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The sadness continues.. chaos caused by the dialogue committee .. with the MP

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  • Basil Yakimov
    ROM: Archbishop Chrysostomos TO: Clergy of the Orthodox Church of Greece, Synod in Resistance (American Exarchate) Re.: Holy Trinity Eastern Orthodox Church,
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      ROM: Archbishop Chrysostomos
      TO: Clergy of the Orthodox Church of Greece, Synod in Resistance (American Exarchate)
      Re.: Holy Trinity Eastern Orthodox Church, Oxnard, CA


      Evlogia Kyriou. Sas evchomai "Kale Tessarakoste" kai "Kalo Pascha"!
      May God bless you. I wish you a "Good Lent" and "Happy Pascha"!

      I would like to inform you that, with the blessing of Metropolitan Cyprian, the Russian community of the Holy Trinity (Svyato-Troitskii Chram) in Oxnard, California, a parish of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad/Outside Russia (ROCA/ROCOR), has been received into the American Exarchate of our Church. After a formal request from the Church Board and the parish made through the Church warden, Bishop Auxentios and I, having consulted our Synod of Bishops, will relay to the parish and its attorney, today, this fact.

      The Holy Trinity parish worships in a beautiful Church (2784 Alvarado St., Oxnard, CA 93030-1735), frescoed in Byzantine style, with a Church hall and a two-bedroom apartment on the Church property that serves as a guest house. Most of the founders of the parish are Russian immigrants in their nineties and distinguished by their piety and dedication to the Eastern Orthodox Church's traditions. Since it was their generation of Russians who provided us Greek Old Calendarists with our Bishops, when the last of the Greek Old Calendarist Hierarchs, Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina, died, we are deeply honored, at this difficult time in the history of the Russian Church Abroad, to provide refuge to these brothers and sisters in Christ and to their parish, the Russian traditions of which we will honor with special gratitude. I would ask that you all pray for this sister community and offer them your words of support.

      In seceding from the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, the Holy Trinity parish very appropriately and commendably conveyed to the ruling Hierarch of that Church in the Western U.S. its inability to accept, in good conscience, the decision to unite with the Moscow Patriarchate and "world Orthodoxy," with all of the theological, ethical, and other compromises that such a union entails. The parish did so with an affirmation that, in making such a move, it was not abrogating the respect which it holds for its former Bishops and Priests or its recognition of "their lineage from the Apostles."

      As its petition for acceptance into our jurisdiction clearly states, the parish made its move simply because the "act of joining and subjecting themselves to the Moscow Patriarchate," on the part of the Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, "goes against our beliefs." It is also significant that several parish members have government security clearances that would be jeopardized by affiliations with the Moscow Patriarchate, a practical matter that underscores the imprudence, in the eyes of many, of this unfortunate decision of the Church Abroad.

      In this action, the Svyato-Troitskii Chram followed very much our own thinking in conveying to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad our apprehensions about its present course, which protest from us prompted the Church Abroad to break communion with our Bishops (and this on pretenses that were lamentable, at best) and our Sister Churches in Romania and Bulgaria last year. The parish's move also joins them to the St. Edward Brotherhood and the Annunciation Convent in England, which petitioned to be received by our Church when they, too, found that they could not follow the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad into union with the Moscow Patriarchate.

      Though we adamantly disagree with the course of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad and its union with Moscow, profoundly regretting what we believe to be a disastrous decision, we have never, as a Church, engaged in any condemnatory statements against it. We certainly do not consider it outside the pale of Orthodoxy and will view it, as we do all who are in communion with so-called "world" (or, more correctly, "worldly") Orthodoxy, as having succumbed to an ecclesiastical ailment against which we have walled ourselves off, sincerely and constantly praying that those infected will one day recover from this spiritual illness and once more restore communion with our Church.

      Unfortunately, when communities and parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad have sought refuge in our Church (and this, I should note, without us ever having, in any way whatsoever, recruited anyone), they have not been granted releases; rather, they have been largely excoriated and condemned or censured for their moves. We cannot recognize such actions, and have, of course, accepted, as the Church allows, those whose consciences have placed them in our hands, ignoring acts of unwise revenge against them. Again, we take it as an honor that we are able to serve these people, to whom we are indebted historically, as I said above, and to whom we are indebted for their inspiring example of fidelity to Church tradition.

      Sadly, for our actions, at least one Bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, with whom we have concelebrated and whom we considered a friend, has written that, despite his respect for us, we (former brothers) are "outside Holy Orthodoxy," that our Mysteries are "null and void," and that those who avail themselves of our ministrations do so unto their "condemnation" and not for "salvation." We can only hope that these words were either demanded of this Bishop by his new administrative authorities in Moscow or that he uttered them on the "spur of the moment" and out of the anger that our human weakness often inspires. Whatever the case, these are not things that we would ever say about our former brothers, and, if the move of some communities to our jurisdiction should provoke such reactions, we urge our clergy to avoid any vituperative language and to ask their faithful to do likewise.

      I should reiterate, strongly, that we do not recognize any of the suspensions or excommunications imposed on those who, in following their consciences, have taken refuge in our Church, now that the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has officially revealed its union with Moscow. The misuse of Church Canons and the idea of obedience in such a way as to punish individuals for following their consciences is contrary to the freedom of Christianity. In advising peace and a Christian spirit in the situation that faces us, therefore, I am absolutely not suggesting that we should pay heed, in our silence, to those who would condemn the courageous people who have come to us from the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad or who would condemn us for acting in the only way that we can in upholding our duties to Christ and the Church.

      In an Orthodox atmosphere where slander, character assassination, every sort of lie about this-or-that clergyman, and open attacks pitting one faction in the Church against another (with no respect for facts and the truth) abound (and especially on the "Orthodox" forums on the Internet), the last thing that we should do is engage anyone in defending ourselves in such a way as to encourage this awful atmosphere. In other words, we should do everything in a Christian manner, apologizing if our acts of conscience hurt or offend others and accepting with silence those who would condemn us for acting in an upright way. May Christ, the Theotokos, and the Saints confirm us in this quiet acceptance.

      In providing the Holy Trinity Parish, which dismissed its pro-unionist Priest before coming to us, with services, I may have to impose on all of the clergy to one extent or another, though the Church Warden and I have discussed at least one possibility for a permanent solution of their need for a Priest that I hope will come to fruition. Naturally, I want to provide them with someone who comes from their own ethnic background, so as to continue in the tradition which is familiar and dear to them, as the Church, in its universal and catholic witness allows.



      ---------------------------------
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      with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • morechoff@aol.com
      This is just crazy... They went from a parish with a priest to one without a priest. What are they going to do for Holy Week and Pascha? They are bound to
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
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        This is just crazy... They went from a parish with a priest to one without a priest. What are they going to do for Holy Week and Pascha? They are bound to lose parishioners due to this as well.

        I don't see how joing MP is going to jeopardize anyones government security clearance. Does not make much sense to me.

        Synod in Resistance I am sure does not have enough priests as it is to absorb another parish.
        This is all very sad but I am willing to bet it is all tempoary. The parishes leaving ROCOR will come back in due time!

        Mike Orechoff


        -----Original Message-----
        From: byakimov@...
        To: rocaclergy@yahoogroups.com; orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 3:39 AM
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] The sadness continues.. chaos caused by the dialogue committee .. with the MP


        ROM: Archbishop Chrysostomos
        TO: Clergy of the Orthodox Church of Greece, Synod in Resistance (American Exarchate)
        Re.: Holy Trinity Eastern Orthodox Church, Oxnard, CA

        Evlogia Kyriou. Sas evchomai "Kale Tessarakoste" kai "Kalo Pascha"!
        May God bless you. I wish you a "Good Lent" and "Happy Pascha"!

        I would like to inform you that, with the blessing of Metropolitan Cyprian, the Russian community of the Holy Trinity (Svyato-Troitskii Chram) in Oxnard, California, a parish of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad/Outside Russia (ROCA/ROCOR), has been received into the American Exarchate of our Church. After a formal request from the Church Board and the parish made through the Church warden, Bishop Auxentios and I, having consulted our Synod of Bishops, will relay to the parish and its attorney, today, this fact.

        The Holy Trinity parish worships in a beautiful Church (2784 Alvarado St., Oxnard, CA 93030-1735), frescoed in Byzantine style, with a Church hall and a two-bedroom apartment on the Church property that serves as a guest house. Most of the founders of the parish are Russian immigrants in their nineties and distinguished by their piety and dedication to the Eastern Orthodox Church's traditions. Since it was their generation of Russians who provided us Greek Old Calendarists with our Bishops, when the last of the Greek Old Calendarist Hierarchs, Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina, died, we are deeply honored, at this difficult time in the history of the Russian Church Abroad, to provide refuge to these brothers and sisters in Christ and to their parish, the Russian traditions of which we will honor with special gratitude. I would ask that you all pray for this sister community and offer them your words of support.

        In seceding from the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, the Holy Trinity parish very appropriately and commendably conveyed to the ruling Hierarch of that Church in the Western U.S. its inability to accept, in good conscience, the decision to unite with the Moscow Patriarchate and "world Orthodoxy," with all of the theological, ethical, and other compromises that such a union entails. The parish did so with an affirmation that, in making such a move, it was not abrogating the respect which it holds for its former Bishops and Priests or its recognition of "their lineage from the Apostles."

        As its petition for acceptance into our jurisdiction clearly states, the parish made its move simply because the "act of joining and subjecting themselves to the Moscow Patriarchate," on the part of the Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, "goes against our beliefs." It is also significant that several parish members have government security clearances that would be jeopardized by affiliations with the Moscow Patriarchate, a practical matter that underscores the imprudence, in the eyes of many, of this unfortunate decision of the Church Abroad.

        In this action, the Svyato-Troitskii Chram followed very much our own thinking in conveying to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad our apprehensions about its present course, which protest from us prompted the Church Abroad to break communion with our Bishops (and this on pretenses that were lamentable, at best) and our Sister Churches in Romania and Bulgaria last year. The parish's move also joins them to the St. Edward Brotherhood and the Annunciation Convent in England, which petitioned to be received by our Church when they, too, found that they could not follow the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad into union with the Moscow Patriarchate.

        Though we adamantly disagree with the course of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad and its union with Moscow, profoundly regretting what we believe to be a disastrous decision, we have never, as a Church, engaged in any condemnatory statements against it. We certainly do not consider it outside the pale of Orthodoxy and will view it, as we do all who are in communion with so-called "world" (or, more correctly, "worldly") Orthodoxy, as having succumbed to an ecclesiastical ailment against which we have walled ourselves off, sincerely and constantly praying that those infected will one day recover from this spiritual illness and once more restore communion with our Church.

        Unfortunately, when communities and parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad have sought refuge in our Church (and this, I should note, without us ever having, in any way whatsoever, recruited anyone), they have not been granted releases; rather, they have been largely excoriated and condemned or censured for their moves. We cannot recognize such actions, and have, of course, accepted, as the Church allows, those whose consciences have placed them in our hands, ignoring acts of unwise revenge against them. Again, we take it as an honor that we are able to serve these people, to whom we are indebted historically, as I said above, and to whom we are indebted for their inspiring example of fidelity to Church tradition.

        Sadly, for our actions, at least one Bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, with whom we have concelebrated and whom we considered a friend, has written that, despite his respect for us, we (former brothers) are "outside Holy Orthodoxy," that our Mysteries are "null and void," and that those who avail themselves of our ministrations do so unto their "condemnation" and not for "salvation." We can only hope that these words were either demanded of this Bishop by his new administrative authorities in Moscow or that he uttered them on the "spur of the moment" and out of the anger that our human weakness often inspires. Whatever the case, these are not things that we would ever say about our former brothers, and, if the move of some communities to our jurisdiction should provoke such reactions, we urge our clergy to avoid any vituperative language and to ask their faithful to do likewise.

        I should reiterate, strongly, that we do not recognize any of the suspensions or excommunications imposed on those who, in following their consciences, have taken refuge in our Church, now that the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has officially revealed its union with Moscow. The misuse of Church Canons and the idea of obedience in such a way as to punish individuals for following their consciences is contrary to the freedom of Christianity. In advising peace and a Christian spirit in the situation that faces us, therefore, I am absolutely not suggesting that we should pay heed, in our silence, to those who would condemn the courageous people who have come to us from the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad or who would condemn us for acting in the only way that we can in upholding our duties to Christ and the Church.

        In an Orthodox atmosphere where slander, character assassination, every sort of lie about this-or-that clergyman, and open attacks pitting one faction in the Church against another (with no respect for facts and the truth) abound (and especially on the "Orthodox" forums on the Internet), the last thing that we should do is engage anyone in defending ourselves in such a way as to encourage this awful atmosphere. In other words, we should do everything in a Christian manner, apologizing if our acts of conscience hurt or offend others and accepting with silence those who would condemn us for acting in an upright way. May Christ, the Theotokos, and the Saints confirm us in this quiet acceptance.

        In providing the Holy Trinity Parish, which dismissed its pro-unionist Priest before coming to us, with services, I may have to impose on all of the clergy to one extent or another, though the Church Warden and I have discussed at least one possibility for a permanent solution of their need for a Priest that I hope will come to fruition. Naturally, I want to provide them with someone who comes from their own ethnic background, so as to continue in the tradition which is familiar and dear to them, as the Church, in its universal and catholic witness allows.

        ---------------------------------
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        with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ________________________________________________________________________
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      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        The OCA Americans did not have their government security clearance jeopardized, and they were in union with Moscow when the Church was under the control of the
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          The OCA Americans did not have their government security clearance
          jeopardized, and they were in union with Moscow when the Church was
          under the control of the Soviet Union--- the "Evil Empire", now the
          Church in Russia if free!
          Archpriest Stefamn Pavlenko



          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, morechoff@... wrote:
          >
          > This is just crazy... They went from a parish with a priest to one
          without a priest. What are they going to do for Holy Week and
          Pascha? They are bound to lose parishioners due to this as well.
          >
          > I don't see how joing MP is going to jeopardize anyones government
          security clearance. Does not make much sense to me.
          >
          > Synod in Resistance I am sure does not have enough priests as it is
          to absorb another parish.
          > This is all very sad but I am willing to bet it is all tempoary.
          The parishes leaving ROCOR will come back in due time!
          >
          > Mike Orechoff
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: byakimov@...
          > To: rocaclergy@yahoogroups.com; orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 3:39 AM
          > Subject: [orthodox-synod] The sadness continues.. chaos caused by
          the dialogue committee .. with the MP
          >
          >
          > ROM: Archbishop Chrysostomos
          > TO: Clergy of the Orthodox Church of Greece, Synod in Resistance
          (American Exarchate)
          > Re.: Holy Trinity Eastern Orthodox Church, Oxnard, CA
          >
          > Evlogia Kyriou. Sas evchomai "Kale Tessarakoste" kai "Kalo Pascha"!
          > May God bless you. I wish you a "Good Lent" and "Happy Pascha"!
          >
          > I would like to inform you that, with the blessing of Metropolitan
          Cyprian, the Russian community of the Holy Trinity (Svyato-Troitskii
          Chram) in Oxnard, California, a parish of the Russian Orthodox Church
          Abroad/Outside Russia (ROCA/ROCOR), has been received into the
          American Exarchate of our Church. After a formal request from the
          Church Board and the parish made through the Church warden, Bishop
          Auxentios and I, having consulted our Synod of Bishops, will relay to
          the parish and its attorney, today, this fact.
          >
          > The Holy Trinity parish worships in a beautiful Church (2784
          Alvarado St., Oxnard, CA 93030-1735), frescoed in Byzantine style,
          with a Church hall and a two-bedroom apartment on the Church property
          that serves as a guest house. Most of the founders of the parish are
          Russian immigrants in their nineties and distinguished by their piety
          and dedication to the Eastern Orthodox Church's traditions. Since it
          was their generation of Russians who provided us Greek Old
          Calendarists with our Bishops, when the last of the Greek Old
          Calendarist Hierarchs, Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina, died, we
          are deeply honored, at this difficult time in the history of the
          Russian Church Abroad, to provide refuge to these brothers and
          sisters in Christ and to their parish, the Russian traditions of
          which we will honor with special gratitude. I would ask that you all
          pray for this sister community and offer them your words of support.
          >
          > In seceding from the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, the Holy
          Trinity parish very appropriately and commendably conveyed to the
          ruling Hierarch of that Church in the Western U.S. its inability to
          accept, in good conscience, the decision to unite with the Moscow
          Patriarchate and "world Orthodoxy," with all of the theological,
          ethical, and other compromises that such a union entails. The parish
          did so with an affirmation that, in making such a move, it was not
          abrogating the respect which it holds for its former Bishops and
          Priests or its recognition of "their lineage from the Apostles."
          >
          > As its petition for acceptance into our jurisdiction clearly
          states, the parish made its move simply because the "act of joining
          and subjecting themselves to the Moscow Patriarchate," on the part of
          the Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, "goes against our
          beliefs." It is also significant that several parish members have
          government security clearances that would be jeopardized by
          affiliations with the Moscow Patriarchate, a practical matter that
          underscores the imprudence, in the eyes of many, of this unfortunate
          decision of the Church Abroad.
          >
          > In this action, the Svyato-Troitskii Chram followed very much our
          own thinking in conveying to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad our
          apprehensions about its present course, which protest from us
          prompted the Church Abroad to break communion with our Bishops (and
          this on pretenses that were lamentable, at best) and our Sister
          Churches in Romania and Bulgaria last year. The parish's move also
          joins them to the St. Edward Brotherhood and the Annunciation Convent
          in England, which petitioned to be received by our Church when they,
          too, found that they could not follow the Russian Orthodox Church
          Abroad into union with the Moscow Patriarchate.
          >
          > Though we adamantly disagree with the course of the Russian
          Orthodox Church Abroad and its union with Moscow, profoundly
          regretting what we believe to be a disastrous decision, we have
          never, as a Church, engaged in any condemnatory statements against
          it. We certainly do not consider it outside the pale of Orthodoxy and
          will view it, as we do all who are in communion with so-
          called "world" (or, more correctly, "worldly") Orthodoxy, as having
          succumbed to an ecclesiastical ailment against which we have walled
          ourselves off, sincerely and constantly praying that those infected
          will one day recover from this spiritual illness and once more
          restore communion with our Church.
          >
          > Unfortunately, when communities and parishes of the Russian
          Orthodox Church Abroad have sought refuge in our Church (and this, I
          should note, without us ever having, in any way whatsoever, recruited
          anyone), they have not been granted releases; rather, they have been
          largely excoriated and condemned or censured for their moves. We
          cannot recognize such actions, and have, of course, accepted, as the
          Church allows, those whose consciences have placed them in our hands,
          ignoring acts of unwise revenge against them. Again, we take it as an
          honor that we are able to serve these people, to whom we are indebted
          historically, as I said above, and to whom we are indebted for their
          inspiring example of fidelity to Church tradition.
          >
          > Sadly, for our actions, at least one Bishop of the Russian Orthodox
          Church Abroad, with whom we have concelebrated and whom we considered
          a friend, has written that, despite his respect for us, we (former
          brothers) are "outside Holy Orthodoxy," that our Mysteries are "null
          and void," and that those who avail themselves of our ministrations
          do so unto their "condemnation" and not for "salvation." We can only
          hope that these words were either demanded of this Bishop by his new
          administrative authorities in Moscow or that he uttered them on
          the "spur of the moment" and out of the anger that our human weakness
          often inspires. Whatever the case, these are not things that we would
          ever say about our former brothers, and, if the move of some
          communities to our jurisdiction should provoke such reactions, we
          urge our clergy to avoid any vituperative language and to ask their
          faithful to do likewise.
          >
          > I should reiterate, strongly, that we do not recognize any of the
          suspensions or excommunications imposed on those who, in following
          their consciences, have taken refuge in our Church, now that the
          Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has officially revealed its union with
          Moscow. The misuse of Church Canons and the idea of obedience in such
          a way as to punish individuals for following their consciences is
          contrary to the freedom of Christianity. In advising peace and a
          Christian spirit in the situation that faces us, therefore, I am
          absolutely not suggesting that we should pay heed, in our silence, to
          those who would condemn the courageous people who have come to us
          from the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad or who would condemn us for
          acting in the only way that we can in upholding our duties to Christ
          and the Church.
          >
          > In an Orthodox atmosphere where slander, character assassination,
          every sort of lie about this-or-that clergyman, and open attacks
          pitting one faction in the Church against another (with no respect
          for facts and the truth) abound (and especially on the "Orthodox"
          forums on the Internet), the last thing that we should do is engage
          anyone in defending ourselves in such a way as to encourage this
          awful atmosphere. In other words, we should do everything in a
          Christian manner, apologizing if our acts of conscience hurt or
          offend others and accepting with silence those who would condemn us
          for acting in an upright way. May Christ, the Theotokos, and the
          Saints confirm us in this quiet acceptance.
          >
          > In providing the Holy Trinity Parish, which dismissed its pro-
          unionist Priest before coming to us, with services, I may have to
          impose on all of the clergy to one extent or another, though the
          Church Warden and I have discussed at least one possibility for a
          permanent solution of their need for a Priest that I hope will come
          to fruition. Naturally, I want to provide them with someone who comes
          from their own ethnic background, so as to continue in the tradition
          which is familiar and dear to them, as the Church, in its universal
          and catholic witness allows.
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
          > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          __
          > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
          free from AOL at AOL.com.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • David-Constantine Wright
          ... The OCA did not and does not need Moscow s approval for the election of its hierarchs and First Hierarch, unlike what will be the case with ROCOR after 17
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 31, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
            <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
            >
            > The OCA Americans did not have their government security clearance
            > jeopardized, and they were in union with Moscow when the Church was
            > under the control of the Soviet Union--- the "Evil Empire", now the

            The OCA did not and does not need Moscow's approval for the election
            of its hierarchs and First Hierarch, unlike what will be the case
            with ROCOR after 17 May.

            I don't understand your comment about "security clearances".

            In Christ Made Flesh,
            Rd. DC

            +------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Reader David-Constantine Wright |
            | http://constans_wright.tripod.com |
            +------------------------------------------------------------+
            | "God became Human so that human beings could become gods." |
            | ---- St. Athanasius the Great, *On the Incarnation* |
            +------------------------------------------------------------+
          • vlutchenkov
            ... was ... the ... Father Bless, Okay. So, clearances were not an issue or a concern for ROCOR when OCA was granted Autocephaly. Then can you please tell us
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 31, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
              <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
              >
              > The OCA Americans did not have their government security clearance
              > jeopardized, and they were in union with Moscow when the Church
              was
              > under the control of the Soviet Union--- the "Evil Empire", now
              the
              > Church in Russia if free!
              > Archpriest Stefamn Pavlenko

              Father Bless,

              Okay. So, clearances were not an issue or a concern for ROCOR when
              OCA was granted Autocephaly. Then can you please tell us why you or
              any other ROCOR priest were not allowed by your hierarchs to
              concelebrate with the OCA priest in your city? What was the reason?

              Vova L.

              PS. I respectfully ask that no one else get on this thread for a
              while. Please allow it to run its course. Lurk, watch, stew,
              (remember its Lent though), take notes, etc., but let us have the
              opportunity to have an exchange one on one just for a bit. Thank
              you.
            • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
              American Citizens who work for the government in sensitive areas need to have and protect their Security Clearances; if you are suspected of being in a
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 31, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                American Citizens who work for the government in sensitive areas need
                to have and protect their Security Clearances; if you are suspected
                of being in a subversive organization you could loose your clearance
                and your job. The American Metropolia had to have direct contacts
                with the Moscow Patriarchate to broker her Autocephaly and this in
                the time when the Soviet-Evil Empire had its grip on the Church in
                Russia. And no one lost their clearances! Why would now, when the
                Church in Russia calls its own shots, it be more of a security threat?

                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "David-Constantine Wright"
                <constantinewright@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
                > >
                > > The OCA Americans did not have their government security
                clearance
                > > jeopardized, and they were in union with Moscow when the Church
                was
                > > under the control of the Soviet Union--- the "Evil Empire", now
                the
                >
                > The OCA did not and does not need Moscow's approval for the
                election
                > of its hierarchs and First Hierarch, unlike what will be the case
                > with ROCOR after 17 May.
                >
                > I don't understand your comment about "security clearances".
                >
                > In Christ Made Flesh,
                > Rd. DC
                >
                > +------------------------------------------------------------+
                > | Reader David-Constantine Wright |
                > | http://constans_wright.tripod.com |
                > +------------------------------------------------------------+
                > | "God became Human so that human beings could become gods." |
                > | ---- St. Athanasius the Great, *On the Incarnation* |
                > +------------------------------------------------------------+
                >
              • Archpriest David Moser
                ... If you want a 1/1 exchange, then take it private. At least the rest of us won t have to read it. Archpr David Moser
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vlutchenkov" <vlutchenkov@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --
                  > PS. I respectfully ask that no one else get on this thread for a
                  > while. Please allow it to run its course. Lurk, watch, stew,
                  > (remember its Lent though), take notes, etc., but let us have the
                  > opportunity to have an exchange one on one just for a bit. Thank
                  > you.
                  >


                  If you want a 1/1 exchange, then take it private. At least the rest
                  of us won't have to read it.

                  Archpr David Moser
                • vlutchenkov
                  Father Bless, If you noticed I respectfully asked that it be done for a while. There appears to be a tendency on this list to take off on tangents. Thank
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                    Father Bless,

                    If you noticed I "respectfully" asked that it be done for a while.
                    There appears to be a tendency on this list to take off on
                    tangents. Thank you for your courteous input and added value to the
                    discussion.

                    Vova L.


                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest David Moser"
                    <moserd@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vlutchenkov" <vlutchenkov@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > PS. I respectfully ask that no one else get on this thread for
                    a
                    > > while. Please allow it to run its course. Lurk, watch, stew,
                    > > (remember its Lent though), take notes, etc., but let us have
                    the
                    > > opportunity to have an exchange one on one just for a bit.
                    Thank
                    > > you.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > If you want a 1/1 exchange, then take it private. At least the
                    rest
                    > of us won't have to read it.
                    >
                    > Archpr David Moser
                    >
                  • George
                    Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United States? Thanks George
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                      Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United States?

                      Thanks
                      George
                    • Hristofor/ХристофорЪ
                      JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some Russians or Poles living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski tvorog. If you can t
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                        JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some Russians or Poles
                        living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski tvorog. If you
                        can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.



                        On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United States?
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        > George
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • boulia_1
                        In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer s cheese for tvorog... you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but A&P has it at a sale price
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                          you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but A&P
                          has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                          it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency, but
                          the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!

                          --Elizabeth Ledkovsky



                          --- In orthodox-
                          synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                          <hristofor01@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some Russians
                          or Poles
                          > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                          tvorog. If you
                          > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United States?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks
                          > > George
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Vassa Meister
                          For what it s worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya Pascha. It sure saves time and effort! In Christ, Vassa ... A&P ... but ... Russians ...
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                            Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!

                            In Christ,
                            Vassa

                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                            > you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                            A&P
                            > has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                            > it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency,
                            but
                            > the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                            >
                            > --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In orthodox-
                            > synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                            > <hristofor01@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                            Russians
                            > or Poles
                            > > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                            > tvorog. If you
                            > > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                            States?
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks
                            > > > George
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                          • George
                            I m confused. what advantage would the food processor play? (we have one though we rarely use it...) last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha but we
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                              I'm confused.

                              what advantage would the food processor play? (we have one though we rarely use it...)

                              last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha but we couldn't find farmers cheese so we substituted cottage cheese which was hilareously bad. (very wet, wrong taste etc).

                              i did manage to pick up some Freindship brand farmers cheese today but i'm not sure if that's exactly right either...

                              George


                              On Monday, April 02, 2007, at 02:58PM, "Vassa Meister" <vtheb@...> wrote:
                              >For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                              >Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!
                              >
                              >In Christ,
                              >Vassa
                              >
                              >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...>
                              >wrote:
                              >>
                              >> In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                              >> you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                              >A&P
                              >> has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                              >> it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency,
                              >but
                              >> the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                              >>
                              >> --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> --- In orthodox-
                              >> synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                              >> <hristofor01@> wrote:
                              >> >
                              >> > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                              >Russians
                              >> or Poles
                              >> > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                              >> tvorog. If you
                              >> > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                              >States?
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Thanks
                              >> > > George
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Vassa Meister
                              The food processor blends everything together very well and makes the finished product very smooth and creamy. When you put it through a sieve you have to do
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                                The food processor blends everything together very well and makes the
                                finished product very smooth and creamy. When you put it through a
                                sieve you have to do it at least two or more times, the food
                                processor just makes the process so much easier.

                                Vassa

                                -- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I'm confused.
                                >
                                > what advantage would the food processor play? (we have one though
                                we rarely use it...)
                                >
                                > last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha but we couldn't find
                                farmers cheese so we substituted cottage cheese which was hilareously
                                bad. (very wet, wrong taste etc).
                                >
                                > i did manage to pick up some Freindship brand farmers cheese today
                                but i'm not sure if that's exactly right either...
                                >
                                > George
                                >
                                >
                                > On Monday, April 02, 2007, at 02:58PM, "Vassa Meister" <vtheb@...>
                                wrote:
                                > >For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                                > >Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!
                                > >
                                > >In Christ,
                                > >Vassa
                                > >
                                > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@>
                                > >wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >> In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for
                                tvorog...
                                > >> you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                                > >A&P
                                > >> has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to
                                press
                                > >> it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good
                                consistency,
                                > >but
                                > >> the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                                > >>
                                > >> --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> --- In orthodox-
                                > >>
                                synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/Ð¥Ã`€Ð¸Ã`Ã`‚оÃ`„оÃ
                                `€Ðª"
                                > >> <hristofor01@> wrote:
                                > >> >
                                > >> > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                                > >Russians
                                > >> or Poles
                                > >> > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                                > >> tvorog. If you
                                > >> > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                                > >> >
                                > >> >
                                > >> >
                                > >> > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                                > >States?
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > Thanks
                                > >> > > George
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > >
                                > >> >
                                > >> >
                                > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >> >
                                > >>
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Valeria Sajez
                                Dear George, Friendship farmer s cheese is ok. Just be sure to drain it for at least 24hrs in your frig under some weight. You ll be surprised how wet it is.
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                                  Dear George,

                                  Friendship farmer's cheese is ok. Just be sure
                                  to drain it for at least 24hrs in your frig under
                                  some weight. You'll be surprised how wet it is.
                                  It should be of a dry consistancy before you
                                  start making your Sirnaja Pascha. I then put it
                                  through a sieve 2 or 3 times the way my mom
                                  always did. It has a nice smooth grain.

                                  Valeria



                                  >I'm confused.
                                  >
                                  >what advantage would the food processor play?
                                  >(we have one though we rarely use it...)
                                  >
                                  >last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha
                                  >but we couldn't find farmers cheese so we
                                  >substituted cottage cheese which was hilareously
                                  >bad. (very wet, wrong taste etc).
                                  >
                                  >i did manage to pick up some Freindship brand
                                  >farmers cheese today but i'm not sure if that's
                                  >exactly right either...
                                  >
                                  >George
                                  >
                                  >On Monday, April 02, 2007, at 02:58PM, "Vassa
                                  >Meister"
                                  ><<mailto:vtheb%40hotmail.com>vtheb@...>
                                  >wrote:
                                  >>For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                                  >>Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!
                                  >>
                                  >>In Christ,
                                  >>Vassa
                                  >>
                                  >>--- In
                                  >><mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com,
                                  >>"boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...>
                                  >>wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>> In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                                  >>> you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                                  >>A&P
                                  >>> has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                                  >>> it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency,
                                  >>but
                                  >>> the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --- In orthodox-
                                  >>>
                                  >>><mailto:synod%40yahoogroups.com>synod@yahoogroups.com,
                                  >>>"Hristofor/ХѤиÑ?ђАѓАѤЪ"
                                  >>> <hristofor01@> wrote:
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                                  >>Russians
                                  >>> or Poles
                                  >>> > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                                  >>> tvorog. If you
                                  >>> > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                                  >>States?
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > Thanks
                                  >>> > > George
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>> >
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • John
                                  I have always used the Friendship brand available at Stop and Shop and it make a great pascha. You do have to force it through a sieve so be ready to sweat a
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                                    I have always used the Friendship brand available at Stop and Shop
                                    and it make a great pascha. You do have to force it through a sieve
                                    so be ready to sweat a while but it is well worth the effort.

                                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I'm confused.
                                    >
                                    > what advantage would the food processor play? (we have one though
                                    we rarely use it...)
                                    >
                                    > last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha but we couldn't find
                                    farmers cheese so we substituted cottage cheese which was hilareously
                                    bad. (very wet, wrong taste etc).
                                    >
                                    > i did manage to pick up some Freindship brand farmers cheese today
                                    but i'm not sure if that's exactly right either...
                                    >
                                    > George
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Monday, April 02, 2007, at 02:58PM, "Vassa Meister" <vtheb@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > >For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                                    > >Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!
                                    > >
                                    > >In Christ,
                                    > >Vassa
                                    > >
                                    > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@>
                                    > >wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for
                                    tvorog...
                                    > >> you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                                    > >A&P
                                    > >> has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to
                                    press
                                    > >> it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good
                                    consistency,
                                    > >but
                                    > >> the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                                    > >>
                                    > >> --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> --- In orthodox-
                                    > >>
                                    synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/Ð¥Ã`€Ð¸Ã`Ã`‚оÃ`„оÃ
                                    `€Ðª"
                                    > >> <hristofor01@> wrote:
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                                    > >Russians
                                    > >> or Poles
                                    > >> > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                                    > >> tvorog. If you
                                    > >> > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                                    > >> > >
                                    > >> > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                                    > >States?
                                    > >> > >
                                    > >> > > Thanks
                                    > >> > > George
                                    > >> > >
                                    > >> > >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >> >
                                    > >>
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Carol
                                    Recipe found for Tvorog: Have to admit, I am maybe not the best one to know the recipes for Russian foods at all, but found this one and thought it may be
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
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                                      Recipe found for Tvorog:

                                      Have to admit, I am maybe not the best one to know the recipes for Russian foods at all, but found this one and thought it may be helpful for those mentioning the Tvorog: Someone perhaps would be interested.

                                      ( Homemade Farmers Cheese)

                                      1/2 Gal Whole Milk

                                      3 TBLSP of Sour Cream

                                      Place milk and cheese in container ( not plastic)Let stand uncovered, in warm place (use pilot light, ) Until the milk curdles. About 48 hrs...

                                      Line a fine Sieve with several layers of cheesecloth ,. Carefully place the curds , seperated from the whey ,into the sieve. Allow 2 hrs to drain over large bowl.

                                      Plsace large plate over the curds, and a weight, such as a water filled jar, on the plate. Place in refrigerator and let drip until curds dry up, about 8 hours.. ( Less time for creamier cheese, and more for FARMERS CHEESE)

                                      Do not know if helpful but I hope so.

                                      In Christ,

                                      Katherine
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: boulia_1
                                      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:45 AM
                                      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Tvorog


                                      In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                                      you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but A&P
                                      has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                                      it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency, but
                                      the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!

                                      --Elizabeth Ledkovsky

                                      --- In orthodox-
                                      synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                                      <hristofor01@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some Russians
                                      or Poles
                                      > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                                      tvorog. If you
                                      > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United States?
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks
                                      > > George
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Stephen/Στέφανος
                                      I use Friendship Farmer s Cheese every year, and it makes great Syrnaya Pascha! Stephanos
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Apr 2, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I use Friendship Farmer's Cheese every year, and it makes great Syrnaya
                                        Pascha!

                                        Stephanos


                                        George wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I'm confused.
                                        >
                                        > what advantage would the food processor play? (we have one though we
                                        > rarely use it...)
                                        >
                                        > last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha but we couldn't find
                                        > farmers cheese so we substituted cottage cheese which was hilareously
                                        > bad. (very wet, wrong taste etc).
                                        >
                                        > i did manage to pick up some Freindship brand farmers cheese today but
                                        > i'm not sure if that's exactly right either...
                                        >
                                        > George
                                        >
                                        > On Monday, April 02, 2007, at 02:58PM, "Vassa Meister"
                                        > <vtheb@... <mailto:vtheb%40hotmail.com>> wrote:
                                        > >For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                                        > >Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!
                                        > >
                                        > >In Christ,
                                        > >Vassa
                                        > >
                                        > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                        > <mailto:orthodox-synod%40yahoogroups.com>, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...>
                                        > >wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >> In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                                        > >> you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                                        > >A&P
                                        > >> has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                                        > >> it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency,
                                        > >but
                                        > >> the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                                        > >>
                                        > >> --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> --- In orthodox-
                                        > >> synod@yahoogroups.com <mailto:synod%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                        > "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                                        > >> <hristofor01@> wrote:
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                                        > >Russians
                                        > >> or Poles
                                        > >> > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                                        > >> tvorog. If you
                                        > >> > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                                        > >States?
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > Thanks
                                        > >> > > George
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >> >
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • (matushka) Ann Lardas
                                        ... Russian foods at all, but found this one and thought it may be helpful for those mentioning the Tvorog: Someone perhaps would be interested. ... uncovered,
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Apr 3, 2007
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                                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <weaver32@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Recipe found for Tvorog:
                                          >
                                          > Have to admit, I am maybe not the best one to know the recipes for
                                          Russian foods at all, but found this one and thought it may be
                                          helpful for those mentioning the Tvorog: Someone perhaps would be
                                          interested.
                                          >
                                          > ( Homemade Farmers Cheese)
                                          >
                                          > 1/2 Gal Whole Milk
                                          >
                                          > 3 TBLSP of Sour Cream
                                          >
                                          > Place milk and cheese in container ( not plastic)Let stand
                                          uncovered, in warm place (use pilot light, ) Until the milk curdles.
                                          About 48 hrs...
                                          >
                                          > Line a fine Sieve with several layers of cheesecloth ,. Carefully
                                          place the curds , seperated from the whey ,into the sieve. Allow 2
                                          hrs to drain over large bowl.
                                          >
                                          > Plsace large plate over the curds, and a weight, such as a water
                                          filled jar, on the plate. Place in refrigerator and let drip until
                                          curds dry up, about 8 hours.. ( Less time for creamier cheese, and
                                          more for FARMERS CHEESE)
                                          >
                                          > Do not know if helpful but I hope so.
                                          >
                                          > In Christ,
                                          >
                                          > Katherine

                                          In Houston, the ladies gave me a recipe for Farmer's Cheese which
                                          works most years. For some reason this recipe does not work in
                                          California, but in the archives of the Orthodox list you can find Fr.
                                          Alexey Chumakov's recipe for farmer's cheese using California milk.

                                          To make Farmer's Cheese outside of California, you scald one gallon
                                          of milk, remove it from the heat, and pour in one quart of buttermilk
                                          and cover it with cheese cloth or a towel and put it someplace out of
                                          drafts (mine goes behind the coffee maker). You leave it alone for a
                                          day and a night and a day and then put it in the oven on "warm" for
                                          an electric oven or just with the pilot on for a gas oven, overnight,
                                          and in the morning you have a chunk of curd floating in a sea of
                                          whey. When you drain the whey, the rest is the farmer's cheese. But
                                          use cloth (an old pillow case or tee shirt) rather than cheesecloth
                                          to strain it, as the weave on cheese cloth is too wide and the curds
                                          fall out.

                                          One gallon of milk plus one quart of buttermilk make approximately
                                          two and a half pounds of cheese.

                                          Locally, you can get Friendship Farmer's Cheese at Stop and Shop for
                                          prices ranging from $2.39 per pound (Seymore) to $4.09 per pound. In
                                          Texas they sold a Mexican brand of something they called Farmer's
                                          Cheese, but it was a harder cheese and made for a syrnaya pascha that
                                          tasted like salted erasers.

                                          Friends who've used ricotta or cottage cheese drain it in a sieve
                                          overnight and run it through the food processor or grind it through a
                                          sieve after.


                                          Wishing you a joyous upcoming Feast.

                                          In Christ,
                                          Matushka Ann Lardas
                                        • Rebecca M
                                          ... It s a funny thing, but the original recipe I had said to do the sieve thing, and I did it for several years (ouch!). But one year I was really crunched
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Apr 3, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "John" <JDikov@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I have always used the Friendship brand available at Stop and Shop
                                            > and it make a great pascha. You do have to force it through a sieve
                                            > so be ready to sweat a while but it is well worth the effort.
                                            >

                                            It's a funny thing, but the original recipe I had said to do the sieve
                                            thing, and I did it for several years (ouch!). But one year I was
                                            really crunched for time and skipped that step, just breaking it up
                                            finely and (not for the faint of heart) squishing the final mixture
                                            through my fingers so it was completely mixed. The difference in
                                            texture of the result really wasn't great -- and so I started doing it
                                            without the sieve and have made tons of it that way without any
                                            issues. In fact, for a while at my old parish, the production of this
                                            recipe (without sieve) became a huge thing because everyone and their
                                            second cousin wanted some.

                                            Rebecca
                                          • Ekaterina Andreev
                                            I have a really good and easy recipe for the cheese pascha using farmers cheese, please let me know if you want it. Katya George wrote: I m
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Apr 4, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I have a really good and easy recipe for the cheese pascha using farmers cheese, please let me know if you want it.
                                              Katya

                                              George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                                              I'm confused.

                                              what advantage would the food processor play? (we have one though we rarely use it...)

                                              last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha but we couldn't find farmers cheese so we substituted cottage cheese which was hilareously bad. (very wet, wrong taste etc).

                                              i did manage to pick up some Freindship brand farmers cheese today but i'm not sure if that's exactly right either...

                                              George

                                              On Monday, April 02, 2007, at 02:58PM, "Vassa Meister" <vtheb@...> wrote:
                                              >For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                                              >Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!
                                              >
                                              >In Christ,
                                              >Vassa
                                              >
                                              >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...>
                                              >wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                                              >> you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                                              >A&P
                                              >> has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                                              >> it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency,
                                              >but
                                              >> the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                                              >>
                                              >> --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> --- In orthodox-
                                              >> synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                                              >> <hristofor01@> wrote:
                                              >> >
                                              >> > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                                              >Russians
                                              >> or Poles
                                              >> > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                                              >> tvorog. If you
                                              >> > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                                              >States?
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > > Thanks
                                              >> > > George
                                              >> > >
                                              >> > >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >> >
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >





                                              ---------------------------------
                                              Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
                                              with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Ekaterina Andreev
                                              I have a really good and easy recipe for the cheese pascha using farmers cheese, please let me know if you want it. Katya George wrote: I m
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Apr 4, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I have a really good and easy recipe for the cheese pascha using farmers cheese, please let me know if you want it.
                                                Katya

                                                George <kharaku@...> wrote:
                                                I'm confused.

                                                what advantage would the food processor play? (we have one though we rarely use it...)

                                                last year my wife tried to make Sirnaya Pascha but we couldn't find farmers cheese so we substituted cottage cheese which was hilareously bad. (very wet, wrong taste etc).

                                                i did manage to pick up some Freindship brand farmers cheese today but i'm not sure if that's exactly right either...

                                                George

                                                On Monday, April 02, 2007, at 02:58PM, "Vassa Meister" <vtheb@...> wrote:
                                                >For what it's worth I use a food processor to make the Sirnaya
                                                >Pascha. It sure saves time and effort!
                                                >
                                                >In Christ,
                                                >Vassa
                                                >
                                                >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@...>
                                                >wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >> In the States, I use Friendship brand farmer's cheese for tvorog...
                                                >> you have to hunt around, as not all grocery stores carry it (but
                                                >A&P
                                                >> has it at a sale price through next week!) Also, you have to press
                                                >> it through a fine sieve at least twice to get a good consistency,
                                                >but
                                                >> the Sirnaya Pascha that results is really worth the effort!
                                                >>
                                                >> --Elizabeth Ledkovsky
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> --- In orthodox-
                                                >> synod@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                                                >> <hristofor01@> wrote:
                                                >> >
                                                >> > JUst about any Eastern-European store where there are some
                                                >Russians
                                                >> or Poles
                                                >> > living. The Lifeway Co, which makes kefir, sells krestianski
                                                >> tvorog. If you
                                                >> > can't find that, farmer's cheese will also work.
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> > On 4/2/07, George <kharaku@> wrote:
                                                >> > >
                                                >> > > Does anyone know where you can buy tvorog in the United
                                                >States?
                                                >> > >
                                                >> > > Thanks
                                                >> > > George
                                                >> > >
                                                >> > >
                                                >> >
                                                >> >
                                                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >> >
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >





                                                ---------------------------------
                                                Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
                                                with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Carol
                                                Christ Is Risen! Modern, QUICK, but good, recipe for TVOROG: When not able to do traditional. I know this is going to get to everyone after Pascha and hope it
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Apr 7, 2007
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                                                  Christ Is Risen!

                                                  Modern, QUICK, but good, recipe for TVOROG: When not able to do traditional.

                                                  I know this is going to get to everyone after Pascha and hope it was glorious and blessed for all!
                                                  My husband and I ( because of fact that I have chronic illness problems and in so much pain ,needed to find a fast way to make Pascha cheese) We live in a very small town area and not any Greek or Russian stores or places to buy Farmers Cheese, so we thought I should try something,different at such a late notice, and must say it was not bad at all!

                                                  ( Whipped, Cream Cheese, Philadephia brand) Purchase as much as you feel you need, I bought 2 lbs.
                                                  Pascha:
                                                  Then add the pineapple, and /or dried fruits, and the milk and sugar, eggs etc, whatever you would like as per YOUR favorite recipe.

                                                  We also were able to purchase Amish Butter ,from a cheese factory down the road from us. This might have helped some, in the wonderful taste, am not sure, but thought it was not bad, at all, for people who are too ill, or too short of time, to make their own Farmers Cheese. Often people may not able to purchase it! Great substitute! Delicious on the Kulich and/ or Babka bread.

                                                  He Is Risen Indeed!

                                                  In Christ's love,

                                                  Katherine








                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: (matushka) Ann Lardas
                                                  To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:58 AM
                                                  Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Tvorog


                                                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <weaver32@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Recipe found for Tvorog:
                                                  >
                                                  > Have to admit, I am maybe not the best one to know the recipes for
                                                  Russian foods at all, but found this one and thought it may be
                                                  helpful for those mentioning the Tvorog: Someone perhaps would be
                                                  interested.
                                                  >
                                                  > ( Homemade Farmers Cheese)
                                                  >
                                                  > 1/2 Gal Whole Milk
                                                  >
                                                  > 3 TBLSP of Sour Cream
                                                  >
                                                  > Place milk and cheese in container ( not plastic)Let stand
                                                  uncovered, in warm place (use pilot light, ) Until the milk curdles.
                                                  About 48 hrs...
                                                  >
                                                  > Line a fine Sieve with several layers of cheesecloth ,. Carefully
                                                  place the curds , seperated from the whey ,into the sieve. Allow 2
                                                  hrs to drain over large bowl.
                                                  >
                                                  > Plsace large plate over the curds, and a weight, such as a water
                                                  filled jar, on the plate. Place in refrigerator and let drip until
                                                  curds dry up, about 8 hours.. ( Less time for creamier cheese, and
                                                  more for FARMERS CHEESE)
                                                  >
                                                  > Do not know if helpful but I hope so.
                                                  >
                                                  > In Christ,
                                                  >
                                                  > Katherine

                                                  In Houston, the ladies gave me a recipe for Farmer's Cheese which
                                                  works most years. For some reason this recipe does not work in
                                                  California, but in the archives of the Orthodox list you can find Fr.
                                                  Alexey Chumakov's recipe for farmer's cheese using California milk.

                                                  To make Farmer's Cheese outside of California, you scald one gallon
                                                  of milk, remove it from the heat, and pour in one quart of buttermilk
                                                  and cover it with cheese cloth or a towel and put it someplace out of
                                                  drafts (mine goes behind the coffee maker). You leave it alone for a
                                                  day and a night and a day and then put it in the oven on "warm" for
                                                  an electric oven or just with the pilot on for a gas oven, overnight,
                                                  and in the morning you have a chunk of curd floating in a sea of
                                                  whey. When you drain the whey, the rest is the farmer's cheese. But
                                                  use cloth (an old pillow case or tee shirt) rather than cheesecloth
                                                  to strain it, as the weave on cheese cloth is too wide and the curds
                                                  fall out.

                                                  One gallon of milk plus one quart of buttermilk make approximately
                                                  two and a half pounds of cheese.

                                                  Locally, you can get Friendship Farmer's Cheese at Stop and Shop for
                                                  prices ranging from $2.39 per pound (Seymore) to $4.09 per pound. In
                                                  Texas they sold a Mexican brand of something they called Farmer's
                                                  Cheese, but it was a harder cheese and made for a syrnaya pascha that
                                                  tasted like salted erasers.

                                                  Friends who've used ricotta or cottage cheese drain it in a sieve
                                                  overnight and run it through the food processor or grind it through a
                                                  sieve after.

                                                  Wishing you a joyous upcoming Feast.

                                                  In Christ,
                                                  Matushka Ann Lardas





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