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Re: You know, Basil, you write like a Soviet

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  • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
    He was a kid, do the math! ... Lenin coinage. ... his father on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev recruiting russian POW into ROA ... the war
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 31, 2007
      He was a kid, do the math!



      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@...> wrote:
      >
      > And you Vovchik write like a proverbial "usefull idiot" to use mr.
      Lenin coinage.
      >
      > Ridiger was actively cooperating with nazis in WW2 working with
      his father on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev
      recruiting russian POW into ROA
      >
      > Thousands of russian nazi collaborators (freedom fighters?) after
      the war were shot for much less that that, the rest got 10 years in
      gulag. Ridiger goes on with his life in USSR like nothing happened
      and gets a biships hat in 1961 and a job of MP chief operating
      officer shortly thereafter.
      >
      > You tell me who he really is working for and how formally
      recognizing him as a spiritual head will benefit ROCOR and prevent it
      from becomming an irrelevant ethnic club, c'mon Vova give me a break
      >
      > GT
      >
      >
      > antiquariu@... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 3/30/2007 8:45:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      > byakimov@... writes:
      >
      > The fact that the leadership posts of the Patriarchate continue to
      be
      > occupied by agents of the KGB, such as Patriarch Alexy II himself,
      is well
      > documented by Mitrokhin, the Estonian archives, Kalugin and others.
      >
      > You know, Basil, you write like a Soviet. None of this is a fact,
      and none
      > of this is documented. Mitrokhin engages in regular hyperbole,
      Kalugin never
      > showed any documentation, and I worked with Kalugin's material, and
      it does
      > not address this. Estonian archives? Once again, the rantings of a
      > defrocked priest, who has all-around discredited himself. (That's
      Mr. Yakimov I'm
      > talking about.) NO one has provided any independently verifiable
      evidence of
      > any of this. The thing that you and all of your ilk don't seem to
      comprehend,
      > and I'm really disappointed that your bishop has not clued into
      this, is
      > that saying something a thousand times only makes it true it it's
      the Jesus
      > Prayer. As we say in hamburger land, "Where's the beef?"
      >
      > I was wondering how long it would take you to break your Lenten
      silence on
      > this topic; I recommend you just place your message archive on
      autosend,
      > because you never do change anything, and you certainly never
      provide any real
      > evidence.
      >
      > That being said, "s nastupayushchim prazdnikom voskreseniya
      Khristago!"
      >
      > Vova H.
      >
      > ************************************** See what's free at
      http://www.aol.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
    • Fr Michael Protopopov
      I don t know who you are Gene703, but it is obvious that you are not of our kind. I find your message offensive, your references to Nazi collaborators are a
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 31, 2007
        I don't know who you are Gene703, but it is obvious that you are not of our kind. I find your message offensive, your references to Nazi collaborators are a disgrace. What are you doing on a forum that has anything to do with Orthodox or Synod? In all Christian charity, this being the beginning of Passion Week, I can only say - go away and after the signing of the Act of Canonical Communion, stay away! Kritin!!
        Fr Michael

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: gene703
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 2:09 AM
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] You know, Basil, you write like a Soviet


        And you Vovchik write like a proverbial "usefull idiot" to use mr. Lenin coinage.

        Ridiger was actively cooperating with nazis in WW2 working with his father on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev recruiting russian POW into ROA

        Thousands of russian nazi collaborators (freedom fighters?) after the war were shot for much less that that, the rest got 10 years in gulag. Ridiger goes on with his life in USSR like nothing happened and gets a biships hat in 1961 and a job of MP chief operating officer shortly thereafter.

        You tell me who he really is working for and how formally recognizing him as a spiritual head will benefit ROCOR and prevent it from becomming an irrelevant ethnic club, c'mon Vova give me a break

        GT


        antiquariu@... wrote:

        In a message dated 3/30/2007 8:45:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        byakimov@... writes:

        The fact that the leadership posts of the Patriarchate continue to be
        occupied by agents of the KGB, such as Patriarch Alexy II himself, is well
        documented by Mitrokhin, the Estonian archives, Kalugin and others.

        You know, Basil, you write like a Soviet. None of this is a fact, and none
        of this is documented. Mitrokhin engages in regular hyperbole, Kalugin never
        showed any documentation, and I worked with Kalugin's material, and it does
        not address this. Estonian archives? Once again, the rantings of a
        defrocked priest, who has all-around discredited himself. (That's Mr. Yakimov I'm
        talking about.) NO one has provided any independently verifiable evidence of
        any of this. The thing that you and all of your ilk don't seem to comprehend,
        and I'm really disappointed that your bishop has not clued into this, is
        that saying something a thousand times only makes it true it it's the Jesus
        Prayer. As we say in hamburger land, "Where's the beef?"

        I was wondering how long it would take you to break your Lenten silence on
        this topic; I recommend you just place your message archive on autosend,
        because you never do change anything, and you certainly never provide any real
        evidence.

        That being said, "s nastupayushchim prazdnikom voskreseniya Khristago!"

        Vova H.

        ************************************** See what's free at MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.aol.com." claiming to be http://www.aol.com

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      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        antiquariu@... wrote: ...on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev recruiting russian POW into ROA Thousands of russian nazi collaborators...
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 1, 2007
          antiquariu@... wrote:
          "...on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev recruiting
          russian POW into ROA Thousands of russian nazi collaborators..."
          GT
          _________________________________________________________
          Vlassov and his Russian Liberation movement and Army were not "Nazi
          collaborators", they were men who were willing and did risk their
          lives in an attempt to free their homeland from the most vicious,
          murderous and diabolical regime that ever existed, putting Hitler's
          horrendous crimes against humanity into a far second place in modern
          history. The men who joined Vlassov knew very well that for the crime
          of just having been captured by the enemy, returning to the Soviet
          Union they were sure to get a sentence in the Gulag, if not a bullet
          to the back of their heads in thanks for their service to the Soviet
          system. The hope was that after the Communist Government in Russia
          was overthrown, they would be able to deal with the Nazis and free
          themselves. There were also Russians who joined the Volunteer Army
          (Dobrov'olcheskay Armea) they served mostly in Yugoslavia, they also
          were not in favor of the Nazis but hoped to free Russia from Soviet
          rule and then deal with the Nazis afterwards. Vlassov was tried as a
          traitor and hung alive on a meat hook to die; his officers were cast
          alive into furnaces. Britain and the US made a deal with Stalin to
          repatriate Russians, mostly Cossacks and their families, and these
          heroic soldiers mentioned above. They were hauled off to the Soviet
          Union and just across the border into the country, some of them were
          sawed in half at lumber yards, others summarily shot and others sent
          off to rot in concentration camps. One of the official government
          names of these secret actions of deceit and betrayal of these anti-
          communist heroes was called Operation Keel Haul! Archpriest Alexander
          Kiselev is a great priest of the Orthodox Church and was NO NAZI
          COLABORATOR; he was loved and respected by the Russian Orthodox
          émigrés. He also returned to Russia and lived there the last years of
          his life. Having fought against Communism all his life long---with
          his great oratory talent and with his pen, he would not have done
          this if he suspected that Patriarch Alexei II, who served as an altar
          boy to him, was a KGB Agent!
          Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko




          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, antiquariu@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 3/31/2007 3:46:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          > gene703@... writes:
          >
          > And you Vovchik write like a proverbial "usefull idiot" to use mr.
          Lenin
          > coinage.
          >
          > Ridiger was actively cooperating with nazis in WW2 working with
          his father
          > on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev recruiting
          russian POW
          > into ROA
          >
          > Thousands of russian nazi collaborators (freedom fighters?) after
          the war
          > were shot for much less that that, the rest got 10 years in gulag.
          Ridiger goes
          > on with his life in USSR like nothing happened and gets a biships
          hat in
          > 1961 and a job of MP chief operating officer shortly thereafter.
          >
          > You tell me who he really is working for and how formally
          recognizing him as
          > a spiritual head will benefit ROCOR and prevent it from becomming
          an
          > irrelevant ethnic club, c'mon Vova give me a break
          >
          > GT
          >
        • Nicolas de Brevern
          Bravo for Your historic answer Father. But for All, be more quiet in this week ! PRAY for our salvation, not for discord ! I am also not for staying under MP,
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
            Bravo for Your historic answer Father.

            But for All, be more quiet in this week ! PRAY for our salvation, not for
            discord !

            I am also not for staying under MP, because I live in Europa, and I now so
            well the "work" of old soviet people and the new federal russian people, and
            its not the very good exemple of life virtue.

            But its not a reason for be a bad christian.

            Pray for enemies but do not stay in union with them. Our work is missionary
            not submission.

            Church is a poor organism not "panfosnii zrelichie", we are not like
            catholic Vatican and we are not a state (with money and stamp), or a
            goverment.

            Orthodox Church is people serving God for our salvation, not for
            govermental, political or personal interes (like catholic crusaders who
            serving catholic Pope).

            Nicola� B.



            -----Message d'origine-----
            De : orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com [mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com]
            De la part de Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            Envoy� : lundi 2 avril 2007 00:49
            � : orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            Objet : [orthodox-synod] Re: You know, Basil, you write like a Soviet



            antiquariu@... wrote:
            "...on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev recruiting
            russian POW into ROA Thousands of russian nazi collaborators..."
            GT
            _________________________________________________________
            Vlassov and his Russian Liberation movement and Army were not "Nazi
            collaborators", they were men who were willing and did risk their
            lives in an attempt to free their homeland from the most vicious,
            murderous and diabolical regime that ever existed, putting Hitler's
            horrendous crimes against humanity into a far second place in modern
            history. The men who joined Vlassov knew very well that for the crime
            of just having been captured by the enemy, returning to the Soviet
            Union they were sure to get a sentence in the Gulag, if not a bullet
            to the back of their heads in thanks for their service to the Soviet
            system. The hope was that after the Communist Government in Russia
            was overthrown, they would be able to deal with the Nazis and free
            themselves. There were also Russians who joined the Volunteer Army
            (Dobrov'olcheskay Armea) they served mostly in Yugoslavia, they also
            were not in favor of the Nazis but hoped to free Russia from Soviet
            rule and then deal with the Nazis afterwards. Vlassov was tried as a
            traitor and hung alive on a meat hook to die; his officers were cast
            alive into furnaces. Britain and the US made a deal with Stalin to
            repatriate Russians, mostly Cossacks and their families, and these
            heroic soldiers mentioned above. They were hauled off to the Soviet
            Union and just across the border into the country, some of them were
            sawed in half at lumber yards, others summarily shot and others sent
            off to rot in concentration camps. One of the official government
            names of these secret actions of deceit and betrayal of these anti-
            communist heroes was called Operation Keel Haul! Archpriest Alexander
            Kiselev is a great priest of the Orthodox Church and was NO NAZI
            COLABORATOR; he was loved and respected by the Russian Orthodox
            �migr�s. He also returned to Russia and lived there the last years of
            his life. Having fought against Communism all his life long---with
            his great oratory talent and with his pen, he would not have done
            this if he suspected that Patriarch Alexei II, who served as an altar
            boy to him, was a KGB Agent!
            Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

            --- In orthodox-synod@ <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com, antiquariu@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 3/31/2007 3:46:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            > gene703@... writes:
            >
            > And you Vovchik write like a proverbial "usefull idiot" to use mr.
            Lenin
            > coinage.
            >
            > Ridiger was actively cooperating with nazis in WW2 working with
            his father
            > on the team headed by Vlasov personal priest Kisilev recruiting
            russian POW
            > into ROA
            >
            > Thousands of russian nazi collaborators (freedom fighters?) after
            the war
            > were shot for much less that that, the rest got 10 years in gulag.
            Ridiger goes
            > on with his life in USSR like nothing happened and gets a biships
            hat in
            > 1961 and a job of MP chief operating officer shortly thereafter.
            >
            > You tell me who he really is working for and how formally
            recognizing him as
            > a spiritual head will benefit ROCOR and prevent it from becomming
            an
            > irrelevant ethnic club, c'mon Vova give me a break
            >
            > GT
            >





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