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Testing the spirits ruling over Moscow at Present

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  • malcolm robertson
    Dear Mr. Woodson, Thank you for your informed and cautious remarks about the sincerity of the MP and her relationship to the RF. It is warranted that we be
    Message 1 of 78 , Jul 8 6:56 PM
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      Dear Mr. Woodson,

      Thank you for your informed and cautious remarks about the sincerity of the MP and her relationship to the RF. It is warranted that we be leary in light of the abominable governmental reign of coercion and brainwashing that the oppressed Fatherland has had to endure for so many long years. I truly appreciate your freedom of speech with respect thereunto.

      I remember a former Russian/American citizen (now an American) appearing before the MacCarthey hearings responding when asked : "Are you a Commmunist?" "Yes, I am a Communist." "That's all I've ever known."

      Well, do not immigrants to America have to learn the language, our history and other such requirements before they can be granted citizenship? Of course. They are not Americans until they do. They are putting off the old and putting on the new. So too, the MP and the RF. This is a continuous process. The American government can be equally heavy handed in issues of State security just as the RF can and has been.

      Well as far as we know the present RF and the State MP (The Lutheran Church in Germany is a State/National Church supported by public tax) are quite different from former Soviet oppression and blood shed. The Churches are open and rebuilt. Orthodoxy - not the MP - is offered and proclaimed. Bible Societies (including the Russian Bible society) disseminated the Bible unhindered and ofttimes freely. Orthodoxy is a legally recognized entity - protected by the laws of the RF. Putin (a former Party member) is now a civil servant of the RF State.

      The MP involvement with the WCC must be missionary - otherwise the whole involvement is a joke. The Protestant churches that are members in the WCC advocate homosexual (same-sex unions), females in the clergy, deny the deity of Jesus and other cardinal tenets of the Faith. There are a fair number of Protestant denominations that refuse membership in the WCC for the same reasons as the ROCOR. While a civil authority MIGHT permit such things the MP - if faithful to Orthodoxy and Christ - never can if it wishes to remain true to Christ and the Gospel.
      The RF will recognize and tolerate different denominations within it's borders because Russian citizens will be it's members. This civil recognition and toleration has nothing to do with the branch theory. It is a State act - not ecclesiastical - and law. So too America and her many faiths. Orthodoxy must also subsist within this environment - as a witness, as a light.

      The sincerity of one's repentance will be reflected in one's actions. Stahlin may have had ulterior motives during WWII to enlist the Church's aid in the war effort and afterwards showed some leniency towards the Church thereafter, but the efforts of Patriarch Alexy II and President Putin evidence to me more of sincerity than duplicity.

      Ideologies wax wanton. Men are duped. Orthodoxy grants hope, life, and peace. Repentance and moral rectitude displays courage. The Soviet government had it's medals and Orthodox Russians served and were recognized. St. Dimitry's tank column, a nameless monk and others too.

      http://www.pravmir.com/article_107.html

      Present day Orthodox serve and are recognized as well. Can we deny this fact?

      http://directionstoorthodoxy.org/mod/news/view.php?article_id=7878

      Granted, no one of us is faultless - hence our need of the Redeemer Christ. But no matter how wicked Patriarch Alexy II or Vladimir Putin may or may not have been their secrets are no longer secret. Their lives exhibit what they are. Let each in turn decide. It is the others among them that we know nothing about - both within and outside the Church. Russia is a vast land with many peoples. America too is great. Are we responsible for all? Peter denied the Christ - but was he not told to go to Galilee too (Mt 26:75; Lk 22:62 & Mk 16:7).

      The doctrinal issues that face the ROCOR and the MP will have to be addressed in the Local Council. The sincerity of conviction and stability of ROCOR will be proven here. May the Lord have mercy. May the Lord be praised.

      With warm greetings,

      Malcolm






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    • antiquariu@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/25/2006 11:59:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, byakimov@csc.com.au writes: Thank you Michael! (VOVA) Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs definitely
      Message 78 of 78 , Jul 25 3:52 PM
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        In a message dated 7/25/2006 11:59:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        byakimov@... writes:

        Thank you Michael!

        (VOVA) Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs definitely defends everything SOVIET as
        per this interaction between the two of you, one could say that he is
        definitely an apologist for the Soviets to say the least. I on the other
        hand do not know any diaspora born White Russian who would agree with Vova
        at all. Infact many - who were born in the USSR would agree with you
        Michael & we are all awaiting for the SOVIET butchers such as Stalin & the
        atrocities - he & others committed against our suffering Russian people to
        be condemned by a future Tribunal.


        <<Big snip>>

        Lord have mercy. So here we have the super secret nameless Michael, who
        can't even answer an upbeat Matushka like M. Anne Lardas with a straight
        response, and the single most tendentious protodiakon in the ROCOR (assuming of
        course, you're still there, Father Basil, which should be a good assumption
        unless you're running with some of the other crackpots out there) telling us all
        about what one should think about those evil commies. . .
        Tell me, Father Basil, is it in priest school where they tell you not to be
        judgmental, or does one ever get exposed to it as a deacon? Judge not lest
        you be judged? Or does hopping with the wallabies make you some expert on
        grace? The tradition of shooting one's own citizens was practiced by various
        tsars as well, even by the sainted administration of the last one. As Stalin
        might have said, one is murder, a million are a statistic. It's still murder.
        It is 2006 now, and although there are a few of those folks still around,
        them Chekisty must be getting a bit long in the tooth, eh? Even Stalin has
        been gone over half a century! Tell me, Father Basil, do you ever feel just a
        bit foolish with that point of view, or do you truly not understand? Even if
        the sins of previous generations could be passed genetically, which I do not
        buy, there were plenty of thugs, rapists, murderers, pederasts, thieves and
        social misfits among the non-Red side of the war as well, hey, they even had
        them before the revolution at the royal court, and the saintly royal family
        was not just friends with them, they kept them on retainer and were related to
        them as well.

        I'm just a loud layperson, with no pretensions of being infused with
        omniscience like some on this list. I am not a shrill anti-Semite like Father
        Basil, and I always sign my name, unlike the coward Michael who snipes from the
        sidelines. But seriously folks, put forth your best argument, and then shut
        up! No one cares about Keston, Mr. Yakunin's 'documents,' the Patriarch's
        wife, the Jewish conspiracy, and the evil Freemasons except a handful of
        rabblerousers on the internet. No one cares about Serbia Irredenta for the same
        reason. I had actually tried to remain quiet for a bit, but it's just too much
        fun watching so man y grown adults make fools of themselves. Gentlemen!
        Select your targets! Lock and load, this is a target rich environment.
        Mirjana's ludicrous claims that Skanderbeg - Kastriotis was a Serb took the cake.
        It doesn't matter what some monk at Hilandar says, there is still history to
        contend with. The Castrioti are still quite a live dynasty, currently
        living in southern Italy, and they consider themselves to be Italo-Albanian, not
        Serb. So what if one or more is buried at Hilandar. I never realized that
        burial in a monastery converts you to that nationality, because most Orthodox
        folks I know consider undue nationalism to be sinful if not a heresy. And
        Skanderbeg, the national hero of Albania, was most certainly Orthodox. No, go
        ahead and bash Vova for being antiSerbian, since he points out that the king
        of Serbia sold out his Orthodox allies for monetary gain, or that he's
        anti-Russian, because, unlike well-known anti-Semite Father Basil Y., he doesn't
        immediately suspect that those 6 million evil Jews are plotting running the
        world together with the Freemasons. Heck, it has to be true, Sergej Nilus said
        so, and he wouldn't lie, would he? But I digress. Nilus was a malevolent
        crackpot, regardless of what kind of relationship he may or may not have had
        with S. John of Kronstadt. I do not view you all as malevolent at all, just
        extremely confused. I do have to remember, however, that there is apparently a
        fine line between fools and fools for Christ.


        In Christ, who must have incredible patience and a wonderful sense of humor,

        Vova





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