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[orthodox-rocor] Re: Antioch in Communion with Monophysites?!

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  • Athanasios Jayne
    ... argumentation. Practice humility and give us all a break.
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 9, 2005
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      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com,
      "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@o...> wrote:
      >
      > Good. Let's stop there. End the scandalous
      argumentation. Practice humility and give us all
      a break.<

      Dear Fr. Anthony,

      Believe me, I would like nothing more than to
      end this discussion, which has consumed a lot
      of my time and attention. But I don't see how this
      is possible so long as Fr. John R. Shaw continues
      to publicly accuse me of "teaching heresy." If he
      would withdraw this accusation (which, if false, is
      indeed "scandalous"), I will stop discussing it.

      Heresy is separation from God, and Fr. John R.
      Shaw has indicated that he believes me to have
      "taught heresy" on the subject of anathemas.
      Because he is a Priest, and a Priest within that
      part of the Church to which I belong (ROCOR), I
      must, I believe, take his opinion seriously. I must
      be willing to consider that he may be right. I must
      re-examine what I have said in the light of the
      teaching of the Holy Fathers and Ecumenical Councils.
      I must be willing to engage in a continuing dialogue
      in order to more surely discern the truth of the
      matter, and change my belief if it can be shown
      to be in error.

      Some have indicated weariness with this discussion,
      but no one is forced to read my posts.

      For me, to be accused of heretical teaching by a
      Priest is just about the most grievous thing
      imaginable. I would have been less troubled if
      I had been accused of being a thief or an adulterer,
      and I must seek a resolution of this matter--a
      matter which concerns not only me, but the teaching
      of the Holy Fathers, the Ecumenical Councils, and
      our holy Orthodox faith.

      Athanasios.
    • Fr. Anthony Nelson
      ... Then all that is necessary is to *do* it. ... The comment about you teaching heresy was on July 22 - on another list...and *you* chose to begin posting to
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 9, 2005
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        At 12:45 PM 8/9/2005, Athanasios Jayne wrote:

        >Believe me, I would like nothing more than to
        >end this discussion, which has consumed a lot
        >of my time and attention.

        Then all that is necessary is to *do* it.

        >But I don't see how this is possible so long as Fr. John R. Shaw continues
        >to publicly accuse me of "teaching heresy." If he
        >would withdraw this accusation (which, if false, is
        >indeed "scandalous"), I will stop discussing it.

        The comment about you teaching heresy was on July 22 - on another
        list...and *you* chose to begin posting to three other lists - and,
        based on what you wrote, which was wrong, not the teaching of the
        Orthodox Church, he was quite correct. You then chose to attempt to
        find proof-texts to defend your own error, but only succeeded in
        digging a deeper hole.

        Your recent comments about "inward" action of anathema appear to be
        an attempt to back-pedal the clearly false nature of your earlier
        comments - a disingenuous effort - and Fr. Andrew's comments would be
        well taken to heart.

        >Heresy is separation from God, and Fr. John R.
        >Shaw has indicated that he believes me to have
        >"taught heresy" on the subject of anathemas.

        What you wrote was wrong, contrary to that which the Church believes.
        Do you have a parish Priest? Take all of this to him...in order, and
        discuss it with him...let him teach you. Do not attempt to teach the
        internet community that which you clearly do not understand. It is
        past the time to be silent. In the pursuit of our own will we cannot
        hear the voice of God...we cannot pray...we cannot learn.

        >Because he is a Priest, and a Priest within that
        >part of the Church to which I belong (ROCOR), I
        >must, I believe, take his opinion seriously. I must
        >be willing to consider that he may be right. I must
        >re-examine what I have said in the light of the
        >teaching of the Holy Fathers and Ecumenical Councils.

        Then do so.

        >I must be willing to engage in a continuing dialogue
        >in order to more surely discern the truth of the
        >matter, and change my belief if it can be shown
        >to be in error.

        No. What you are doing is continuing to argue a point even without an
        antagonist.

        >Some have indicated weariness with this discussion,
        >but no one is forced to read my posts.

        Nor are you forced to write them. Which, do you suppose, is the
        greater sin? Remember the Lord's comments about scandal and the mill-stone.

        >For me, to be accused of heretical teaching by a
        >Priest is just about the most grievous thing
        >imaginable. I would have been less troubled if
        >I had been accused of being a thief or an adulterer,
        >and I must seek a resolution of this matter--a

        As I wrote, go to your Priest.


        * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        Fr. Anthony Nelson * Emergency Cell Phone Email:
        St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church * Up to 160 characters maximum
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • DDD
        Athanasios, I ve tried to write to you, but your mailbox is full and is returning the mail. Could you please free up your mailbox and then let me know (by
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 9, 2005
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          Athanasios,
          I've tried to write to you, but your mailbox is full and is returning the mail. Could you please free up your mailbox and then let me know (by personal e-mail) when you have done so?

          Thanks!
          Dimitra
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