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Re: Re:[orthodox-synod]Re: Glorifications by HOCNA [was:Canonization by HOCNA)

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  • Philosoph
    I think that those who have found occasion to make pronouncements concerning Saint Augustine to the 775 people subscribed to this list, might do well to review
    Message 1 of 60 , Aug 31 11:28 PM
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      I think that those who have found occasion to make pronouncements concerning
      Saint Augustine to the 775 people subscribed to this list, might do well to
      review the collection of articles found at this link:

      http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/bless_aug.aspx

      there are a variety of articles from a number of sources:

      Orthodox Tradition, Archbishop Chrysostomos, Archbishop Mark(ROCOR), etc.

      of particular note is the following exerpt:
      "There are those who argue that Saint Augustine (†430) wrote a number of
      things inconsistent with the consensus of the Fathers, especially with
      regard to sin and human guilt before God and the nature of Grace. This is
      partly because distortions and overstatements of certain
      among his theological precepts by Medieval and Reformation thinkers have
      been unfairly attributed to the Saint himself. In fact, though, one
      would be hard-pressed to find in the writings of St. Augustine evidence of
      an intentional distortion of the Church’s teachings or signs of
      tenacious resistance to correction by his contemporaries. Indeed, Pope
      Vigilius [†555], in reconciling himself to the decisions of the Fifth
      Œcumenical Synod, invoked the memory, among "...our Fathers," of the
      "blessed Augustine" for his willingness to retract and correct various among
      his "writings" and "sayings" ("Decretal Letter," The Nicene and
      Post-Nicene Fathers, 2nd series, Vol. XIV). Rather, St. Augustine’s works
      are marked by profound personal piety, a spirit of contrition, and a
      relentless deference to the teaching authority of the Church: traits of
      spiritual enlightenment."

      While I am not one worthy to hold an opinion before so large a number of
      intelligent and spiritually minded people, I would say I was having a
      certain thought, derived from thoughts that arose at various words and
      sentiments I was hearing on this list.

      It is a good thing to be correct, but I think it is a much better thing to
      be capable of correction and progress.

      It seems to me that sometimes in our urge to label and measure things, to
      simplify that which is difficult for us to understand, we perhaps may deny
      the saints their humanity and lose sight of the essential virtue they
      possess. The saints were human and occasionally made mistakes, but they
      repented and strove to correct themselves. I think the virtue of the saint,
      that is to be emulated by us who are lacking in virtue, is their striving
      toward God and their making great efforts. This seems to me to be the
      essence of their sanctity. I does not seem to me that St Mark of Ephesus
      was called a saint because he made pronouncement X or Y; rather I think he
      is called a saint because he loved Christ and made great efforts in his
      strivings towards God.

      St Isidore of Peliseum once said: "The two grinding and the one taken differ
      only in disposition."

      You will forgive I hope my comments, if they are to the left or the right.

      your servant,

      Philosophos
      St Sophia
      Victoria BC
    • vkozyreff
      Dear Gene, What you are doing is just making a statement. It contributes to nothing. Saying: to call it a church is a bit of overstatement is just a
      Message 60 of 60 , Sep 10, 2005
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        Dear Gene,

        What you are doing is just making a statement. It contributes to
        nothing.

        Saying: "to call it a church is a bit of overstatement" is just a
        declaration. You just express your position, which has been known for
        a while.

        Moreover, you use words like "disgraceful", "their own reasons". I
        have no own reasons in this matter, I can assure you, nor do all
        those who lost their church and their friends in my surrounding.

        If I were to do the same as you, I would just state "there is indeed
        such a thing as ROCOR (V)", and I would add a few derogatory details
        about compromises, reasons why treasons occur, etc.

        Of course, it would add nothing to the search of the truth. It would
        just add to hatred and irritation. It is so little in Jesus' style.

        In God,

        Vladimir Kozyreff

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, gene703 <gene703@y...> wrote:
        > Come on Mikhael,
        >
        > there is no such thing as ROCOR(V)
        > there is retired Mp. Vitaly residing in Mansonville
        > there are several ROCOR old times rightly upset at his disgracefull
        treatment
        > plus a whole lot of assorted weirdos who hang out there for their
        own reasons that have nothing to with ROCOR
        > to call it a church is a bit of overstatement
        >
        > Gene T
        >
        >
        > michael nikitin <nikitinmike@y...> wrote:
        > So ROCOR(L) is in communion with the St.Herman of Alaska
        Brotherhood whom they defrocked. This is sad.
        >
        > I call ROCOR under Metr.Laurus ROCOR(L) and ROCOR under Metr.Vitaly
        ROCOR(V). One seems to hold to what we had under Holy Metr.Philaret
        while the other serves with those whom they defrocked. Will the real
        ROCOR please stand up?
        >
        > Shouldn't we un-defrock them...if we can? This is embarassing at
        the least and uncanonical.
        > One can only imagine with whom we'll concelebrate once we unite
        with MP.
        >
        > We're losing something. It's either grace or our minds...or both.
        >
        > Michael N
        >
        >
        > "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
        > Athanasios Jayne wrote:
        >
        > > The St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, in Platina,
        > > was received some time ago into the Serbian
        > > Patriarchate. Thus, we in ROCOR are in full
        > > Communion with them.
        >
        > JRS: (1) That still does not make it a "ROCOR calendar".
        >
        > (2) The Serbian Church has surely not added the name of Fr.
        Seraphim Rose to the calendar
        > of Saints.
        >
        > (3) While in ROCOR, the Platina brotherhood began issuing icons of
        St. John Maximovitch
        > when he had not been recognized yet as a Saint in ROCOR.
        >
        > (4) If, in fact, their calendar (which I haven't even seen) really
        does call Fr. Seraphim Rose a
        > Saint, such is only the private view of the publishers.
        >
        > In Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw
        >
        >
        >
        >
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