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Re: Long Live Tsar Michael !!!

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  • vkozyreff
    Dear Roman, I discussed a few times on this forum the meaning of do not judge and the necessity to judge for any Christian. Your message, however, is a sum
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 2 2:47 AM
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      Dear Roman,

      I discussed a few times on this forum the meaning of "do not judge"
      and the necessity to judge for any Christian. Your message, however,
      is a sum of condemnations and insults of the kind that we should
      avoid and that is not expected from a historian, in my view. Briefly,
      your message (whcih is more offensive than the ones you criticised)
      says that some members of this List:

      1. have disappointed you
      2. are below the expected level
      3. have shown dizzying lack of charity.
      4. are "vile" "Conspiracy theorists".
      5. are "foaming nationalists"
      6. are "angry juridictionalists".
      7. are a shame
      8. are forgetting basics and the fact that their correspondents
      are made in the image of God.

      You add that you have tolerated the above with difficulty and that
      the moderator has failed.

      Concerning your attacks which I felt directed at least in part to me,
      I woulkd like to stress that:

      I am not vile in thinking that there are conspiracies (Vl Averky of
      Syracuse spoke about them).

      I am not a foaming nationalist, but I love Russia.

      I am not an "angry juridictionalist", but I am sad at ROCOR's recent
      evolution.

      The conversation about racial features on this List is unimportant.

      I would like to say the following about the Russian succession: Your
      judgement on the Kyrill Vladimirovich line as candidates to the
      throne seems wrong and not very well informed to me, especially from
      the spiritual angle. You overlook their treason of the Emperor and of
      Russia in 1917, their absence by the Russian orthodox anti communist
      patriots in the West, their lack of dignity before Russia's new
      leaders ad their betraying ROCOR. They have not impressed anybody in
      the White Russian emigration. They have never shown any kind of
      leadership.

      I met a few people that had "put themselves at the service of Her
      Highness", who looked like operetta courtisans more than anything
      else and others that had been "ennobled". For years, we have been
      trying to associate them with our actions. The only response that we
      received once, is that Her Highness Maria Vladimirovna accepted to
      attend a Russian charity ball in Brussels. She only cared about
      winning at the lottery and getting flattered. Prince George is
      working at the European Commission in Brussels. Attempts to
      communicate with him from the Russian orthodox community have been
      ignored.

      In God,

      Vladimir Kozyreff


      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Martin"
      <MartinRE@w...> wrote:
      > Dear List,
      >
      > How disappointing. This is a very interesting and important topic
      that could have spawned any number of edifying and relevant
      offshoots. But, alas, the thread has gone the way of mutual
      misunderstandings, of misspoken words, of hurt feelings and
      apologies, and of dizzying lack of charity. I have long tolerated
      the vile things that are sometimes said on this list by conspiracy
      theorists, foaming nationalists, and angry jurisdictionalists. But
      am I really alone in thinking that the time has come to go back to
      basics and remember that we all are in a community based on shared
      belief and love, and that the anonymity that one might be afforded by
      our computers doesn't allow us to behave as if the person on the
      receiving end of our emails aren't people with feelings and worth,
      all made in the image and likeness of God?
      >
      > What a disappointment. What a shame.
      >
      > Is it time for more energetic moderation of the contributions to
      this list?
      >
      > Roman Martin
      >
      > Russell E. Martin
      > Assoc. Professor of History
      > Westminster College
      > New Wilmington, PA 16172-0001
      > phone: 724.946.6254
      > fax: 724.946.7256
      > webpage: http://www.westminster.edu/staff/martinre/
      > other email: remartin@p...
    • vkozyreff
      Dear List, Prince Michael of Kent, son of George, Duke of Kent gave up his right to the throne in 1978 when he married the Roman Catholic Baroness
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 2 6:20 AM
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        Dear List,

        Prince Michael of Kent, son of George, Duke of Kent gave up his right
        to the throne in 1978 when he married the Roman Catholic Baroness
        Marie-Christine von Reibnitz of Bohemia. They have two children, Lord
        Frederick Windsor, born in 1979; and Lady Gabriella Windsor, born in
        1981.

        There was embarrassment in the Eighties when Princess Michael of
        Kent's father, Baron Gunther von Reibnitz, was exposed as a former
        Nazi party member and SS officer.

        " It was being speculated for over a year, but now it appears that
        Lady Gabriella Windsor, called Ella and 30th in line to the British
        throne, will marry Aatish Taseer, 24-year-old son of the columnist
        Tavleen Singh, soon. Prince and Princess Michael Kent will reportedly
        announce that their 23-year-old daughter is to marry Aatish early
        this year. The Prince and the Princess have no problem with Aatish
        who, although born of a Muslim father, is said to be a practising
        Sikh. In fact the Princess, who considers Aatish as one of the most
        handsome young man, once reportedly said she would have no objection
        if Prince Williams married a Muslim girl. .. [India Express Bureau]"

        http://desitalk.newsindia-times.com/2005/01/21/wedding-28top.html

        I wonder whether the Prince is not a bit too "open minded" to be a
        reasonable candidate for an orthodox throne.

        In God,

        Vladimir Kozyreff

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
        <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
        > Dear Roman,
        >
        > I discussed a few times on this forum the meaning of "do not judge"
        > and the necessity to judge for any Christian. Your message,
        however,
        > is a sum of condemnations and insults of the kind that we should
        > avoid and that is not expected from a historian, in my view.
        Briefly,
        > your message (whcih is more offensive than the ones you criticised)
        > says that some members of this List:
        >
        > 1. have disappointed you
        > 2. are below the expected level
        > 3. have shown dizzying lack of charity.
        > 4. are "vile" "Conspiracy theorists".
        > 5. are "foaming nationalists"
        > 6. are "angry juridictionalists".
        > 7. are a shame
        > 8. are forgetting basics and the fact that their correspondents
        > are made in the image of God.
        >
        > You add that you have tolerated the above with difficulty and that
        > the moderator has failed.
        >
        > Concerning your attacks which I felt directed at least in part to
        me,
        > I woulkd like to stress that:
        >
        > I am not vile in thinking that there are conspiracies (Vl Averky of
        > Syracuse spoke about them).
        >
        > I am not a foaming nationalist, but I love Russia.
        >
        > I am not an "angry juridictionalist", but I am sad at ROCOR's
        recent
        > evolution.
        >
        > The conversation about racial features on this List is unimportant.
        >
        > I would like to say the following about the Russian succession:
        Your
        > judgement on the Kyrill Vladimirovich line as candidates to the
        > throne seems wrong and not very well informed to me, especially
        from
        > the spiritual angle. You overlook their treason of the Emperor and
        of
        > Russia in 1917, their absence by the Russian orthodox anti
        communist
        > patriots in the West, their lack of dignity before Russia's new
        > leaders ad their betraying ROCOR. They have not impressed anybody
        in
        > the White Russian emigration. They have never shown any kind of
        > leadership.
        >
        > I met a few people that had "put themselves at the service of Her
        > Highness", who looked like operetta courtisans more than anything
        > else and others that had been "ennobled". For years, we have been
        > trying to associate them with our actions. The only response that
        we
        > received once, is that Her Highness Maria Vladimirovna accepted to
        > attend a Russian charity ball in Brussels. She only cared about
        > winning at the lottery and getting flattered. Prince George is
        > working at the European Commission in Brussels. Attempts to
        > communicate with him from the Russian orthodox community have been
        > ignored.
        >
        > In God,
        >
        > Vladimir Kozyreff
        >
        >
        > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Martin"
        > <MartinRE@w...> wrote:
        > > Dear List,
        > >
        > > How disappointing. This is a very interesting and important
        topic
        > that could have spawned any number of edifying and relevant
        > offshoots. But, alas, the thread has gone the way of mutual
        > misunderstandings, of misspoken words, of hurt feelings and
        > apologies, and of dizzying lack of charity. I have long tolerated
        > the vile things that are sometimes said on this list by conspiracy
        > theorists, foaming nationalists, and angry jurisdictionalists. But
        > am I really alone in thinking that the time has come to go back to
        > basics and remember that we all are in a community based on shared
        > belief and love, and that the anonymity that one might be afforded
        by
        > our computers doesn't allow us to behave as if the person on the
        > receiving end of our emails aren't people with feelings and worth,
        > all made in the image and likeness of God?
        > >
        > > What a disappointment. What a shame.
        > >
        > > Is it time for more energetic moderation of the contributions to
        > this list?
        > >
        > > Roman Martin
        > >
        > > Russell E. Martin
        > > Assoc. Professor of History
        > > Westminster College
        > > New Wilmington, PA 16172-0001
        > > phone: 724.946.6254
        > > fax: 724.946.7256
        > > webpage: http://www.westminster.edu/staff/martinre/
        > > other email: remartin@p...
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