Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: looking for answers in all the wrong places

Expand Messages
  • Bushunow, Peter
    Father John Writes ... Bushunow and members of his family. ... accusations, and insist that whatever I, or other clergy, answer them, are non-answers . ...
    Message 1 of 3 , May 3, 2006
      Father John Writes
      >Message 8
      > From: "Fr. John R. Shaw" vrevjrs@...
      > Date: Tue May 2, 2006 4:39pm(PDT)
      >Subject: Re: Still looking for answers

      >XPICTOC BOCKPECE!!!

      > posted
      > here by Mr. Bushunow...

      >JRS: I have engaged in some rather lengthy e-mail exchanges with Mr.
      Bushunow and members of his family.

      >I tried to answer them point by point, but they simply repeat the same
      accusations, and insist that whatever I, or other >>clergy, answer them,
      are "non-answers".

      >That sort of exchange can go on ad infinitum (do bezkonechnosti), and
      lead to nothing except wasted time and efforts.

      >However, I am told that the Bushunows are part of a group in Rochester
      NY, that refuse to accept any answers, or to >>>>>>believe >that
      anything has changed in Russia.

      >After a while, even I give up.

      >In Christ
      >Fr. John R. Shaw

      Father John,
      I find it amazing that you believe, and are willing to post publicly,
      things "you have heard" about me, but refuse to believe or even consider
      published, documented sources who write about the Patriarch, Putin and
      their "group."

      I pray that my main qualifications in the Orthodox church are those of
      the man spoken of in Luke 18:13. But to set the record straight, I grew
      up in the Russian Orthodox church, am blessed to serve as a reader, and
      have been blessed that my unworthy hands have participated in the
      building of the church of St. John Crysostom in St. Louis MO, and the
      Protection of the Mother of God in Rochester NY. I do not try to justify
      myself otherwise, God will judge.

      If you count me and my family as "enemies of ROCOR" then you deserve the
      "friends" you are seeking.

      I pray that by voicing my questions and objections to this proposed
      union I can come to understand, and try to have you and other "leaders"
      of our church understand that there are people who sincerely disagree
      with you. If we lost sheep, it is your duty to help lead us back to the
      flock, even "ad infinitum (do bezkonechnosti)". Reread Matthew 18:6
      </passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&verse=6&version=9&context=verse>
      "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it
      were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and
      that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
      I pray that this does not apply to you and to our hierarchs.
      I pray that the Lord give you the strength not to give up in the quest
      for truth, and return to the Faith.
      Peter




      **********************************************************************
      This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
      intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
      are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system.

      This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for
      the presence of computer viruses.

      Thank You,
      Viahealth
      **********************************************************************


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      XPICTOC BOCKPECE! ... JRS: I wrote that I d heard that you live in Rochester, and are one of a group of people there with similar views. So far as I know, we
      Message 2 of 3 , May 3, 2006
        XPICTOC BOCKPECE!

        Peter Bushunow wrote:

        > I find it amazing that you believe, and are willing to post publicly,
        > things "you have heard" about me, but refuse to believe or even consider
        > published, documented sources who write about the Patriarch, Putin and
        > their "group."

        JRS: I wrote that I'd heard that you live in Rochester, and are one of a group of people there with similar views.

        So far as I know, we have never even met.

        Until others gave me that information, I really had little idea whom I was corresponding with.

        I have, however, met and corresponded with Patriarch Alexy II, as well as a number of clergy and seminarians from or in Russia.

        I was able to visit Russia twice, during the Brezhnev era, attend church there, and experience the great spiritual intensity and fervor of the Orthodox Christians who lived under Soviet rule, but who made great sacrifices to keep the Faith.

        Most of our parishioners here are recent arrivals, and are of "Moscow Patriarchate" background.

        So you see, I don't feel that I need to read books, by American journalists or retired KGB agents, about the Moscow Patriarchate.

        Have you ever been to Russia yourself? Do you have friends in the Moscow Patriarchate, from whom you can get a first hand idea of what it is like?

        > If you count me and my family as "enemies of ROCOR" then you deserve the
        > "friends" you are seeking.

        JRS: I never said you were an "enemy". But I do get the impression that you are quite firmly committed to certain misconceptions.

        > I pray that by voicing my questions and objections to this proposed
        > union I can come to understand, and try to have you and other "leaders"
        > of our church understand that there are people who sincerely disagree
        > with you.

        JRS: But why do you put "leaders" in quotation marks? I'm a ROCOR parish priest, continuously in good standing since I was ordained more than 30 years ago.

        I never doubted that there were people who "sincerely disagreed". How could I, when we hear from them every day?

        It is nevertheless possible to be sincere, but misled.

        And I have tried my best to give simple, clear and honest answers.

        If you really want to understand, you have to listen to answers, and not just demand them.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
        --
        CoreComm Webmail.
        http://home.core.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • vlutchenkov
        XPICTOC BOCKIPECE!!! Allow me to join this discussion. Father John: So you see, I don t feel that I need to read books, by American journalists or retired KGB
        Message 3 of 3 , May 3, 2006
          XPICTOC BOCKIPECE!!!

          Allow me to join this discussion.

          Father John: So you see, I don't feel that I need to read books, by
          American journalists or retired KGB agents, about the Moscow
          Patriarchate.

          Vova: Father John I do not regarding these books or any of the
          articles posted here as being about the Moscow Patriarchate per say,
          but about an organization(s) and government that has targeted it (the
          Moscow Patriarchate) and some of its people to be used in an
          unorthodox way. These facts are well documented and actually are even
          supported in Patriarch Alexy's statements. Some members of the Church
          (both clergy and laity) appear to have had active participation in
          such activities. That fact alone provides sufficient reason for
          members of ROCOR (as well as other Churches) to be concerned. While
          I would not attempt to speak on anyone else's behalf, I once again
          wish to emphasize that it is not the majority of the laity nor the
          clergy of the Church of Russia that I have questions about. There
          has been sufficient evidence of corruption and non-clerical actions
          committed at the highest levels of the current power structure of the
          MP, (dare I say MP, Inc.?) Yet I have not seen in plain and simple
          words an acknowledgement and or statement (request for forgiveness)
          of personal responsibility for personal actions.

          Unfortunately a simple American saying comes to mind, something about
          a fish and the head. (I still try to be polite.)

          In Christ
          Vova


          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
          <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
          >
          > XPICTOC BOCKPECE!
          >
          > Peter Bushunow wrote:
          >
          > > I find it amazing that you believe, and are willing to post
          publicly,
          > > things "you have heard" about me, but refuse to believe or even
          consider
          > > published, documented sources who write about the Patriarch,
          Putin and
          > > their "group."
          >
          > JRS: I wrote that I'd heard that you live in Rochester, and are one
          of a group of people there with similar views.
          >
          > So far as I know, we have never even met.
          >
          > Until others gave me that information, I really had little idea
          whom I was corresponding with.
          >
          > I have, however, met and corresponded with Patriarch Alexy II, as
          well as a number of clergy and seminarians from or in Russia.
          >
          > I was able to visit Russia twice, during the Brezhnev era, attend
          church there, and experience the great spiritual intensity and fervor
          of the Orthodox Christians who lived under Soviet rule, but who made
          great sacrifices to keep the Faith.
          >
          > Most of our parishioners here are recent arrivals, and are
          of "Moscow Patriarchate" background.
          >
          > So you see, I don't feel that I need to read books, by American
          journalists or retired KGB agents, about the Moscow Patriarchate.
          >
          > Have you ever been to Russia yourself? Do you have friends in the
          Moscow Patriarchate, from whom you can get a first hand idea of what
          it is like?
          >
          > > If you count me and my family as "enemies of ROCOR" then you
          deserve the
          > > "friends" you are seeking.
          >
          > JRS: I never said you were an "enemy". But I do get the impression
          that you are quite firmly committed to certain misconceptions.
          >
          > > I pray that by voicing my questions and objections to this
          proposed
          > > union I can come to understand, and try to have you and
          other "leaders"
          > > of our church understand that there are people who sincerely
          disagree
          > > with you.
          >
          > JRS: But why do you put "leaders" in quotation marks? I'm a ROCOR
          parish priest, continuously in good standing since I was ordained
          more than 30 years ago.
          >
          > I never doubted that there were people who "sincerely disagreed".
          How could I, when we hear from them every day?
          >
          > It is nevertheless possible to be sincere, but misled.
          >
          > And I have tried my best to give simple, clear and honest answers.
          >
          > If you really want to understand, you have to listen to answers,
          and not just demand them.
          >
          > In Christ
          > Fr. John R. Shaw
          > --
          > CoreComm Webmail.
          > http://home.core.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.