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Re: Meletios Metaksakis, Metropolitan, Archbishop, Pope and unfortunate Patriarc

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  • Julio Vázquez
    Dear List, This article was originally written by Priest (now Protopriest) Srboljub Miletic in Serbian, and as noted in pravoslavie.ru, it was translated into
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 5, 2006
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      Dear List,

      This article was originally written by Priest (now Protopriest)
      Srboljub Miletic in Serbian, and as noted in pravoslavie.ru, it was
      translated into Russian by Hierodeacon Ignatij (Shestakov). The
      original Serbian text, which has been available online for a few years
      now, may be accessed at the following address:

      <http://www.svetosavlje.org/biblioteka/Istorija/meletios.htm>

      I hope this is helpful.

      Julio Vazquez
      San Juan, Puerto Rico
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      ... JRS: I did not make any accusations. But I had thought of translating that article myself, because it was unusual for such an indictment of Meletios
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 6, 2006
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        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "myhrr101" <myhrr101@...> wrote:

        > ? this is getting silly..because it wasn't mentioned on the site the
        > piece was taken from you jump to the conclusion that he is
        > withholding information which he might or might not have because you
        > know it's on another site in its original russian? So what if it's
        > on the pravoslavie.ru site, did it orginate there?

        JRS: I did not make any accusations.

        But I had thought of translating that article myself, because it was unusual for such an
        indictment of Meletios Metaxakis' introduction of the new calendar to appear on a Moscow
        Patriarchate site.

        If you remove the article from its Patriarchal site, it loses part of its effect. It would not
        have been unusual at all to find it in "Orthodox Life" or in something published by the
        Greek OC's.

        > This article's inclusion on the MP site has not a lot to do with
        > needing or not needing to discredit the new calendarists, but
        > everything to do with discrediting the Ecumenical Patriarch.

        JRS: Discrediting a deposed Meletios Metaxakis does not per se discredit Pat. Bartholomew
        today. I am afraid Patriarch Bartholomew has done more of that himself, than any article
        about long ago events could achieve.

        Incidentally, "Myrrh" is only a nom de plume. I have no idea who you are. You could even
        be Patriarch Bartholomew...

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • michael nikitin
        Fr.John thinks it unusual for the MP to indict Meletios Metaxakis introduction of the new calendar, because the MP has new calendar parishes. Michael N ...
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 6, 2006
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          Fr.John thinks it unusual for the MP to indict Meletios Metaxakis' introduction of the new calendar, because the MP has new calendar parishes.

          Michael N


          "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote: --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "myhrr101" <myhrr101@...> wrote:

          > ? this is getting silly..because it wasn't mentioned on the site the
          > piece was taken from you jump to the conclusion that he is
          > withholding information which he might or might not have because you
          > know it's on another site in its original russian? So what if it's
          > on the pravoslavie.ru site, did it orginate there?

          JRS: I did not make any accusations.

          But I had thought of translating that article myself, because it was unusual for such an
          indictment of Meletios Metaxakis' introduction of the new calendar to appear on a Moscow
          Patriarchate site.

          If you remove the article from its Patriarchal site, it loses part of its effect. It would not
          have been unusual at all to find it in "Orthodox Life" or in something published by the
          Greek OC's.

          > This article's inclusion on the MP site has not a lot to do with
          > needing or not needing to discredit the new calendarists, but
          > everything to do with discrediting the Ecumenical Patriarch.

          JRS: Discrediting a deposed Meletios Metaxakis does not per se discredit Pat. Bartholomew
          today. I am afraid Patriarch Bartholomew has done more of that himself, than any article
          about long ago events could achieve.

          Incidentally, "Myrrh" is only a nom de plume. I have no idea who you are. You could even
          be Patriarch Bartholomew...

          In Christ
          Fr. John R. Shaw






          ---------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • myhrr101
          ... part we only hear such ... positions to support. The ... calendarists, which makes this ... It s a source of constant wonder to me that priests of ROCOR
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 6, 2006
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            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
            <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
            >

            > I had been thinking of translating it myself, because for the most
            part we only hear such
            > things from those who have their own axe to grind, their own
            positions to support. The
            > Moscow Patriarchate does not need to discredit the new
            calendarists, which makes this
            > article the more convincing.
            >
            > In Christ
            > Fr. John R. Shaw
            >


            It's a source of constant wonder to me that priests of ROCOR have
            done so little research on The Moscow Patriarchate, which name by
            the way is synonymous with the Russian Orthodox Church according to
            its own Statutes.

            The Moscow Patriarchate created by Stalin has every interest in
            publishing the metaxian history as it bolsters its own claim to
            Third Rome status on the world stage. Of course it can't push the
            uncanonical nature of Metaxakis' rise to power too far, but once it
            owns all Russian Orthodox worth bothering with it will be better
            able to convince the world to ignore its own beginnings. After all,
            everyone now accepts the MP as the Mother Church, don't they?

            Well, when you all commemorate your Great Lord Alexei II or his
            successor there will still be some wondering how so many left
            Christ's ecclesiology for the system He ruled against.


            Myrrh

            http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/3/15.aspx

            I.2. The Self-governing Churches, Exarchates, Dioceses, Synodal
            departments, Deaneries, Parishes, Monasteries, Brotherhoods,
            Sisterhoods, Theological educational institutions, Missions,
            Representations and Church representations (hereinafter
            called `canonical units'), which constitute the Russian Orthodox
            Church, canonically comprise the Moscow Patriarchate.

            `The Moscow Patriarchate' is another official name of the Russian
            Orthodox Church.


            IV.3. The name of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia shall be
            mentioned during the divine services in all churches of the Russian
            Orthodox Church with the following wording: `For our Great Lord and
            Father (name), His Holiness the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia'.
            `The Moscow Patriarchate' is another official name of the Russian
            Orthodox Church.
          • myhrr101
            ... you are. You could even ... I can assure you I am no one of any position at all, just yer bog standard member of Christ s Jurisdiction wandering through
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 6, 2006
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              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
              <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
              >




              >
              > Incidentally, "Myrrh" is only a nom de plume. I have no idea who
              you are. You could even
              > be Patriarch Bartholomew...
              >
              > In Christ
              > Fr. John R. Shaw
              >


              I can assure you I am no one of any position at all, just yer bog
              standard member of Christ's Jurisdiction wandering through the
              Orthodox communities in cyberspace, in these interesting times...

              Myrrh
            • Fr. John R. Shaw
              ... JRS: A source of constant wonder to me: that anonymous posters on the internet, who refuse to identify themselves but criticize others, expect to be taken
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 6, 2006
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                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "myhrr101" <myhrr101@...> wrote:

                > It's a source of constant wonder to me that priests of ROCOR have
                > done so little research on The Moscow Patriarchate...

                JRS: A source of constant wonder to me: that anonymous posters on the internet, who
                refuse to identify themselves but criticize others, expect to be taken seriously.

                In Christ
                Fr. John R. Shaw
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