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Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Antioch in Communion with Monophysites?!

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  • Fr. Anthony Nelson
    ... Good. Let s stop there. End the scandalous argumentation. Practice humility and give us all a break. Fr. Anthony * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 8, 2005
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      At 05:44 PM 8/8/2005, Athanasios Jayne wrote:

      >I am sorry if my lack of formal theological training, and
      >my consequent imprecision of speech, have misled Fr. John
      >into concluding that I hold an erroneous opinion on this
      >subject. I believe I hold, and I wish only to hold, what
      >the Fathers have taught, and what the Church believes, and
      >my ears are open to correction if I have erred in anything.

      Good. Let's stop there. End the scandalous argumentation. Practice
      humility and give us all a break.

      Fr. Anthony


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      Fr. Anthony Nelson * Emergency Cell Phone Email:
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    • michael nikitin
      Let s be nice. This list is for people to get a better understanding of Orthodoxy. Athanasios quotes the Holy Fathers. His argumentation is not scandalous. It
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 8, 2005
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        Let's be nice. This list is for people to get a better understanding of Orthodoxy.
        Athanasios quotes the Holy Fathers. His argumentation is not scandalous. It is in agreement with the Holy Fathers and well written. Those who don't quote the Holy Fathers, but insist on their own interpretation which are contrary to what the Holy Fathers have written, should end their scandalous argumentation. Many times it is just a misunderstanding.

        http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/library/st_john_maximovich/on_anathema.htm

        What is an Anathema? By Bishop Theophan the Recluse
        (Translated from the Russian text published in Pravoslavnaya Rus, #4, 1974.)

        "Whether your teaching and your name are pronounced as being under anathema or not, you already fall under it when your opinions are opposed to those of the Church, and when you persist in them. Fearful is the anathema. Leave off your evil opinions. Amen."

        Michael N


        "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@...> wrote:
        At 05:44 PM 8/8/2005, Athanasios Jayne wrote:

        >I am sorry if my lack of formal theological training, and
        >my consequent imprecision of speech, have misled Fr. John
        >into concluding that I hold an erroneous opinion on this
        >subject. I believe I hold, and I wish only to hold, what
        >the Fathers have taught, and what the Church believes, and
        >my ears are open to correction if I have erred in anything.

        Good. Let's stop there. End the scandalous argumentation. Practice
        humility and give us all a break.

        Fr. Anthony





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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Athanasios Jayne
        ... argumentation. Practice humility and give us all a break.
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 9, 2005
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          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com,
          "Fr. Anthony Nelson" <fr.anthony@o...> wrote:
          >
          > Good. Let's stop there. End the scandalous
          argumentation. Practice humility and give us all
          a break.<

          Dear Fr. Anthony,

          Believe me, I would like nothing more than to
          end this discussion, which has consumed a lot
          of my time and attention. But I don't see how this
          is possible so long as Fr. John R. Shaw continues
          to publicly accuse me of "teaching heresy." If he
          would withdraw this accusation (which, if false, is
          indeed "scandalous"), I will stop discussing it.

          Heresy is separation from God, and Fr. John R.
          Shaw has indicated that he believes me to have
          "taught heresy" on the subject of anathemas.
          Because he is a Priest, and a Priest within that
          part of the Church to which I belong (ROCOR), I
          must, I believe, take his opinion seriously. I must
          be willing to consider that he may be right. I must
          re-examine what I have said in the light of the
          teaching of the Holy Fathers and Ecumenical Councils.
          I must be willing to engage in a continuing dialogue
          in order to more surely discern the truth of the
          matter, and change my belief if it can be shown
          to be in error.

          Some have indicated weariness with this discussion,
          but no one is forced to read my posts.

          For me, to be accused of heretical teaching by a
          Priest is just about the most grievous thing
          imaginable. I would have been less troubled if
          I had been accused of being a thief or an adulterer,
          and I must seek a resolution of this matter--a
          matter which concerns not only me, but the teaching
          of the Holy Fathers, the Ecumenical Councils, and
          our holy Orthodox faith.

          Athanasios.
        • Fr. Anthony Nelson
          ... Then all that is necessary is to *do* it. ... The comment about you teaching heresy was on July 22 - on another list...and *you* chose to begin posting to
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 9, 2005
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            At 12:45 PM 8/9/2005, Athanasios Jayne wrote:

            >Believe me, I would like nothing more than to
            >end this discussion, which has consumed a lot
            >of my time and attention.

            Then all that is necessary is to *do* it.

            >But I don't see how this is possible so long as Fr. John R. Shaw continues
            >to publicly accuse me of "teaching heresy." If he
            >would withdraw this accusation (which, if false, is
            >indeed "scandalous"), I will stop discussing it.

            The comment about you teaching heresy was on July 22 - on another
            list...and *you* chose to begin posting to three other lists - and,
            based on what you wrote, which was wrong, not the teaching of the
            Orthodox Church, he was quite correct. You then chose to attempt to
            find proof-texts to defend your own error, but only succeeded in
            digging a deeper hole.

            Your recent comments about "inward" action of anathema appear to be
            an attempt to back-pedal the clearly false nature of your earlier
            comments - a disingenuous effort - and Fr. Andrew's comments would be
            well taken to heart.

            >Heresy is separation from God, and Fr. John R.
            >Shaw has indicated that he believes me to have
            >"taught heresy" on the subject of anathemas.

            What you wrote was wrong, contrary to that which the Church believes.
            Do you have a parish Priest? Take all of this to him...in order, and
            discuss it with him...let him teach you. Do not attempt to teach the
            internet community that which you clearly do not understand. It is
            past the time to be silent. In the pursuit of our own will we cannot
            hear the voice of God...we cannot pray...we cannot learn.

            >Because he is a Priest, and a Priest within that
            >part of the Church to which I belong (ROCOR), I
            >must, I believe, take his opinion seriously. I must
            >be willing to consider that he may be right. I must
            >re-examine what I have said in the light of the
            >teaching of the Holy Fathers and Ecumenical Councils.

            Then do so.

            >I must be willing to engage in a continuing dialogue
            >in order to more surely discern the truth of the
            >matter, and change my belief if it can be shown
            >to be in error.

            No. What you are doing is continuing to argue a point even without an
            antagonist.

            >Some have indicated weariness with this discussion,
            >but no one is forced to read my posts.

            Nor are you forced to write them. Which, do you suppose, is the
            greater sin? Remember the Lord's comments about scandal and the mill-stone.

            >For me, to be accused of heretical teaching by a
            >Priest is just about the most grievous thing
            >imaginable. I would have been less troubled if
            >I had been accused of being a thief or an adulterer,
            >and I must seek a resolution of this matter--a

            As I wrote, go to your Priest.


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            Fr. Anthony Nelson * Emergency Cell Phone Email:
            St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church * Up to 160 characters maximum
            Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441 * total allowed including return
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            http://www.orthodox.org/stbenedict/ * mailto:fra-mobile@...

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          • DDD
            Athanasios, I ve tried to write to you, but your mailbox is full and is returning the mail. Could you please free up your mailbox and then let me know (by
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 9, 2005
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              Athanasios,
              I've tried to write to you, but your mailbox is full and is returning the mail. Could you please free up your mailbox and then let me know (by personal e-mail) when you have done so?

              Thanks!
              Dimitra
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