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Re: looking for answers in all the wrong places

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  • vlutchenkov
    XPICTOC BOCKIPECE!!! Allow me to join this discussion. Father John: So you see, I don t feel that I need to read books, by American journalists or retired KGB
    Message 1 of 3 , May 3, 2006
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      XPICTOC BOCKIPECE!!!

      Allow me to join this discussion.

      Father John: So you see, I don't feel that I need to read books, by
      American journalists or retired KGB agents, about the Moscow
      Patriarchate.

      Vova: Father John I do not regarding these books or any of the
      articles posted here as being about the Moscow Patriarchate per say,
      but about an organization(s) and government that has targeted it (the
      Moscow Patriarchate) and some of its people to be used in an
      unorthodox way. These facts are well documented and actually are even
      supported in Patriarch Alexy's statements. Some members of the Church
      (both clergy and laity) appear to have had active participation in
      such activities. That fact alone provides sufficient reason for
      members of ROCOR (as well as other Churches) to be concerned. While
      I would not attempt to speak on anyone else's behalf, I once again
      wish to emphasize that it is not the majority of the laity nor the
      clergy of the Church of Russia that I have questions about. There
      has been sufficient evidence of corruption and non-clerical actions
      committed at the highest levels of the current power structure of the
      MP, (dare I say MP, Inc.?) Yet I have not seen in plain and simple
      words an acknowledgement and or statement (request for forgiveness)
      of personal responsibility for personal actions.

      Unfortunately a simple American saying comes to mind, something about
      a fish and the head. (I still try to be polite.)

      In Christ
      Vova


      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
      <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
      >
      > XPICTOC BOCKPECE!
      >
      > Peter Bushunow wrote:
      >
      > > I find it amazing that you believe, and are willing to post
      publicly,
      > > things "you have heard" about me, but refuse to believe or even
      consider
      > > published, documented sources who write about the Patriarch,
      Putin and
      > > their "group."
      >
      > JRS: I wrote that I'd heard that you live in Rochester, and are one
      of a group of people there with similar views.
      >
      > So far as I know, we have never even met.
      >
      > Until others gave me that information, I really had little idea
      whom I was corresponding with.
      >
      > I have, however, met and corresponded with Patriarch Alexy II, as
      well as a number of clergy and seminarians from or in Russia.
      >
      > I was able to visit Russia twice, during the Brezhnev era, attend
      church there, and experience the great spiritual intensity and fervor
      of the Orthodox Christians who lived under Soviet rule, but who made
      great sacrifices to keep the Faith.
      >
      > Most of our parishioners here are recent arrivals, and are
      of "Moscow Patriarchate" background.
      >
      > So you see, I don't feel that I need to read books, by American
      journalists or retired KGB agents, about the Moscow Patriarchate.
      >
      > Have you ever been to Russia yourself? Do you have friends in the
      Moscow Patriarchate, from whom you can get a first hand idea of what
      it is like?
      >
      > > If you count me and my family as "enemies of ROCOR" then you
      deserve the
      > > "friends" you are seeking.
      >
      > JRS: I never said you were an "enemy". But I do get the impression
      that you are quite firmly committed to certain misconceptions.
      >
      > > I pray that by voicing my questions and objections to this
      proposed
      > > union I can come to understand, and try to have you and
      other "leaders"
      > > of our church understand that there are people who sincerely
      disagree
      > > with you.
      >
      > JRS: But why do you put "leaders" in quotation marks? I'm a ROCOR
      parish priest, continuously in good standing since I was ordained
      more than 30 years ago.
      >
      > I never doubted that there were people who "sincerely disagreed".
      How could I, when we hear from them every day?
      >
      > It is nevertheless possible to be sincere, but misled.
      >
      > And I have tried my best to give simple, clear and honest answers.
      >
      > If you really want to understand, you have to listen to answers,
      and not just demand them.
      >
      > In Christ
      > Fr. John R. Shaw
      > --
      > CoreComm Webmail.
      > http://home.core.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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