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[orthodox-synod] The newspapers

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  • LJames6034@aol.com
    In today s Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch, in its tiny little international section, tthere is the following (which is quoted verbatim). Roman Catholic leaders
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
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      In today's Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch, in its tiny little international
      section, tthere is the following (which is quoted verbatim).

      Roman Catholic leaders throughout the country are following Pope John Paul
      II's lead and offering apologies for Catholics' sins against miniority
      groups, other Chrdistians and alineated memers of the church.

      Church leaders in Boston and Snata Fe, N.W., plan to offer apologies this
      weekend, and officials in Los Angeles and Denver already have done so.

      On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the Crusades, the Inquisition
      and other "faults of the past."

      ---------------------------------------------------------30-------------------
      -----------------------

      My ancestor, Alfonso the Wise, once said: "Had I been present at the
      Creation, I could have offered a few corrective criticisms." (Or words to
      that effect, it was really more pointed than that.)

      With that saying in mind, I would, personally, like to apologize for cancer
      cells. Had I been present at the Creation, I would have suggested they be
      deleted.

      Father Andrew
    • seraphim shinn
      I wonder who told the pope that it s forgiveness Sunday? ... http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/3/_/4386/_/952745576/ ...
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
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        I wonder who told the pope that it's forgiveness
        Sunday?

        --- LJames6034@... wrote:
        > In today's Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch, in its tiny
        > little international
        > section, tthere is the following (which is quoted
        > verbatim).
        >
        > Roman Catholic leaders throughout the country are
        > following Pope John Paul
        > II's lead and offering apologies for Catholics' sins
        > against miniority
        > groups, other Chrdistians and alineated memers of
        > the church.
        >
        > Church leaders in Boston and Snata Fe, N.W., plan to
        > offer apologies this
        > weekend, and officials in Los Angeles and Denver
        > already have done so.
        >
        > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
        > Crusades, the Inquisition
        > and other "faults of the past."
        >
        >
        ---------------------------------------------------------30-------------------
        > -----------------------
        >
        > My ancestor, Alfonso the Wise, once said: "Had I
        > been present at the
        > Creation, I could have offered a few corrective
        > criticisms." (Or words to
        > that effect, it was really more pointed than that.)
        >
        > With that saying in mind, I would, personally, like
        > to apologize for cancer
        > cells. Had I been present at the Creation, I would
        > have suggested they be
        > deleted.
        >
        > Father Andrew
        >
        >
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      • Robert Miller
        His good friend Patr Bartholomew might have told him. But I notice he is asking forgiveness of those who are alienated from the Church. From which Church?
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
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          His good friend Patr Bartholomew might have told him.
          But I notice he is asking forgiveness of those who are alienated from the
          Church.
          From which Church?

          Joseph M

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "seraphim shinn" <seraphimtex@...>
          To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 8:03 PM
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


          > I wonder who told the pope that it's forgiveness
          > Sunday?
          >
          > --- LJames6034@... wrote:
          > > In today's Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch, in its tiny
          > > little international
          > > section, tthere is the following (which is quoted
          > > verbatim).
          > >
          > > Roman Catholic leaders throughout the country are
          > > following Pope John Paul
          > > II's lead and offering apologies for Catholics' sins
          > > against miniority
          > > groups, other Chrdistians and alineated memers of
          > > the church.
          >


          Joseph M
        • Carol A Surgant
          ... Crusades, the Inquisition and other faults of the past. ... Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
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            > > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
            Crusades, the Inquisition and other "faults of the past."
            > >
            >

            Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
            genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
            during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
            -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
            dead 1000 years before he can apologize?

            I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
            Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
            for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
            there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?

            Forgive me a sinner,

            Carol


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          • Robert Miller
            In all the years I was Roman Catholic before discovering Orthodox Christianity, I never heard of any Forgiveness service at all. So that is why I m simply
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
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              In all the years I was Roman Catholic before discovering Orthodox
              Christianity, I never heard of any Forgiveness service at all. So that is
              why I'm simply quite skeptical about this grand gesture Pope John Paul II
              and some R. C. leaders elsewhere is making. It seems to me he can want
              nothing more than to show that he can do things that look Orthodox/orthodox
              too. This gesture certainly has a Papist hook in it somehow. And let there
              be no doubt, any Orthodox leader who casts doubt on the Pope's intentions
              will certainly be stoned for ingratitude and 'lacking love.'

              Joseph Miller
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Carol A Surgant" <casurgant@...>
              To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
              Cc: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 9:39 AM
              Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


              >
              > > > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
              > Crusades, the Inquisition and other "faults of the past."
              > > >
              > >
              >
              > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
              > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
              > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
              > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
              > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
              >
              > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
              > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
              > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
              > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
              >
              > Forgive me a sinner,
              >
              > Carol
              >
              >
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            • Robert Miller
              And besides that, it will certainly be interesting to see whether the Serb genocide is mentioned in the Apology. Thanks to Carol for pointing this out.
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
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                And besides that, it will certainly be interesting to see whether the Serb
                genocide is mentioned in the 'Apology.'
                Thanks to Carol for pointing this out.

                Joseph Miller

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Carol A Surgant" <casurgant@...>
                To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
                Cc: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 9:39 AM
                Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


                >
                > > > On Sunday, the pope plans to express regret for the
                > Crusades, the Inquisition and other "faults of the past."
                > > >
                > >
                >
                > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
                > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
                > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
                > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
                > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
                >
                > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
                > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
                > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
                > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
                >
                > Forgive me a sinner,
                >
                > Carol
                >
                >
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              • Sandra Thompson
                There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don t see why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn t do. It s kind of like the
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
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                  There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don't see
                  why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn't do. It's kind of like
                  the Clinton apology for US past war deeds.
                  >
                  > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
                  > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
                  > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
                  > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
                  > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
                  >
                  > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
                  > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
                  > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
                  > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
                  >
                  > Forgive me a sinner,
                  >
                  > Carol
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________________________________________
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                • Robert Miller
                  If the Pope is apologizing for what happened in 1204 in Constantinople, and for the Inquisition of the western Middle Ages and for the Roman part of 1054, for
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
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                    If the Pope is apologizing for what happened in 1204 in Constantinople, and
                    for the Inquisition of the western Middle Ages and for the Roman part of
                    1054, for not helping the Christian East in 1439, and whatever else, he is
                    already apologizing for things the Roman Catholic Church as sponsored, but
                    over which he had not control of course. As to the Serbian massacres, he
                    was already a Roman Catholic clergyman. The Balamand Statement of 1993
                    which he engineered does not suggest he feels overly sympathetic to Orthodox
                    Churches. But let us remember that Patriarchs of Constantinople have
                    already referred to the Pope as "Our Elder Brother," and the Eastern and
                    Western Churches have called themselves the 'two lungs of the Church.' So
                    let us watch warily to see what really happens. We owe them Christian love,
                    but we dare not give them our submission.

                    Joseph Miller
                    As to what he will really say on Sunday, why don't we just wait to see what
                    it is?
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Sandra Thompson" <sandra@...>
                    To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 1:00 PM
                    Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The newspapers


                    > There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don't see
                    > why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn't do. It's kind of
                    like
                    > the Clinton apology for US past war deeds.
                    > >
                    > > Is the pope also going to ask forgiveness for the
                    > > genocide of more than 700,000 Orthodox Christians
                    > > during WWII and the actions of the Ustasi?
                    > > -- or do we have to wait for all the perpetrators to be
                    > > dead 1000 years before he can apologize?
                    > >
                    > > I haven't heard anyone comment on this -- was this
                    > > Sunday specifically chosen because of the signifance
                    > > for Orthodox to ask forgiveness on this day -- (or is
                    > > there also a forgiveness sunday in the roman church?
                    > >
                    > > Forgive me a sinner,
                    > >
                    > > Carol
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________________________________________
                    > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
                    > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
                    > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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                    > >
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                    > your choice as to whether or not your profile is visible to others. If
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                  • Michael Malloy
                    It wouldn t hurt for Clinton to start by offering an apology for HIS deeds! ... Michael Malloy (Not related to anybody named Mallory) Prove me, O God, and
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
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                      It wouldn't hurt for Clinton to start by offering an apology for HIS deeds!


                      >There was no forgiveness day when I was in the Roman church. I don't see
                      >why the Pope should aplolgize for something he didn't do. It's kind of like
                      >the Clinton apology for US past war deeds.

                      Michael Malloy (Not related to anybody named Mallory)

                      Prove me, O God, and know my heart;
                      examine me and know my paths.
                      And see if the way of iniquity be in me,
                      and guide me in the way everlasting.

                      - Psalm 139:23-24

                      "Blazhen muzh, izhe nye ide na sovyet nechestivykh..."
                      - Psalm 1
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Michael Malloy (malloy.2@...) (614) 292-2319
                      Ohio State University Libraries
                      Music and Dance Library - Room 166 Sullivant Hall
                      1813 North High Street, Columbus OH 43210
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    • LJames6034@aol.com
                      Whose church does the pope mean? This reminds me of the time when one of my theses was rejected for publication in the Antiochian magazine, by Metropolitan
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 11, 2000
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                        Whose church does the pope mean? This reminds me of the time when one of my
                        theses was rejected for publication in the Antiochian magazine, by
                        Metropolitan PHILIP, even though he was intrigued by it. I was told he was
                        "afraid 'they' would come bomb the house."

                        "Whose house?" I asked.

                        "Why, his house, of course."

                        In the same way: The pope is apologizing to those who are turned off my his
                        church, not to those outside the Catholic Church---who would, in fact,
                        include him!


                        Father Andrew (the one in Ohio)
                      • Wilibrad@aol.com
                        We owe them Christian love, but we dare not give them submission. That is a quote that should be inscribed on the hearts of all Orthodox. The popes, since
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 12, 2000
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                          "We owe them Christian love, but we dare not give them submission."
                          That is a quote that should be inscribed on the hearts of all Orthodox. The
                          popes, since Unam Sanctam, in the Middle Ages, see themselves as THE power
                          over all the earth. It is that simple. Many modernists have no problem with
                          that; those of us in the traditionalist arm of the Church rightly should. Our
                          Faith is at stake, lest we do submit. God forbid!
                          Brothers ans sister, on this day I ask you forgiveness.
                          Reader Stephen
                        • LJames6034@aol.com
                          Michael, One of the saints said: I am worse than a dog. A dog is always loving and does not judge. Forgiveness must always include asking for forgiveness,
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 12, 2000
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                            Michael,

                            One of the saints said: "I am worse than a dog. A dog is always loving and
                            does not judge."

                            Forgiveness must always include asking for forgiveness, as you suggest.

                            I recall when, years ago, I had a letter in "Dear Abby." It was intended to
                            be an amusing swipe at those who want to call everyone "Reverend."

                            I said: "Protestant ministers should be called 'Mr." unless they have
                            doctorates. In which case, they should be called 'Dr.' Priests are always
                            called 'Father.' I don't know what we should call the new Episcopal
                            priestesses. How about 'mother'."

                            Abby replied: "It will never fly in Peoria."

                            Abby later published a letter from a Lutheran ministeress. She said:
                            "Father James, I forgive you for not loving me."

                            I responded to her, privately "You cannot forgive me for loving you. I do
                            not repent. Even God cannot forgive what is not repented, and I cannot
                            repent for something I have not done. I CANNOT love you. I don't even know
                            you! See why women should not be made clergypersons?"

                            One must not mistake Republican politics for the Holy Orthodox Catholic
                            Church.


                            Father Andrew (who is in the same city as you, as I recall)
                          • DCNDIMITRI@aol.com
                            Glory to our Saviour, Jesus Christ! i, a wretched sinner beg your forgiveness. i spent the first twelve years of my education in a catholic school. Never have
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 16, 2000
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                              Glory to our Saviour, Jesus Christ!

                              i, a wretched sinner beg your forgiveness.

                              i spent the first twelve years of my education in a catholic school. Never
                              have i heard of a catholic forgiveness sunday. However, this week for the
                              first time, i heard this week referred to as pardon week.

                              >We owe them Christian love, but we dare not give them our submission.>

                              Well put Joseph.

                              Anyone allowing themselves to be referred to as the vicar of Christ, needs to
                              be kept at a distance. If Apostle Peter is considered the first pope,
                              remember how he asked for the cross to be turned upside down, knowing that he
                              is not worthy to suffer the same death as our Saviour, therefore,
                              annihilating any possibility of the reference to as the vicar of Christ.
                              This should be the example for all the following popes.

                              In desperate need of your prayers, i am,

                              yours in Christ,
                              the unworthy and sinful
                              deacon dimitri
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