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Re: Copts and Armenians too now! Archbishop Mark leads the way.....?!?

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  • Reader Timothy Tadros
    Does this mean the Monophysites accept the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Ecumenical Councils Now? I would agree we have a much better chance of an Orthodox Unity with
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
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      Does this mean the Monophysites accept the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th
      Ecumenical Councils Now?
      I would agree we have a much better chance of an Orthodox Unity
      with them more than the Roman Catholic Church now than ever before.
      "As far as the East is from the West" this is exactly how much we
      differ with the RC's in theology, ecclesiology, and liturgics!
      Rdr Timothy Tadros
      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
      <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
      >
      > Archbishop Averky would be overjoyed! He always hoped that Orthodox
      > would act kindly toward the Copts and other near Orthodox so that
      > they would gravitate toward unity with the Orthodox Church and not
      > the Roman Catholic or Protestants. Singing together is a start!
      > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
      > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
      > Hosts
      > > the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"
      > >
      > > The feast day of the Triumph of Orthodoxy was celebrated in the
      > > Bavarian capital of Munich with an event called the "Meeting of
      > > Orthodox Choirs," which has now become a tradition.
      > >
      > > Orthodoxy is the third Christian confession in Germany according
      to
      > the
      > > number of adherents, after Protestants and Roman Catholics: by
      some
      > > estimates there are some one million Orthodox Christians in the
      > > country. Orthodoxy is represented in Munich by communities of the
      > > Moscow, Constantinople, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Georgian
      and
      > > Antiochian Patriarchates as well as the Russian Orthodox Church
      > Outside
      > > of Russia. Believers belonging to the Ancient Eastern Churches
      > include
      > > representatives of the Armenian, Coptic and Ethiopian diasporas.
      > >
      > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
      and
      > St
      > > Nicholas (ROCOR) was this year's host for the "Meeting of
      Orthodox
      > > Choirs."
      > >
      > > The event opened with a brief welcome by His Eminence Archbishop
      > Mark
      > > of Berlin and Germany. Ten choirs, comprising over 120 singers,
      > > demonstrated the beauty of liturgical music, representing the
      > Greek,
      > > Georgian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian Orthodox
      > Churches.
      > > Participating also were singers from the Armenian Apostolic
      Church
      > and
      > > the Youth and Children's Choir of the Coptic Church. Among the
      > > participants were Orthodox Christians from various émigré
      > communities
      > > of different ages, students of the Theological Department of the
      > > University of Munich and of higher music schools as well as
      > > professional singers.
      > >
      > > Church singing is a form of "adorning the discourse," playing an
      > > important role in spiritual communion with God and His Saints.
      The
      > > "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" demonstrated various repertories and
      > > styles of vocal art, slow, broad singing, and a great deal more.
      > The
      > > preservation of Byzantine and post-Byzantine traditions was
      evident
      > in
      > > the performance of the parishioners of Munich's Greek Orthodox
      > Church.
      > > In the view of experts, the finest schools of church singing and
      > choral
      > > style were heard in the singing of the Resurrection Community of
      > Dachau
      > > and Munich of the Moscow Patriarchate (directed by Maksim
      > Matjushenkov)
      > > and the Munich Cathedral of ROCOR (Vladimir Tsjolkovich).
      > >
      > > "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of Orthodoxy
      > concluded
      > > by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God
      in
      > > Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately
      300
      > > persons) with notes and texts prepared in advance.
      > >
      > > Pravoslavie.ru
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > The fish are biting.
      > > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • DDD
      I could be wrong, but I understand praying with heretics to generally mean praying along with them at THEIR services. The Akathist to the Mother of God is
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
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        I could be wrong, but I understand "praying with heretics" to generally mean "praying along with them at THEIR services." The Akathist to the Mother of God is a completely Orthodox service or prayer. It was written by Orthodox. That, in itself, as far as I am concerned, "leads" the prayer by the Orthodox. Anyone can come into our church, for example, during the Akathist and sing along--be he a Copt or an atheist, and that will not make it an "ecumenical" service: *they* are praying *our* prayers.

        Now, if they all were singing something heretical, that would be a different matter.

        --Dimitra Dwelley


        On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:45:40 -0000, Athanasios Jayne wrote:
        >> "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of
        Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an
        akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung
        by everyone in attendance (approximately 300 persons)
        with notes and texts prepared in advance. <<

        The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
        To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
        in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
        *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
        Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.

        It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
        of Orthodoxy."

        Athanasios Jayne
        (ROCOR)


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      • Fr. John R. Shaw
        ... JRS: Neither the Armenians nor the Copts have any Akathistos Hymns in their services. If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians and Copts
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
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          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne" <athanasiosj@...> wrote:

          > The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
          > To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
          > in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
          > *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
          > Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.
          >
          > It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
          > of Orthodoxy."

          JRS: Neither the Armenians nor the Copts have any Akathistos Hymns in their services.

          If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians and Copts were joining in and
          singing along with the Greeks and Russians, not vice-versa.

          In Christ
          Fr. John R. Shaw
        • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
          The Yale Choir many years ago began to sing Rusian Orthodox music over the decades many singers converted to the Orthodox Faith.
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
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            The Yale Choir many years ago began to sing Rusian Orthodox music
            over the decades many singers converted to the Orthodox Faith.



            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne"
            <athanasiosj@...> wrote:
            >
            > >> "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of
            > Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an
            > akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung
            > by everyone in attendance (approximately 300 persons)
            > with notes and texts prepared in advance. <<
            >
            > The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
            > To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
            > in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
            > *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
            > Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.
            >
            > It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
            > of Orthodoxy."
            >
            > Athanasios Jayne
            > (ROCOR)
            >
          • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            A program of singing on stage is not a Church Service---maybe a Copt or two would become Orthodox after this. In Berkeley the Music Department has a choir that
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 2, 2007
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              A program of singing on stage is not a Church Service---maybe a Copt
              or two would become Orthodox after this.

              In Berkeley the Music Department has a choir that sings Orthodox
              music pieces, some of the singers are now attending the Cathedral in
              San Francisco and the Orthodox Church in Berkeley.




              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Reader Timothy Tadros"
              <pravoslavney@...> wrote:
              >
              > Does this mean the Monophysites accept the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th
              > Ecumenical Councils Now?
              > I would agree we have a much better chance of an Orthodox Unity
              > with them more than the Roman Catholic Church now than ever before.
              > "As far as the East is from the West" this is exactly how much we
              > differ with the RC's in theology, ecclesiology, and liturgics!
              > Rdr Timothy Tadros
              > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
              > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Archbishop Averky would be overjoyed! He always hoped that
              Orthodox
              > > would act kindly toward the Copts and other near Orthodox so that
              > > they would gravitate toward unity with the Orthodox Church and
              not
              > > the Roman Catholic or Protestants. Singing together is a start!
              > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
              > > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
              > > Hosts
              > > > the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"
              > > >
              > > > The feast day of the Triumph of Orthodoxy was celebrated in the
              > > > Bavarian capital of Munich with an event called the "Meeting of
              > > > Orthodox Choirs," which has now become a tradition.
              > > >
              > > > Orthodoxy is the third Christian confession in Germany
              according
              > to
              > > the
              > > > number of adherents, after Protestants and Roman Catholics: by
              > some
              > > > estimates there are some one million Orthodox Christians in the
              > > > country. Orthodoxy is represented in Munich by communities of
              the
              > > > Moscow, Constantinople, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Georgian
              > and
              > > > Antiochian Patriarchates as well as the Russian Orthodox Church
              > > Outside
              > > > of Russia. Believers belonging to the Ancient Eastern Churches
              > > include
              > > > representatives of the Armenian, Coptic and Ethiopian diasporas.
              > > >
              > > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
              > and
              > > St
              > > > Nicholas (ROCOR) was this year's host for the "Meeting of
              > Orthodox
              > > > Choirs."
              > > >
              > > > The event opened with a brief welcome by His Eminence
              Archbishop
              > > Mark
              > > > of Berlin and Germany. Ten choirs, comprising over 120 singers,
              > > > demonstrated the beauty of liturgical music, representing the
              > > Greek,
              > > > Georgian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian Orthodox
              > > Churches.
              > > > Participating also were singers from the Armenian Apostolic
              > Church
              > > and
              > > > the Youth and Children's Choir of the Coptic Church. Among the
              > > > participants were Orthodox Christians from various émigré
              > > communities
              > > > of different ages, students of the Theological Department of
              the
              > > > University of Munich and of higher music schools as well as
              > > > professional singers.
              > > >
              > > > Church singing is a form of "adorning the discourse," playing
              an
              > > > important role in spiritual communion with God and His Saints.
              > The
              > > > "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" demonstrated various repertories
              and
              > > > styles of vocal art, slow, broad singing, and a great deal
              more.
              > > The
              > > > preservation of Byzantine and post-Byzantine traditions was
              > evident
              > > in
              > > > the performance of the parishioners of Munich's Greek Orthodox
              > > Church.
              > > > In the view of experts, the finest schools of church singing
              and
              > > choral
              > > > style were heard in the singing of the Resurrection Community
              of
              > > Dachau
              > > > and Munich of the Moscow Patriarchate (directed by Maksim
              > > Matjushenkov)
              > > > and the Munich Cathedral of ROCOR (Vladimir Tsjolkovich).
              > > >
              > > > "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of Orthodoxy
              > > concluded
              > > > by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God
              > in
              > > > Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately
              > 300
              > > > persons) with notes and texts prepared in advance.
              > > >
              > > > Pravoslavie.ru
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ---------------------------------
              > > > The fish are biting.
              > > > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              >
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