Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for Regicide
- Dear Dimitra,
Sergianism is what appointed them in office. Renouncing sergianism implies
renouncing its appointments. Staying in an office that you got from the
devil is not renouncing the devil. Apologising and staying in office is just
contempt and cynicism.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DDD" <dimitradd@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for
Subdeacon Larry is right--your "waiting" is not earnest at all--their
glorification of the Holy New Martyrs of Russia, whose feast we celebrate
this Sunday, was proof enough of their repentance of "sergianism"--as under
the communists--with a "sergianist" policy--there were not supposed to *be*
larry most wrote:
GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
Even if it slapped you across the face, you would
still be waiting for it and if not for that something
else. I guess you have little use for the Moscow
Love in Christ,
Sub-deacon Lawrence Most
--- michael nikitin <nikitinmike@...> wrote:
> We are now earnestly waiting to read from Patr.
> Alexey II the repentance for Sergianism, repentance
> for being in Ecumenism and that the MP is leaving
> this WCC organization.
> Michael N
> "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...>
> Earlier, I posted a quotation from an official
> Proclamation on the
> occasion of the 75th Anniversary of the murder of
> the Tsar-Martyr
> Nicholas and the Royal Family, which included the
> following words of
> >"The sin of the murder of the Tsar, which took
> place in the face of
> >the indifference of the citizens of Russia, has not
> been repented of
> >by our people. Being a crime against both the law
> of God and man,
> >this sin lies as a most heavy burden on the soul of
> the people, on
> >its moral self-understanding."
> >"And so today, we, on behalf of the whole Church,
> on behalf of all of
> >its children--both those who have reposed and those
> who are now
> >living-- we offer before God and the people
> repentance for this sin.
> >Forgive us, O Lord!"
> I failed to mention that this Proclamation was
> issued and signed by
> Patriarch Alexei II of Moscow and All Russia and by
> the Holy Synod of
> the Russian Orthodox Church.
> And there are still those who stubbornly repeat that
> the Patriarch
> and the hierarchy of Moscow Patriarchate have never
> repented before
> God and the Russian people!
> The Epistle, dated July 16, 1993, also contains the
> following words:
> "Now, by renouncing the sins of the past, we must
> understand that
> good goals must be achieved through worthy means."
> Also note the words of this Epistle:
> "Repentance of the sin that was done by our
> ancestors must become for
> us yet one more sign of unity. Let the current
> sorrowful date unite
> us in prayer with the Russian Orthodox Church
> Outside of Russia, the
> rebirth of spiritual communion with which, in
> faithfulness to the
> spirit of Christ, we sincerely strive for."
> And this was in 1993!
> How many members of this list have heard of this
> Epistle prior to today?
> Why was it not published and distributed more widely
> Why is it not quoted when the question of repentance
> of the Patriarch
> or the hierarchs of the Moscow Patriarchate before
> God and the Russian people is raised?
> With love in Christ,
> Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been
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- GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
I said no such thing. What I said is that we should
RECONCILE with the MP. I don't think that they are
going to storm over here and take over our churches
and throw out our clergy, and make us do all sorts of
un-Orthodox. Come on, you will NEVER accept
recociliation with the MP because of what happened in
the past. I will let the HOLY SPIRIT do HIS work and
if it happens GREAT, if not, maybe later.
You have never told us what the MP should do to become
"good enough" for us to talk to.
Love in Christ,
Sub-deacon Lawrence Most
--- Vladimir Kozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
> Dear Lawrence,=== message truncated ===
> You said that we should join te MP because we must
> pardon. Now you say that
> we should not join the "RC"s because they teach
> heresy, even if we pardon
> Do you understand that you are illogical? The fact
> that we must pardon is
> not a reason to join a wrong "Church" or the MP.
> The reason to join the MP would be that it is
> orthodox, not that we pardon.
> The MP teaches that appointees of the KGB/
> CheKa/NKVD (the devil) may be
> considered as the appointees of God. Sergianism is
> dogmatising Church
> capture by the devil. It is teaching that God
> accepts te devil's appointees
> to be the successors of the apostles.
> This is not orthodox and is in contradiction with
> all canons, whether we
> "forgive" or not..
> In Christ,
> Vladimir Kozyreff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "larry most" <larrymost2002@...>
> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 12:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re:
> [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for
> > GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
> > Dear Vladimir,
> > We would not join the Pope of Rome or Arius
> > they have varient teachings. As far as I know the
> > teachings are the same as the rest of Orthodoxy.
> > Love in Christ,
> > Sub-deacon Lawrence Most
> > --- Vladimir Kozyreff
> > wrote:
> >> Dera Lawrence,
> >> We must forgive Arius. We must forgive the Pope
> >> Rome. This does not mean
> >> that we have to join them. We must forgive the
> >> assassin, but not join him in
> >> his crime. According to your reasoning, we might
> >> accept all of the mistakes
> >> and heresies against the Church because we pardon
> >> their authors.
> >> Distinction between the sin (which must be hated)
> >> and the sinner (who must
> >> be loved and helped to renounce his sin) is
> >> elemntary catechisis.
> >> Orthodoxy has always displayed a perfect
> >> rigor versus the "RCs"
> >> Frank barbarians confusion. Unfortunately, many
> >> orthodox converts lack that
> >> culture of spiritual discernement and are confuse
> >> about faithfulness to the
> >> truth (the essenc eof orthodxy) and
> >> (let us be consructive
> >> and forget about the truth out of love).
> >> In Christ,
> >> Vladimir Kozyreff
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "larry most" <larrymost2002@...>
> >> To: <email@example.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:42 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re:
> >> [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Repentance for
> >> Regicide
> >> > GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
> >> > Dear Dr. Bob,
> >> > Thank you for saying what I would have liked to
> >> > say,but didn't know how. My whole point is that
> >> > need to forgive and move on. Thanks again for a
> >> great
> >> > reply.
> >> > Love in Christ,
> >> > Sub-deacon Lawrence Most
> >> >
> >> > --- "Dr. Bob Holderer" <rholderer@...>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Vladimir,
> >> >>
> >> >> After reading your endless tirades for a year
> >> now, I
> >> >> think that a few
> >> >> comments are in order.
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. You are not the only one who lost
> >> >> under the Communists.
> >> >> Many of us can share stories as horrible as
> >> ones
> >> >> you relate.
> >> >> However, the difference between you and many
> >> us
> >> >> is that we have
> >> >> learned to go on with our lives and not to
> >> on
> >> >> the past. The
> >> >> Church was not responsible for these deaths;
> >> >> Communists were.
> >> >> Those people who killed my relatives are most
> >> likely
> >> >> dead now, and I
> >> >> leave the judgment of those people to God. He
> >> knows
> >> >> their motives
> >> >> much much better than I could have ever could
> >> ever
> >> >> guess, and I am
> >> >> going to put faith in God's judgment. Christ
> >> told
> >> >> us not to render
> >> >> evil for evil, and He told us not to go out
> >> >> revenge.
> >> >>
> >> >> 2. Those in Church leadership today were not
> >> around
> >> >> during those most
> >> >> violent of days. They are not to be held
> >> >> accountable for things they
> >> >> had no part of. If we are to follow your
> >> we
> >> >> all should be
> >> >> repenting of things that our distant relatives
> >> have
> >> >> done. I can't
> >> >> undo the past, but I can refuse to continue
> >> >> carnage. Character
> >> >> assassination is not the solution to old
> >> It
> >> >> does not solve
> >> >> anything except to keep the wounds open.
> >> >>
> >> >> 3. It has been painfully obvious that you
> >> the
> >> >> Church of Russia
> >> >> and everything that she stands for.
> >> you
> >> >> would not
> >> >> continuously rehearse all of the sins of the
> >> past.
> >> >> Lay this at the
> >> >> feet of Jesus, and move on!
> >> >>
> >> >> 4. The only solutions that you can come up to
> >> are
> >> >> intrinsically
> >> >> destructive in nature. You don't like
> >> >> Get rid of it.
> >> >> Life ain't that easy. Imagine that all of the
> >> >> bishops of the Russian
> >> >> Church did step down. Why stop with the
> >> >> Get rid of the
> >> >> priests as well. Why stop there? Let's get
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