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[orthodox-synod] Orthodox New Testament

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  • Dormition Skete
    Dear Orthodox Christians, Sales of the Orthodox New Testament have been outstanding! The response of those who have received it have been most positive. Let us
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 4, 2000
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      Dear Orthodox Christians,

      Sales of the Orthodox New Testament have been outstanding! The response of
      those who have received it have been most positive.

      Let us share another reason why every Orthodox home should have the Orthodox
      New Testament, rather than any other translation.

      King James in the 1600's wanted to be named after an Aposlte. So, instead of
      changing his own name to that of an Apostle, he decided to change the name
      of an Apostle to his own. He took the name of the Apostle Iakovos, and told
      his translators that when they translate the Gospels and the Epistles, to
      change the name of the Apostle Iakovos and put his name instead. Therefore,
      we read in all English versions the names of the Apostles Peter, JAMES, and
      John. Also, the Epistle of the Apostle Iakovos is now wrongly translated as
      the Epistle of the Apostle James. Iakov in the Greek is Jacob in English.
      Iakovos is the greekicized, or Greek rendering, of Iakov. All three
      Evangelists who wrote in Greek wrote the name of the Apostle as Iakovos,
      which is different from Iakov, and therefore we are very justified when
      translating the name Iakovos, by keeping it as Iakovos in English. The early
      Greek translators of the Evangelist Matthew also used the word Iakovos.

      Another example is in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 9, verses 4-6, where
      St. Paul, on the road to Damascus, received the visitation of Christ, where
      our Saviour asked him,

      "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me? And He said, "Who art Thou Lord?" And
      the Lord said, "I am Jesus Whom thou persecutest; but rise up and enter into
      the city, and it shall be told thee what is needful for thee to do."

      This is the rendering in the Orthodox New Testament, which is according to
      the Greek, and all known Greek codices, which means that this is exactly
      what it says. There is no other authority than the Greek.

      The translators of the King James Version, on the other hand, decided for
      some erroneous reason, to take part of verse 14 of the 26th Chapter of Acts,
      and insert it, on their own authority, here in Chapter 9, verse 4. So the
      King James Version reads:

      Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
      ***it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and
      astonished said, ‘Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do?'*** And the Lord said
      unto him, ‘Arise and go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou
      must do.

      The Endnote in the Orthodox New Testament for this verse reads:

      9:5. See Acts 22:10 and 26:14. Without the authority of a Greek codex, the
      KJV adds, "It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling
      and astonished said, ‘Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do?' And the Lord said
      unto him, ‘Arise and go into the city...[Acts 9:5, 6].'" These additional
      words are absent elsewhere [Uncials a A B C E; Ver. Vulg., Syr. Pesh., Sah.,
      Boh., Armenian; Editions Constantinople, GLTTrAW, NBA, Tischendorf].

      So we see that the words, "And he trembling and astonished said, ‘Lord, what
      wilt Thou have me to do?'", came from nowhere.

      To obtain a copy of the Orthodox New Testament, you may e-mail Holy Apostles
      Convent at:

      apostles@...

      or telephone (719)-395-8898
      or Fax (719)-395-9422

      In Christ,

      Archimandrite Gregory
    • Patrick Barrett
      ... of ... name ... told ... Therefore, ... and ... as ... early ... Reverend Father, You are certainly justified in rendering the name of the holy Apostle as
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 5, 2000
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        Archimandrite Gregory writes:

        > King James in the 1600's wanted to be named after an Aposlte. So, instead
        of
        > changing his own name to that of an Apostle, he decided to change the
        name
        > of an Apostle to his own. He took the name of the Apostle Iakovos, and
        told
        > his translators that when they translate the Gospels and the Epistles, to
        > change the name of the Apostle Iakovos and put his name instead.
        Therefore,
        > we read in all English versions the names of the Apostles Peter, JAMES,
        and
        > John. Also, the Epistle of the Apostle Iakovos is now wrongly translated
        as
        > the Epistle of the Apostle James. Iakov in the Greek is Jacob in English.
        > Iakovos is the greekicized, or Greek rendering, of Iakov. All three
        > Evangelists who wrote in Greek wrote the name of the Apostle as Iakovos,
        > which is different from Iakov, and therefore we are very justified when
        > translating the name Iakovos, by keeping it as Iakovos in English. The
        early
        > Greek translators of the Evangelist Matthew also used the word Iakovos.

        Reverend Father,

        You are certainly justified in rendering the name of the holy Apostle as
        Iakovos instead of James; however, this is entirely a matter of taste, and
        King James I did in fact bear the (English) name of an Apostle.

        The name James is a perfectly good Orthodox name, deriving from the late
        Latin Jacomus, which is more obviously related to Iakovos. "James" is
        related to the Italian Giacomo, the Welsh Iago, and so on. This may not be
        immediately obvious from the form of the word, but names do have a way of
        changing, especially across different languages. Thus, we have Miriam,
        Maria, Mary, Maureen, Manon, Mae, Muriel, Moya, Maryse, Moira, and even Min,
        Molly and Polly - all different versions of the same name.

        The Matthew Bible of 1549 (17 years before the birth of King James I)
        rendered St. Mark 1.19 as follows:

        "And when he had gonne a lyttell further thence, he sawe James the sonne of
        Zebede & John hys brother, euen as they were in the shyppe mendynge theyr
        nettes."

        Patrick Barrett
        patrikios@...





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      • Symeon
        ... Arch. Gregory Let us share another reason why every Orthodox home Arch. Gregory should have the Orthodox New Testament, rather than Arch. Gregory any
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 5, 2000
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          >>>>> "Arch. Gregory" == Dormition Skete <gocofusa@...> writes:

          Arch. Gregory> Let us share another reason why every Orthodox home
          Arch. Gregory> should have the Orthodox New Testament, rather than
          Arch. Gregory> any other translation.

          Arch. Gregory> King James in the 1600's wanted to be named after
          Arch. Gregory> an Aposlte. So, instead of changing his own name to
          Arch. Gregory> that of an Apostle, he decided to change the name
          Arch. Gregory> of an Apostle to his own. He took the name of the

          Father Gregory,

          I don't want to sound disrespectful (really!), but others on the
          list have already taken issue with this particular point.

          To others who have seen this work:

          Is Archimandrite Gregory's comment indicative of the scholarship
          that went into this new translation? Not being a Bible scholar
          myself, I wouldn't want to be led by the nose by another (albeit
          more subtle) variant of the Orthodox Study Bible type of nonsense
          (which even *I* could see through!).

          The positive comments so far give me hope, though! I would really
          welcome a new translation I could have complete trust it.

          ===================================================================
          | Symeon | Fredrik Noon, Senior Software Engineer |
          | fcn@... | Apptitude |
          | www.noon.org | fnoon@... +408/574-2206 (USA) |
          |-------------------+---------------------------------------------|
          | pgp key: <ftp://ftp.noon.org/fcn.asc> DH/DSS 4093/1024:7840AC55 |
          | fingerprint: 5FB8 29B0 7F6D 24FA 6AD4 07E4 022E 0C58 7840 AC55 |
          ===================================================================
        • Rev. John R. Shaw
          I haven t had time to dig into the actual stages of its linguistic transformation, but the name James *was* used prior to the KJ Bible as the English
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 5, 2000
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            I haven't had time to dig into the actual stages of its linguistic
            transformation, but the name James *was* used prior to the KJ Bible as
            the English equivalent of "Jacobus". Thus I have xerox-from-microfilm
            copy of the Sarum Primer in English, printed in the rule of King Henry
            VIII. In that, there is a section giving Epistles and Gospels for most
            Sundays and feasts, and it heads those from "Epistula Jacobi" as "from
            the Epistle of St. James".

            Fr. John R. Shaw
            > > Arch. Gregory> King
            James in the 1600's
            wanted to be named after
            > Arch. Gregory> an Aposlte. So, instead of changing his own name to
            > Arch. Gregory> that of an Apostle, he decided to change the name
            > Arch. Gregory> of an Apostle to his own. He took the name of the
            >
            > Father Gregory,
            >
            > I don't want to sound disrespectful (really!), but others on the
            > list have already taken issue with this particular point.
            >
            > To others who have seen this work:
            >
            > Is Archimandrite Gregory's comment indicative of the scholarship
            > that went into this new translation? Not being a Bible scholar
            > myself, I wouldn't want to be led by the nose by another (albeit
            > more subtle) variant of the Orthodox Study Bible type of nonsense
            > (which even *I* could see through!).
            >
            > The positive comments so far give me hope, though! I would really
            > welcome a new translation I could have complete trust it.
            >
            > ===================================================================
            > | Symeon | Fredrik Noon, Senior Software Engineer |
            > | fcn@... | Apptitude |
            > | www.noon.org | fnoon@... +408/574-2206 (USA) |
            > |-------------------+---------------------------------------------|
            > | pgp key: <ftp://ftp.noon.org/fcn.asc> DH/DSS 4093/1024:7840AC55 |
            > | fingerprint: 5FB8 29B0 7F6D 24FA 6AD4 07E4 022E 0C58 7840 AC55 |
            > ===================================================================
            >
            >
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          • Robert Miller
            When I was in R.C. seminary many years ago, the Latin professor taught that Jacobus = James. A linguistics professor friend yesterday pointed out that James in
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 5, 2000
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              When I was in R.C. seminary many years ago, the Latin professor taught that
              Jacobus = James.
              A linguistics professor friend yesterday pointed out that James in Spanish
              is Diego, rather a different word from any of those other names proposed.
              It appears that Fr Gregory's hypotheses may be correct, or may not.

              Jos M

              ----------
              > From: Rev. John R. Shaw <vrevjrs@...>
              > To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com
              > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Iakovos vs. James
              > Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:58 PM
              >
              > I haven't had time to dig into the actual stages of its linguistic
              > transformation, but the name James *was* used prior to the KJ Bible as
              > the English equivalent of "Jacobus". Thus I have xerox-from-microfilm
              > copy of the Sarum Primer in English, printed in the rule of King Henry
              > VIII. In that, there is a section giving Epistles and Gospels for most
              > Sundays and feasts, and it heads those from "Epistula Jacobi" as "from
              > the Epistle of St. James".
              >
              > Fr. John R. Shaw
            • LJames6034@aol.com
              For several hundred years, people have been walking from France into Spain. For what reason? They were on pilgrimage to Santiago d Capostello, where the body
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 6, 2000
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                For several hundred years, people have been walking from France into Spain.
                For what reason? They were on pilgrimage to Santiago d' Capostello, where
                the body of St. James is alleged to be buried. St. Iago?

                King James VI and I was baptized in the Roman Church, by his mother, Mary,
                Queen of Scots, doubtless the priest used Latin, so that the baby prince was
                probably called "Jacobus." If so, he was the 6th Jacobus to reign over the
                Scots. His son James VII and II was the last James to rule over the Scots or
                the English. His son, James VIII and III was only de jure, not de facto, king
                of Scots and of Great Britain. The de facto king was George I.

                A Welshman with the family name James has the name, because, in Welsh, an
                "es" ending indicates someone's daughter's son. Hence, there are so many
                Joneses, because Jones really means: "Jon's daughter's son." Think about
                it. Which of you did not have an Uncle John?

                "James," for a Welshman, means "Camb's daughter's son." Cambria? That is
                what the Romans called Cyru, which, in Welsh, means: "Countrymen." That
                is the same people the Saxons called "Waelsa," which is Saxon for
                "foreigner," or perhaps "translator into Latin." The Welsh were a
                thoroughly Latinized people. Indeed, some Welsh historians say the Roman
                Emperor Magnus Maximus was the "Father of Wales."

                Pardon me for thinking that the whole discussion centres around a problem of
                "ethnocentricism," which, like racism, is a form of insanity. But, it is
                a form of madness with which the Orthodox Church (as a whole) is rife.


                Father Andrew (Laurence J. James, Ph.D., knyaz)
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