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Re: [orthodox-synod] Red Candles???

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  • Anna Voellmecke
    ... Truly, He is Risen! ... ???? I didn t get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at a ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
    Message 1 of 13 , May 2, 2007
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      At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
      >Christ is Risen!

      Truly, He is Risen!


      >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red" candles at
      >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??

      ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at a
      ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was Pentecost.
      It's an interesting question.

      Anna V.
    • DDD
      On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote: ... Truly, He is Risen! ... ???? I didn t get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at a
      Message 2 of 13 , May 2, 2007
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        On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
        At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
        >Christ is Risen!

        Truly, He is Risen!

        >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red" candles at
        >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??

        ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at a
        ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was Pentecost.
        It's an interesting question.

        Anna V.
        _________________________________________

        I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two crowns on it and two RED candles! ??

        --Dimitra Dwelley
        _______________________
      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        The color red , crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became much like the word gay in the English Language. A wonderful word a beautiful color
        Message 3 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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          The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
          much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
          beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
          and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
          the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
          and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
          maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!

          Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko





          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
          > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
          > >Christ is Risen!
          >
          > Truly, He is Risen!
          >
          > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
          candles at
          > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
          >
          > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
          a
          > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
          Pentecost.
          > It's an interesting question.
          >
          > Anna V.
          > _________________________________________
          >
          > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
          search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
          the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
          crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
          >
          > --Dimitra Dwelley
          > _______________________
          >
        • Fr. Anthony Nelson
          A long time ago - probably 15 years - an emigre Russian family here offered to bring and donate candles for the Paschal Vigil. What they showed up with were
          Message 4 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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            A long time ago - probably 15 years - an emigre' Russian family here
            offered to bring and donate candles for the Paschal Vigil. What they
            showed up with were boxes of red candles. No one at the Vigil that
            night commented one way or the other...so it was obviously not
            unexpected or abnormal...


            At 09:29 AM 5/3/2007, you wrote:

            >The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
            >much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
            >beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
            >and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
            >the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
            >and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
            >maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!

            Well...I don't know if "GAY" can be rehabilitated. At least in this society!

            Fr. Anthony


            * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
            Protopriest Anthony Nelson
            St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
            Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
            mailto:fr.anthony@...
            http://www.russianorthodoxoklahoma.org

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen/Στέφανος
            Yes, father, but making red candles has to be a new tradition, an innovation; and is probably against the church canons because they most likely use an
            Message 5 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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              Yes, father, but making "red" candles has to be a new tradition, an
              innovation; and is probably against the church canons because they
              most likely use an "artificial dye" to make that color, whereas
              Orthodox candles are supposed to be made of "pure beeswax" with no
              artificial ingredients. Red paschal eggs and red (crimson)
              vestments *are* traditional.

              (I do lament that so many Greek churches in the diaspora use
              petroleum/paraffin candles, they're uncanonical, smell horrible when
              extinguished and are simply tacky!)

              Stephanos


              Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko wrote:
              >
              > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
              > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
              > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
              > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
              > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
              > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
              > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
              >
              > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
              >
              > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
              > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
              > > >Christ is Risen!
              > >
              > > Truly, He is Risen!
              > >
              > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
              > candles at
              > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
              > >
              > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
              > a
              > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
              > Pentecost.
              > > It's an interesting question.
              > >
              > > Anna V.
              > > _________________________________________
              > >
              > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
              > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
              > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
              > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
              > >
              > > --Dimitra Dwelley
              > > _______________________
              > >
              >
              >
            • George
              indeed the color red has been popular in Russia long before the communists and continues to be favored. i ve also heard that krasnaya (red in Russian) in old
              Message 6 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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                indeed the color red has been popular in Russia long before the communists and continues to be favored.

                i've also heard that krasnaya (red in Russian) in old Russian could also mean beautiful or important.

                assuming that anything Russian and Red is somehow a relation to the Soviets or their Ideaology is a mistake.

                George

                On Thursday, May 03, 2007, at 04:23PM, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko" <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
                >The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
                >much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
                >beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
                >and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
                >the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
                >and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
                >maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                >
                >Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                >> At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                >> >Christ is Risen!
                >>
                >> Truly, He is Risen!
                >>
                >> >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                >candles at
                >> >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                >>
                >> ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
                >a
                >> ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                >Pentecost.
                >> It's an interesting question.
                >>
                >> Anna V.
                >> _________________________________________
                >>
                >> I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
                >search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
                >the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
                >crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                >>
                >> --Dimitra Dwelley
                >> _______________________
                >>
                >
                >
                >
              • Rev Fr Mark Gilstrap
                ... communists and continues to be favored. ... also mean beautiful or important. case in point: Red Square
                Message 7 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > indeed the color red has been popular in Russia long before the
                  communists and continues to be favored.
                  >
                  > i've also heard that krasnaya (red in Russian) in old Russian could
                  also mean beautiful or important.

                  case in point: Red Square
                • proto@net2000.com.au
                  Dear Stephanos, When the late Archbishop Anthony of San Francisco was bishop of Melbourne, i.e. 1956-1967, he always used red candles in the bishop s blessing
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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                    Dear Stephanos,
                    When the late Archbishop Anthony of San Francisco was bishop of Melbourne,
                    i.e. 1956-1967, he always used red candles in the bishop's blessing
                    candlesticks. Red candles were made for the parishioners on Easter Eve and the
                    subdeacons and deacons wore red orarions on their white vestments. I doubt
                    that this is an innovation, but something that Vladyka Anthony was particular
                    about at the time. If anything, this is a Russian tradition and has nothing
                    to do canonicity.
                    In Christ
                    Fr Michael Protopopov.

                    Quoting Stephen/Στέφανος <sbuatl@...>:

                    > Yes, father, but making "red" candles has to be a new tradition, an
                    > innovation; and is probably against the church canons because they
                    > most likely use an "artificial dye" to make that color, whereas
                    > Orthodox candles are supposed to be made of "pure beeswax" with no
                    > artificial ingredients. Red paschal eggs and red (crimson)
                    > vestments *are* traditional.
                    >
                    > (I do lament that so many Greek churches in the diaspora use
                    > petroleum/paraffin candles, they're uncanonical, smell horrible when
                    > extinguished and are simply tacky!)
                    >
                    > Stephanos
                    >
                    >
                    > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
                    > > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
                    > > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
                    > > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
                    > > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
                    > > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
                    > > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                    > >
                    > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                    > >
                    > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                    > > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                    > > > >Christ is Risen!
                    > > >
                    > > > Truly, He is Risen!
                    > > >
                    > > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                    > > candles at
                    > > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                    > > >
                    > > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
                    > > a
                    > > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                    > > Pentecost.
                    > > > It's an interesting question.
                    > > >
                    > > > Anna V.
                    > > > _________________________________________
                    > > >
                    > > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
                    > > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
                    > > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
                    > > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                    > > >
                    > > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                    > > > _______________________
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Carol Surgant
                    ... XB! Many Russians would consider the bright red eggs (dyed with Greek ARTIFICIAL chemical dyes) to be untraditional. Traditional Russian Pascha eggs are
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 3, 2007
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                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Stephen/Στέφανος
                      <sbuatl@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Yes, father, but making "red" candles has to be a new
                      >tradition, an innovation; and is probably against
                      >the church canons because they most likely use an
                      >"artificial dye" to make that color, whereas Orthodox
                      >candles are supposed to be made of "pure beeswax" with
                      >no artificial ingredients. Red paschal eggs and red
                      >(crimson) vestments *are* traditional.
                      >

                      XB!

                      Many Russians would consider the bright red eggs (dyed with Greek
                      ARTIFICIAL chemical dyes) to be untraditional. Traditional Russian
                      Pascha eggs are dyed with natural vegetable dyes made from onion
                      skins, etc. So, please don't try to twist differences in ethnic
                      customs into canonical arguments. For every canon that you wish to
                      hurl against the Russians, I could find another to hurl against the
                      Greeks (both old and new calendar.) In the end, we won't have
                      accomplished much except to have behaved in an exceedingly un-
                      Christian manner. I prefer to leave judgements about what "is
                      probably against the church canons" to my bishop.

                      In Christ,
                      Carol Surgant
                    • Martinian Prince
                      Chris is Risen! Father, bless! I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red ruined by evil ideologies to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 4, 2007
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                        Chris is Risen!

                        Father, bless!

                        I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red "ruined by evil
                        ideologies" to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father Stefan is
                        right, there IS yet hope! We had them first; they are still ours to
                        take back. I submit this view: continue to fearlessly use those things
                        whose original meanings are innocent and good! We may be the last
                        thing standing between a bit of good being snuffed out, usurped by the
                        spirit of Antichrist.

                        I humbly yet firmly say that we should use these things unnaffected,
                        in innocence and goodwill, as those exhorted to live in the world and
                        not be of it. Every good, noble, beautiful,righteous and holy thing
                        will be taken by the enemy and twisted to suit his purposes, but only
                        as the world understands them--we are not of this world. We did not
                        let the Arians take the word 'Christ'. Rightly, it is the big ideas we
                        should most fiercely defend. Why, however, should we give the world
                        even the smallest word or concept? What has the world ever given us?

                        Could this be a token way to "be as the little children" and in our
                        own unnaffected use of the word, keep the innocence and simplicity of
                        gaiety alive? After growing up in the SF Bay Area, and had friends, of
                        a sort, who had fallen to the temptation implied, I know there is no
                        mistake in the colors, words and symbols chosen to proclaim their
                        accursed path. See how the demons have led these wretched dupes to
                        wave a rainbow flag--the very symbol God gave to us as a promise to
                        never again punish us for our sins by a destroying flood--as a mockery
                        of His mercy.

                        I don't say this as a rebellion to what you said Father, but I heard
                        your comment as a call to rebellion. I say no! I will not let words be
                        taken from me because those lost in darkness have forgotten their
                        understanding. "God is with us,understand O ye nations, and submit
                        yourselves!" We are the wards and keepers of those things that are
                        good, noble, beautiful, righteous and holy. Consider them to be a
                        prize to be won in the Unseen Warfare! I certainly feel this is so,
                        but feelings can't be trusted, and I'm no authority.

                        What do you think, Father Stefan? Do we do work for good by ignoring
                        the implications that the world and the enemy have inflicted on
                        traditional concepts and culture? When I read books by Charles Dickens
                        or the Little House on the Prairie series by Laura Ingalls Wilder,
                        there is so much cultural good that is now lost or reviled. This world
                        is so in need of gentility and nobility (but not fake, we have enough
                        of that)! I don't want to give up what we can still keep by orthopraxis.

                        Wishing all a Paschaltide bright and gay!

                        He is Risen indeed!

                        Sdn Martinian

                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                        <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians became
                        > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful word a
                        > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very sound
                        > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in Russia
                        > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings, beauty
                        > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the faithful...
                        > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                        >
                        > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                        > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                        > > >Christ is Risen!
                        > >
                        > > Truly, He is Risen!
                        > >
                        > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                        > candles at
                        > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                        > >
                        > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red candles at
                        > a
                        > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                        > Pentecost.
                        > > It's an interesting question.
                        > >
                        > > Anna V.
                        > > _________________________________________
                        > >
                        > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an image
                        > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the photos
                        > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the two
                        > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                        > >
                        > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                        > > _______________________
                        > >
                        >
                      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                        And RAINBOW!, how dare Rainbow be taken over by political ideologues, it is wonderful if it only represented to some the joy of all peoples together, that s
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 4, 2007
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                          And RAINBOW!, how dare Rainbow be taken over by political ideologues,
                          it is wonderful if it only represented to some the joy of all peoples
                          together, that's fine, but again it included radical political
                          stripes and immoral activities also, how sad is that. We are taking
                          the RAINBOW back, too! We had a gay time at the picnic after the
                          summer shower, when the rainbow shone brightly above our heads!

                          Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Martinian Prince"
                          <riparianprince@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Chris is Risen!
                          >
                          > Father, bless!
                          >
                          > I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red "ruined by
                          evil
                          > ideologies" to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father Stefan is
                          > right, there IS yet hope! We had them first; they are still ours to
                          > take back. I submit this view: continue to fearlessly use those
                          things
                          > whose original meanings are innocent and good! We may be the last
                          > thing standing between a bit of good being snuffed out, usurped by
                          the
                          > spirit of Antichrist.
                          >
                          > I humbly yet firmly say that we should use these things unnaffected,
                          > in innocence and goodwill, as those exhorted to live in the world
                          and
                          > not be of it. Every good, noble, beautiful,righteous and holy thing
                          > will be taken by the enemy and twisted to suit his purposes, but
                          only
                          > as the world understands them--we are not of this world. We did not
                          > let the Arians take the word 'Christ'. Rightly, it is the big ideas
                          we
                          > should most fiercely defend. Why, however, should we give the world
                          > even the smallest word or concept? What has the world ever given us?
                          >
                          > Could this be a token way to "be as the little children" and in our
                          > own unnaffected use of the word, keep the innocence and simplicity
                          of
                          > gaiety alive? After growing up in the SF Bay Area, and had friends,
                          of
                          > a sort, who had fallen to the temptation implied, I know there is no
                          > mistake in the colors, words and symbols chosen to proclaim their
                          > accursed path. See how the demons have led these wretched dupes to
                          > wave a rainbow flag--the very symbol God gave to us as a promise to
                          > never again punish us for our sins by a destroying flood--as a
                          mockery
                          > of His mercy.
                          >
                          > I don't say this as a rebellion to what you said Father, but I heard
                          > your comment as a call to rebellion. I say no! I will not let words
                          be
                          > taken from me because those lost in darkness have forgotten their
                          > understanding. "God is with us,understand O ye nations, and submit
                          > yourselves!" We are the wards and keepers of those things that are
                          > good, noble, beautiful, righteous and holy. Consider them to be a
                          > prize to be won in the Unseen Warfare! I certainly feel this is so,
                          > but feelings can't be trusted, and I'm no authority.
                          >
                          > What do you think, Father Stefan? Do we do work for good by ignoring
                          > the implications that the world and the enemy have inflicted on
                          > traditional concepts and culture? When I read books by Charles
                          Dickens
                          > or the Little House on the Prairie series by Laura Ingalls Wilder,
                          > there is so much cultural good that is now lost or reviled. This
                          world
                          > is so in need of gentility and nobility (but not fake, we have
                          enough
                          > of that)! I don't want to give up what we can still keep by
                          orthopraxis.
                          >
                          > Wishing all a Paschaltide bright and gay!
                          >
                          > He is Risen indeed!
                          >
                          > Sdn Martinian
                          >
                          > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                          > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians
                          became
                          > > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful
                          word a
                          > > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very
                          sound
                          > > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in
                          Russia
                          > > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings,
                          beauty
                          > > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the
                          faithful...
                          > > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                          > >
                          > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                          > > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                          > > > >Christ is Risen!
                          > > >
                          > > > Truly, He is Risen!
                          > > >
                          > > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                          > > candles at
                          > > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                          > > >
                          > > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red
                          candles at
                          > > a
                          > > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                          > > Pentecost.
                          > > > It's an interesting question.
                          > > >
                          > > > Anna V.
                          > > > _________________________________________
                          > > >
                          > > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an
                          image
                          > > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the
                          photos
                          > > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the
                          two
                          > > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                          > > >
                          > > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                          > > > _______________________
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • German Ciuba
                          I applaud subdeacon Martinian s essay and certainly agree with Fr Stefan s added comments about the rainbow. The proper use of language is a long-standing
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 10, 2007
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                            I applaud subdeacon Martinian's essay and certainly agree with Fr
                            Stefan's added comments about the rainbow.
                            The proper use of language is a long-standing concern of mine. Language
                            can easily and subtly be manipulated by those with a particular agenda.
                            We are seeing this more and more now in this age of mass media and
                            instantaneous communication. In a single generation there have been many
                            words that have been misappropriated or rejected, often by the political
                            correctness lobby.
                            Though we must fight for the rainbow, I am afraid we have lost the word
                            gay. Most unfortunate! I agree that we should be able to use it in its
                            old sense. It's a perfectly good word, as long as people understand the
                            sense it which it used. But if a parish advertised a "gay parish picnic"
                            or something of that sort, I think it would attract the wrong kind of
                            attention. It's sad that sick people have taken over a nice (there's an
                            old-fashioned word from my childhood) word; it masks a reference to
                            their psycho-spiritual sickness. On the other hand, for those of us
                            brought up with the last of the Victorian culture of euphemisms, in
                            which a certain short word beginning with "s" was never mentioned in
                            polite conversation, even within the family circle, it is convenient to
                            have a word that is not so ugly as the sin to which it refers, of which
                            it is shameful even to speak, as St Paul says.
                            It seems a similar, and even worse, situation has occurred in
                            contemporary Russian. Slang is always changing, but at least few years
                            ago the word "goluboy" (blue) was being used to refer to the same people
                            who have taken over "gay." Imagine - the colour of the heavens, the
                            colour of the Mother of God being used for stubborn sinners! At least we
                            can substitute another word, such as "merry", for "gay", if we wish to
                            avoid misunderstanding and smirking. Blue, however, is one of those
                            basic words for which there is no substitute.
                            (By the way, I recall an instance some years ago, in a parish comprised
                            of mostly elderly Russian immigrants, where I was told that red covers
                            were not desirable in church, because red is Soviet.)
                            I will continue to speak English as I learned it over fifty years ago.
                            It is true that language changes, but we can resist the change, refuse
                            to go along with it, till no one understnads us any more, and then we
                            can translate for them into another idiom. This is the value of "King
                            James" English or Church Slavonic - words that are used in a fixed and
                            anciently accepted way, not subject to the sway of newspaper columnists,
                            rappers or university language police.
                            A basic English word for which we _must _contend is the word "man." This
                            is a word for which there is no substitute. Those who either
                            deliberately or unthinkingly accept the PC rejection of its age-old
                            meaning of God's rational and physical creature frequently resort to the
                            circumlocution of "human being." That sounds like a scientific term, not
                            an ordinary word. Must we soon refer to pets (another word that some
                            wish to outlaw) as "feline beings" and "canine beings," or ride "equine
                            beings," or drink milk from "bovine beings"? Or else they resort to
                            "person" or "individual", which are proper and specific philosophical
                            and legal terms, but when overused in conversation sound like speech
                            from a Damon Runyon story, in which everyone is regularly referred to as
                            a "citizen." The refusal to use the word "man" in its common meaning is
                            part of an insidious plan to sexualize (sorry! there's that word) or
                            genderize all of language and, ultimately, all of life. I used to make
                            it a point to tell young people in church school classes that boys and
                            girls, men and women are all men, part of mankind, and each of us is a
                            man. ("Mankind was my business!" cried Marley's ghost.) Treatises could
                            be, and have been, written on the subject of the alteration of language
                            as a sign of the alteration of culture. (Perhaps someone could recommend
                            a favourite book on the subject.) It is always good to see a man jump to
                            the defence of his tongue.
                            Hieromonk German Ciuba


                            Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko wrote:
                            >
                            > And RAINBOW!, how dare Rainbow be taken over by political ideologues,
                            > it is wonderful if it only represented to some the joy of all peoples
                            > together, that's fine, but again it included radical political
                            > stripes and immoral activities also, how sad is that. We are taking
                            > the RAINBOW back, too! We had a gay time at the picnic after the
                            > summer shower, when the rainbow shone brightly above our heads!
                            >
                            > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                            >
                            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, "Martinian Prince"
                            > <riparianprince@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Chris is Risen!
                            > >
                            > > Father, bless!
                            > >
                            > > I beg you all not to consider things like gay and red "ruined by
                            > evil
                            > > ideologies" to us who honor and seek the Truth. Father Stefan is
                            > > right, there IS yet hope! We had them first; they are still ours to
                            > > take back. I submit this view: continue to fearlessly use those
                            > things
                            > > whose original meanings are innocent and good! We may be the last
                            > > thing standing between a bit of good being snuffed out, usurped by
                            > the
                            > > spirit of Antichrist.
                            > >
                            > > I humbly yet firmly say that we should use these things unnaffected,
                            > > in innocence and goodwill, as those exhorted to live in the world
                            > and
                            > > not be of it. Every good, noble, beautiful,righteous and holy thing
                            > > will be taken by the enemy and twisted to suit his purposes, but
                            > only
                            > > as the world understands them--we are not of this world. We did not
                            > > let the Arians take the word 'Christ'. Rightly, it is the big ideas
                            > we
                            > > should most fiercely defend. Why, however, should we give the world
                            > > even the smallest word or concept? What has the world ever given us?
                            > >
                            > > Could this be a token way to "be as the little children" and in our
                            > > own unnaffected use of the word, keep the innocence and simplicity
                            > of
                            > > gaiety alive? After growing up in the SF Bay Area, and had friends,
                            > of
                            > > a sort, who had fallen to the temptation implied, I know there is no
                            > > mistake in the colors, words and symbols chosen to proclaim their
                            > > accursed path. See how the demons have led these wretched dupes to
                            > > wave a rainbow flag--the very symbol God gave to us as a promise to
                            > > never again punish us for our sins by a destroying flood--as a
                            > mockery
                            > > of His mercy.
                            > >
                            > > I don't say this as a rebellion to what you said Father, but I heard
                            > > your comment as a call to rebellion. I say no! I will not let words
                            > be
                            > > taken from me because those lost in darkness have forgotten their
                            > > understanding. "God is with us,understand O ye nations, and submit
                            > > yourselves!" We are the wards and keepers of those things that are
                            > > good, noble, beautiful, righteous and holy. Consider them to be a
                            > > prize to be won in the Unseen Warfare! I certainly feel this is so,
                            > > but feelings can't be trusted, and I'm no authority.
                            > >
                            > > What do you think, Father Stefan? Do we do work for good by ignoring
                            > > the implications that the world and the enemy have inflicted on
                            > > traditional concepts and culture? When I read books by Charles
                            > Dickens
                            > > or the Little House on the Prairie series by Laura Ingalls Wilder,
                            > > there is so much cultural good that is now lost or reviled. This
                            > world
                            > > is so in need of gentility and nobility (but not fake, we have
                            > enough
                            > > of that)! I don't want to give up what we can still keep by
                            > orthopraxis.
                            > >
                            > > Wishing all a Paschaltide bright and gay!
                            > >
                            > > He is Risen indeed!
                            > >
                            > > Sdn Martinian
                            > >
                            > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                            > > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > The color "red", crimson/ very bright red, for emigre Russians
                            > became
                            > > > much like the word "gay" in the English Language. A wonderful
                            > word a
                            > > > beautiful color ruined by evil ideologies that make the very
                            > sound
                            > > > and sight distasteful and symbolizing an abomination. But in
                            > Russia
                            > > > the color Red was always intertwined with stronger meanings,
                            > beauty
                            > > > and joy, so they stayed more firmly in the body of the
                            > faithful...
                            > > > maybe there is still hope for the word GAY!
                            > > >
                            > > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, DDD <dimitradd@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:20 -0500, Anna Voellmecke wrote:
                            > > > > At 01:14 AM 5/2/2007, you wrote:
                            > > > > >Christ is Risen!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Truly, He is Risen!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >Can someone tell me what is with those horrible "blood-red"
                            > > > candles at
                            > > > > >Boris Yeltsin's funeral??
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ???? I didn't get to see the video, but I have seen red
                            > candles at
                            > > > a
                            > > > > ROCOR cathedral in Munich. I thought it was because it was
                            > > > Pentecost.
                            > > > > It's an interesting question.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Anna V.
                            > > > > _________________________________________
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I don't know about them, either, but I recently was doing an
                            > image
                            > > > search for photos of Russian wedding crowns, and one of the
                            > photos
                            > > > the search engine came up with showed the small table with the
                            > two
                            > > > crowns on it and two RED candles! ??
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --Dimitra Dwelley
                            > > > > _______________________
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
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