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Line of Succession of B.Tikhon of Omsk stems from Met. Vitaly

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  • michael nikitin
    Dear List, Some say it is a lie that B.Tikhon was made bishop by Metr.Vitaly, but the line of succession of consecrations for all the bishops in Bishop Lazar s
    Message 1 of 8 , May 1, 2007
      Dear List,

      Some say it is a lie that B.Tikhon was made bishop by
      Metr.Vitaly, but the line of succession of consecrations for all
      the bishops in Bishop Lazar's jurisdiction and Bishop Tikhon all
      stem from ROCOR's Metr.Vitaly.

      The line of succession of consecration for Patr. AlexeyII and the
      bishops of MP all stem from Metr. Sergiy , Pimen, etc...which our
      Synod Resolution of 1971 stated was invalid.

      Given the choices, Bishop Tikhon is a much better choice and one
      that our new Russian Martyrs would have no doubt taken.

      Michael N

      P.S. Fr. Kiprian, from Jordanville taught us, summer boys, not to
      say "he lied", but instead to say "he is not telling the truth".
      The former ,he said, is truck drivers language and he was no
      English teacher.


      --- matanna@... wrote:

      > Christ is risen!
      > The person posting as Mike Nikitin quoted someone as saying:
      >
      > >We must note that Bishop Tichon was made a bishop by the late
      > Met. Vitaly. So he is still part of the ROCA church. <
      >
      > This is a lie.






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    • maestro_vg
      Even met. Vitaly did not recognize the consecration of archbishop Tikhon.
      Message 2 of 8 , May 1, 2007
        Even met. Vitaly did not recognize the "consecration" of "archbishop"
        Tikhon.

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
        <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear List,
        >
        > Some say it is a lie that B.Tikhon was made bishop by
        > Metr.Vitaly, but the line of succession of consecrations for all
        > the bishops in Bishop Lazar's jurisdiction and Bishop Tikhon all
        > stem from ROCOR's Metr.Vitaly.
        >
        > The line of succession of consecration for Patr. AlexeyII and the
        > bishops of MP all stem from Metr. Sergiy , Pimen, etc...which our
        > Synod Resolution of 1971 stated was invalid.
        >
        > Given the choices, Bishop Tikhon is a much better choice and one
        > that our new Russian Martyrs would have no doubt taken.
        >
        > Michael N
        >
        > P.S. Fr. Kiprian, from Jordanville taught us, summer boys, not to
        > say "he lied", but instead to say "he is not telling the truth".
        > The former ,he said, is truck drivers language and he was no
        > English teacher.
        >
        >
        > --- matanna@... wrote:
        >
        > > Christ is risen!
        > > The person posting as Mike Nikitin quoted someone as saying:
        > >
        > > >We must note that Bishop Tichon was made a bishop by the late
        > > Met. Vitaly. So he is still part of the ROCA church. <
        > >
        > > This is a lie.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
      • Fr. Mark Mancuso
        ... Christ is risen! Ok. Michael is not telling the truth. What was in question was the recognition of the elections of these bishops as patriarchs; i.e.
        Message 3 of 8 , May 1, 2007
          --- michael nikitin <nikitinmike@...> wrote:

          > The line of succession of consecration for Patr.
          > AlexeyII and the
          > bishops of MP all stem from Metr. Sergiy , Pimen,
          > etc...which our
          > Synod Resolution of 1971 stated was invalid.

          Christ is risen!

          Ok. Michael is not telling the truth. What was in
          question was the recognition of the elections of these
          bishops as patriarchs; i.e. whether or not they would
          have ecclesial control over the ROCOR. What was not in
          question was their "succession of consecration". In
          other words, what was not disputed was whether or not
          these men were Orthodox bishops! This point has been
          made hundreds of times on these lists, has it not?

          Fr Mark

          Rev. Fr. Mark T. Mancuso
          St. Elizabeth the New-Martyr Orthodox Church
          Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
          Columbia, South Carolina
          http://www.stelizabeth.net
          *This email is meant only for private correspondence.
          Reproduction or forwarding without the sender's permission is prohibited.*

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        • Reader Timothy Tadros
          What happened to Benjamin did he form his own synodia in Russia? Rdr Timothy Tadros ... of Russia ... (ROCiE), ... arbitrarily formed ... (TROC). Living in ...
          Message 4 of 8 , May 1, 2007
            What happened to Benjamin did he form his own synodia in Russia?
            Rdr Timothy Tadros

            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, matanna@... wrote:
            >
            > Christ is risen!
            > The person posting as Mike Nikitin quoted someone as saying:
            >
            > >We must note that Bishop Tichon was made a bishop by the late
            > Met. Vitaly. So he is still part of the ROCA church. <
            >
            > This is a lie.
            >
            > Here's the real story.
            >
            > _http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2007/4entikhon.html_
            > (http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2007/4entikhon.html)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > NEW YORK: April 26, 2007
            > On the So-called “RT-OC”
            > Having left the episcopacy of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside
            of Russia
            > and joining the schismatic “Russian Orthodox Church in Exile”
            (ROCiE),
            > Archbishop Lazar (Zhurbenko) and Bishop Veniamin (Rusalenko)
            arbitrarily formed
            > their own jurisdiction, the “True Russian Orthodox Church”
            (TROC). Living in
            > Russia, far from the retired Metropolitan Vitaly, whom they
            recognized as
            > their primate, Archbishop Lazar and Bishop Veniamin decided to
            consecrate a few
            > new “bishops” for themselves. One of these was Tikhon, in the
            world, Leonid
            > Olimpovich Pasechnik (born in 1948, he finished the Kharkov
            school of
            > engineering). Pasechnik worked in construction, was married in
            1985, and became a
            > widower in 1993. In that same year he joined the Omsk parish of
            ROCA and in
            > 1998 he was tonsured a monk. In 1999, Bishop Evtikhy of Ishim and
            Siberia
            > ordained him a priest, but because of his lack of education,
            decided not to assign
            > him to his own parish. The following year Fr Tikhon left the
            Russian Church
            > Abroad and joined Archbishop Lazarâ€"in schism.
            > Although Bishop Veniamin asked Metropolitan Vitaly for a blessing
            for the
            > proposed consecrations in 2002, Metropolitan Vitaly indicated
            that in order to
            > choose a new candidate for the episcopacy, the agreement of the
            entire
            > Council of Bishops was necessary. Nevertheless, the
            “consecrations” took place.
            > Metropolitan Vitaly refused to accept their legitimacy two times.
            The first
            > time (28 July 2003), Metropolitan Vitaly wrote that the actions
            of Lazar and
            > Benjamin placed them outside the Russian Orthodox Church, and in
            his second
            > letter (19 November 2004), the Metropolitan declared: “I
            consider the
            > consecrations of Hieromonks Dionisy, Germogen, Tikhon, and
            Iriney, performed by
            > Archbishop Lazar and Bishop Veniamin, to be illicit, and I
            declare that I have no
            > prayerful or liturgical communion with them.”
            > Thus, neither the Synod of ROCOR under Metropolitan Laurus nor
            the “Synod”
            > of Metropolitan Vitaly recognized the self-proclaimed assertion
            of Tikhon
            > Pasechnik that he is a canonical bishop of the Holy Church,
            especially that he
            > is a supposed heir to the Catacomb Church in Russia. That means,
            logically,
            > that the organization headed by Pasechnik and which he calls the
            “Russian
            > True-Orthodox Church” has no basis to consider itself to be the
            Church, since it
            > has neither historical succession nor a legitimate or canonical
            foundation,
            > which means that it does not have the grace to be the Church.
            > In conclusion, it is important to emphasize two principles which
            guide the
            > Church since the time of Holy Pentecost. First, there is the
            understanding of
            > subordination. The fullness of grace in the Church abides in the
            hierarchs
            > who form an unbroken chain of Apostolic succession, and receiving
            the Grace of
            > the Holy Spirit, they pass it on from one generation of hierarchs
            to another.
            > The essence of the episcopacy is collegiality, where each
            hierarch serves in
            > accordance with the other hierarchs, and does nothing which might
            disturb
            > the harmony of the Church. In the Russian Church we call this
            sobornost' . In
            > this collegial system every hierarch has his rights and
            obligations, and he is
            > likewise responsible to all the other hierarchs so that his
            actions do not
            > violate the oneness of mind of the Church and create a schism.
            > This means that every hierarch governs his diocese in accordance
            with the
            > accepted canons, but he is responsible before his fellow
            hierarchs, who
            > themselves comprise a Synod or a Council of the region or
            jurisdiction to which it
            > belongs. At his consecration, every hierarch vows to preserve the
            Unity of the
            > Church. Departure from ones lawful superior to whom one is bound
            by an oath
            > of loyalty, without a canonical release, is considered a
            violation of the
            > canons, which are the laws of the Church, and therefore,
            uncanonical. The
            > punishment for such a violation of (Church) discipline is the
            suspension from
            > serving, awaiting full repentance for the sin; but if the bishop
            ignores the
            > suspension and continues his uncanonical actions, he is subject
            to a trial by his
            > peers, and can be deprived of his hierarchal rank. Such rules
            exist also for
            > priests and deacons who unlawfully leave the jurisdiction of
            their hierarch,
            > with whom they are spiritually bound through their priestly oath
            of loyalty.
            > They are likewise subject to suspension from serving, and in the
            case of
            > non-compliance, with defrocking. The principle of Church
            subordination pertains
            > to all clergymen. Neither a patriarch, nor a bishop, nor a
            priest, nor a
            > deacon, nor a layman can be above the Unity of the Holy Church.
            > Second, there is the understanding of schism. Schism stands in
            opposition to
            > the collegial governing of the Church, and in the words of the
            Holy Fathers,
            > it is a “rending of Christ's garment.” St. John Chrysostom
            strictly warns
            > that the sin of schism is not washed away even with the blood of
            martyrdom.
            > Therefore, any schism in the Church is uncanonical. Schism cannot
            be justified
            > either with personal opinion or self-justification.
            > Those who have gone over to the “Suzdalites,” or the
            “Lazarites,” or the “
            > Mansonvillites,” or to the “Russian True-Orthodox Church,”
            the contemporary
            > false-“Tikhonites”â€"they have all fallen away from the
            canonical Russian
            > Church. They have done this by neglecting their vows of loyalty,
            given by them at
            > their ordination, thereby rending the Garment of Christ. Their
            sin is made
            > worse by the fact that they have led some from the flock of
            Christ into the
            > schism. It is worthy of pity that many laymen, being innocent
            souls, have
            > trusted unworthy men, and have ended up outside the walls of the
            saving Grace of
            > the Holy Church, until the time of repentance and turning back.
            > The evil enemy of mankind sows dissension and division in the
            Church in
            > order to catch souls. In times of temptations a pure mind and a
            strong heart are
            > needed in order to defend the Unity of the Church. If this or
            that event
            > leads a person away from obedience to his hierarch in search of
            new, sometimes
            > exotic alternatives, this will always be uncanonical and illegal.
            If the
            > actions of a man lead him outside the boundaries of the Church,
            that person is
            > already outside the Church, and there is no other alternative.
            There is no list
            > of Churches, for him to choose which one he likes. There is only
            One, Holy,
            > Catholic and Apostolic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit.
            >
            >
            >
            > ************************************** See what's free at
            http://www.aol.com
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • boulia_1
            ... And therein lies the problem and the flaw in your reasoning. Apostolic succession comes from SOBORNOST -- not from one bishop to another (this is not
            Message 5 of 8 , May 1, 2007
              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
              <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear List,
              >
              > Some say it is a lie that B.Tikhon was made bishop by
              > Metr.Vitaly, but the line of succession of consecrations for all
              > the bishops in Bishop Lazar's jurisdiction and Bishop Tikhon all
              > stem from ROCOR's Metr.Vitaly.


              And therein lies the problem and the flaw in your reasoning.
              Apostolic succession comes from SOBORNOST -- not from one bishop to
              another (this is not ecclesiastical primogeniture!) but from the
              sobor of bishops. Consecrations cannot be made willy-nilly on a whim
              of a sole bishop.

              Promulgating arguments to the contrary plays to the wishful thinking
              of those who are trying to justify schism because they are afraid of
              change.


              CHRIST IS RISEN!

              --Elizabeth A. Ledkovsky
            • Victor
              Sorry to disagree, Father Archimandrite Kiprian NEVER said a word in English, French maybe, but not English! How you can quote him is astonishing! DVL
              Message 6 of 8 , May 2, 2007
                Sorry to disagree, Father Archimandrite Kiprian NEVER said a word in
                English, French maybe, but not English! How you can quote him is
                astonishing!
                DVL

                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear List,
                >
                > Some say it is a lie that B.Tikhon was made bishop by
                > Metr.Vitaly, but the line of succession of consecrations for all
                > the bishops in Bishop Lazar's jurisdiction and Bishop Tikhon all
                > stem from ROCOR's Metr.Vitaly.
                >
                > The line of succession of consecration for Patr. AlexeyII and the
                > bishops of MP all stem from Metr. Sergiy , Pimen, etc...which our
                > Synod Resolution of 1971 stated was invalid.
                >
                > Given the choices, Bishop Tikhon is a much better choice and one
                > that our new Russian Martyrs would have no doubt taken.
                >
                > Michael N
                >
                > P.S. Fr. Kiprian, from Jordanville taught us, summer boys, not to
                > say "he lied", but instead to say "he is not telling the truth".
                > The former ,he said, is truck drivers language and he was no
                > English teacher.
                >
                >
                > --- matanna@... wrote:
                >
                > > Christ is risen!
                > > The person posting as Mike Nikitin quoted someone as saying:
                > >
                > > >We must note that Bishop Tichon was made a bishop by the late
                > > Met. Vitaly. So he is still part of the ROCA church. <
                > >
                > > This is a lie.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
              • Fr. Gregory Williams
                Sorry ‹ Fr. Kiprian most decidedly said quite a number of words in English to me and my family. In Christ Jesus, Fr. Gregory Williams * * * * * * * * * * * *
                Message 7 of 8 , May 2, 2007
                  Sorry ‹ Fr. Kiprian most decidedly said quite a number of words in English
                  to me and my family.


                  In Christ Jesus,
                  Fr. Gregory Williams

                  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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