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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Copts and Armenians too now! Archbishop Mark leads the way.....?!?

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  • DDD
    I could be wrong, but I understand praying with heretics to generally mean praying along with them at THEIR services. The Akathist to the Mother of God is
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
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      I could be wrong, but I understand "praying with heretics" to generally mean "praying along with them at THEIR services." The Akathist to the Mother of God is a completely Orthodox service or prayer. It was written by Orthodox. That, in itself, as far as I am concerned, "leads" the prayer by the Orthodox. Anyone can come into our church, for example, during the Akathist and sing along--be he a Copt or an atheist, and that will not make it an "ecumenical" service: *they* are praying *our* prayers.

      Now, if they all were singing something heretical, that would be a different matter.

      --Dimitra Dwelley


      On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:45:40 -0000, Athanasios Jayne wrote:
      >> "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of
      Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an
      akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung
      by everyone in attendance (approximately 300 persons)
      with notes and texts prepared in advance. <<

      The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
      To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
      in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
      *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
      Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.

      It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
      of Orthodoxy."

      Athanasios Jayne
      (ROCOR)


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    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      ... JRS: Neither the Armenians nor the Copts have any Akathistos Hymns in their services. If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians and Copts
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
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        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne" <athanasiosj@...> wrote:

        > The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
        > To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
        > in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
        > *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
        > Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.
        >
        > It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
        > of Orthodoxy."

        JRS: Neither the Armenians nor the Copts have any Akathistos Hymns in their services.

        If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians and Copts were joining in and
        singing along with the Greeks and Russians, not vice-versa.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        The Yale Choir many years ago began to sing Rusian Orthodox music over the decades many singers converted to the Orthodox Faith.
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
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          The Yale Choir many years ago began to sing Rusian Orthodox music
          over the decades many singers converted to the Orthodox Faith.



          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne"
          <athanasiosj@...> wrote:
          >
          > >> "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of
          > Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an
          > akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung
          > by everyone in attendance (approximately 300 persons)
          > with notes and texts prepared in advance. <<
          >
          > The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
          > To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
          > in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
          > *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
          > Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.
          >
          > It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
          > of Orthodoxy."
          >
          > Athanasios Jayne
          > (ROCOR)
          >
        • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
          A program of singing on stage is not a Church Service---maybe a Copt or two would become Orthodox after this. In Berkeley the Music Department has a choir that
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 2, 2007
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            A program of singing on stage is not a Church Service---maybe a Copt
            or two would become Orthodox after this.

            In Berkeley the Music Department has a choir that sings Orthodox
            music pieces, some of the singers are now attending the Cathedral in
            San Francisco and the Orthodox Church in Berkeley.




            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Reader Timothy Tadros"
            <pravoslavney@...> wrote:
            >
            > Does this mean the Monophysites accept the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th
            > Ecumenical Councils Now?
            > I would agree we have a much better chance of an Orthodox Unity
            > with them more than the Roman Catholic Church now than ever before.
            > "As far as the East is from the West" this is exactly how much we
            > differ with the RC's in theology, ecclesiology, and liturgics!
            > Rdr Timothy Tadros
            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
            > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Archbishop Averky would be overjoyed! He always hoped that
            Orthodox
            > > would act kindly toward the Copts and other near Orthodox so that
            > > they would gravitate toward unity with the Orthodox Church and
            not
            > > the Roman Catholic or Protestants. Singing together is a start!
            > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
            > > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
            > > Hosts
            > > > the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"
            > > >
            > > > The feast day of the Triumph of Orthodoxy was celebrated in the
            > > > Bavarian capital of Munich with an event called the "Meeting of
            > > > Orthodox Choirs," which has now become a tradition.
            > > >
            > > > Orthodoxy is the third Christian confession in Germany
            according
            > to
            > > the
            > > > number of adherents, after Protestants and Roman Catholics: by
            > some
            > > > estimates there are some one million Orthodox Christians in the
            > > > country. Orthodoxy is represented in Munich by communities of
            the
            > > > Moscow, Constantinople, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Georgian
            > and
            > > > Antiochian Patriarchates as well as the Russian Orthodox Church
            > > Outside
            > > > of Russia. Believers belonging to the Ancient Eastern Churches
            > > include
            > > > representatives of the Armenian, Coptic and Ethiopian diasporas.
            > > >
            > > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
            > and
            > > St
            > > > Nicholas (ROCOR) was this year's host for the "Meeting of
            > Orthodox
            > > > Choirs."
            > > >
            > > > The event opened with a brief welcome by His Eminence
            Archbishop
            > > Mark
            > > > of Berlin and Germany. Ten choirs, comprising over 120 singers,
            > > > demonstrated the beauty of liturgical music, representing the
            > > Greek,
            > > > Georgian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian Orthodox
            > > Churches.
            > > > Participating also were singers from the Armenian Apostolic
            > Church
            > > and
            > > > the Youth and Children's Choir of the Coptic Church. Among the
            > > > participants were Orthodox Christians from various émigré
            > > communities
            > > > of different ages, students of the Theological Department of
            the
            > > > University of Munich and of higher music schools as well as
            > > > professional singers.
            > > >
            > > > Church singing is a form of "adorning the discourse," playing
            an
            > > > important role in spiritual communion with God and His Saints.
            > The
            > > > "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" demonstrated various repertories
            and
            > > > styles of vocal art, slow, broad singing, and a great deal
            more.
            > > The
            > > > preservation of Byzantine and post-Byzantine traditions was
            > evident
            > > in
            > > > the performance of the parishioners of Munich's Greek Orthodox
            > > Church.
            > > > In the view of experts, the finest schools of church singing
            and
            > > choral
            > > > style were heard in the singing of the Resurrection Community
            of
            > > Dachau
            > > > and Munich of the Moscow Patriarchate (directed by Maksim
            > > Matjushenkov)
            > > > and the Munich Cathedral of ROCOR (Vladimir Tsjolkovich).
            > > >
            > > > "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of Orthodoxy
            > > concluded
            > > > by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God
            > in
            > > > Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately
            > 300
            > > > persons) with notes and texts prepared in advance.
            > > >
            > > > Pravoslavie.ru
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > The fish are biting.
            > > > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
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