Re: Apostolic Succession [and the Sobor of 2000]
- Dear Father John, bless.
Thank you for your comments about unworthy priests.
How do you reconcile them with the text below?
You say that the MP does not know before whom to repent. It should
simply ask forgiveness to the real pure Russian Orthodox Church. The
ROCOR was supposed to be that.
You say: "How do you know whether they repented?" There is no
repentance without reparation of the sin. We have seen none. We have
seen only denial. We have heard only confirmation that sergianism was
a "bold step" (smyeliy shag). They freely chose to be successors of
the persecutors, not of the persecuted.
You say that the present MP hierarchy is not responsible for Met
Sergius's declaration. Indeed, they are not, but they condone it
instead of condemning it, and this without being threatened by
anyone. As we have seen, their sin is greater than the sin of those
who collaborated under threat.
I mentioned the extermination of Jews because all agree that it was
an abomination, and nobody would dare say that Hitler's power came
from God. You say that the Nazi exterminated more Russians than Jews,
but the Soviet exterminated more Russians than the Nazi did, and this
with the blessing of the MP, under the pretext that their power came
from God. And you too say that Stalin's power came from God. You
suggest that the apostles teach not to resist Stalin.
Vlasov did not collaborate with the Nazi. As soon as he got his
weapons and equipment, he turned against the Nazi to liberate Prague.
Churchill said at the end of the war: "we have chosen the wrong pig".
"In the affair of laying waste the Church, in addition to his
betrayal, Metropolitan Sergius also uttered an onerous blasphemy
against the Holy Spirit, which according to the true word of Christ
will never be forgiven him, either in this life or in the next...
Having kneaded into one in the great and most-holy mystery of the
Eucharist, in opposition to the word of God, "the faithful with the
unfaithful" (2 Cor. 6, 14-18), the Holy Church and her enemies,
waging a war against her to the death, the Metropolitan, by this, his
blasphemy, violates the prayerful sense of the great mystery and
destroys its grace-endowing significance for the eternal salvation of
the souls of Orthodox believers.
Hence, the divine service also becomes not only devoid of grace on
account of the gracelessness of the worker of the sacred rite, but it
also becomes an abomination in the eyes of God, wherefore both the
one performing it and the one participating in it are subject to
(Holy New Martyr Bishop Viktor [Ostrovidov] of Glazov and Votkina).
--- In email@example.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
> Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:
> > You [JRS] write: "In fact, the statement of the 2000 Moscow Sobor
> > relations between the Church and State was generally praised inROCOR
> > and seen as a clear renunciation of Sergianism".naughty
> > When I was a child, my mother used to tell me, if I had been
> > and said: "I know that I have been bad", that my sin was twice asSergianism, what would you consider,
> > grave, because I knew it and did not repent.
> JRS: But how do you know who has repented, and who has not?
> If you will not accept a formal, "Sobor" renunciation of
> specifically, to be acceptable proof of "repentance"?(in some cases, long after
> And then, those who were born after the time of Patriarch Sergius
> his death) cannot be held "guilty" of his declaration, since theyhad no hand in it, and no
> control over it.(meaning "the Church of Russia,
> How can they "repent" of what they did not do?
> Besides that, *who* has to repent in the Moscow Patriarchate
> with tens of millions of members")?(which he did in 1991), or
> Can the Patriarch ask repentance in the name of the whole Church
> must every lay person, everyone who lights candles in a churchunder the MP, profess
> And if they did, would it be enough to satisfy you?
> > Imagine bishops having collaborated
> > with the Nazi to exterminate Jews and getting away with it by
> > saying that this was not their policy any longer.Some 20 million
> JRS: The Nazis exterminated more Russian Orthodox people than Jews.
> Russians are said to have lost their lives in W.W. II, as opposedto "6 million Jews" (the
> number may not have been as great as 6 million).still is a comparison that I
> So, although I realize that is not the point of your comparison, it
> would have preferred to avoid.the Nazis (or with the
> Be that as it may, ROCOR clergy and bishops did collaborate with
> German army, as they would have said), in the hope of liberatingRussia. There has never
> been any act of repentance: the matter simply was buried andforgotten for decades.
> > Would you praise
> > this as a renunciation to collaborate with crime? Imagine that
> > would add that nobody can mention this fact any longer. Imaginethat
> > they moreover would claim that this is consistent with theteaching
> > of the Church, and that Christians are thus expected to behave inbasic doctrinal teachings of the
> > that way. Would that not be heretical?
> JRS: No, I don't think so. "Heretical" implies a rejection of the
> Orthodox Church.be
> > Is collaborating with the Antichrist good or evil? Let your yes
> > yes and your no be no. All beyond that is from the evil one.what the questions are.
> JRS: My Yea is indeed Yea, and my Nay is Nay; but we disagree as to
> In Christ
> Fr. John R. Shaw