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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Copts and Armenians too now! Archbishop Mark leads ...

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  • antiquariu@aol.com
    In a message dated 3/1/2007 11:05:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, vrevjrs@execpc.com writes: It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the Triumph ... JRS:
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 2, 2007
      In a message dated 3/1/2007 11:05:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      vrevjrs@... writes:

      It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
      > of Orthodoxy."

      JRS: Neither the Armenians nor the Copts have any Akathistos Hymns in their
      services.

      If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians and Copts were
      joining in and
      singing along with the Greeks and Russians, not vice-versa.

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw






      Good answer, Father! I sing tenor with the Slavic Male Chorus of
      Washington, DC, which includes a handful of Orthodox, an Italian lyric tenor, a Jew,
      and number of Episcopals, Baptists, Uniates, and the like. We frequently sing
      for Orthodox services of all varieties, but we don't stop there. Those
      Akathists are sometimes even done in Unitarian churches. We've even had our
      Jewish baritone do some wonderful solos for Orthodox weddings, and as you know,
      Orthodox weddings are a liturgy, not some contrived nonsense. Far be it from
      me to determine the Holy Spirit's intent, but if I get judged to go to hell,
      it will probably not be because of the pseudotheologians on this list!

      In Christ, and keep me in your prayers,

      Vova H.
      <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
      email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
      http://www.aol.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Athanasios Jayne
      ... and Copts were joining in and singing along with the Greeks and Russians, not vice-versa.
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 2, 2007
        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, antiquariu@... wrote:
        >
        > If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians
        and Copts were joining in and singing along with the Greeks and
        Russians, not vice-versa. <<

        Wishful thinking, Father. "Together" means together--there is
        no indication that any one party was "leading" anybody else.
        If it was done in an equal way, it was done in an Ecumenist
        way. Don't you think they all had the Akathist materials long
        in advance, so that they could practice? Of course they did.
        And when the heretics had practiced it enough, they then sang
        and prayed it together with us, in an equal way, in an Ecumenist
        way, so that the Orthodox were indeed "praying with heretics"
        on the "Triumph of Orthodoxy." Even the name of this choral
        group is offensive, in that it ascribes Orthodoxy to Armenian
        and Coptic heretics, along with the Orthodox, in an equal way,
        and the Orthodox accepted it.

        Athanasios Jayne
        (ROCOR)
      • Ekaterina Andreev
        Then Athanasios you condenm us all. Not long ago I recall many Orthodox (in many, many places across the country) standing together before the miracle
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 3, 2007
          Then Athanasios you condenm us all. Not long ago I recall many "Orthodox" (in many, many places across the country) standing together before the miracle working icon of the Sitka Mother of God sing an Akathist to her. I saw all sorts of Jurisdictions in under one roof. Does that mean in your mind that our prayer was Ecumenist?
          Katya

          Athanasios Jayne <athanasiosj@...> wrote:
          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, antiquariu@... wrote:
          >
          > If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians
          and Copts were joining in and singing along with the Greeks and
          Russians, not vice-versa. <<

          Wishful thinking, Father. "Together" means together--there is
          no indication that any one party was "leading" anybody else.
          If it was done in an equal way, it was done in an Ecumenist
          way. Don't you think they all had the Akathist materials long
          in advance, so that they could practice? Of course they did.
          And when the heretics had practiced it enough, they then sang
          and prayed it together with us, in an equal way, in an Ecumenist
          way, so that the Orthodox were indeed "praying with heretics"
          on the "Triumph of Orthodoxy." Even the name of this choral
          group is offensive, in that it ascribes Orthodoxy to Armenian
          and Coptic heretics, along with the Orthodox, in an equal way,
          and the Orthodox accepted it.

          Athanasios Jayne
          (ROCOR)






          ---------------------------------
          Don't pick lemons.
          See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Carol
          Let us remember 1 John Ch 4 vs20-21 If a man say, I love God and hateth his brother, he is a lier: for he that loveth not his brother whom he has seen, how
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 3, 2007
            Let us remember 1 John Ch 4 vs20-21
            "If a man say, I love God and hateth his brother, he is a lier: for he that loveth not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"

            Personally do not see all denominations joining ecumenically, with so many different beliefs and most 'heretics', and do realize that even the catechumens were asked to leave at a certain part of the service, and anyone not of the faith in the old times, were not allowed to be told what exactly the services entailed, BUT:

            Let us read this verse over and over and see if it speakes anything to your heart? God opened his salvation up to all who came to him, with an earnest heart and were baptised, and believed. Could we have been wrong all thses years, and is it time to allow all , even 'heretics' to join in with us? Our faith will be changed and abolished, one day, by doing this, and we could be in a stae of heresy ourselves, of course. Do we take this chance?
            Could God's plan, though, be higher than our minds, and he wants to help others to convert to the TRUE faith? Sometimes God works in mysterious ways. I do, think that we should NOT CHANGE ONE thing about our ancient faith that has held from the beginning, but if others want to join us, it should be on OUR terms. If people join OUR choirs they need to chant or sing OUR way. We do NOT NEED to change to do it there way, UNLESS we are in THEIR church of course, and no one can MAKE us do that. Who knows in heaven how it all works exactly, I guess?

            Actually I have been told, that we, are not to go to worship in other churches. We can attend marriages, a but NOT SERVICES. No one can MAKE us ever no matter how ecumenical it all should become. BUT if people join US, then they must be able to conform to the worship of where they are attending, I guess. This means we can love and accept all others, into our fold, BUT not accept the teachings of heretical faiths. That would maybe be the ONLY way to handle this whole thing if it should happen. But God loves us all, and wants all to have the opportunity to come to THE faith.

            Just another thought. As it is not good for us to have an attitude though of : " How great I am, and am glad I am not a heretic like you" attitude. Maybe we can welcome them in to learn, from our faith, but if they do not want to, then so be it, they do not need to join us, but we can stand NOT in Judgement on them.

            Just some more thoughts, from someone who is just a humble servant of God.

            In Christ's love,

            Katherine




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Ekaterina Andreev
            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 6:45 AM
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Copts and Armenians too now! Archbishop Mark leads ...


            Then Athanasios you condenm us all. Not long ago I recall many "Orthodox" (in many, many places across the country) standing together before the miracle working icon of the Sitka Mother of God sing an Akathist to her. I saw all sorts of Jurisdictions in under one roof. Does that mean in your mind that our prayer was Ecumenist?
            Katya

            Athanasios Jayne <athanasiosj@...> wrote:
            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, antiquariu@... wrote:
            >
            > If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians
            and Copts were joining in and singing along with the Greeks and
            Russians, not vice-versa. <<

            Wishful thinking, Father. "Together" means together--there is
            no indication that any one party was "leading" anybody else.
            If it was done in an equal way, it was done in an Ecumenist
            way. Don't you think they all had the Akathist materials long
            in advance, so that they could practice? Of course they did.
            And when the heretics had practiced it enough, they then sang
            and prayed it together with us, in an equal way, in an Ecumenist
            way, so that the Orthodox were indeed "praying with heretics"
            on the "Triumph of Orthodoxy." Even the name of this choral
            group is offensive, in that it ascribes Orthodoxy to Armenian
            and Coptic heretics, along with the Orthodox, in an equal way,
            and the Orthodox accepted it.

            Athanasios Jayne
            (ROCOR)

            ---------------------------------
            Don't pick lemons.
            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Athanasios Jayne
            ... Orthodox (in many, many places across the country) standing together before the miracle working icon of the Sitka Mother of God sing an Akathist to her.
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 3, 2007
              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Ekaterina Andreev
              <ekaterina917@...> wrote:
              >
              > Then Athanasios you condenm us all. Not long ago I recall many
              "Orthodox" (in many, many places across the country) standing together
              before the miracle working icon of the Sitka Mother of God sing an
              Akathist to her. I saw all sorts of Jurisdictions in under one roof.
              Does that mean in your mind that our prayer was Ecumenist?
              > Katya

              Of course not, if the "Orthodox jurisdictions" you refer
              to were, in fact, Orthodox. Also, if it was *led* by the
              Orthodox, that would be fine too. But to pray with the
              heterodox on a basis of *equality* (as appears to have
              happened in Germany), or even with the heterodox *leading*
              the prayers, would be contrary to the holy Canons and an
              act of Ecumenism.

              Remember: "He who sings PRAYS TWICE."

              Athanasios Jayne
              (ROCOR)
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