Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

LIST GUIDELINES (Periodic re-posting)

Expand Messages
  • Rev Fr Mark Gilstrap
    LIST GUIDELINES (Periodic re-posting) =============================== Welcome to the ORTHODOX-SYNOD group This Yahoo Group is a continuation of the
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 8, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      LIST GUIDELINES (Periodic re-posting)

      ===============================

      Welcome to the ORTHODOX-SYNOD group

      This Yahoo Group is a continuation of
      the Orthodox_Synod mailing list spun
      off as a sub-list of ORTHODOX@...
      beginning in the early '90s.

      The moderator continues to be priest
      Mark Gilstrap (www.stjamesok.org)

      I hope you will find the Synod list
      informative and enjoyable. Please be
      assured that you are welcome to
      participate to whatever degree you wish,
      or to simply read, if you prefer.

      Please make sure your real name appears
      on your subscription. Aliases are not
      allowed, nor are organizational names
      allowed w/o a specific responsible human
      being listed. If you feel strongly that
      using your real name is detrimental for
      some reason, please contact me privately
      and confidentially, to explain.

      The following are some list guidelines
      adapted from those found at the Cincinnati
      Linux Users Group (by Athanasius Thompson
      who hosted this list at geckonet in 1997)

      -------------

      Keep messages on-topic. This is a group
      centered on issues of interest and benefit
      to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
      aka "the Synod"

      This list started fifteen years ago as the first
      sub-list of ORTHODOX@..., and
      as such has similar guidelines -- and also an
      above average diversity of participants.

      Orthodox-Synod, with about 850 members
      is one of the largest Orthodox lists on the
      internet. Please use your access
      responsibly.

      Orthodox-Synod is not a bulletin board
      for posting items for as many people as
      possible to see.

      Your purpose in contributing should be to
      seek information and explanations etc..
      or to inform, enrich or edify others, or
      to seek and build orthodox community and
      mutual understanding, connect the isolated,
      support the struggles of others, reflect
      the love of Christ, support His Church and
      promote the centrality of the Life in Christ,
      not to put something (esp. oneself) on
      display.

      Consider whether your message is really
      worth sending to hundreds of people. If
      it is, don't hesitate.

      Do not send or attach entire documents to
      the list. Send a URL (web address) where
      interested readers can find it. Or offer
      to send it to those who request it.

      See http://www.makeashorterlink.com/ for
      help reducing the size of long links

      Remove most of the words quoted from messages
      to which you reply. Delete all but the most
      relevant text which is necessary to establish
      the context for your reply. Keeping an entire
      thread intact in every message is discouraged.
      History is instead maintained in the archives
      by Subject title (so make sure it is relevant)
      and by date. Top posting is not discouraged
      since it is more efficient when the entire
      thread history is not required.

      Don't send "me too" messages. One-line replies
      of agreement are wasteful. But feel free to
      respond if you have more to say than simple
      agreement (or disagreement - i.e. zingers).

      General rule of thumb:

      **** Do not quote more lines of a message
      **** than you have yourself written.

      If you didn't write it, haven't contributed
      anything to a posting's composition, haven't
      made clear its relevance or defined the
      context (or have violated any other guideline),
      ask yourself why you are thinking of sending it.

      Post to the LIST (to all members), not to an
      individual. Personal mail should be private
      mail.

      Proclamations to the LIST about an individual
      are not allowed.

      Speak to the truth of the facts, quality of
      the premises, and logic of the conclusions
      of the other participants, not to their person
      (ad hominem). If you put another person's
      name in the subject line, you have already
      crossed the line.

      If you must correct factual errors on the
      list, be polite and correct just the facts.
      Don't attack the author - be careful about
      uses of "you" and "your" in such replies,
      since they can make the response appear to
      be personal.

      "Praise in public; criticize in private."
      Some disagreements are inevitable but take
      flames off-line from the list.

      If membership to this list constitutes the
      basis for private harassment (such as a
      service provider would consider abuse, not
      just negative feedback) send the evidence
      to owner-orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com and
      the abusive member will be contacted to
      provide an acceptable explanation/rebuttal
      in lieu of removal.

      To stop undesired private feedback to your
      public postings, inform the sender that you
      do not wish to correspond privately (tell
      them to stop). If it continues it will be
      considered to meet the definition of abuse
      above and the offending member will be
      removed.

      Do not post private email correspondence
      without the permission of the author of
      the email. Private email is just that --
      private.

      Not only does this list prohibit non-consensual
      posting of private mail, it also prohibits the
      consensual posting of private mail as a means
      for a non-member to participate at arms-length
      through others. Such "proxy posting" has been
      the source of many woes.

      "Proxy Posting" is defined as the remote
      participation on a list (by non-member,
      or member) through the posting privilege
      of a third party who is a member of the
      list. This activity is not allowed.

      Proxy posting can allow avoidance of personal
      responsibility for what one says. In this
      hair-trigger environment we want people to
      be more, not less, responsible. Religious
      discussions are particularly prone to abuse
      in this realm.

      Think twice before cross-posting messages to
      the Synod list and other forums. Have you ever
      wondered about postings that seem to be coming
      out of left field without context or history?
      This is probably a cross-posting from elsewhere.
      If you want to introduce to this list a topic
      being discussed elsewhere, start a new thread.

      Keep your e-mail signature short - 5 lines or
      fewer. This includes the -- separator line,
      allowing for up to four lines of content.

      Dense text is especially hard to read on a
      monitor. Remember the printed medium guide:

      "White space increases readership"

      Do not BCC anything to the lists - many people
      have mail filters which sort messages into a
      separate mailbox, based on the address on the
      message. Failure to put the list address in
      the message headers will mess up the mail filing
      for a lot of people.

      Members of the Orthodox-Synod list agree to
      abide by the above guidelines. The list owner
      reserves the right to restrict access to anyone
      from the email list for

      1.Repeated off-topic postings.
      2.Repeated personal attacks.
      3.Repeated disruptive behavior
    • Rev Fr Mark Gilstrap
      Orthodox-synod is a privately moderated discussion group created originally as a voluntary alternative venue for the public arguments then taking place on the
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 22, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Orthodox-synod is a privately moderated discussion group created
        originally as a voluntary alternative venue for the public arguments
        then taking place on the world stage of the ORTHODOX list. These
        tensions were related to what has been referred to as the ROCOR/ROCA
        dichotomy within out church. This dichotomy has played out now into a
        clear differentiation between those who desire union with Moscow in
        May '07, and those who remain cautious and even fearful of such.

        These Guidelines below have proven themselves here, and for 20 years
        on the ORTHODOX ListServ list hosted at Indiana University. If you
        desire a more controlled "discussion" then you will find such an
        alternative venue was already created a few years ago: orthodox-rocor.
        Also, for clergy, an alternative to the rocaclergy list was created
        at about the same time by the authority of ROCOR External Affairs
        under Fr Joachim Paar, shortly before he joined the Moscow
        Patriarchate. It is appropriately called rocor-clergy.


        LIST GUIDELINES (Periodic re-posting)

        ===============================

        Welcome to the ORTHODOX-SYNOD group

        This Yahoo Group is a continuation of
        the Orthodox_Synod mailing list spun
        off as a sub-list of ORTHODOX@...
        beginning in the early '90s.

        The moderator continues to be priest
        Mark Gilstrap (www.stjamesok.org)

        I hope you will find the Synod list
        informative and enjoyable. Please be
        assured that you are welcome to
        participate to whatever degree you wish,
        or to simply read, if you prefer.

        Please make sure your real name appears
        on your subscription. Aliases are not
        allowed, nor are organizational names
        allowed w/o a specific responsible human
        being listed. If you feel strongly that
        using your real name is detrimental for
        some reason, please contact me privately
        and confidentially, to explain.

        The following are some list guidelines
        adapted from those found at the Cincinnati
        Linux Users Group (by Athanasius Thompson
        who hosted this list at geckonet in 1997)

        -------------

        Keep messages on-topic. This is a group
        centered on issues of interest and benefit
        to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
        aka "the Synod"

        This list started fifteen years ago as the first
        sub-list of ORTHODOX@..., and
        as such has similar guidelines -- and also an
        above average diversity of participants.

        Orthodox-Synod, with about 850 members
        is one of the largest Orthodox lists on the
        internet. Please use your access
        responsibly.

        Orthodox-Synod is not a bulletin board
        for posting items for as many people as
        possible to see.

        Your purpose in contributing should be to
        seek information and explanations etc..
        or to inform, enrich or edify others, or
        to seek and build orthodox community and
        mutual understanding, connect the isolated,
        support the struggles of others, reflect
        the love of Christ, support His Church and
        promote the centrality of the Life in Christ,
        not to put something (esp. oneself) on
        display.

        Consider whether your message is really
        worth sending to hundreds of people. If
        it is, don't hesitate.

        Do not send or attach entire documents to
        the list. Send a URL (web address) where
        interested readers can find it. Or offer
        to send it to those who request it.

        See http://www.makeashorterlink.com/ for
        help reducing the size of long links

        Remove most of the words quoted from messages
        to which you reply. Delete all but the most
        relevant text which is necessary to establish
        the context for your reply. Keeping an entire
        thread intact in every message is discouraged.
        History is instead maintained in the archives
        by Subject title (so make sure it is relevant)
        and by date. Top posting is not discouraged
        since it is more efficient when the entire
        thread history is not required.

        Don't send "me too" messages. One-line replies
        of agreement are wasteful. But feel free to
        respond if you have more to say than simple
        agreement (or disagreement - i.e. zingers).

        General rule of thumb:

        **** Do not quote more lines of a message
        **** than you have yourself written.

        If you didn't write it, haven't contributed
        anything to a posting's composition, haven't
        made clear its relevance or defined the
        context (or have violated any other guideline),
        ask yourself why you are thinking of sending it.

        Post to the LIST (to all members), not to an
        individual. Personal mail should be private
        mail.

        Proclamations to the LIST about an individual
        are not allowed.

        Speak to the truth of the facts, quality of
        the premises, and logic of the conclusions
        of the other participants, not to their person
        (ad hominem). If you put another person's
        name in the subject line, you have already
        crossed the line.

        If you must correct factual errors on the
        list, be polite and correct just the facts.
        Don't attack the author - be careful about
        uses of "you" and "your" in such replies,
        since they can make the response appear to
        be personal.

        "Praise in public; criticize in private."
        Some disagreements are inevitable but take
        flames off-line from the list.

        If membership to this list constitutes the
        basis for private harassment (such as a
        service provider would consider abuse, not
        just negative feedback) send the evidence
        to owner-orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com and
        the abusive member will be contacted to
        provide an acceptable explanation/rebuttal
        in lieu of removal.

        To stop undesired private feedback to your
        public postings, inform the sender that you
        do not wish to correspond privately (tell
        them to stop). If it continues it will be
        considered to meet the definition of abuse
        above and the offending member will be
        removed.

        Do not post private email correspondence
        without the permission of the author of
        the email. Private email is just that --
        private.

        Not only does this list prohibit non-consensual
        posting of private mail, it also prohibits the
        consensual posting of private mail as a means
        for a non-member to participate at arms-length
        through others. Such "proxy posting" has been
        the source of many woes.

        "Proxy Posting" is defined as the remote
        participation on a list (by non-member,
        or member) through the posting privilege
        of a third party who is a member of the
        list. This activity is not allowed.

        Proxy posting can allow avoidance of personal
        responsibility for what one says. In this
        hair-trigger environment we want people to
        be more, not less, responsible. Religious
        discussions are particularly prone to abuse
        in this realm.

        Think twice before cross-posting messages to
        the Synod list and other forums. Have you ever
        wondered about postings that seem to be coming
        out of left field without context or history?
        This is probably a cross-posting from elsewhere.
        If you want to introduce to this list a topic
        being discussed elsewhere, start a new thread.

        Keep your e-mail signature short - 5 lines or
        fewer. This includes the -- separator line,
        allowing for up to four lines of content.

        Dense text is especially hard to read on a
        monitor. Remember the printed medium guide:

        "White space increases readership"

        Do not BCC anything to the lists - many people
        have mail filters which sort messages into a
        separate mailbox, based on the address on the
        message. Failure to put the list address in
        the message headers will mess up the mail filing
        for a lot of people.

        Members of the Orthodox-Synod list agree to
        abide by the above guidelines. The list owner
        reserves the right to restrict access to anyone
        from the email list for

        1.Repeated off-topic postings.
        2.Repeated personal attacks.
        3.Repeated disruptive behavior
      • Vassa Meister
        Fr. Mark, It seems to me that there are those on this list who do not follow the guidelines outlined below, especially those about not attacking the authors
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 22, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Fr. Mark,
          It seems to me that there are those on this list who do not follow
          the guidelines outlined below, especially those about "not attacking
          the authors" of various posts and other rules regarding civility. I
          responded to Fr. Victor's proposal about refining the list but my
          response was not published. Is it because I agreed with his opinion
          and am for reunification? I have only written a message on this
          list a couple of times and this is the second time my post was not
          listed.
          In Christ,
          Vassa


          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Rev Fr Mark Gilstrap"
          <fr.mark@...> wrote:
          >
          > Orthodox-synod is a privately moderated discussion group created
          > originally as a voluntary alternative venue for the public
          arguments
          > then taking place on the world stage of the ORTHODOX list. These
          > tensions were related to what has been referred to as the
          ROCOR/ROCA
          > dichotomy within out church. This dichotomy has played out now
          into a
          > clear differentiation between those who desire union with Moscow in
          > May '07, and those who remain cautious and even fearful of such.
          >
          > These Guidelines below have proven themselves here, and for 20
          years
          > on the ORTHODOX ListServ list hosted at Indiana University. If you
          > desire a more controlled "discussion" then you will find such an
          > alternative venue was already created a few years ago: orthodox-
          rocor.
          > Also, for clergy, an alternative to the rocaclergy list was
          created
          > at about the same time by the authority of ROCOR External Affairs
          > under Fr Joachim Paar, shortly before he joined the Moscow
          > Patriarchate. It is appropriately called rocor-clergy.
          >
          >
          > LIST GUIDELINES (Periodic re-posting)
          >
          > ===============================
          >
          > Welcome to the ORTHODOX-SYNOD group
          >
          > This Yahoo Group is a continuation of
          > the Orthodox_Synod mailing list spun
          > off as a sub-list of ORTHODOX@...
          > beginning in the early '90s.
          >
          > The moderator continues to be priest
          > Mark Gilstrap (www.stjamesok.org)
          >
          > I hope you will find the Synod list
          > informative and enjoyable. Please be
          > assured that you are welcome to
          > participate to whatever degree you wish,
          > or to simply read, if you prefer.
          >
          > Please make sure your real name appears
          > on your subscription. Aliases are not
          > allowed, nor are organizational names
          > allowed w/o a specific responsible human
          > being listed. If you feel strongly that
          > using your real name is detrimental for
          > some reason, please contact me privately
          > and confidentially, to explain.
          >
          > The following are some list guidelines
          > adapted from those found at the Cincinnati
          > Linux Users Group (by Athanasius Thompson
          > who hosted this list at geckonet in 1997)
          >
          > -------------
          >
          > Keep messages on-topic. This is a group
          > centered on issues of interest and benefit
          > to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
          > aka "the Synod"
          >
          > This list started fifteen years ago as the first
          > sub-list of ORTHODOX@..., and
          > as such has similar guidelines -- and also an
          > above average diversity of participants.
          >
          > Orthodox-Synod, with about 850 members
          > is one of the largest Orthodox lists on the
          > internet. Please use your access
          > responsibly.
          >
          > Orthodox-Synod is not a bulletin board
          > for posting items for as many people as
          > possible to see.
          >
          > Your purpose in contributing should be to
          > seek information and explanations etc..
          > or to inform, enrich or edify others, or
          > to seek and build orthodox community and
          > mutual understanding, connect the isolated,
          > support the struggles of others, reflect
          > the love of Christ, support His Church and
          > promote the centrality of the Life in Christ,
          > not to put something (esp. oneself) on
          > display.
          >
          > Consider whether your message is really
          > worth sending to hundreds of people. If
          > it is, don't hesitate.
          >
          > Do not send or attach entire documents to
          > the list. Send a URL (web address) where
          > interested readers can find it. Or offer
          > to send it to those who request it.
          >
          > See http://www.makeashorterlink.com/ for
          > help reducing the size of long links
          >
          > Remove most of the words quoted from messages
          > to which you reply. Delete all but the most
          > relevant text which is necessary to establish
          > the context for your reply. Keeping an entire
          > thread intact in every message is discouraged.
          > History is instead maintained in the archives
          > by Subject title (so make sure it is relevant)
          > and by date. Top posting is not discouraged
          > since it is more efficient when the entire
          > thread history is not required.
          >
          > Don't send "me too" messages. One-line replies
          > of agreement are wasteful. But feel free to
          > respond if you have more to say than simple
          > agreement (or disagreement - i.e. zingers).
          >
          > General rule of thumb:
          >
          > **** Do not quote more lines of a message
          > **** than you have yourself written.
          >
          > If you didn't write it, haven't contributed
          > anything to a posting's composition, haven't
          > made clear its relevance or defined the
          > context (or have violated any other guideline),
          > ask yourself why you are thinking of sending it.
          >
          > Post to the LIST (to all members), not to an
          > individual. Personal mail should be private
          > mail.
          >
          > Proclamations to the LIST about an individual
          > are not allowed.
          >
          > Speak to the truth of the facts, quality of
          > the premises, and logic of the conclusions
          > of the other participants, not to their person
          > (ad hominem). If you put another person's
          > name in the subject line, you have already
          > crossed the line.
          >
          > If you must correct factual errors on the
          > list, be polite and correct just the facts.
          > Don't attack the author - be careful about
          > uses of "you" and "your" in such replies,
          > since they can make the response appear to
          > be personal.
          >
          > "Praise in public; criticize in private."
          > Some disagreements are inevitable but take
          > flames off-line from the list.
          >
          > If membership to this list constitutes the
          > basis for private harassment (such as a
          > service provider would consider abuse, not
          > just negative feedback) send the evidence
          > to owner-orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com and
          > the abusive member will be contacted to
          > provide an acceptable explanation/rebuttal
          > in lieu of removal.
          >
          > To stop undesired private feedback to your
          > public postings, inform the sender that you
          > do not wish to correspond privately (tell
          > them to stop). If it continues it will be
          > considered to meet the definition of abuse
          > above and the offending member will be
          > removed.
          >
          > Do not post private email correspondence
          > without the permission of the author of
          > the email. Private email is just that --
          > private.
          >
          > Not only does this list prohibit non-consensual
          > posting of private mail, it also prohibits the
          > consensual posting of private mail as a means
          > for a non-member to participate at arms-length
          > through others. Such "proxy posting" has been
          > the source of many woes.
          >
          > "Proxy Posting" is defined as the remote
          > participation on a list (by non-member,
          > or member) through the posting privilege
          > of a third party who is a member of the
          > list. This activity is not allowed.
          >
          > Proxy posting can allow avoidance of personal
          > responsibility for what one says. In this
          > hair-trigger environment we want people to
          > be more, not less, responsible. Religious
          > discussions are particularly prone to abuse
          > in this realm.
          >
          > Think twice before cross-posting messages to
          > the Synod list and other forums. Have you ever
          > wondered about postings that seem to be coming
          > out of left field without context or history?
          > This is probably a cross-posting from elsewhere.
          > If you want to introduce to this list a topic
          > being discussed elsewhere, start a new thread.
          >
          > Keep your e-mail signature short - 5 lines or
          > fewer. This includes the -- separator line,
          > allowing for up to four lines of content.
          >
          > Dense text is especially hard to read on a
          > monitor. Remember the printed medium guide:
          >
          > "White space increases readership"
          >
          > Do not BCC anything to the lists - many people
          > have mail filters which sort messages into a
          > separate mailbox, based on the address on the
          > message. Failure to put the list address in
          > the message headers will mess up the mail filing
          > for a lot of people.
          >
          > Members of the Orthodox-Synod list agree to
          > abide by the above guidelines. The list owner
          > reserves the right to restrict access to anyone
          > from the email list for
          >
          > 1.Repeated off-topic postings.
          > 2.Repeated personal attacks.
          > 3.Repeated disruptive behavior
          >
        • interestedplus
          Dear Fr Mark, Thank you for your clarification and your work in tirelessly running this list. I ve learned a lot from taking part. Thank you also for your
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 23, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Fr Mark,

            Thank you for your clarification and your work in tirelessly running
            this list. I've learned a lot from taking part. Thank you also for
            your referral to other lists where those who desire a
            more "homogenous" readership can turn to meet their needs.

            I believe you are right and there is a dichotomy that has turned
            into a "clear differentiation between those who desire union with
            Moscow in
            > May '07, and those who remain cautious and even fearful of such".
            The clear positive that has come out of reading various views is the
            actual passion most of us feel for the Church. Many people are still
            passionate about where ROCOR is heading - and this is a GOOD thing.
            It means we care.

            In criticising the list, Fr Victor says that:

            "It would be good if this list could play a a positive role which
            will benefit all. If not, then perhaps it is time for this list to
            end"

            I'd like to respond, that by giving a forum open to differences of
            opinion on THE most important issue facing ROCOR, the list is of
            great benefit.

            Fr Victor also states "Those who wish to attack the Russian Church
            Abroad could do so on a number of other lists that already exist."

            I for one do not wish to and am not attacking the Church I love and
            intend to stay in, I am questioning the change in direction that
            most of our bishops have taken in the last few years. I'd rather
            seek discussion about this from other members of ROCOR, and not take
            it "out of the family" if I can.

            Fr Victor also states "Russian Church Abroad can be free from the
            attacks of schismatics and others who stubbornly place their own
            opinions above the conciliar decisions of the Church."

            With due respect to Fr Victor, I'm not basing my full and passionate
            opposition to the CURRENT unia with the MP on ANYTHING other than
            the conciliar decisions of the Russian Church prior to the
            revolution, and on the conciliar decisions of ROCOR until the very
            recent past. The decisions of some of our bishops and the running
            and interpretation of the ROCOR administration of the conciliar
            decision of the 4th Sobor is what worries me tremedously, because it
            is at odds with the previous position held for decades. And this has
            been done without any adequate logical tackling/explanation of the
            main issues!

            Many who are of the same position as myself, hold that the current
            course is not one of concensus, but of obvious attempted division.
            Our main passion is to avoid falling into apostacy, away from
            Christ's Church. No amount of "rejoicing" over "exciting
            opportunities" that will open up for us by merging with the current
            MP leadership, can console Christians if they believe that this
            temporary joy will put us outside Christ's Church. And we betray
            true Orthodox brothers and sisters in Russia, by weakening the
            opposition to the apostacy of Ecumenical participation etc of the MP
            heirarchy. Its feels as safe as a happy dance of the blind on the
            edge of a deadly ravine.

            The main enegy for Unia seems (to me after reading the opinions of
            those passionately for it) a desire for a "joyous reunion", easing
            of the difficulties of being so alone and small in the world, and
            joining forces to "help Russia" and not miss the boat of getting in
            on the "happenin' stuff". But the point that there are some
            believers with 10 times our faith in Russia is NOT the point. The
            point is ROCOR fulfilling its spiritual mission, and being the
            maximal force for good to turn the MP direction from apostacy back
            to true Orthodoxy. And never, ever betray Christ by sergianist
            compromise with the powers of the world, like the MP leadership has
            done.

            So my sincere apologies to those who did not want to read the above.

            One "who remains cautious and even fearful" of betraying Christ and
            His Church +++++++++

            alexandra



            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Rev Fr Mark Gilstrap"
            <fr.mark@...> wrote:
            >
            > Orthodox-synod is a privately moderated discussion group created
            > originally as a voluntary alternative venue for the public
            arguments
            > then taking place on the world stage of the ORTHODOX list. These
            > tensions were related to what has been referred to as the
            ROCOR/ROCA
            > dichotomy within out church. This dichotomy has played out now
            into a
            > clear differentiation between those who desire union with Moscow in
            > May '07, and those who remain cautious and even fearful of such.
            >
            > These Guidelines below have proven themselves here, and for 20
            years
            > on the ORTHODOX ListServ list hosted at Indiana University. If you
            > desire a more controlled "discussion" then you will find such an
            > alternative venue was already created a few years ago: orthodox-
            rocor.
            > Also, for clergy, an alternative to the rocaclergy list was
            created
            > at about the same time by the authority of ROCOR External Affairs
            > under Fr Joachim Paar, shortly before he joined the Moscow
            > Patriarchate. It is appropriately called rocor-clergy.
            >
            >
            >
          • interestedplus
            Dear Vassa, Both your posts were listed in this set. I ve had similar experiences when my posts have been delayed, or even not made it on for some reason, and
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 23, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Vassa,

              Both your posts were listed in this set. I've had similar
              experiences when my posts have been delayed, or even not made it on
              for some reason, and I too have had paranoid thoughts that Fr Mark
              might be playing favourites.

              I'm sure there are logistic exlanations for this, as overall the
              posts on this list cover both extremes of opinion. I for one am very
              happy to hear from the usually "silent" majority. I'm sure the
              feeling is shared by the moderator and other group members.

              In Christ our Lord,

              alexandra


              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Vassa Meister" <vtheb@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > Fr. Mark,
              > It seems to me that there are those on this list who do not follow
              > the guidelines outlined below, especially those about "not
              attacking
              > the authors" of various posts and other rules regarding civility.
              I
              > responded to Fr. Victor's proposal about refining the list but my
              > response was not published. Is it because I agreed with his
              opinion
              > and am for reunification? I have only written a message on this
              > list a couple of times and this is the second time my post was not
              > listed.
              > In Christ,
              > Vassa
              >
              >
              > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Rev Fr Mark Gilstrap"
              > <fr.mark@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Orthodox-synod is a privately moderated discussion group created
              > > originally as a voluntary alternative venue for the public
              > arguments
              > > then taking place on the world stage of the ORTHODOX list. These
              > > tensions were related to what has been referred to as the
              > ROCOR/ROCA
              > > dichotomy within out church. This dichotomy has played out now
              > into a
              > > clear differentiation between those who desire union with Moscow
              in
              > > May '07, and those who remain cautious and even fearful of
              such.
              > >
              > > These Guidelines below have proven themselves here, and for 20
              > years
              > > on the ORTHODOX ListServ list hosted at Indiana University. If
              you
              > > desire a more controlled "discussion" then you will find such an
              > > alternative venue was already created a few years ago: orthodox-
              > rocor.
              > > Also, for clergy, an alternative to the rocaclergy list was
              > created
              > > at about the same time by the authority of ROCOR External Affairs
              > > under Fr Joachim Paar, shortly before he joined the Moscow
              > > Patriarchate. It is appropriately called rocor-clergy.
              > >
              > >
              > > LIST GUIDELINES (Periodic re-posting)
              > >
              > > ===============================
              > >
              > > Welcome to the ORTHODOX-SYNOD group
              > >
              > > This Yahoo Group is a continuation of
              > > the Orthodox_Synod mailing list spun
              > > off as a sub-list of ORTHODOX@
              > > beginning in the early '90s.
              > >
              > > The moderator continues to be priest
              > > Mark Gilstrap (www.stjamesok.org)
              > >
              > > I hope you will find the Synod list
              > > informative and enjoyable. Please be
              > > assured that you are welcome to
              > > participate to whatever degree you wish,
              > > or to simply read, if you prefer.
              > >
              > > Please make sure your real name appears
              > > on your subscription. Aliases are not
              > > allowed, nor are organizational names
              > > allowed w/o a specific responsible human
              > > being listed. If you feel strongly that
              > > using your real name is detrimental for
              > > some reason, please contact me privately
              > > and confidentially, to explain.
              > >
              > > The following are some list guidelines
              > > adapted from those found at the Cincinnati
              > > Linux Users Group (by Athanasius Thompson
              > > who hosted this list at geckonet in 1997)
              > >
              > > -------------
              > >
              > > Keep messages on-topic. This is a group
              > > centered on issues of interest and benefit
              > > to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
              > > aka "the Synod"
              > >
              > > This list started fifteen years ago as the first
              > > sub-list of ORTHODOX@, and
              > > as such has similar guidelines -- and also an
              > > above average diversity of participants.
              > >
              > > Orthodox-Synod, with about 850 members
              > > is one of the largest Orthodox lists on the
              > > internet. Please use your access
              > > responsibly.
              > >
              > > Orthodox-Synod is not a bulletin board
              > > for posting items for as many people as
              > > possible to see.
              > >
              > > Your purpose in contributing should be to
              > > seek information and explanations etc..
              > > or to inform, enrich or edify others, or
              > > to seek and build orthodox community and
              > > mutual understanding, connect the isolated,
              > > support the struggles of others, reflect
              > > the love of Christ, support His Church and
              > > promote the centrality of the Life in Christ,
              > > not to put something (esp. oneself) on
              > > display.
              > >
              > > Consider whether your message is really
              > > worth sending to hundreds of people. If
              > > it is, don't hesitate.
              > >
              > > Do not send or attach entire documents to
              > > the list. Send a URL (web address) where
              > > interested readers can find it. Or offer
              > > to send it to those who request it.
              > >
              > > See http://www.makeashorterlink.com/ for
              > > help reducing the size of long links
              > >
              > > Remove most of the words quoted from messages
              > > to which you reply. Delete all but the most
              > > relevant text which is necessary to establish
              > > the context for your reply. Keeping an entire
              > > thread intact in every message is discouraged.
              > > History is instead maintained in the archives
              > > by Subject title (so make sure it is relevant)
              > > and by date. Top posting is not discouraged
              > > since it is more efficient when the entire
              > > thread history is not required.
              > >
              > > Don't send "me too" messages. One-line replies
              > > of agreement are wasteful. But feel free to
              > > respond if you have more to say than simple
              > > agreement (or disagreement - i.e. zingers).
              > >
              > > General rule of thumb:
              > >
              > > **** Do not quote more lines of a message
              > > **** than you have yourself written.
              > >
              > > If you didn't write it, haven't contributed
              > > anything to a posting's composition, haven't
              > > made clear its relevance or defined the
              > > context (or have violated any other guideline),
              > > ask yourself why you are thinking of sending it.
              > >
              > > Post to the LIST (to all members), not to an
              > > individual. Personal mail should be private
              > > mail.
              > >
              > > Proclamations to the LIST about an individual
              > > are not allowed.
              > >
              > > Speak to the truth of the facts, quality of
              > > the premises, and logic of the conclusions
              > > of the other participants, not to their person
              > > (ad hominem). If you put another person's
              > > name in the subject line, you have already
              > > crossed the line.
              > >
              > > If you must correct factual errors on the
              > > list, be polite and correct just the facts.
              > > Don't attack the author - be careful about
              > > uses of "you" and "your" in such replies,
              > > since they can make the response appear to
              > > be personal.
              > >
              > > "Praise in public; criticize in private."
              > > Some disagreements are inevitable but take
              > > flames off-line from the list.
              > >
              > > If membership to this list constitutes the
              > > basis for private harassment (such as a
              > > service provider would consider abuse, not
              > > just negative feedback) send the evidence
              > > to owner-orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com and
              > > the abusive member will be contacted to
              > > provide an acceptable explanation/rebuttal
              > > in lieu of removal.
              > >
              > > To stop undesired private feedback to your
              > > public postings, inform the sender that you
              > > do not wish to correspond privately (tell
              > > them to stop). If it continues it will be
              > > considered to meet the definition of abuse
              > > above and the offending member will be
              > > removed.
              > >
              > > Do not post private email correspondence
              > > without the permission of the author of
              > > the email. Private email is just that --
              > > private.
              > >
              > > Not only does this list prohibit non-consensual
              > > posting of private mail, it also prohibits the
              > > consensual posting of private mail as a means
              > > for a non-member to participate at arms-length
              > > through others. Such "proxy posting" has been
              > > the source of many woes.
              > >
              > > "Proxy Posting" is defined as the remote
              > > participation on a list (by non-member,
              > > or member) through the posting privilege
              > > of a third party who is a member of the
              > > list. This activity is not allowed.
              > >
              > > Proxy posting can allow avoidance of personal
              > > responsibility for what one says. In this
              > > hair-trigger environment we want people to
              > > be more, not less, responsible. Religious
              > > discussions are particularly prone to abuse
              > > in this realm.
              > >
              > > Think twice before cross-posting messages to
              > > the Synod list and other forums. Have you ever
              > > wondered about postings that seem to be coming
              > > out of left field without context or history?
              > > This is probably a cross-posting from elsewhere.
              > > If you want to introduce to this list a topic
              > > being discussed elsewhere, start a new thread.
              > >
              > > Keep your e-mail signature short - 5 lines or
              > > fewer. This includes the -- separator line,
              > > allowing for up to four lines of content.
              > >
              > > Dense text is especially hard to read on a
              > > monitor. Remember the printed medium guide:
              > >
              > > "White space increases readership"
              > >
              > > Do not BCC anything to the lists - many people
              > > have mail filters which sort messages into a
              > > separate mailbox, based on the address on the
              > > message. Failure to put the list address in
              > > the message headers will mess up the mail filing
              > > for a lot of people.
              > >
              > > Members of the Orthodox-Synod list agree to
              > > abide by the above guidelines. The list owner
              > > reserves the right to restrict access to anyone
              > > from the email list for
              > >
              > > 1.Repeated off-topic postings.
              > > 2.Repeated personal attacks.
              > > 3.Repeated disruptive behavior
              > >
              >
            • Fr. John R. Shaw
              ... JRS: The change in direction is in direct response to the *changed situation in Russia*. 25 years ago, nobody needed to quote articles or tell people to
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 23, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "interestedplus" <asvetlov@...> wrote:

                > I for one do not wish to and am not attacking the Church I love and
                > intend to stay in, I am questioning the change in direction that
                > most of our bishops have taken in the last few years. I'd rather
                > seek discussion about this from other members of ROCOR, and not take
                > it "out of the family" if I can.

                JRS: The "change in direction" is in direct response to the *changed situation in Russia*.

                25 years ago, nobody needed to quote articles or tell people to read Russophobic books.

                It was obvious that the Church in Russia was not free.

                In 1981, it was still against the law for anyone to give religious instruction to a person
                under 18, except perhaps in the home: and even then, children were often taken away
                from their parents for this.

                Today, instruction in the Orthodox faith is being offered in more and more Russian public
                schools.

                As Fr. Stefan noted, that would be forbidden in the United States, due to the "separation fo
                Church and State".

                The parish churches also teach religion, and there are more parish churches in Russia
                every day.

                There are many churches now attached to Russian hospitals, to military installations, and
                to prisons.

                In 1981, the only religious publishing allowed in Russia consisted of the Journal of the
                Moscow Patriarchate (in limited output, mostly distributed abroad), certain service books
                needed by the churches (again in a very limited output), and a Bible (mostly circulated
                abroad).

                Personal prayer books, mostly from Jordanville, had to be smuggled in from abroad.

                Today, there is a huge proliferation of Orthodox religious publishing in Russia: both new
                editions by the Patriarchate, and offset reprints of books from before the revolution.

                Before, Jordanville used to try to supply the needs of those few people in Russia who could
                obtain its publications; today, Jordanville is selling a selection of the countless Orthodox
                books printed in Russia.

                In 1981, the Kremlin churches were all museums, and had not seen worship services since
                the revolution. Today they are often used for worship.

                St. Basil's on Red Square is the most-photographed church in the world; for 70 years it
                was a museum, but today there is a Liturgy there every Sunday.

                The Kazan cathedral on Red Square, the Resurrection Gate with its chapel of the Iberian
                Icon, the great cathedral of Christ the Saviour were all vanished splendors of Moscow in
                1981, but today they have been rebuilt and are very much "functioning churches".

                There was no "Orthodox TV" in Russia 25 years ago, but today there is.

                In 1981, the Moscow Patriarchate could neither criticize the government, nor reply to
                attacks on it in the Soviet press.

                Today, the Church often protests against failures it sees in the government, criticizes
                decisions of the Duma, and replies to all manner of attacks in the media.

                One could go on about these changes, but there have also been crucial "policy changes"
                and church documents showing the same positions as ROCOR on ecumenism and
                "Sergianism".

                But today, people deny that all this has taken place.

                The bottom line is that those who do not want to believe anything is different in Russia,
                need to go there, and particularly, to meet and talk to those active in the Moscow
                Patriarchate.

                Until they do that, they probably will never believe.

                > The main enegy for Unia ...

                JRS: I think the use of that word is unfair, and certainly incorrect.

                "Unia" is a Russification of a Latin word, and it refers specifically (and only) to the joining
                of "Eastern Rite" churches to Rome.

                All other kinds of unions or reunions are called "soedinenie" or "voz-soedinenie" in
                Russian, and "unions", rather than "Unia", in English.

                In Christ
                Fr. John R. Shaw
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.