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Re: Can any CLERGY answer? was: HOW HORRIBLE &TERRIBLE THAT ARCH. HILARION BOWS.

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  • Archpriest David Moser
    ... Well, I don t know where you got that information, but in regard to the agreements worked out between ROCOR and the Church in Russia it is completely in
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 1, 2007
      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:27:00 -0000, interestedplus wrote:
      > In accordance
      > with declarations by the leadership of the MP, ordinations of
      > Bishops and priests of ROCOR parishes on "MP's territory" would be
      > considered invalid, which would place the clergy, in respect to the
      > local authorities, in a position similar to that of sectarians and
      > schismatics.

      Well, I don't know where you got that information, but in regard to
      the agreements worked out between ROCOR and the Church in Russia it is
      completely in error. There is no dispute or question about the status
      of ROCOR clergy in Russia - the only question is about those who were
      suspended or defrocked by one side and who were then received by the
      other, and those were to be addressed on a case by case basis - but
      according to the most recent news release, this issue has been
      completely resolved. Now anyone who chooses to withdraw from the
      Russian Church and remain in schism may well find themselves
      "unrecognized" and outside the protection of the Russian Orthodox
      Church and thus in a similar category with "sectarians and
      schismatics" (since in fact they will have become schismatics)

      > Ninth: Many of the New Martyrs canonized by ROCOR are not accepted
      > and would not be recognized by the MP since they refused to
      > acknowledge the "Declaration" of Metr. Sergey for which they were
      > martyred.
      >

      This is not entirely accurate either. Perhaps in the beginning this
      was the situation, but even back at the all diaspora clergy meeting in
      Nyack 2003 this situation was discussed with the representatives of
      the Moscow Patriarchate. One of the representives (Fr Maxim? - memory
      fails at his point) is a member of the committee for these
      glorifications. He reminded us all that this is an ongoing process
      and he stated that at that time they had already glorified many who
      had not accepted the "delcaration" and that among those whom they were
      preparing to glorify at that time was Metr. Joseph, one of the locum
      tenans of the Patriarchal throne and one of the most well know and
      visible oppontents of Metr. Sergius' actions at that time.

      So whereever the interested person got their information, it was just
      a bit skewed and greatly embellished to present a completly false picture.

      Also, as a delegate to the IVth All Diaspora Sobor, I would have to
      say that the Synod of Bishops did indeed act in complete concert with
      the nearly unanimous declaration of the Sobor. However, I must also
      point out that the All Diaspora Sobor does not give orders to the
      Hierarchal Synod, but rather that the Sobor is an advisory body. The
      authority to determine a course of action and to make binding
      decisions does not rest with the All Diaspora Sobor, but rather with
      the Hierarchal Sobor. Even so, I have not seen anything that might
      even begin to indicate that the Hierarchal Sobor did not act in
      complete concordance with the expressed desire of the All Diaspora Sobor.

      Archpr David Moser
    • michael nikitin
      Protodeacon Basil is disliked by the unia mob. This problem is being caused by those for unia who do not want to waite for the MP to leave WCC and ecumenism. A
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 1, 2007
        Protodeacon Basil is disliked by the unia mob. This problem is
        being caused by those for unia who do not want to waite for the
        MP to leave WCC and ecumenism.

        A poofta has different meanings. Another meaning is someone who
        has no backbone and does what he is told being afraid, even if
        it's against his religion. A kind of sissy in that respect.

        We don't know in what context Protodeacon Basil used this word.
        But maybe Fr.Michael Protopopov knows something we don't know?

        Michael N


        --- Fr Michael Protopopov <proto@...> wrote:

        > A "poofta" is an Aussie-ism for homosexual.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: maestro_vg
        > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:33 AM
        > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: HOW HORRIBLE &TERRIBLE THAT
        > ARCH. HILARION BOWS.. SOVIET MP
        >
        >
        > Fr Basil... can you enlighten all the non-aussies on this
        > list
        > exactly what the term you refer to below, "poofta", means?
        >
        > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Basil Yakimov
        > <byakimov@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=news&div=16295
        > >
        > > I am indeed very sad that my Archbishop Hilarion has to tow
        > &
        > then bow again to the last soviet MP "Patriarch" aka
        > "Drozdov" -- it
        > has been proven beyond any doubt that the current
        > metropolitans,
        > almost to an individual, were KGB agents/informants or even
        > worse...
        > (see Bulgaria, Rumania or currently Poland)... no
        > illustration
        > needed I hope.. The German Arrchbishop Mark is used to such
        > stuff
        > but I remeber in SF to my question he said that the Church
        > does NOT
        > know Compromise... but his comittee has only produced
        > anything
        > and.. ...segianstvo.. ecumenism... kgb collaboration..
        > modernism ...
        > ROCA property... in Palastine and elswhere... and other
        > issues have
        > never been resolved... there will never be any SOBORNOST
        > under the
        > current MP soviet SYNOD???
        > >
        > > The soviets in the MP or Putin's regime are against TRUE
        > ROCA>>>
        > how many will remain true to our blessed, and no doubt now
        > sainted,
        > in memory, metropolitans Anthony, Anastassy., Philaret and
        > Vitaly
        > and all that were true to Holy Orthodoxy but never to
        > sergianstvo/ecumenism and/or KGB ......antichriast himself or
        > his
        > followers...
        > >
        > > unworthy as I am I will fight until the bullet of
        > antichrist is
        > levelled against me...
        > >
        > > (PS, the post soviets have already made threats that I
        > should tow
        > the pro soviet-MP ROCA line...but those that know me it only
        > makes
        > me work harder against these poofta soviets...)..
        > >
        > > But I ask all of you for your prayers that no soviet
        > butcher of
        > the people of Holy Russ ..will ever get away without being
        > condemned ....including those in power currently in Putin's
        > regime
        > or the post soviet MP...
        > >
        > > The Lord will judge us ALL!
        > >
        > > unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra
        >




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      • michael nikitin
        I don t doubt St. Joseph of Petrograd will be glorified as it is too obvious if he won t. He should have been the first one to be glorified. If only because
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 1, 2007
          I don't doubt St. Joseph of Petrograd will be glorified as it is
          too obvious if he won't. He should have been the first one to be
          glorified. If only because they didn't glorify him immediately,
          Is it not obvious what the MP is all about?

          Michael N


          --- DDD <dimitradd@...> wrote:

          > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:27:00 -0000, interestedplus wrote:
          > In accordance
          > with declarations by the leadership of the MP, ordinations of
          > Bishops and priests of ROCOR parishes on "MP's territory"
          > would be
          > considered invalid, which would place the clergy, in respect
          > to the
          > local authorities, in a position similar to that of sectarians
          > and
          > schismatics.
          > Ninth: Many of the New Martyrs canonized by ROCOR are not
          > accepted
          > and would not be recognized by the MP since they refused to
          > acknowledge the "Declaration" of Metr. Sergey for which they
          > were
          > martyred.
          > _________________________________________________
          >
          > I can't address all of your (or Soldatow's) letter now, and who
          > knows if ever for lack of time, but just glancing at these two
          > things for starters:
          >
          > Eight: It's my understanding that ROCOR clergy on "MP's
          > territory" are to choose or to come under a MP bishop/parish,
          > but remain clergy. However, I have no idea if that is correct
          > or not. Could a member of the clergy please answer this?
          >
          > Nine: Many? The only one I can think of is St. Joseph of
          > Petrograd, and even him--I saw him on a Moscow Patriarchate
          > calendar for 2006, his icon and his life. The MP HAS canonized
          > MANY New Martyrs who did not accept the Declaration of Metr.
          > Sergiy. I can't fathom where they're drawing the line --
          > anyone have info on this?
          >
          > --Dimitra Dwelley
          >




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