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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for Regicide

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  • Vladimir Kozyreff
    Dear Father Alexander, Why has the ROCOR not glorified the martyrs that the MP did glorify? Why did the MP not yet glorify Met Joseph of Petrograd? In Christ,
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 6, 2006
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      Dear Father Alexander,

      Why has the ROCOR not glorified the martyrs that the MP did glorify?

      Why did the MP not yet glorify Met Joseph of Petrograd?

      In Christ,

      Vladimir Kozyreff


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:14 PM
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for
      Regicide


      >
      >>Who knows why the number of the Holy New Martyrs of
      >>Russia glorified by MP is limited?
      >>
      >> A de Bonnefoi
      >
      >
      > Actually, the number of Holy New Martyrs of Russia glorified by the
      > MP (in official lists, by name) is about 10 times larger than the
      > number glorified by the Church Abroad. The MP has glorified about
      > 20,000 by name, while the Church Abroad has glorified about 2,000.
      >
      > So what is your point, except that it is based on a false premise?
      >
      > With love in Christ,
      >
      > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Vladimir Kozyreff
      Dear Father Alexander, Why did the MP not glorify Met Sergius? In Christ, Vladimir Kozyreff ... From: Fr. Alexander Lebedeff To:
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 6, 2006
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        Dear Father Alexander,

        Why did the MP not glorify Met Sergius?

        In Christ,

        Vladimir Kozyreff

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...>
        To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:14 PM
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for
        Regicide


        >
        >>Who knows why the number of the Holy New Martyrs of
        >>Russia glorified by MP is limited?
        >>
        >> A de Bonnefoi
        >
        >
        > Actually, the number of Holy New Martyrs of Russia glorified by the
        > MP (in official lists, by name) is about 10 times larger than the
        > number glorified by the Church Abroad. The MP has glorified about
        > 20,000 by name, while the Church Abroad has glorified about 2,000.
        >
        > So what is your point, except that it is based on a false premise?
        >
        > With love in Christ,
        >
        > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Vladimir Kozyreff
        Dear father Alexander, The very nature of sergianism is to have the bishops appointed by the devil. Therefore, renouncing sergianism must be renouncing that
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 6, 2006
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          Dear father Alexander,



          The very nature of sergianism is to have the bishops appointed by the devil.
          Therefore, renouncing sergianism must be renouncing that appointment.



          The nature of iconoclasms is to claim that icons are not orthodox. If you
          renounce iconoclasm and repent from it, that repentance is expressed in the
          fact that you venerate the icons from the day of your repentance on.



          Contempt and cynicism would be to say "I renounce iconoclasm" and continue
          destroying icons. In the same way, contempt is saying: "I know the devil has
          appointed me, I renounce sergianism but I it must be understood that I must
          be considered as appointed by God from now on, and that my appointment by
          the devil may never be mentioned again, because I apologised".



          We all deny Christ seven times seventy times a day. Any sin however big can
          be forgiven by confession. The good criminal, St Peter, St Paul are
          examples. These saints will meet us in the Kingdom we if we are saved.



          You try to depict me as somebody who denies the pardon of the sins. This is
          the "Donatist" analogy, which was already tried in this discussion.



          The position of St Augustine differed from that of the Donatists not in the
          fact that he would readmit the lapsi while the Donatists would not. Not
          repenting lapsi were not even considered. The difference was that St
          Augusrine did readmit repenting lapsi while the Donatists would not readmit
          even repenting lapsi. The lapsi had to produce a document of a respected
          faithful certifying that their repentance was sincere. We have the texts of
          those certificates.



          In addition, the iconoclast bishops asked to be readmitted by the Church. In
          the case of the sergianists, they admit themselves back in the "Church".
          They are just "samozvannye" (self appointing and self pardoning, impostors).



          Thank you for giving me this opportunity to show the absurdity of their
          defence.



          You should understand, dear Father Alexander, that you greatest contradictor
          are yourself and the ROCOR, whom you rescinded. Please read again
          "Sergianism, my perspective", by Father Alexander Lebedeff.



          In Christ,



          Vladimir Kozyreff





          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...>
          To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:02 PM
          Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for
          Regicide


          >
          > Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >>Sergianism is what appointed them in office. Renouncing sergianism implies
          >>renouncing its appointments. Staying in an office that you got from the
          >>devil is not renouncing the devil. Apologising and staying in office is
          >>just
          >>contempt and cynicism.
          >
          >
          > I believe that Vladimir will agree that iconoclasm was a heresy
          > (defined by a Council, by the way).
          >
          > All of the iconoclast bishops received their appointments from
          > heretics, and were themselves heretics. So -- iconoclasm is what
          > appointed them to office.
          >
          > Yet, when they repented, not one of them was removed from office.
          >
          > Every one of the former iconoclast bishops stayed in the office they
          > had been appointed to by heretics, and this was accepted by the
          > entire Orthodox Church.
          >
          > Does this imply contempt and cynicism?
          >
          > Also, I doubt that Vladimir would argue that the Apostle Peter denied
          > Christ three times (truly a action brought about by the devil).
          >
          > Yet he "stayed in his office" of Apostle after repentance, didn't he?
          >
          > With love in Christ,
          >
          > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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