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Copts and Armenians too now! Archbishop Mark leads the way.....?!?

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  • Basil Yakimov
    DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007 The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Hosts the Traditional Meeting of Orthodox
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
      DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
      The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Hosts
      the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"

      The feast day of the Triumph of Orthodoxy was celebrated in the
      Bavarian capital of Munich with an event called the "Meeting of
      Orthodox Choirs," which has now become a tradition.

      Orthodoxy is the third Christian confession in Germany according to the
      number of adherents, after Protestants and Roman Catholics: by some
      estimates there are some one million Orthodox Christians in the
      country. Orthodoxy is represented in Munich by communities of the
      Moscow, Constantinople, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Georgian and
      Antiochian Patriarchates as well as the Russian Orthodox Church Outside
      of Russia. Believers belonging to the Ancient Eastern Churches include
      representatives of the Armenian, Coptic and Ethiopian diasporas.

      The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia and St
      Nicholas (ROCOR) was this year's host for the "Meeting of Orthodox
      Choirs."

      The event opened with a brief welcome by His Eminence Archbishop Mark
      of Berlin and Germany. Ten choirs, comprising over 120 singers,
      demonstrated the beauty of liturgical music, representing the Greek,
      Georgian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian Orthodox Churches.
      Participating also were singers from the Armenian Apostolic Church and
      the Youth and Children's Choir of the Coptic Church. Among the
      participants were Orthodox Christians from various émigré communities
      of different ages, students of the Theological Department of the
      University of Munich and of higher music schools as well as
      professional singers.

      Church singing is a form of "adorning the discourse," playing an
      important role in spiritual communion with God and His Saints. The
      "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" demonstrated various repertories and
      styles of vocal art, slow, broad singing, and a great deal more. The
      preservation of Byzantine and post-Byzantine traditions was evident in
      the performance of the parishioners of Munich's Greek Orthodox Church.
      In the view of experts, the finest schools of church singing and choral
      style were heard in the singing of the Resurrection Community of Dachau
      and Munich of the Moscow Patriarchate (directed by Maksim Matjushenkov)
      and the Munich Cathedral of ROCOR (Vladimir Tsjolkovich).

      "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of Orthodoxy concluded
      by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God in
      Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately 300
      persons) with notes and texts prepared in advance.

      Pravoslavie.ru


      ---------------------------------
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      ... JRS: Since when is it wrong to listen to choir concerts? Perhaps you still have a copy or two, somewhere, of Bishop Daniel of Erie s illustrated magazine,
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@...> wrote:

        > DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
        > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Hosts
        > the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"...

        JRS: Since when is it wrong to listen to choir concerts?

        Perhaps you still have a copy or two, somewhere, of Bishop Daniel of Erie's illustrated
        magazine, printed ca. 1965-1966, in which he stated that the Coptic, Armenian, Latin and
        other traditions of church art, architecture, singing and liturgy all belonged to the heritage
        of the Orthodox Church?

        The magazine was called NASLEDIE in Russian, HERITAGE in English.

        St. Anthony the Great spoke no language except Coptic (Egyptian).

        Gregorian chant might also have been included in the choral presentation: it is an ancient
        form of church music that is fully documented from the 700's, long before the schism of
        Rome.

        All of these traditions are educational for us, in various ways.

        The Church has also been willing to accept them, when communities that follow them
        returned to Orthodoxy.

        Concelebration in vestments with non-Orthodox is one thing; but listening to choirs
        perform is another.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        Archbishop Averky would be overjoyed! He always hoped that Orthodox would act kindly toward the Copts and other near Orthodox so that they would gravitate
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
          Archbishop Averky would be overjoyed! He always hoped that Orthodox
          would act kindly toward the Copts and other near Orthodox so that
          they would gravitate toward unity with the Orthodox Church and not
          the Roman Catholic or Protestants. Singing together is a start!
          Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko



          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
          > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
          Hosts
          > the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"
          >
          > The feast day of the Triumph of Orthodoxy was celebrated in the
          > Bavarian capital of Munich with an event called the "Meeting of
          > Orthodox Choirs," which has now become a tradition.
          >
          > Orthodoxy is the third Christian confession in Germany according to
          the
          > number of adherents, after Protestants and Roman Catholics: by some
          > estimates there are some one million Orthodox Christians in the
          > country. Orthodoxy is represented in Munich by communities of the
          > Moscow, Constantinople, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Georgian and
          > Antiochian Patriarchates as well as the Russian Orthodox Church
          Outside
          > of Russia. Believers belonging to the Ancient Eastern Churches
          include
          > representatives of the Armenian, Coptic and Ethiopian diasporas.
          >
          > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia and
          St
          > Nicholas (ROCOR) was this year's host for the "Meeting of Orthodox
          > Choirs."
          >
          > The event opened with a brief welcome by His Eminence Archbishop
          Mark
          > of Berlin and Germany. Ten choirs, comprising over 120 singers,
          > demonstrated the beauty of liturgical music, representing the
          Greek,
          > Georgian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian Orthodox
          Churches.
          > Participating also were singers from the Armenian Apostolic Church
          and
          > the Youth and Children's Choir of the Coptic Church. Among the
          > participants were Orthodox Christians from various émigré
          communities
          > of different ages, students of the Theological Department of the
          > University of Munich and of higher music schools as well as
          > professional singers.
          >
          > Church singing is a form of "adorning the discourse," playing an
          > important role in spiritual communion with God and His Saints. The
          > "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" demonstrated various repertories and
          > styles of vocal art, slow, broad singing, and a great deal more.
          The
          > preservation of Byzantine and post-Byzantine traditions was evident
          in
          > the performance of the parishioners of Munich's Greek Orthodox
          Church.
          > In the view of experts, the finest schools of church singing and
          choral
          > style were heard in the singing of the Resurrection Community of
          Dachau
          > and Munich of the Moscow Patriarchate (directed by Maksim
          Matjushenkov)
          > and the Munich Cathedral of ROCOR (Vladimir Tsjolkovich).
          >
          > "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of Orthodoxy
          concluded
          > by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God in
          > Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately 300
          > persons) with notes and texts prepared in advance.
          >
          > Pravoslavie.ru
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > The fish are biting.
          > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Athanasios Jayne
          ... Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately 300
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
            >> "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of
            Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an
            akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung
            by everyone in attendance (approximately 300 persons)
            with notes and texts prepared in advance. <<

            The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
            To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
            in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
            *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
            Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.

            It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
            of Orthodoxy."

            Athanasios Jayne
            (ROCOR)
          • Reader Timothy Tadros
            Does this mean the Monophysites accept the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Ecumenical Councils Now? I would agree we have a much better chance of an Orthodox Unity with
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
              Does this mean the Monophysites accept the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th
              Ecumenical Councils Now?
              I would agree we have a much better chance of an Orthodox Unity
              with them more than the Roman Catholic Church now than ever before.
              "As far as the East is from the West" this is exactly how much we
              differ with the RC's in theology, ecclesiology, and liturgics!
              Rdr Timothy Tadros
              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
              <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
              >
              > Archbishop Averky would be overjoyed! He always hoped that Orthodox
              > would act kindly toward the Copts and other near Orthodox so that
              > they would gravitate toward unity with the Orthodox Church and not
              > the Roman Catholic or Protestants. Singing together is a start!
              > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
              > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
              > Hosts
              > > the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"
              > >
              > > The feast day of the Triumph of Orthodoxy was celebrated in the
              > > Bavarian capital of Munich with an event called the "Meeting of
              > > Orthodox Choirs," which has now become a tradition.
              > >
              > > Orthodoxy is the third Christian confession in Germany according
              to
              > the
              > > number of adherents, after Protestants and Roman Catholics: by
              some
              > > estimates there are some one million Orthodox Christians in the
              > > country. Orthodoxy is represented in Munich by communities of the
              > > Moscow, Constantinople, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Georgian
              and
              > > Antiochian Patriarchates as well as the Russian Orthodox Church
              > Outside
              > > of Russia. Believers belonging to the Ancient Eastern Churches
              > include
              > > representatives of the Armenian, Coptic and Ethiopian diasporas.
              > >
              > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
              and
              > St
              > > Nicholas (ROCOR) was this year's host for the "Meeting of
              Orthodox
              > > Choirs."
              > >
              > > The event opened with a brief welcome by His Eminence Archbishop
              > Mark
              > > of Berlin and Germany. Ten choirs, comprising over 120 singers,
              > > demonstrated the beauty of liturgical music, representing the
              > Greek,
              > > Georgian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian Orthodox
              > Churches.
              > > Participating also were singers from the Armenian Apostolic
              Church
              > and
              > > the Youth and Children's Choir of the Coptic Church. Among the
              > > participants were Orthodox Christians from various émigré
              > communities
              > > of different ages, students of the Theological Department of the
              > > University of Munich and of higher music schools as well as
              > > professional singers.
              > >
              > > Church singing is a form of "adorning the discourse," playing an
              > > important role in spiritual communion with God and His Saints.
              The
              > > "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" demonstrated various repertories and
              > > styles of vocal art, slow, broad singing, and a great deal more.
              > The
              > > preservation of Byzantine and post-Byzantine traditions was
              evident
              > in
              > > the performance of the parishioners of Munich's Greek Orthodox
              > Church.
              > > In the view of experts, the finest schools of church singing and
              > choral
              > > style were heard in the singing of the Resurrection Community of
              > Dachau
              > > and Munich of the Moscow Patriarchate (directed by Maksim
              > Matjushenkov)
              > > and the Munich Cathedral of ROCOR (Vladimir Tsjolkovich).
              > >
              > > "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of Orthodoxy
              > concluded
              > > by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God
              in
              > > Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately
              300
              > > persons) with notes and texts prepared in advance.
              > >
              > > Pravoslavie.ru
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > The fish are biting.
              > > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • DDD
              I could be wrong, but I understand praying with heretics to generally mean praying along with them at THEIR services. The Akathist to the Mother of God is
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
                I could be wrong, but I understand "praying with heretics" to generally mean "praying along with them at THEIR services." The Akathist to the Mother of God is a completely Orthodox service or prayer. It was written by Orthodox. That, in itself, as far as I am concerned, "leads" the prayer by the Orthodox. Anyone can come into our church, for example, during the Akathist and sing along--be he a Copt or an atheist, and that will not make it an "ecumenical" service: *they* are praying *our* prayers.

                Now, if they all were singing something heretical, that would be a different matter.

                --Dimitra Dwelley


                On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:45:40 -0000, Athanasios Jayne wrote:
                >> "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of
                Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an
                akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung
                by everyone in attendance (approximately 300 persons)
                with notes and texts prepared in advance. <<

                The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
                To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
                in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
                *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
                Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.

                It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
                of Orthodoxy."

                Athanasios Jayne
                (ROCOR)


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              • Fr. John R. Shaw
                ... JRS: Neither the Armenians nor the Copts have any Akathistos Hymns in their services. If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians and Copts
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne" <athanasiosj@...> wrote:

                  > The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
                  > To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
                  > in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
                  > *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
                  > Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.
                  >
                  > It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
                  > of Orthodoxy."

                  JRS: Neither the Armenians nor the Copts have any Akathistos Hymns in their services.

                  If everyone sang it together, then that means the Armenians and Copts were joining in and
                  singing along with the Greeks and Russians, not vice-versa.

                  In Christ
                  Fr. John R. Shaw
                • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                  The Yale Choir many years ago began to sing Rusian Orthodox music over the decades many singers converted to the Orthodox Faith.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
                    The Yale Choir many years ago began to sing Rusian Orthodox music
                    over the decades many singers converted to the Orthodox Faith.



                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne"
                    <athanasiosj@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >> "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of
                    > Orthodoxy concluded by the late evening singing of an
                    > akathist to the Mother of God in Greek, which was sung
                    > by everyone in attendance (approximately 300 persons)
                    > with notes and texts prepared in advance. <<
                    >
                    > The Akathist to the Theotokos is a form of prayer.
                    > To sing this prayer together with Armenians and Copts,
                    > in an equal manner (that is, without the Orthodox
                    > *leading* the prayer), would be contrary to the holy
                    > Canons which absolutely forbid praying with heretics.
                    >
                    > It would be an act of open Ecumenism, on the "Triumph
                    > of Orthodoxy."
                    >
                    > Athanasios Jayne
                    > (ROCOR)
                    >
                  • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                    A program of singing on stage is not a Church Service---maybe a Copt or two would become Orthodox after this. In Berkeley the Music Department has a choir that
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 2, 2007
                      A program of singing on stage is not a Church Service---maybe a Copt
                      or two would become Orthodox after this.

                      In Berkeley the Music Department has a choir that sings Orthodox
                      music pieces, some of the singers are now attending the Cathedral in
                      San Francisco and the Orthodox Church in Berkeley.




                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Reader Timothy Tadros"
                      <pravoslavney@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does this mean the Monophysites accept the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th
                      > Ecumenical Councils Now?
                      > I would agree we have a much better chance of an Orthodox Unity
                      > with them more than the Roman Catholic Church now than ever before.
                      > "As far as the East is from the West" this is exactly how much we
                      > differ with the RC's in theology, ecclesiology, and liturgics!
                      > Rdr Timothy Tadros
                      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                      > <StefanVPavlenko@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Archbishop Averky would be overjoyed! He always hoped that
                      Orthodox
                      > > would act kindly toward the Copts and other near Orthodox so that
                      > > they would gravitate toward unity with the Orthodox Church and
                      not
                      > > the Roman Catholic or Protestants. Singing together is a start!
                      > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov <byakimov@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > DIOCESE OF BERLIN AND GERMANY: February 28, 2007
                      > > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
                      > > Hosts
                      > > > the Traditional "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs"
                      > > >
                      > > > The feast day of the Triumph of Orthodoxy was celebrated in the
                      > > > Bavarian capital of Munich with an event called the "Meeting of
                      > > > Orthodox Choirs," which has now become a tradition.
                      > > >
                      > > > Orthodoxy is the third Christian confession in Germany
                      according
                      > to
                      > > the
                      > > > number of adherents, after Protestants and Roman Catholics: by
                      > some
                      > > > estimates there are some one million Orthodox Christians in the
                      > > > country. Orthodoxy is represented in Munich by communities of
                      the
                      > > > Moscow, Constantinople, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Georgian
                      > and
                      > > > Antiochian Patriarchates as well as the Russian Orthodox Church
                      > > Outside
                      > > > of Russia. Believers belonging to the Ancient Eastern Churches
                      > > include
                      > > > representatives of the Armenian, Coptic and Ethiopian diasporas.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia
                      > and
                      > > St
                      > > > Nicholas (ROCOR) was this year's host for the "Meeting of
                      > Orthodox
                      > > > Choirs."
                      > > >
                      > > > The event opened with a brief welcome by His Eminence
                      Archbishop
                      > > Mark
                      > > > of Berlin and Germany. Ten choirs, comprising over 120 singers,
                      > > > demonstrated the beauty of liturgical music, representing the
                      > > Greek,
                      > > > Georgian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and Russian Orthodox
                      > > Churches.
                      > > > Participating also were singers from the Armenian Apostolic
                      > Church
                      > > and
                      > > > the Youth and Children's Choir of the Coptic Church. Among the
                      > > > participants were Orthodox Christians from various émigré
                      > > communities
                      > > > of different ages, students of the Theological Department of
                      the
                      > > > University of Munich and of higher music schools as well as
                      > > > professional singers.
                      > > >
                      > > > Church singing is a form of "adorning the discourse," playing
                      an
                      > > > important role in spiritual communion with God and His Saints.
                      > The
                      > > > "Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" demonstrated various repertories
                      and
                      > > > styles of vocal art, slow, broad singing, and a great deal
                      more.
                      > > The
                      > > > preservation of Byzantine and post-Byzantine traditions was
                      > evident
                      > > in
                      > > > the performance of the parishioners of Munich's Greek Orthodox
                      > > Church.
                      > > > In the view of experts, the finest schools of church singing
                      and
                      > > choral
                      > > > style were heard in the singing of the Resurrection Community
                      of
                      > > Dachau
                      > > > and Munich of the Moscow Patriarchate (directed by Maksim
                      > > Matjushenkov)
                      > > > and the Munich Cathedral of ROCOR (Vladimir Tsjolkovich).
                      > > >
                      > > > "The Meeting of Orthodox Choirs" on the Triumph of Orthodoxy
                      > > concluded
                      > > > by the late evening singing of an akathist to the Mother of God
                      > in
                      > > > Greek, which was sung by everyone in attendance (approximately
                      > 300
                      > > > persons) with notes and texts prepared in advance.
                      > > >
                      > > > Pravoslavie.ru
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ---------------------------------
                      > > > The fish are biting.
                      > > > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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