop.

              In Christ,
              Carol Surgant
            • Martinian Prince
              Chris is Risen! Father, bless! I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red ruined by evil ideologies to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father
              Message 6 of 13 , May 4, 2007
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                Chris is Risen!

                Father, bless!

                I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red "ruined by evil
                ideologies" to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father Stefan is
                right, there IS yet hope! We had them first; they are still ours to
                take back. I submit this view: continue to fearlessly use those things
                whose original meanings are innocent and good! We may be the last
                thing standing between a bit of good being snuffed out, usurped by the
                spirit of Antichrist.

                I humbly yet firmly say that we should use these things unnaffected,
                in innocence and goodwill, as those exhorted to live in the world and
                not be of it. Every good, noble, beautiful,righteous and holy thing
                will be taken by the enemy and twisted to suit his purposes, but only
                as the world understands them--we are not of this world. We did not
                let the Arians take the word 'Christ'. Rightly, it is the big ideas we
                should most fiercely defend. Why, however, should we give the world
                even the smallest word or concept? What has the world ever given us?

                Could this be a token way to "be as the little children" and in our
                own unnaffected use of the word, keep the innocence and simplicity of
                gaiety alive? After growing up in the SF Bay Area, and had friends, of
                a sort, who had fallen to the temptation implied, I know there is no
                mistake in the colors, words and symbols chosen to proclaim their
                accursed path. See how the demons have led these wretched dupes to
                wave a rainbow flag--the very symbol God gave to us as a promise to
                never again punish us for our sins by a destroying flood--as a mockery
                of His mercy.

                I don't say this as a rebellion to what you said Father, but I heard
                your comment as a call to rebellion. I say no! I will not let words be
                taken from me because those lost in darkness have forgotten their
                understanding. "God is with us,understand O ye nations, and submit
                yourselves!" We are the wards and keepers of those things that are
                good, noble, beautiful, righteous and holy. Consider them to be a
                prize to be won in the Unseen Warfare! I certainly feel this is so,
                but feelings can't be trusted, and I'm no authority.

                What do you think, Father Stefan? Do we do work for good by ignoring
                the implications that the world and the enemy have inflicted on
                traditional concepts and culture? When I read books by Charles Dickens
                or the Little House on the Prairie series by Laura Ingalls Wilder,
                there is so much cultural good that is now lost or reviled. This world
                is so in need of gentility and nobility (but not fake, we have enough
                of that)! I don't want to give up what we can still keep by orthopraxis.

                Wishing all a Paschaltide bright and gay!

                He is Risen indeed!

                Sdn Martinian

                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
                >
                > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
                > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
                > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
                > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
                > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
                > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
                > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                >
                > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@> wrote:
                > >
                > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                > > >Christ is Risen!
                > >
                > > Truly, He is Risen!
                > >
                > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                > candles at
                > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                > >
                > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
                > a
                > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                > Pentecost.
                > > It's an interesting question.
                > >
                > > Anna V.
                > > _________________________________________
                > >
                > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
                > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
                > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
                > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                > >
                > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                > > _______________________
                > >
                >
              • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                And RAINBOW!, how dare Rainbow be taken over by political ideologues, it is wonderful if it only represented to some the joy of all peoples together, that s
                Message 7 of 13 , May 4, 2007
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                  And RAINBOW!, how dare Rainbow be taken over by political ideologues,
                  it is wonderful if it only represented to some the joy of all peoples
                  together, that's fine, but again it included radical political
                  stripes and immoral activities also, how sad is that. We are taking
                  the RAINBOW back, too! We had a gay time at the picnic after the
                  summer shower, when the rainbow shone brightly above our heads!

                  Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Martinian Prince"
                  <riparianprince@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Chris is Risen!
                  >
                  > Father, bless!
                  >
                  > I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red "ruined by
                  evil
                  > ideologies" to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father Stefan is
                  > right, there IS yet hope! We had them first; they are still ours to
                  > take back. I submit this view: continue to fearlessly use those
                  things
                  > whose original meanings are innocent and good! We may be the last
                  > thing standing between a bit of good being snuffed out, usurped by
                  the
                  > spirit of Antichrist.
                  >
                  > I humbly yet firmly say that we should use these things unnaffected,
                  > in innocence and goodwill, as those exhorted to live in the world
                  and
                  > not be of it. Every good, noble, beautiful,righteous and holy thing
                  > will be taken by the enemy and twisted to suit his purposes, but
                  only
                  > as the world understands them--we are not of this world. We did not
                  > let the Arians take the word 'Christ'. Rightly, it is the big ideas
                  we
                  > should most fiercely defend. Why, however, should we give the world
                  > even the smallest word or concept? What has the world ever given us?
                  >
                  > Could this be a token way to "be as the little children" and in our
                  > own unnaffected use of the word, keep the innocence and simplicity
                  of
                  > gaiety alive? After growing up in the SF Bay Area, and had friends,
                  of
                  > a sort, who had fallen to the temptation implied, I know there is no
                  > mistake in the colors, words and symbols chosen to proclaim their
                  > accursed path. See how the demons have led these wretched dupes to
                  > wave a rainbow flag--the very symbol God gave to us as a promise to
                  > never again punish us for our sins by a destroying flood--as a
                  mockery
                  > of His mercy.
                  >
                  > I don't say this as a rebellion to what you said Father, but I heard
                  > your comment as a call to rebellion. I say no! I will not let words
                  be
                  > taken from me because those lost in darkness have forgotten their
                  > understanding. "God is with us,understand O ye nations, and submit
                  > yourselves!" We are the wards and keepers of those things that are
                  > good, noble, beautiful, righteous and holy. Consider them to be a
                  > prize to be won in the Unseen Warfare! I certainly feel this is so,
                  > but feelings can't be trusted, and I'm no authority.
                  >
                  > What do you think, Father Stefan? Do we do work for good by ignoring
                  > the implications that the world and the enemy have inflicted on
                  > traditional concepts and culture? When I read books by Charles
                  Dickens
                  > or the Little House on the Prairie series by Laura Ingalls Wilder,
                  > there is so much cultural good that is now lost or reviled. This
                  world
                  > is so in need of gentility and nobility (but not fake, we have
                  enough
                  > of that)! I don't want to give up what we can still keep by
                  orthopraxis.
                  >
                  > Wishing all a Paschaltide bright and gay!
                  >
                  > He is Risen indeed!
                  >
                  > Sdn Martinian
                  >
                  > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                  > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians
                  became
                  > > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful
                  word a
                  > > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very
                  sound
                  > > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in
                  Russia
                  > > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings,
                  beauty
                  > > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the
                  faithful...
                  > > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                  > >
                  > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                  > > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                  > > > >Christ is Risen!
                  > > >
                  > > > Truly, He is Risen!
                  > > >
                  > > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                  > > candles at
                  > > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                  > > >
                  > > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red
                  candles at
                  > > a
                  > > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                  > > Pentecost.
                  > > > It's an interesting question.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anna V.
                  > > > _________________________________________
                  > > >
                  > > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an
                  image
                  > > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the
                  photos
                  > > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the
                  two
                  > > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                  > > >
                  > > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                  > > > _______________________
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • German Ciuba
                  I applaud subdeacon Martinian s essay and certainly agree with Fr Stefan s added comments about the rainbow. The proper use of language is a long-standing
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 10, 2007
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                    I applaud subdeacon Martinian's essay and certainly agree with Fr
                    Stefan's added comments about the rainbow.
                    The proper use of language is a long-standing concern of mine. Language
                    can easily and subtly be manipulated by those with a particular agenda.
                    We are seeing this more and more now in this age of mass media and
                    instantaneous communication. In a single generation there have been many
                    words that have been misappropriated or rejected, often by the political
                    correctness lobby.
                    Though we must fight for the rainbow, I am afraid we have lost the word
                    gay. Most unfortunate! I agree that we should be able to use it in its
                    old sense. It's a perfectly good word, as long as people understand the
                    sense it which it used. But if a parish advertised a "gay parish picnic"
                    or something of that sort, I think it would attract the wrong kind of
                    attention. It's sad that sick people have taken over a nice (there's an
                    old-fashioned word from my childhood) word; it masks a reference to
                    their psycho-spiritual sickness. On the other hand, for those of us
                    brought up with the last of the Victorian culture of euphemisms, in
                    which a certain short word beginning with "s" was never mentioned in
                    polite conversation, even within the family circle, it is convenient to
                    have a word that is not so ugly as the sin to which it refers, of which
                    it is shameful even to speak, as St Paul says.
                    It seems a similar, and even worse, situation has occurred in
                    contemporary Russian. Slang is always changing, but at least few years
                    ago the word "goluboy" (blue) was being used to refer to the same people
                    who have taken over "gay." Imagine - the colour of the heavens, the
                    colour of the Mother of God being used for stubborn sinners! At least we
                    can substitute another word, such as "merry", for "gay", if we wish to
                    avoid misunderstanding and smirking. Blue, however, is one of those
                    basic words for which there is no substitute.
                    (By the way, I recall an instance some years ago, in a parish comprised
                    of mostly elderly Russian immigrants, where I was told that red covers
                    were not desirable in church, because red is Soviet.)
                    I will continue to speak English as I learned it over fifty years ago.
                    It is true that language changes, but we can resist the change, refuse
                    to go along with it, till no one understnads us any more, and then we
                    can translate for them into another idiom. This is the value of "King
                    James" English or Church Slavonic - words that are used in a fixed and
                    anciently accepted way, not subject to the sway of newspaper columnists,
                    rappers or university language police.
                    A basic English word for which we _must _contend is the word "man." This
                    is a word for which there is no substitute. Those who either
                    deliberately or unthinkingly accept the PC rejection of its age-old
                    meaning of God's rational and physical creature frequently resort to the
                    circumlocution of "human being." That sounds like a scientific term, not
                    an ordinary word. Must we soon refer to pets (another word that some
                    wish to outlaw) as "feline beings" and "canine beings," or ride "equine
                    beings," or drink milk from "bovine beings"? Or else they resort to
                    "person" or "individual", which are proper and specific philosophical
                    and legal terms, but when overused in conversation sound like speech
                    from a Damon Runyon story, in which everyone is regularly referred to as
                    a "citizen." The refusal to use the word "man" in its common meaning is
                    part of an insidious plan to sexualize (sorry! there's that word) or
                    genderize all of language and, ultimately, all of life. I used to make
                    it a point to tell young people in church school classes that boys and
                    girls, men and women are all men, part of mankind, and each of us is a
                    man. ("Mankind was my business!" cried Marley's ghost.) Treatises could
                    be, and have been, written on the subject of the alteration of language
                    as a sign of the alteration of culture. (Perhaps someone could recommend
                    a favourite book on the subject.) It is always good to see a man jump to
                    the defence of his tongue.
                    Hieromonk German Ciuba


                    Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko wrote:
                    >
                    > And RAINBOW!, how dare Rainbow be taken over by political ideologues,
                    > it is wonderful if it only represented to some the joy of all peoples
                    > together, that's fine, but again it included radical political
                    > stripes and immoral activities also, how sad is that. We are taking
                    > the RAINBOW back, too! We had a gay time at the picnic after the
                    > summer shower, when the rainbow shone brightly above our heads!
                    >
                    > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                    >
                    > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, "Martinian Prince"
                    > <riparianprince@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Chris is Risen!
                    > >
                    > > Father, bless!
                    > >
                    > > I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red "ruined by
                    > evil
                    > > ideologies" to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father Stefan is
                    > > right, there IS yet hope! We had them first; they are still ours to
                    > > take back. I submit this view: continue to fearlessly use those
                    > things
                    > > whose original meanings are innocent and good! We may be the last
                    > > thing standing between a bit of good being snuffed out, usurped by
                    > the
                    > > spirit of Antichrist.
                    > >
                    > > I humbly yet firmly say that we should use these things unnaffected,
                    > > in innocence and goodwill, as those exhorted to live in the world
                    > and
                    > > not be of it. Every good, noble, beautiful,righteous and holy thing
                    > > will be taken by the enemy and twisted to suit his purposes, but
                    > only
                    > > as the world understands them--we are not of this world. We did not
                    > > let the Arians take the word 'Christ'. Rightly, it is the big ideas
                    > we
                    > > should most fiercely defend. Why, however, should we give the world
                    > > even the smallest word or concept? What has the world ever given us?
                    > >
                    > > Could this be a token way to "be as the little children" and in our
                    > > own unnaffected use of the word, keep the innocence and simplicity
                    > of
                    > > gaiety alive? After growing up in the SF Bay Area, and had friends,
                    > of
                    > > a sort, who had fallen to the temptation implied, I know there is no
                    > > mistake in the colors, words and symbols chosen to proclaim their
                    > > accursed path. See how the demons have led these wretched dupes to
                    > > wave a rainbow flag--the very symbol God gave to us as a promise to
                    > > never again punish us for our sins by a destroying flood--as a
                    > mockery
                    > > of His mercy.
                    > >
                    > > I don't say this as a rebellion to what you said Father, but I heard
                    > > your comment as a call to rebellion. I say no! I will not let words
                    > be
                    > > taken from me because those lost in darkness have forgotten their
                    > > understanding. "God is with us,understand O ye nations, and submit
                    > > yourselves!" We are the wards and keepers of those things that are
                    > > good, noble, beautiful, righteous and holy. Consider them to be a
                    > > prize to be won in the Unseen Warfare! I certainly feel this is so,
                    > > but feelings can't be trusted, and I'm no authority.
                    > >
                    > > What do you think, Father Stefan? Do we do work for good by ignoring
                    > > the implications that the world and the enemy have inflicted on
                    > > traditional concepts and culture? When I read books by Charles
                    > Dickens
                    > > or the Little House on the Prairie series by Laura Ingalls Wilder,
                    > > there is so much cultural good that is now lost or reviled. This
                    > world
                    > > is so in need of gentility and nobility (but not fake, we have
                    > enough
                    > > of that)! I don't want to give up what we can still keep by
                    > orthopraxis.
                    > >
                    > > Wishing all a Paschaltide bright and gay!
                    > >
                    > > He is Risen indeed!
                    > >
                    > > Sdn Martinian
                    > >
                    > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                    > > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians
                    > became
                    > > > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful
                    > word a
                    > > > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very
                    > sound
                    > > > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in
                    > Russia
                    > > > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings,
                    > beauty
                    > > > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the
                    > faithful...
                    > > > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                    > > >
                    > > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, DDD <dimitradd@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                    > > > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                    > > > > >Christ is Risen!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Truly, He is Risen!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                    > > > candles at
                    > > > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red
                    > candles at
                    > > > a
                    > > > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                    > > > Pentecost.
                    > > > > It's an interesting question.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Anna V.
                    > > > > _________________________________________
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an
                    > image
                    > > > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the
                    > photos
                    > > > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the
                    > two
                    > > > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                    > > > > _______________________
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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