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Re:[orthodox-synod]Re: Glorifications by HOCNA [was:Canonization by HOCNA)

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  • michael nikitin
    St. Dimitry Rostovsky translated from Greek, Life of Saint in 12 books in Chet y Minei and the life of Blessed Augustine is not in it. Certainly his life is
    Message 1 of 60 , Sep 1, 2005
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      St. Dimitry Rostovsky translated from Greek, Life of Saint in 12 books in "Chet'y Minei" and the life of Blessed Augustine is not in it. Certainly his life is well known to people and if he was considered a saint at that time in the Greek or Russian Church his life would have been published in Greek Chery Minei when it was translated into Russian.

      Fr.John stated,
      "Metropolitan Philaret [Voznesensky] of New York is not a Saint."

      Fr.John seems to think the calendar makes one a Saint. If this is so, Holy Metr. Philaret is a Saint, because he is on the calendar of ROAC and HOCNA as Saint Metr. Philaret.
      And we know Holy Metr. Philaret's relics are incorrupt and miracles have occurred to people who pray for his intercession before God.

      Blessed Seraphim Rose was in the St.Herman calendar, when they were with us, as blessed Seraphim. Is he a Saint?
      I don't believe they taught this at Holy Trinity Seminary, although Fr.John did say they taught him that Origen was not a heretic, it was his disciples that wrote what is attributed to him. This goes against the teaching of the Ecumenical Council and is renovationism- a new teaching.

      Fr.John cannot find St. Augustine in a calendar, only blessed Augustine, he doesn't tell us this for some reason. I have never seen an icon of St. Augustine in ROCOR.

      When Archbishop Anthony of San Francisco was teaching Church Law in Australia, he explained that St. Basil the Blessed, is for Fools for Christ who are saints. Just calling someone Blessed, like Blessed Augustine, means the person was pious, but is not a Saint. Protodeacon Basil Yakimov might have been able to verify this, except he's forbidden to post on this list by his bishop Illarion for some reason.

      We know that St. Blessed Ksenia was called Blessed Ksenia before her glorification. After glorification it was St. Blessed Ksenia. Metr. Anastasy was given a title Blessed when he was still alive, certainly no one alive can be a saint, only saintly. There was some talk of giving Metr. Vitaly the title Blessed, but the bishops having dislike for him, overturned the idea.

      John Haluska left this list because he didn't get a straight honest answer. I understand his frustration.

      Michael N



      "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
      "Michael Nikitin" wrote:

      > Fr.John , you still didn't answer the question, how you know Holy Metr.Philaret is not a
      Saint?

      JRS: Yes, I did. Go back and read my reply.

      > I have never seen an icon of St.Augustine of Hippo at Holy Trinity Monastery or at any
      Church in ROCOR, but you say he's a Saint in ROCOR. He is not on ROCOR's calendar.

      JRS: Where do you get that? If you have this year's Jordanville calendar, which is checked and
      approved by Metropolitan Laurus before publication, St. Augustine is listed on his normal day
      of observance: June 15, OS.

      He was listed on June 15 in the 1960 calendar (the oldest one I have at hand) as well, and in
      all those in between.

      As for not seeing an icon of him, how many icons would one have to "see" at Jordanville, to
      cover all of the Saints in the calendar?

      > Not one of our bishops of the Russian Church before the revolution had Augustine as
      their patron Saint.

      JRS: Hieromartyr Avgustin, bishop of Kaluga, died at the hands of the Bolsheviks in 1937.

      > Does the seminary at Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville use the term canonize or glorify
      > when you were a seminarian?

      JRS: "Does" or "Did"?

      I was a seminarian from 1968 to graduation in 1971. At that time, everything at Jordanville
      was in Russian; but I think that even in Russian, there was sometimes talk in those days of
      "kanonizatsija", alongside of "proslavlenie".

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw





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    • vkozyreff
      Dear Gene, What you are doing is just making a statement. It contributes to nothing. Saying: to call it a church is a bit of overstatement is just a
      Message 60 of 60 , Sep 10, 2005
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        Dear Gene,

        What you are doing is just making a statement. It contributes to
        nothing.

        Saying: "to call it a church is a bit of overstatement" is just a
        declaration. You just express your position, which has been known for
        a while.

        Moreover, you use words like "disgraceful", "their own reasons". I
        have no own reasons in this matter, I can assure you, nor do all
        those who lost their church and their friends in my surrounding.

        If I were to do the same as you, I would just state "there is indeed
        such a thing as ROCOR (V)", and I would add a few derogatory details
        about compromises, reasons why treasons occur, etc.

        Of course, it would add nothing to the search of the truth. It would
        just add to hatred and irritation. It is so little in Jesus' style.

        In God,

        Vladimir Kozyreff

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@y...> wrote:
        > Come on Mikhael,
        >
        > there is no such thing as ROCOR(V)
        > there is retired Mp. Vitaly residing in Mansonville
        > there are several ROCOR old times rightly upset at his disgracefull
        treatment
        > plus a whole lot of assorted weirdos who hang out there for their
        own reasons that have nothing to with ROCOR
        > to call it a church is a bit of overstatement
        >
        > Gene T
        >
        >
        > michael nikitin <nikitinmike@y...> wrote:
        > So ROCOR(L) is in communion with the St.Herman of Alaska
        Brotherhood whom they defrocked. This is sad.
        >
        > I call ROCOR under Metr.Laurus ROCOR(L) and ROCOR under Metr.Vitaly
        ROCOR(V). One seems to hold to what we had under Holy Metr.Philaret
        while the other serves with those whom they defrocked. Will the real
        ROCOR please stand up?
        >
        > Shouldn't we un-defrock them...if we can? This is embarassing at
        the least and uncanonical.
        > One can only imagine with whom we'll concelebrate once we unite
        with MP.
        >
        > We're losing something. It's either grace or our minds...or both.
        >
        > Michael N
        >
        >
        > "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
        > Athanasios Jayne wrote:
        >
        > > The St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, in Platina,
        > > was received some time ago into the Serbian
        > > Patriarchate. Thus, we in ROCOR are in full
        > > Communion with them.
        >
        > JRS: (1) That still does not make it a "ROCOR calendar".
        >
        > (2) The Serbian Church has surely not added the name of Fr.
        Seraphim Rose to the calendar
        > of Saints.
        >
        > (3) While in ROCOR, the Platina brotherhood began issuing icons of
        St. John Maximovitch
        > when he had not been recognized yet as a Saint in ROCOR.
        >
        > (4) If, in fact, their calendar (which I haven't even seen) really
        does call Fr. Seraphim Rose a
        > Saint, such is only the private view of the publishers.
        >
        > In Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw
        >
        >
        >
        >
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