Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

[orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers

Expand Messages
  • seraphim shinn
    I wonder who told the pope that it s forgiveness Sunday? ... http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/3/_/4386/_/952745576/ ...
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
      I wonder who told the pope that it's forgiveness
      Sunday?

      --- LJames6034@... wrote:
      > In today's Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch, in its tiny
      > little international
      > section, tthere is the following (which is quoted
      > verbatim).
      >
      > Roman Catholic leaders throughout the country are
      > following Pope John Paul
      > II's lead and offering apologies for Catholics' sins
      > against miniority
      > groups, other Chrdistians and alineated memers of
      > the church.
      >
      > Church leaders in Boston and Snata Fe, N.W., plan to
      > offer apologies this
      > weekend, and officials in Los Angeles and Denver
      > already have done so.
      >
      > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
      > Crusades, the Inquisition
      > and other "faults of the past."
      >
      >
      ---------------------------------------------------------30-------------------
      > -----------------------
      >
      > My ancestor, Alfonso the Wise, once said: "Had I
      > been present at the
      > Creation, I could have offered a few corrective
      > criticisms." (Or words to
      > that effect, it was really more pointed than that.)
      >
      > With that saying in mind, I would, personally, like
      > to apologize for cancer
      > cells. Had I been present at the Creation, I would
      > have suggested they be
      > deleted.
      >
      > Father Andrew
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Please visit www.egroups.com to update your profile.
      > Your real name, parish name and city (and
      > affiliation, if not ROCA) are required, but it is
      > your choice as to whether or not your profile is
      > visible to others. If you don't have web access,
      > e-mail this same information to
      > orthodox-synod-owner@egroups.com
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Get paid for the stuff you know!
      > Get answers for the stuff you don�t. And get $10 to
      > spend on the site!
      >
      http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/3/_/4386/_/952745576/
      >
      > eGroups.com Home:
      > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod/
      > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group
      > communications
      >
      >
      >
      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
      http://im.yahoo.com
    • Robert Miller
      His good friend Patr Bartholomew might have told him. But I notice he is asking forgiveness of those who are alienated from the Church. From which Church?
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
        His good friend Patr Bartholomew might have told him.
        But I notice he is asking forgiveness of those who are alienated from the
        Church.
        From which Church?

        Joseph M

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "seraphim shinn" <seraphimtex@...>
        To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 8:03 PM
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


        > I wonder who told the pope that it's forgiveness
        > Sunday?
        >
        > --- LJames6034@... wrote:
        > > In today's Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch, in its tiny
        > > little international
        > > section, tthere is the following (which is quoted
        > > verbatim).
        > >
        > > Roman Catholic leaders throughout the country are
        > > following Pope John Paul
        > > II's lead and offering apologies for Catholics' sins
        > > against miniority
        > > groups, other Chrdistians and alineated memers of
        > > the church.
        >


        Joseph M
      • Carol A Surgant
        ... Crusades, the Inquisition and other faults of the past. ... Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
          > > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
          Crusades, the Inquisition and other "faults of the past."
          > >
          >

          Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
          genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
          during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
          -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
          dead 1000 years before he can apologize?

          I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
          Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
          for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
          there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?

          Forgive me a sinner,

          Carol


          ________________________________________________________________
          YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
          Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
          Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
          http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
        • Robert Miller
          In all the years I was Roman Catholic before discovering Orthodox Christianity, I never heard of any Forgiveness service at all. So that is why I m simply
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
            In all the years I was Roman Catholic before discovering Orthodox
            Christianity, I never heard of any Forgiveness service at all. So that is
            why I'm simply quite skeptical about this grand gesture Pope John Paul II
            and some R. C. leaders elsewhere is making. It seems to me he can want
            nothing more than to show that he can do things that look Orthodox/orthodox
            too. This gesture certainly has a Papist hook in it somehow. And let there
            be no doubt, any Orthodox leader who casts doubt on the Pope's intentions
            will certainly be stoned for ingratitude and 'lacking love.'

            Joseph Miller
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Carol A Surgant" <casurgant@...>
            To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
            Cc: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 9:39 AM
            Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


            >
            > > > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
            > Crusades, the Inquisition and other "faults of the past."
            > > >
            > >
            >
            > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
            > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
            > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
            > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
            > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
            >
            > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
            > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
            > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
            > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
            >
            > Forgive me a sinner,
            >
            > Carol
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________
            > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
            > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
            > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
            > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Please visit www.egroups.com to update your profile. Your real name,
            parish name and city (and affiliation, if not ROCA) are required, but it is
            your choice as to whether or not your profile is visible to others. If you
            don't have web access, e-mail this same information to
            orthodox-synod-owner@egroups.com
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
            > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/4386/_/952796416/
            >
            > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
            > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=orthodox-synod&m=1
            >
            >
            >
          • Robert Miller
            And besides that, it will certainly be interesting to see whether the Serb genocide is mentioned in the Apology. Thanks to Carol for pointing this out.
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
              And besides that, it will certainly be interesting to see whether the Serb
              genocide is mentioned in the 'Apology.'
              Thanks to Carol for pointing this out.

              Joseph Miller

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Carol A Surgant" <casurgant@...>
              To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
              Cc: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 9:39 AM
              Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


              >
              > > > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
              > Crusades, the Inquisition and other "faults of the past."
              > > >
              > >
              >
              > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
              > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
              > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
              > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
              > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
              >
              > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
              > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
              > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
              > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
              >
              > Forgive me a sinner,
              >
              > Carol
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________
              > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
              > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
              > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
              > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > Please visit www.egroups.com to update your profile. Your real name,
              parish name and city (and affiliation, if not ROCA) are required, but it is
              your choice as to whether or not your profile is visible to others. If you
              don't have web access, e-mail this same information to
              orthodox-synod-owner@egroups.com
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
              > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
              > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/4386/_/952796416/
              >
              > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
              > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=orthodox-synod&m=1
              >
              >
              >
            • Sandra Thompson
              There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don t see why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn t do. It s kind of like the
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
                There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don't see
                why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn't do. It's kind of like
                the Clinton apology for US past war deeds.
                >
                > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
                > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
                > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
                > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
                > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
                >
                > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
                > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
                > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
                > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
                >
                > Forgive me a sinner,
                >
                > Carol
                >
                >
                > ________________________________________________________________
                > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
                > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
                > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
                > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Please visit www.egroups.com to update your profile. Your real name,
                parish name and city (and affiliation, if not ROCA) are required, but it is
                your choice as to whether or not your profile is visible to others. If you
                don't have web access, e-mail this same information to
                orthodox-synod-owner@egroups.com
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
                > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
                > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/4386/_/952796416/
                >
                > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
                > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=orthodox-synod&m=1
                >
              • Robert Miller
                If the Pope is apologizing for what happened in 1204 in Constantinople, and for the Inquisition of the western Middle Ages and for the Roman part of 1054, for
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
                  If the Pope is apologizing for what happened in 1204 in Constantinople, and
                  for the Inquisition of the western Middle Ages and for the Roman part of
                  1054, for not helping the Christian East in 1439, and whatever else, he is
                  already apologizing for things the Roman Catholic Church as sponsored, but
                  over which he had not control of course. As to the Serbian massacres, he
                  was already a Roman Catholic clergyman. The Balamand Statement of 1993
                  which he engineered does not suggest he feels overly sympathetic to Orthodox
                  Churches. But let us remember that Patriarchs of Constantinople have
                  already referred to the Pope as "Our Elder Brother," and the Eastern and
                  Western Churches have called themselves the 'two lungs of the Church.' So
                  let us watch warily to see what really happens. We owe them Christian love,
                  but we dare not give them our submission.

                  Joseph Miller
                  As to what he will really say on Sunday, why don't we just wait to see what
                  it is?
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Sandra Thompson" <sandra@...>
                  To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 1:00 PM
                  Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


                  > There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don't see
                  > why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn't do. It's kind of
                  like
                  > the Clinton apology for US past war deeds.
                  > >
                  > > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
                  > > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
                  > > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
                  > > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
                  > > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
                  > >
                  > > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
                  > > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
                  > > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
                  > > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
                  > >
                  > > Forgive me a sinner,
                  > >
                  > > Carol
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________________________________________
                  > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
                  > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
                  > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
                  > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > Please visit www.egroups.com to update your profile. Your real name,
                  > parish name and city (and affiliation, if not ROCA) are required, but it
                  is
                  > your choice as to whether or not your profile is visible to others. If
                  you
                  > don't have web access, e-mail this same information to
                  > orthodox-synod-owner@egroups.com
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
                  > > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
                  > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/4386/_/952796416/
                  > >
                  > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
                  > > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=orthodox-synod&m=1
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Please visit www.egroups.com to update your profile. Your real name,
                  parish name and city (and affiliation, if not ROCA) are required, but it is
                  your choice as to whether or not your profile is visible to others. If you
                  don't have web access, e-mail this same information to
                  orthodox-synod-owner@egroups.com
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
                  > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/3/_/4386/_/952811402/
                  >
                  > eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod/
                  > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                  >
                  >
                • Michael Malloy
                  It wouldn t hurt for Clinton to start by offering an apology for HIS deeds! ... Michael Malloy (Not related to anybody named Mallory) Prove me, O God, and
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
                    It wouldn't hurt for Clinton to start by offering an apology for HIS deeds!


                    >There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don't see
                    >why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn't do. It's kind of like
                    >the Clinton apology for US past war deeds.

                    Michael Malloy (Not related to anybody named Mallory)

                    Prove me, O God, and know my heart;
                    examine me and know my paths.
                    And see if the way of iniquity be in me,
                    and guide me in the way everlasting.

                    - Psalm 139:23-24

                    "Blazhen muzh, izhe nye ide na sovyet nechestivykh..."
                    - Psalm 1
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    Michael Malloy (malloy.2@...) (614) 292-2319
                    Ohio State University Libraries
                    Music and Dance Library - Room 166 Sullivant Hall
                    1813 North High Street, Columbus OH 43210
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  • LJames6034@aol.com
                    Whose church does the pope mean? This reminds me of the time when one of my theses was rejected for publication in the Antiochian magazine, by Metropolitan
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
                      Whose church does the pope mean? This reminds me of the time when one of my
                      theses was rejected for publication in the Antiochian magazine, by
                      Metropolitan PHILIP, even though he was intrigued by it. I was told he was
                      "afraid 'they' would come bomb the house."

                      "Whose house?" I asked.

                      "Why, his house, of course."

                      In the same way: The pope is apologizing to those who are turned off my his
                      church, not to those outside the Catholic Church---who would, in fact,
                      include him!


                      Father Andrew (the one in Ohio)
                    • Wilibrad@aol.com
                      We owe them Christian love, but we dare not give them submission. That is a quote that should be inscribed on the hearts of all Orthodox. The popes, since
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 12, 2000
                        "We owe them Christian love, but we dare not give them submission."
                        That is a quote that should be inscribed on the hearts of all Orthodox. The
                        popes, since Unam Sanctam, in the Middle Ages, see themselves as THE power
                        over all the earth. It is that simple. Many modernists have no problem with
                        that; those of us in the traditionalist arm of the Church rightly should. Our
                        Faith is at stake, lest we do submit. God forbid!
                        Brothers ans sister, on this day I ask you forgiveness.
                        Reader Stephen
                      • LJames6034@aol.com
                        Michael, One of the saints said: I am worse than a dog. A dog is always loving and does not judge. Forgiveness must always include asking for forgiveness,
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 12, 2000
                          Michael,

                          One of the saints said: "I am worse than a dog. A dog is always loving and
                          does not judge."

                          Forgiveness must always include asking for forgiveness, as you suggest.

                          I recall when, years ago, I had a letter in "Dear Abby." It was intended to
                          be an amusing swipe at those who want to call everyone "Reverend."

                          I said: "Protestant ministers should be called 'Mr." unless they have
                          doctorates. In which case, they should be called 'Dr.' Priests are always
                          called 'Father.' I don't know what we should call the new Episcopal
                          priestesses. How about 'mother'."

                          Abby replied: "It will never fly in Peoria."

                          Abby later published a letter from a Lutheran ministeress. She said:
                          "Father James, I forgive you for not loving me."

                          I responded to her, privately "You cannot forgive me for loving you. I do
                          not repent. Even God cannot forgive what is not repented, and I cannot
                          repent for something I have not done. I CANNOT love you. I don't even know
                          you! See why women should not be made clergypersons?"

                          One must not mistake Republican politics for the Holy Orthodox Catholic
                          Church.


                          Father Andrew (who is in the same city as you, as I recall)
                        • DCNDIMITRI@aol.com
                          Glory to our Saviour, Jesus Christ! i, a wretched sinner beg your forgiveness. i spent the first twelve years of my education in a catholic school. Never have
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 16, 2000
                            Glory to our Saviour, Jesus Christ!

                            i, a wretched sinner beg your forgiveness.

                            i spent the first twelve years of my education in a catholic school. Never
                            have i heard of a catholic forgiveness sunday. However, this week for the
                            first time, i heard this week referred to as pardon week.

                            >We owe them Christian love, but we dare not give them our submission.>

                            Well put Joseph.

                            Anyone allowing themselves to be referred to as the vicar of Christ, needs to
                            be kept at a distance. If Apostle Peter is considered the first pope,
                            remember how he asked for the cross to be turned upside down, knowing that he
                            is not worthy to suffer the same death as our Saviour, therefore,
                            annihilating any possibility of the reference to as the vicar of Christ.
                            This should be the example for all the following popes.

                            In desperate need of your prayers, i am,

                            yours in Christ,
                            the unworthy and sinful
                            deacon dimitri
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.