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Tsar Michael?

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  • byakimov@csc.com.au
    Tsar Michael? The following has been adapted and corrected from an article which appeared in The Daily Mail of 9 April 2005. A proposal to place Prince Michael
    Message 1 of 21 , May 29 8:10 PM
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      Tsar Michael?



      The following has been adapted and corrected from an article which appeared in The Daily Mail
      of 9 April 2005.



      A proposal to place Prince Michael of Kent on the restored Russian throne was made public
      yesterday. The bearded Prince Michael bears a striking resemblance to his great uncle, the
      martyred last Tsar, Nicholas II, executed on Lenin’s orders in 1918.


      The suggestion that the Prince become Tsar is from a senior Moscow political analyst with
      links to the Kremlin. Stanislav Belkovsky claimed that a return of the monarchy would help
      Russians to retain pride in their country at times when politicians were discredited because
      of unpopular decisions or corruption. He said his idea had support within the Kremlin among
      senior figures close to President V1adimir Putin. He claimed that it was backed by ‘seven or
      eight people from the team which came to power with Putin’.


      The New Izvestia newspaper, which mentioned several pretenders to the throne, reported
      yesterday: ‘In the corridors of power, they seriously discuss the monarchy project. This time
      it is almost entirely around the name of Prince Michael of Kent’.


      Belkovsky floated the idea of a figurehead monarchy along British lines, or a less official
      role for a revived Romanov dynasty. A new Tsar would be a focus of respect and would not be
      dented by changing political tides, he added. ‘Prince Michael is a close relative of the
      Romanovs, so he has a formal right to claim the Romanov throne’, he said. ‘Foreigners who came
      to power generally played a constructive role in Russian history’.


      Prince Michael speaks of his Russian heritage on his personal website, which shows a family
      tree showing his links to the the Tsars. He is a frequent visitor to Russia, where he is a
      popular figure. Elderly peasants, struck by his similarity to Nicholas II, often fall to their
      knees in his presence. He is also a fluent Russian speaker, and the proposal comes amid a
      growing debate about President Putin’s successor when his second - and final - term ends in
      2008.

      Some supporters want the President, seen by many as increasingly authoritarian, to tear up the
      constitution and run again. Others say that the head of state should become a figurehead, with
      real power given to the prime minister, Such a move would permit Putin to become a powerful
      premier, and technically would also allow for a figurehead monarch. However, President Putin
      has insisted that the Russian constitution should not be changed.


      Belkovsky said that Prince Michael was not the only candidate for Tsar. The Prince is a
      grandson of King George V, the last Tsar’s first cousin, and is also related to Nicholas II
      through his mother Marina, who was the great grand-daughter of Tsar Alexander III, Nicholas’s
      father. Prince Michael is also related to the martyred Tsarina Alexandra, who was a
      granddaughter of Queen Victoria.


      Last night Prince Michael’s spokesman declined to comment on this story.
    • vkozyreff
      Dear List, Prince Michael is a notable Freemason. As such, he is an enemy of Russia and Orthodoxy. Freemasonry is the principal promoter of the New World
      Message 2 of 21 , May 30 12:12 AM
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        Dear List,

        Prince Michael is a notable Freemason. As such, he is an enemy of
        Russia and Orthodoxy. Freemasonry is the principal promoter of
        the "New World Order".

        The comments about his physical resembance with Nicholas II are
        ridiculous, but those about Putin's support are not.

        Below are a few websites.

        In God,

        Vladimir Kozyreff


        Freemasonry in Russia has a really rich history. It is the heritage
        of Russia, and world Masonry, as well.

        http://www.freemasonry.ru/index_e.html

        In his capacity as Grand Master, Prince Michael attended the Mark
        Master Mason Annual Investiture Meeting at Freemasons Hall on Tuesday
        10th June (2003).

        http://www.princemichael.org.uk/diary/months/june_2003.html

        "It's been said that secret societies are a key component in the New
        World Order and the largest of all is Freemasonry... Belief in a
        supreme being is essential for initiates. That Supreme Being is
        referred to as the "Great Architect of the Universe" ... Add to that
        the feeling of being rather special because you have been let into
        some little esoteric secrets of the craft to which the rest of
        society (or the "profane" as non masons are referred to by initiates)
        are not party, and its no wonder that Freemasonry has attracted so
        many".

        In Britain, craft freemasonry is run from the United Grand Lodge of
        England. It is to be found throughout the establishment, business and
        the professions, particularly in the civil service, the legal
        profession, police and the military.

        Its president is the Duke of Kent, which no doubt many would see as
        giving an image of respectability to the whole thing. (Royalty have
        long been associated with the craft, King George VI was an
        enthusiastic mason, although Charles and Andrew have not been
        initiated).

        http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=509

        Prince Michael of Kent, Brother of Grand Rank. Senior Grand Warden,
        1979.

        http://www.medusafile.com/freemasons.htm

        The Bilderbergers

        Major tentacle of the New World Order, responsible for selecting and
        controlling the President of the United States and the Prime Minister
        of Britain, amongst other activities.

        The Committee of 300

        Also known as the Olympians whose aim is to bring in the New World
        Order, much of their philosophy is based on Malthus, who worked for
        the East India Company and preached population control and limited
        resources. It is this which led to their eugenics program and
        suppression of technology which contradicts this thesis. To see the
        program of the committee of 300, follow link to "Targets of the
        Illuminati" here.or see :CONSPIRATORS' HIERARCHY THE STORY OF THE
        COMMITTEE OF 300 or INDEX TO CONSPIRATORS' HIERARCHY THE STORY OF
        THE COMMITTEE OF 300 or The Story of The Committee of 300

        The Freemasons

        Although friendly and sociable at the lower levels, do not
        undersetimate the importance of freemasonry in the organisation of
        the New World Order. Though charitable in the rank and file the
        highest ranks of freemasonry are Satanic.

        The Council on Foreign Relations

        Powerful tool of the New World Order to implement its policies,
        parallel secret government controlled by Rockefeller.

        The Trilateral Commission

        Launched by David Rockefeller and made public in 1973, consists of
        invited financiers, industrialists, media moguls, union leaders and
        politicians from North America, Western Europe and Japan, its agenda
        is to control the course of international events and protect elite
        interests.

        The Stanford Research Institute

        Applied social psychiatry used not therapeutically but to further the
        aims of the New World Order through the club of Rome and the
        encouragement of counter culture - Sex, Drugs and Rock'n'Roll. Many
        of its secrets are still unavailable for public inspection.

        The Tavistock Institute

        The Tavistock Institute for Human Relations is the premier
        brainwashing institute of the world, a high ranking organisation
        under the Committee of 300 was given the job of implementing the 300
        Club objective of weakening the moral fibre which advocates the
        breakup of the family, to keep people in a state of crisis and to
        build up cults.

        Club of Rome

        Founded by Aurelio Peccei in 1968, one of their key functions is to
        create and control economic recessions, the members are drawn from
        the Black Nobility and Anglo-American financiers. It has its own
        private intelligence agency and access to back-up from Interpol. It
        has connecting links to Mossad, CIA, KGB and only the STASSI (the
        former East-German secret service)was beyond their reach.[see:AMPP
        The Systems Method Bilderberg and Club of Rome or CLUB OF ROME]

        http://www.medusafile.com/shame.htm

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, byakimov@c... wrote:
        >

        > Tsar
        Michael?

        >

        >

        >

        > The following has been adapted and corrected from an article which
        appeared in The Daily Mail
        > of 9 April
        2005.

        >

        >

        >

        > A proposal to place Prince Michael of Kent on the restored Russian
        throne was made public
        > yesterday. The bearded Prince Michael bears a striking resemblance
        to his great uncle, the
        > martyred last Tsar, Nicholas II, executed on Lenin’s orders in
        1918.
        >

        >

        > The suggestion that the Prince become Tsar is from a senior Moscow
        political analyst with
        > links to the Kremlin. Stanislav Belkovsky claimed that a return of
        the monarchy would help
        > Russians to retain pride in their country at times when
        politicians were discredited because
        > of unpopular decisions or corruption. He said his idea had support
        within the Kremlin among
        > senior figures close to President V1adimir Putin. He claimed that
        it was backed by ‘seven or
        > eight people from the team which came to power with
        Putin’.
        >

        >

        > The New Izvestia newspaper, which mentioned several pretenders to
        the throne, reported
        > yesterday: ‘In the corridors of power, they seriously discuss
        the monarchy project. This time
        > it is almost entirely around the name of Prince Michael of
        Kent’.
        >

        >

        > Belkovsky floated the idea of a figurehead monarchy along British
        lines, or a less official
        > role for a revived Romanov dynasty. A new Tsar would be a focus of
        respect and would not be
        > dented by changing political tides, he added. ‘Prince Michael is
        a close relative of the
        > Romanovs, so he has a formal right to claim the Romanov throne’,
        he said. ‘Foreigners who came
        > to power generally played a constructive role in Russian
        history’.
        >

        >

        > Prince Michael speaks of his Russian heritage on his personal
        website, which shows a family
        > tree showing his links to the the Tsars. He is a frequent visitor
        to Russia, where he is a
        > popular figure. Elderly peasants, struck by his similarity to
        Nicholas II, often fall to their
        > knees in his presence. He is also a fluent Russian speaker, and
        the proposal comes amid a
        > growing debate about President Putin’s successor when his
        second - and final - term ends in
        >
        2008.

        >

        > Some supporters want the President, seen by many as increasingly
        authoritarian, to tear up the
        > constitution and run again. Others say that the head of state
        should become a figurehead, with
        > real power given to the prime minister, Such a move would permit
        Putin to become a powerful
        > premier, and technically would also allow for a figurehead
        monarch. However, President Putin
        > has insisted that the Russian constitution should not be
        changed.
        >

        >

        > Belkovsky said that Prince Michael was not the only candidate for
        Tsar. The Prince is a
        > grandson of King George V, the last Tsar’s first cousin, and is
        also related to Nicholas II
        > through his mother Marina, who was the great grand-daughter of
        Tsar Alexander III, Nicholas’s
        > father. Prince Michael is also related to the martyred Tsarina
        Alexandra, who was a
        > granddaughter of Queen
        Victoria.

        >

        >

        > Last night Prince Michael’s spokesman declined to comment on
        this story.
      • vkozyreff
        Dear List, Is there such a thing as world conspiracy? It would be too easy to dismiss its existence and to accuse those who point at it of searching excuses
        Message 3 of 21 , May 30 9:34 AM
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          Dear List,

          Is there such a thing as world conspiracy? It would be too easy to
          dismiss its existence and to accuse those who point at it of
          searching excuses for their own failures (among which the "Russian"
          revolution).

          A conspiracy is a secret agreement between two or more people to
          perform an unlawful act. Is the Antichrist not a conspiracy? Was the
          Komintern not a conspiracy? Is Freeemasonry not a conspiracy?

          In Russia, Emperor Peter III served as grand master of the Russian
          grand lodge, which was organized in St. Petersburg in 1771. Catherin
          II did not ban the lodges, but she showed the gentlemen freemasons
          that she could not approve of their membership of the order, as a
          result of which the masonic works were limited. Paul I banned the
          lodges and in 1803. Alexander I permitted them again. He was a
          freemason himself first. Condemned by the Russian Orthodox Church,
          masonry was later banned by Alexander I in 1822. Nicholas I renewed
          the prohibition of freemasonry in 1826. Now, it is flourishing again
          in Russia.

          (See: http://www.freemasonry.ru/index_e.html).

          I said, in message 14115, that it would be nice if our "democratic
          leaders" were independant and not under the influence of unelected
          influence groups or people. The Trilateral Commission is one of them.

          Let us not forget about the political meaning and context of the
          projected ROCOR-MP union.

          Since there are now rumours about Prince Michael of Kent being
          approached to reign over Russia, and since many think we can share
          the US government joys and sorrows, I think it is useful to mention
          some of a Trilateral Commission's leader's thinking, below.

          Note how close the US and USSR leadership were. It is wrong to
          assimilate the ROCOR with the US, to think that resisting the MP is
          resisting Russia, or to think that opposing the MP is supporting any
          US policy.

          In God,

          Vladimir Kozyreff

          The roots of the Trilateral Commission (TC) stem from a book Between
          Two Ages written by Zbigniew Brzezinski in 1970 while he was a
          professor at Columbia University in New York City. David Rockefeller
          read the book and was impressed with its contents. The book inspired
          Rockefeller to create the TC.

          · In July 1972, 8 members of CFR, among whom were David Rockefeller
          and Zbigniew Brzezinski founded the Trilateral Commission. The
          Commission's purpose is to engineer an enduring partnership among the
          ruling classes of North America, Western Europe, and Japan -- hence
          the term 'Trilateral' -- in an attempt to influence public opinions
          and government decision-makings in such a way that the peoples,
          governments and economies of all nations must serve the needs of
          multinational banks and corporations. To achieve this, Trilateralists
          must manage both dependence and democracy -- at home and abroad.

          In other words, they must reduce the mass to dependency and suppress
          democracy and any voice of protest through control and surveillance.
          The ultimate aim would be to establish an one-world economy, one-
          world government, one-world monetary system, and one-world religion.
          The following excerpts from official TC's documents, together with
          writings and speeches of founding members will confirm this.

          · Since Brzezinski, who became the Trilateral Commission's founding
          executive director, provides the rationale for the creation of TC, we
          would like to further examine the ideas contained in his book Between
          Two Ages (p. 300):

          o "Though Stalinism may have been a needless tragedy for both the
          Russian people and communism as an ideal, there is the intellectually
          tantalizing possibility that for the world at large it was, as we
          shall see, a blessing in disguise." (Note: Stalin had massacred at
          least 20 million people and here Brzezinski praises the ideology of
          this mass murderer.)

          o "Marxism represents a further vital and creative stage in the
          maturing of man's universal vision. Marxism is simultaneously a
          victory of the external man over the inner, passive man and a victory
          of reason over belief." (Note: he believes in the god of reason.)

          o "In the absence of social consensus society's emotional and
          rational needs may be fused -- mass media makes this easier to
          achieve -- in the person of an individual who is seen as...making the
          necessary innovations in the social order." (Note: he calls for a
          charismatic individual who can change the social order, i.e. the Anti-
          Christ.)

          o "Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to
          political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific know-how.
          Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this
          elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by the latest
          modern techniques for influencing public behavior and keeping society
          under close surveillance and control."

          o "Movement toward such a community (of developed nations)... would
          involve the forging of community links among the United States,
          Western Europe, and Japan (a Trilateral Commission stated
          objective)."

          o "Though the objective of shaping a community of the developed
          nations is less ambitious than the goal of world government, it is
          more attainable."

          o "The Soviet Union could have emerged as the standard-bearer of this
          century's most influential system of thought and as the social model
          for resolving the key dilemmas facing modern man."

          o Marxism "supplied the best available insight into contemporary
          reality. Marxist theory [is] this century's most infuential system of
          thought."

          o 'The approaching 200th anniversary of the Declaration of
          Independence could justify the call for a national Constitutional
          convention to reexamine the nation's formal institutional framework."

          http://www.cephasministry.com/history_of_masonry_6.html



          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
          <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
          > Dear List,
          >
          > Prince Michael is a notable Freemason. As such, he is an enemy of
          > Russia and Orthodoxy. Freemasonry is the principal promoter of
          > the "New World Order".
          >
          > The comments about his physical resembance with Nicholas II are
          > ridiculous, but those about Putin's support are not.
          >
          > Below are a few websites.
          >
          > In God,
          >
          > Vladimir Kozyreff
          >
          >
          > Freemasonry in Russia has a really rich history. It is the heritage
          > of Russia, and world Masonry, as well.
          >
          > http://www.freemasonry.ru/index_e.html
          >
          > In his capacity as Grand Master, Prince Michael attended the Mark
          > Master Mason Annual Investiture Meeting at Freemasons Hall on
          Tuesday
          > 10th June (2003).
          >
          > http://www.princemichael.org.uk/diary/months/june_2003.html
          >
          > "It's been said that secret societies are a key component in the
          New
          > World Order and the largest of all is Freemasonry... Belief in a
          > supreme being is essential for initiates. That Supreme Being is
          > referred to as the "Great Architect of the Universe" ... Add to
          that
          > the feeling of being rather special because you have been let into
          > some little esoteric secrets of the craft to which the rest of
          > society (or the "profane" as non masons are referred to by
          initiates)
          > are not party, and its no wonder that Freemasonry has attracted so
          > many".
          >
          > In Britain, craft freemasonry is run from the United Grand Lodge of
          > England. It is to be found throughout the establishment, business
          and
          > the professions, particularly in the civil service, the legal
          > profession, police and the military.
          >
          > Its president is the Duke of Kent, which no doubt many would see as
          > giving an image of respectability to the whole thing. (Royalty have
          > long been associated with the craft, King George VI was an
          > enthusiastic mason, although Charles and Andrew have not been
          > initiated).
          >
          > http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=509
          >
          > Prince Michael of Kent, Brother of Grand Rank. Senior Grand
          Warden,
          > 1979.
          >
          > http://www.medusafile.com/freemasons.htm
          >
          > The Bilderbergers
          >
          > Major tentacle of the New World Order, responsible for selecting
          and
          > controlling the President of the United States and the Prime
          Minister
          > of Britain, amongst other activities.
          >
          > The Committee of 300
          >
          > Also known as the Olympians whose aim is to bring in the New World
          > Order, much of their philosophy is based on Malthus, who worked for
          > the East India Company and preached population control and limited
          > resources. It is this which led to their eugenics program and
          > suppression of technology which contradicts this thesis. To see the
          > program of the committee of 300, follow link to "Targets of the
          > Illuminati" here.or see :CONSPIRATORS' HIERARCHY THE STORY OF THE
          > COMMITTEE OF 300 or INDEX TO CONSPIRATORS' HIERARCHY THE STORY OF
          > THE COMMITTEE OF 300 or The Story of The Committee of 300
          >
          > The Freemasons
          >
          > Although friendly and sociable at the lower levels, do not
          > undersetimate the importance of freemasonry in the organisation of
          > the New World Order. Though charitable in the rank and file the
          > highest ranks of freemasonry are Satanic.
          >
          > The Council on Foreign Relations
          >
          > Powerful tool of the New World Order to implement its policies,
          > parallel secret government controlled by Rockefeller.
          >
          > The Trilateral Commission
          >
          > Launched by David Rockefeller and made public in 1973, consists of
          > invited financiers, industrialists, media moguls, union leaders and
          > politicians from North America, Western Europe and Japan, its
          agenda
          > is to control the course of international events and protect elite
          > interests.
          >
          > The Stanford Research Institute
          >
          > Applied social psychiatry used not therapeutically but to further
          the
          > aims of the New World Order through the club of Rome and the
          > encouragement of counter culture - Sex, Drugs and Rock'n'Roll. Many
          > of its secrets are still unavailable for public inspection.
          >
          > The Tavistock Institute
          >
          > The Tavistock Institute for Human Relations is the premier
          > brainwashing institute of the world, a high ranking organisation
          > under the Committee of 300 was given the job of implementing the
          300
          > Club objective of weakening the moral fibre which advocates the
          > breakup of the family, to keep people in a state of crisis and to
          > build up cults.
          >
          > Club of Rome
          >
          > Founded by Aurelio Peccei in 1968, one of their key functions is to
          > create and control economic recessions, the members are drawn from
          > the Black Nobility and Anglo-American financiers. It has its own
          > private intelligence agency and access to back-up from Interpol. It
          > has connecting links to Mossad, CIA, KGB and only the STASSI (the
          > former East-German secret service)was beyond their reach.[see:AMPP
          > The Systems Method Bilderberg and Club of Rome or CLUB OF ROME]
          >
          > http://www.medusafile.com/shame.htm
          >
          > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, byakimov@c... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > > Tsar
          >
          Michael?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > The following has been adapted and corrected from an article
          which
          > appeared in The Daily Mail
          > > of 9 April
          >
          2005.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > A proposal to place Prince Michael of Kent on the restored
          Russian
          > throne was made public
          > > yesterday. The bearded Prince Michael bears a striking
          resemblance
          > to his great uncle, the
          > > martyred last Tsar, Nicholas II, executed on Lenin’s orders in
          > 1918.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > The suggestion that the Prince become Tsar is from a senior
          Moscow
          > political analyst with
          > > links to the Kremlin. Stanislav Belkovsky claimed that a return
          of
          > the monarchy would help
          > > Russians to retain pride in their country at times when
          > politicians were discredited because
          > > of unpopular decisions or corruption. He said his idea had
          support
          > within the Kremlin among
          > > senior figures close to President V1adimir Putin. He claimed
          that
          > it was backed by ‘seven or
          > > eight people from the team which came to power with
          > Putin’.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > The New Izvestia newspaper, which mentioned several pretenders
          to
          > the throne, reported
          > > yesterday: ‘In the corridors of power, they seriously discuss
          > the monarchy project. This time
          > > it is almost entirely around the name of Prince Michael of
          > Kent’.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Belkovsky floated the idea of a figurehead monarchy along
          British
          > lines, or a less official
          > > role for a revived Romanov dynasty. A new Tsar would be a focus
          of
          > respect and would not be
          > > dented by changing political tides, he added. ‘Prince Michael
          is
          > a close relative of the
          > > Romanovs, so he has a formal right to claim the Romanov
          throne’,
          > he said. ‘Foreigners who came
          > > to power generally played a constructive role in Russian
          > history’.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Prince Michael speaks of his Russian heritage on his personal
          > website, which shows a family
          > > tree showing his links to the the Tsars. He is a frequent
          visitor
          > to Russia, where he is a
          > > popular figure. Elderly peasants, struck by his similarity to
          > Nicholas II, often fall to their
          > > knees in his presence. He is also a fluent Russian speaker, and
          > the proposal comes amid a
          > > growing debate about President Putin’s successor when his
          > second - and final - term ends in
          > >
          >
          2008.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Some supporters want the President, seen by many as increasingly
          > authoritarian, to tear up the
          > > constitution and run again. Others say that the head of state
          > should become a figurehead, with
          > > real power given to the prime minister, Such a move would permit
          > Putin to become a powerful
          > > premier, and technically would also allow for a figurehead
          > monarch. However, President Putin
          > > has insisted that the Russian constitution should not be
          > changed.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Belkovsky said that Prince Michael was not the only candidate
          for
          > Tsar. The Prince is a
          > > grandson of King George V, the last Tsar’s first cousin, and
          is
          > also related to Nicholas II
          > > through his mother Marina, who was the great grand-daughter of
          > Tsar Alexander III, Nicholas’s
          > > father. Prince Michael is also related to the martyred Tsarina
          > Alexandra, who was a
          > > granddaughter of Queen
          >
          Victoria.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Last night Prince Michael’s spokesman declined to comment on
          > this story.
        • orthodoxchurch_sg
          ... Christ is Risen! HRH Prince Michael of Kent is also a practising Anglican married to a divorced Roman Catholic. As my students would say ~ get real! God
          Message 4 of 21 , May 30 10:58 PM
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            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
            <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
            > Dear List,
            >
            > Prince Michael is a notable Freemason. As such, he is an enemy of
            > Russia and Orthodoxy.

            Christ is Risen!

            HRH Prince Michael of Kent is also a practising Anglican married to a
            divorced Roman Catholic.

            As my students would say ~ get real!

            God bless / Fr Daniel
          • Fr. John R. Shaw
            ... JRS: However, Tsar Peter III was living abroad and was a practicing Lutheran until he became ruler of Russia. The former German princes who became kings of
            Message 5 of 21 , May 31 4:30 AM
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              Fr. Daniel wrote:

              > Christ is Risen!
              >
              > HRH Prince Michael of Kent is also a practising Anglican married to a
              > divorced Roman Catholic.
              >
              > As my students would say ~ get real!

              JRS: However, Tsar Peter III was living abroad and was a practicing Lutheran until he became
              ruler of Russia. The former German princes who became kings of Bulgaria, Greece and
              Romania also were not Orthodox at the time of their accession.

              If Prince Michael really were going to accede to the Russian throne, I think it's a safe bet that
              he and his princess would return to Orthodoxy.

              In Christ
              Fr. John R. Shaw
            • gene703
              40 days of fasting, full confession, tripple full dippin orthodox baptism on TV and they be 100% OK in my book Gene T ... Christ is Risen! HRH Prince Michael
              Message 6 of 21 , May 31 7:26 AM
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                40 days of fasting, full confession, tripple full dippin' orthodox baptism on TV and they be 100% OK in my book

                Gene T

                orthodoxchurch_sg <orthodoxchurch_sg@...> wrote:
                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                > Dear List,
                >
                > Prince Michael is a notable Freemason. As such, he is an enemy of
                > Russia and Orthodoxy.

                Christ is Risen!

                HRH Prince Michael of Kent is also a practising Anglican married to a
                divorced Roman Catholic.

                As my students would say ~ get real!

                God bless / Fr Daniel




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              • Russell Martin
                Whatever the future might be for monarchy in Russia, it is worth pointing out that Russia still very much has a law of succession, promulgated in 1797 by the
                Message 7 of 21 , May 31 7:27 AM
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                  Whatever the future might be for monarchy in Russia, it is worth pointing out that Russia still very much has a law of succession, promulgated in 1797 by the Emperor Paul I, of blessed memory. I find it hard to disagree with Professor Prince Kirill Tumanov when he wrote: "Monarchy...is inseparable from Legitimacy. Legitimacy, in turn, means Legality, the faithful observance of both the spirit and letter of the Law. Law, finally, is above and independent of human practice. Thus, Monarchical Legitimitism (sic) must survive historical adversities and the inalienable rights of a dynasty must continue to exist irrespective of whether that dynasty actually rules or has been forcibly prevented by history circumstances from holding power" ("Foreword" to _Succession to the Imperial Throne of Russia_, ed. Archbishop Antonii of Los Angeles and Southern California, trans. Kirill Tumanov, 1894).

                  The Pauline Law has, to be sure, been a battleground for monarchists since 1918. Some, like me, read it as clearly and unmistakeably identifying the current legal claimant: HIH Grand Duchess Mariia Vladimirovna. Others use it to discredit her claims, then promptly ignore it afterward in order to prop up their own candidate, the pseudo-Romanov, "Prince" Nicholas, whom the law clearly disqualifies.

                  Russia already has a legal claimant to the vacant throne: Grand Duchess Mariia. Her father, Grand Duke Vladimir, and grandfather, "Emperor" Kirill Vladimirovich, have lived in exile over the course of the 20th century with only one goal in mind: service to Russia. Their self-sacrifice; their personal piety; their close relationship with Church Abroad, and, since the fall of Communism, the MP; their labors to keep the Romanov dynasty alive; the support they (Kirill and Vladimir) had from St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco (who was an expert himself on succession matters)--all this, and much more, compiles into a historical record that makes the 20th century truly one of the brightest moments in the history of the dynasty.

                  But if one were to disqualify Her Imperial Highness--something that would be illegitimate, in my view--then there are other legal heirs to the throne still out there. To be clear, the last Romanovs are: Grand Duchess Mariia, her mother, son, and distant relative, Princess Catherine Ioannovna (b. 1915). All others are not legally "Romanovs" on account of their descent from the morganatic marriages of their Romanov ancestors. The Pauline law regulates not only succession to the throne but membership in the dynasty; and according to it, these so-called "Romanovs" are not dynasts and have no rights to the succession whatsoever. So, to disqualify HIH Mariia is, in point of fact, to end the Romanov dynasty.

                  However, if one did for the sake of argument disqualify her, one of the heirs would undoubtedly be Prince Michael of Kent--but not before others had their crack at the throne: The House of Karageorgevich of Serbia, The House of Toerring; and the House of Windsor (in the branch of it called the House of Kent). Alas, Prince Michael of Kent contracted a morganatic marriage (his wife is not royalty, but a baroness) and so his son, Prince Frederick, could not succeed to the throne any more than the so-called "Prince" Nicholas "Romanov" could.

                  Of course, when the succession leaves the House of Romanov it falls on other royal lines and some of these may not be Orthodox (the exception is the House of Karageorgevich, which is). Prince Michael could inherit the throne--after the Houses of Karageorgevich and Toerring had renounced it--but would have to convert to Orthodoxy before doing so. And even if he did convert, the succession after him would remain an open question because of the unequalness (un-Ebenbuetigkeit) of his marriage and the resulting ineligibility of his children to succeed.

                  There are many positive outcomes one can easily imagine from a restoration of the monarchy in Russia. One of these surely must be a return to the rule of law. A monarchy founded on firm legal foundations may endure longer and rule more successfully than one installed as a bulwark against some imagined and fabled diabolical international conspiracy.

                  Roman Martin

                  Russell E. Martin
                  Assoc. Professor of History
                  Westminster College
                  New Wilmington, PA 16172-0001
                  phone: 724.946.6254
                  fax: 724.946.7256
                  webpage: http://www.westminster.edu/staff/martinre/
                  other email: remartin@...
                • vkozyreff
                  Dear List, I wrote (message 14143): In Russia, Emperor Peter III served as grand master of the Russian grand lodge, which was organized in St. Petersburg in
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 31 7:58 AM
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                    Dear List,

                    I wrote (message 14143): "In Russia, Emperor Peter III served as
                    grand master of the Russian grand lodge, which was organized in St.
                    Petersburg in 1771".

                    Somebody just reminded me that Peter III was assassinated in 1762.
                    The apparent contradiction is explained as follows:

                    "In 1771 the Engraved Lists of the Grand Lodge of England recorded as
                    #414 their first lodge in Russia -- Perfect Union (or Peace and
                    Union) in St. Petersburg. It should be emphasised, however, that
                    although this Lodge had been entered on these lists at the date of
                    the granting of its Constitution (1 June 1771), it had been active in
                    Russia prior to that date".

                    http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/freemasonry/russianfm.html

                    In God,

                    Vladimir Kozyreff



                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                    <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                    > Dear List,
                    >
                    > Is there such a thing as world conspiracy? It would be too easy to
                    > dismiss its existence and to accuse those who point at it of
                    > searching excuses for their own failures (among which the "Russian"
                    > revolution).
                    >
                    > A conspiracy is a secret agreement between two or more people to
                    > perform an unlawful act. Is the Antichrist not a conspiracy? Was
                    the
                    > Komintern not a conspiracy? Is Freeemasonry not a conspiracy?
                    >
                    > In Russia, Emperor Peter III served as grand master of the Russian
                    > grand lodge, which was organized in St. Petersburg in 1771.
                    Catherin
                    > II did not ban the lodges, but she showed the gentlemen freemasons
                    > that she could not approve of their membership of the order, as a
                    > result of which the masonic works were limited. Paul I banned the
                    > lodges and in 1803. Alexander I permitted them again. He was a
                    > freemason himself first. Condemned by the Russian Orthodox Church,
                    > masonry was later banned by Alexander I in 1822. Nicholas I renewed
                    > the prohibition of freemasonry in 1826. Now, it is flourishing
                    again
                    > in Russia.
                    >
                    > (See: http://www.freemasonry.ru/index_e.html).
                    >
                    > I said, in message 14115, that it would be nice if our "democratic
                    > leaders" were independant and not under the influence of unelected
                    > influence groups or people. The Trilateral Commission is one of
                    them.
                    >
                    > Let us not forget about the political meaning and context of the
                    > projected ROCOR-MP union.
                    >
                    > Since there are now rumours about Prince Michael of Kent being
                    > approached to reign over Russia, and since many think we can share
                    > the US government joys and sorrows, I think it is useful to mention
                    > some of a Trilateral Commission's leader's thinking, below.
                    >
                    > Note how close the US and USSR leadership were. It is wrong to
                    > assimilate the ROCOR with the US, to think that resisting the MP is
                    > resisting Russia, or to think that opposing the MP is supporting
                    any
                    > US policy.
                    >
                    > In God,
                    >
                    > Vladimir Kozyreff
                    >
                    > The roots of the Trilateral Commission (TC) stem from a book
                    Between
                    > Two Ages written by Zbigniew Brzezinski in 1970 while he was a
                    > professor at Columbia University in New York City. David
                    Rockefeller
                    > read the book and was impressed with its contents. The book
                    inspired
                    > Rockefeller to create the TC.
                    >
                    > · In July 1972, 8 members of CFR, among whom were David Rockefeller
                    > and Zbigniew Brzezinski founded the Trilateral Commission. The
                    > Commission's purpose is to engineer an enduring partnership among
                    the
                    > ruling classes of North America, Western Europe, and Japan -- hence
                    > the term 'Trilateral' -- in an attempt to influence public opinions
                    > and government decision-makings in such a way that the peoples,
                    > governments and economies of all nations must serve the needs of
                    > multinational banks and corporations. To achieve this,
                    Trilateralists
                    > must manage both dependence and democracy -- at home and abroad.
                    >
                    > In other words, they must reduce the mass to dependency and
                    suppress
                    > democracy and any voice of protest through control and
                    surveillance.
                    > The ultimate aim would be to establish an one-world economy, one-
                    > world government, one-world monetary system, and one-world
                    religion.
                    > The following excerpts from official TC's documents, together with
                    > writings and speeches of founding members will confirm this.
                    >
                    > · Since Brzezinski, who became the Trilateral Commission's founding
                    > executive director, provides the rationale for the creation of TC,
                    we
                    > would like to further examine the ideas contained in his book
                    Between
                    > Two Ages (p. 300):
                    >
                    > o "Though Stalinism may have been a needless tragedy for both the
                    > Russian people and communism as an ideal, there is the
                    intellectually
                    > tantalizing possibility that for the world at large it was, as we
                    > shall see, a blessing in disguise." (Note: Stalin had massacred at
                    > least 20 million people and here Brzezinski praises the ideology of
                    > this mass murderer.)
                    >
                    > o "Marxism represents a further vital and creative stage in the
                    > maturing of man's universal vision. Marxism is simultaneously a
                    > victory of the external man over the inner, passive man and a
                    victory
                    > of reason over belief." (Note: he believes in the god of reason.)
                    >
                    > o "In the absence of social consensus society's emotional and
                    > rational needs may be fused -- mass media makes this easier to
                    > achieve -- in the person of an individual who is seen as...making
                    the
                    > necessary innovations in the social order." (Note: he calls for a
                    > charismatic individual who can change the social order, i.e. the
                    Anti-
                    > Christ.)
                    >
                    > o "Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to
                    > political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific know-
                    how.
                    > Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this
                    > elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by the
                    latest
                    > modern techniques for influencing public behavior and keeping
                    society
                    > under close surveillance and control."
                    >
                    > o "Movement toward such a community (of developed nations)... would
                    > involve the forging of community links among the United States,
                    > Western Europe, and Japan (a Trilateral Commission stated
                    > objective)."
                    >
                    > o "Though the objective of shaping a community of the developed
                    > nations is less ambitious than the goal of world government, it is
                    > more attainable."
                    >
                    > o "The Soviet Union could have emerged as the standard-bearer of
                    this
                    > century's most influential system of thought and as the social
                    model
                    > for resolving the key dilemmas facing modern man."
                    >
                    > o Marxism "supplied the best available insight into contemporary
                    > reality. Marxist theory [is] this century's most infuential system
                    of
                    > thought."
                    >
                    > o 'The approaching 200th anniversary of the Declaration of
                    > Independence could justify the call for a national Constitutional
                    > convention to reexamine the nation's formal institutional
                    framework."
                    >
                    > http://www.cephasministry.com/history_of_masonry_6.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                    > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                    > > Dear List,
                    > >
                    > > Prince Michael is a notable Freemason. As such, he is an enemy of
                    > > Russia and Orthodoxy. Freemasonry is the principal promoter of
                    > > the "New World Order".
                    > >
                    > > The comments about his physical resembance with Nicholas II are
                    > > ridiculous, but those about Putin's support are not.
                    > >
                    > > Below are a few websites.
                    > >
                    > > In God,
                    > >
                    > > Vladimir Kozyreff
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Freemasonry in Russia has a really rich history. It is the
                    heritage
                    > > of Russia, and world Masonry, as well.
                    > >
                    > > http://www.freemasonry.ru/index_e.html
                    > >
                    > > In his capacity as Grand Master, Prince Michael attended the Mark
                    > > Master Mason Annual Investiture Meeting at Freemasons Hall on
                    > Tuesday
                    > > 10th June (2003).
                    > >
                    > > http://www.princemichael.org.uk/diary/months/june_2003.html
                    > >
                    > > "It's been said that secret societies are a key component in the
                    > New
                    > > World Order and the largest of all is Freemasonry... Belief in a
                    > > supreme being is essential for initiates. That Supreme Being is
                    > > referred to as the "Great Architect of the Universe" ... Add to
                    > that
                    > > the feeling of being rather special because you have been let
                    into
                    > > some little esoteric secrets of the craft to which the rest of
                    > > society (or the "profane" as non masons are referred to by
                    > initiates)
                    > > are not party, and its no wonder that Freemasonry has attracted
                    so
                    > > many".
                    > >
                    > > In Britain, craft freemasonry is run from the United Grand Lodge
                    of
                    > > England. It is to be found throughout the establishment, business
                    > and
                    > > the professions, particularly in the civil service, the legal
                    > > profession, police and the military.
                    > >
                    > > Its president is the Duke of Kent, which no doubt many would see
                    as
                    > > giving an image of respectability to the whole thing. (Royalty
                    have
                    > > long been associated with the craft, King George VI was an
                    > > enthusiastic mason, although Charles and Andrew have not been
                    > > initiated).
                    > >
                    > > http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=509
                    > >
                    > > Prince Michael of Kent, Brother of Grand Rank. Senior Grand
                    > Warden,
                    > > 1979.
                    > >
                    > > http://www.medusafile.com/freemasons.htm
                    > >
                    > > The Bilderbergers
                    > >
                    > > Major tentacle of the New World Order, responsible for selecting
                    > and
                    > > controlling the President of the United States and the Prime
                    > Minister
                    > > of Britain, amongst other activities.
                    > >
                    > > The Committee of 300
                    > >
                    > > Also known as the Olympians whose aim is to bring in the New
                    World
                    > > Order, much of their philosophy is based on Malthus, who worked
                    for
                    > > the East India Company and preached population control and
                    limited
                    > > resources. It is this which led to their eugenics program and
                    > > suppression of technology which contradicts this thesis. To see
                    the
                    > > program of the committee of 300, follow link to "Targets of the
                    > > Illuminati" here.or see :CONSPIRATORS' HIERARCHY THE STORY OF THE
                    > > COMMITTEE OF 300 or INDEX TO CONSPIRATORS' HIERARCHY THE STORY
                    OF
                    > > THE COMMITTEE OF 300 or The Story of The Committee of 300
                    > >
                    > > The Freemasons
                    > >
                    > > Although friendly and sociable at the lower levels, do not
                    > > undersetimate the importance of freemasonry in the organisation
                    of
                    > > the New World Order. Though charitable in the rank and file the
                    > > highest ranks of freemasonry are Satanic.
                    > >
                    > > The Council on Foreign Relations
                    > >
                    > > Powerful tool of the New World Order to implement its policies,
                    > > parallel secret government controlled by Rockefeller.
                    > >
                    > > The Trilateral Commission
                    > >
                    > > Launched by David Rockefeller and made public in 1973, consists
                    of
                    > > invited financiers, industrialists, media moguls, union leaders
                    and
                    > > politicians from North America, Western Europe and Japan, its
                    > agenda
                    > > is to control the course of international events and protect
                    elite
                    > > interests.
                    > >
                    > > The Stanford Research Institute
                    > >
                    > > Applied social psychiatry used not therapeutically but to further
                    > the
                    > > aims of the New World Order through the club of Rome and the
                    > > encouragement of counter culture - Sex, Drugs and Rock'n'Roll.
                    Many
                    > > of its secrets are still unavailable for public inspection.
                    > >
                    > > The Tavistock Institute
                    > >
                    > > The Tavistock Institute for Human Relations is the premier
                    > > brainwashing institute of the world, a high ranking organisation
                    > > under the Committee of 300 was given the job of implementing the
                    > 300
                    > > Club objective of weakening the moral fibre which advocates the
                    > > breakup of the family, to keep people in a state of crisis and to
                    > > build up cults.
                    > >
                    > > Club of Rome
                    > >
                    > > Founded by Aurelio Peccei in 1968, one of their key functions is
                    to
                    > > create and control economic recessions, the members are drawn
                    from
                    > > the Black Nobility and Anglo-American financiers. It has its own
                    > > private intelligence agency and access to back-up from Interpol.
                    It
                    > > has connecting links to Mossad, CIA, KGB and only the STASSI (the
                    > > former East-German secret service)was beyond their reach.
                    [see:AMPP
                    > > The Systems Method Bilderberg and Club of Rome or CLUB OF ROME]
                    > >
                    > > http://www.medusafile.com/shame.htm
                    > >
                    > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, byakimov@c... wrote:
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > Tsar
                    > >
                    >
                    Michael?
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > The following has been adapted and corrected from an article
                    > which
                    > > appeared in The Daily Mail
                    > > > of 9 April
                    > >
                    >
                    2005.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > A proposal to place Prince Michael of Kent on the restored
                    > Russian
                    > > throne was made public
                    > > > yesterday. The bearded Prince Michael bears a striking
                    > resemblance
                    > > to his great uncle, the
                    > > > martyred last Tsar, Nicholas II, executed on Lenin’s orders
                    in
                    > > 1918.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > The suggestion that the Prince become Tsar is from a senior
                    > Moscow
                    > > political analyst with
                    > > > links to the Kremlin. Stanislav Belkovsky claimed that a
                    return
                    > of
                    > > the monarchy would help
                    > > > Russians to retain pride in their country at times when
                    > > politicians were discredited because
                    > > > of unpopular decisions or corruption. He said his idea had
                    > support
                    > > within the Kremlin among
                    > > > senior figures close to President V1adimir Putin. He claimed
                    > that
                    > > it was backed by ‘seven or
                    > > > eight people from the team which came to power with
                    > > Putin’.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > The New Izvestia newspaper, which mentioned several pretenders
                    > to
                    > > the throne, reported
                    > > > yesterday: ‘In the corridors of power, they seriously
                    discuss
                    > > the monarchy project. This time
                    > > > it is almost entirely around the name of Prince Michael of
                    > > Kent’.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > Belkovsky floated the idea of a figurehead monarchy along
                    > British
                    > > lines, or a less official
                    > > > role for a revived Romanov dynasty. A new Tsar would be a
                    focus
                    > of
                    > > respect and would not be
                    > > > dented by changing political tides, he added. ‘Prince
                    Michael
                    > is
                    > > a close relative of the
                    > > > Romanovs, so he has a formal right to claim the Romanov
                    > throne’,
                    > > he said. ‘Foreigners who came
                    > > > to power generally played a constructive role in Russian
                    > > history’.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > Prince Michael speaks of his Russian heritage on his personal
                    > > website, which shows a family
                    > > > tree showing his links to the the Tsars. He is a frequent
                    > visitor
                    > > to Russia, where he is a
                    > > > popular figure. Elderly peasants, struck by his similarity to
                    > > Nicholas II, often fall to their
                    > > > knees in his presence. He is also a fluent Russian speaker,
                    and
                    > > the proposal comes amid a
                    > > > growing debate about President Putin’s successor when his
                    > > second - and final - term ends in
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    2008.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > Some supporters want the President, seen by many as
                    increasingly
                    > > authoritarian, to tear up the
                    > > > constitution and run again. Others say that the head of state
                    > > should become a figurehead, with
                    > > > real power given to the prime minister, Such a move would
                    permit
                    > > Putin to become a powerful
                    > > > premier, and technically would also allow for a figurehead
                    > > monarch. However, President Putin
                    > > > has insisted that the Russian constitution should not be
                    > > changed.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > Belkovsky said that Prince Michael was not the only candidate
                    > for
                    > > Tsar. The Prince is a
                    > > > grandson of King George V, the last Tsar’s first cousin, and
                    > is
                    > > also related to Nicholas II
                    > > > through his mother Marina, who was the great grand-daughter of
                    > > Tsar Alexander III, Nicholas’s
                    > > > father. Prince Michael is also related to the martyred Tsarina
                    > > Alexandra, who was a
                    > > > granddaughter of Queen
                    > >
                    >
                    Victoria.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > Last night Prince Michael’s spokesman declined to comment on
                    > > this story.
                  • vkozyreff
                    Dear List, Many Russians do not share such an enthusiasm for this line. We never saw them in our struggle against communism and in defence of our Church or
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 31 10:20 AM
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                      Dear List,

                      Many Russians do not share such an enthusiasm for this line. We never
                      saw them in our struggle against communism and in defence of our
                      Church or national honour. We deeply resented their abandoning the
                      ROCOR, courting (as many Russian nobles do) Sobchak and other former
                      communists in search of legitimacy, and being courted in the West by
                      a rather mundane entourage.

                      Of course, the red flag was already theirs in 1917, which was a poor
                      debut. See message 6238 from Father A. Lebedeff: "And he (Met
                      Sergius) was certainly not alone in praising the Provisional
                      Government after the February Revolution--a great many hierarchs (and
                      a great many of the nobility, including several Grand Dukes) jumped
                      on that bandwagon, as well, some of the Grand Dukes even wearing red
                      armbands (Kirill Vladimirovich,for example)".

                      In this family too, there is a strange marriage (Princess Leonida
                      Bagration Mukhranskaya, Widow of Jewish businessman Kirby) and there
                      are divorces. I am far from a specialist in dynastic succession
                      right, but the legitimacy of Prince George of Hohenzollern (the son
                      of Princess Maria Vladimirovna) as pretendent to the throne is known
                      as being disputed. I think even that some claim he is not more
                      entitled than his father to be called "Grand Duke".

                      The line is inunspriring also from the fact that Grand Duke Kyrill,
                      then military governor of St Petersburg, hoisted the red flag on his
                      house in 1917 (a few years ago, I visited this house on the Neva
                      embankment, when it was rented for a day by my firm for a
                      conference).

                      Below is an unfavourable dynsastic discussion. I know there are
                      others, more favourable, for instance:

                      http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/gotha/russuclw.htm

                      In God,

                      Vladimir Kozyreff

                      "The late Prince Vladimir Kirillovich of Russia had a significant
                      claim to be head of the Imperial House. The main argument against him
                      was that his fathers mother the Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna was not
                      a member of the Russian Orthodox Church at the time of the Grand Duke
                      Kirill's birth. Apart from various other conditions the heir to the
                      throne of Russia must be the issue of Russian Orthodox parents.

                      Furthermore, criticism has been often levelled whether justly or not
                      at the Grand Duke Kirill with regard to his breaking the oath of
                      allegiance to the Emperor Nicholas II in 1917 and his assumption of
                      the imperial title in 1924 which was against the express wishes of
                      the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna.

                      Nonetheless genealogically speaking with the death of the Grand Duke
                      Kirill his son Prince Vladimir Kirillovich was the senior male and as
                      such head of the family. Since his death, however, his daughter's
                      assertion that she is now head of the family is false and wholly
                      unjustifiable. Neither she nor Prince Vladimir Kirillovich were
                      entitled to the self appointed rank of Grand Duke nor is Prince
                      Vladimir's widow...

                      In 1948 Prince Vladimir Kirillovich contracted a marriage with
                      Leonida Kirby, divorced wife and widow of Sumner Moore Kirby. She was
                      born Leonida Georgievna Princess Bagration-Mukhransky. It was claimed
                      by Prince Vladimir Kirillovich that his wife was of equal rank as a
                      descendent of the early Kings of Georgia. However, this claim is
                      obviously incorrect and inconsistent.

                      This is proven by the marriage of Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of
                      Russia to Prince Constantine Bagration-Mukhransky a cousin of
                      Princess Leonida in 1911. If in 1911 the Bagration-Mukhransky family
                      was not considered of equal rank why should have been such in 1948?
                      Their claim to headship of the Royal House of Georgia which had
                      anyway passed to the Emperor of Russia is based on the possible but
                      not certain extinction of the House of Grouzinsky in 1931.

                      Furthermore, the House of Grouszinsky itself was not recognized in
                      Imperial Russia as being of equal rank to the Imperial Family.
                      Therefore, Prince Vladimir Kirillovich's claim for his wife's equal
                      rank is incorrect and rather more wishful thinking than fact. Indeed,
                      if the Bagration-Mukhansky's claim to equal rank as descendants of
                      the early Kings of Georgia is given credence this would also pertain
                      to various wives of the later Princes of Russia such as the
                      Galitzines who themselves are of royal descent. It must be obvious
                      from the above that this is not the case.

                      Accordingly, Prince Vladimir Kirillovich's further claim that his
                      daughter is his heir is not viable. Prince Vladimir Kirillovich being
                      a great grandson of a ruling Emperor contracted a marriage with an
                      individual of a good standing and his daughter Princess Maria
                      Vladimirovna is accordingly a Princess of Russia but follows in the
                      line of succession after all the Princes of the blood.

                      Prince Vladimir Kirillovich's appointment of his son in law Prince
                      Franz Wilhelm of Prussia as a Russian Grand Duke verges on the
                      farcical and it is interesting to note that since Prince Franz
                      Wilhelm and Princess Maria Vladimirovna's divorce, Prince Franz
                      Wilhelm has reverted to his correct rank of Prince of Prussia. Their
                      son Prince George of Prussia is a member of the Imperial House of
                      Hohenzollern and certainly not a member of the Imperial House of
                      Romanov.

                      In accordance with the laws of succession to the Imperial House of
                      Russia the undisputed head of the family is His Highness Prince
                      Nicholas Romanovich, son of the late Prince Roman Petrovich and
                      Grandson of the Grand Duke Peter Nikolaievich. He is also chairman of
                      the Romanov Family Association to whom all members of the Imperial
                      Family of Russia, with the exception of Princess Maria Vladimirovna".

                      bhttp://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/royalty/russia/suc.htmlel
                      ong.


                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Martin"
                      <MartinRE@w...> wrote:
                      > Whatever the future might be for monarchy in Russia, it is worth
                      pointing out that Russia still very much has a law of succession,
                      promulgated in 1797 by the Emperor Paul I, of blessed memory. I find
                      it hard to disagree with Professor Prince Kirill Tumanov when he
                      wrote: "Monarchy...is inseparable from Legitimacy. Legitimacy, in
                      turn, means Legality, the faithful observance of both the spirit and
                      letter of the Law. Law, finally, is above and independent of human
                      practice. Thus, Monarchical Legitimitism (sic) must survive
                      historical adversities and the inalienable rights of a dynasty must
                      continue to exist irrespective of whether that dynasty actually rules
                      or has been forcibly prevented by history circumstances from holding
                      power" ("Foreword" to _Succession to the Imperial Throne of Russia_,
                      ed. Archbishop Antonii of Los Angeles and Southern California, trans.
                      Kirill Tumanov, 1894).
                      >
                      > The Pauline Law has, to be sure, been a battleground for
                      monarchists since 1918. Some, like me, read it as clearly and
                      unmistakeably identifying the current legal claimant: HIH Grand
                      Duchess Mariia Vladimirovna. Others use it to discredit her claims,
                      then promptly ignore it afterward in order to prop up their own
                      candidate, the pseudo-Romanov, "Prince" Nicholas, whom the law
                      clearly disqualifies.
                      >
                      > Russia already has a legal claimant to the vacant throne: Grand
                      Duchess Mariia. Her father, Grand Duke Vladimir, and
                      grandfather, "Emperor" Kirill Vladimirovich, have lived in exile over
                      the course of the 20th century with only one goal in mind: service
                      to Russia. Their self-sacrifice; their personal piety; their close
                      relationship with Church Abroad, and, since the fall of Communism,
                      the MP; their labors to keep the Romanov dynasty alive; the support
                      they (Kirill and Vladimir) had from St. John of Shanghai and San
                      Francisco (who was an expert himself on succession matters)--all
                      this, and much more, compiles into a historical record that makes the
                      20th century truly one of the brightest moments in the history of the
                      dynasty.
                      >
                      > But if one were to disqualify Her Imperial Highness--something that
                      would be illegitimate, in my view--then there are other legal heirs
                      to the throne still out there. To be clear, the last Romanovs are:
                      Grand Duchess Mariia, her mother, son, and distant relative, Princess
                      Catherine Ioannovna (b. 1915). All others are not legally "Romanovs"
                      on account of their descent from the morganatic marriages of their
                      Romanov ancestors. The Pauline law regulates not only succession to
                      the throne but membership in the dynasty; and according to it, these
                      so-called "Romanovs" are not dynasts and have no rights to the
                      succession whatsoever. So, to disqualify HIH Mariia is, in point of
                      fact, to end the Romanov dynasty.
                      >
                      > However, if one did for the sake of argument disqualify her, one of
                      the heirs would undoubtedly be Prince Michael of Kent--but not before
                      others had their crack at the throne: The House of Karageorgevich of
                      Serbia, The House of Toerring; and the House of Windsor (in the
                      branch of it called the House of Kent). Alas, Prince Michael of Kent
                      contracted a morganatic marriage (his wife is not royalty, but a
                      baroness) and so his son, Prince Frederick, could not succeed to the
                      throne any more than the so-called "Prince" Nicholas "Romanov" could.
                      >
                      > Of course, when the succession leaves the House of Romanov it falls
                      on other royal lines and some of these may not be Orthodox (the
                      exception is the House of Karageorgevich, which is). Prince Michael
                      could inherit the throne--after the Houses of Karageorgevich and
                      Toerring had renounced it--but would have to convert to Orthodoxy
                      before doing so. And even if he did convert, the succession after
                      him would remain an open question because of the unequalness (un-
                      Ebenbuetigkeit) of his marriage and the resulting ineligibility of
                      his children to succeed.
                      >
                      > There are many positive outcomes one can easily imagine from a
                      restoration of the monarchy in Russia. One of these surely must be a
                      return to the rule of law. A monarchy founded on firm legal
                      foundations may endure longer and rule more successfully than one
                      installed as a bulwark against some imagined and fabled diabolical
                      international conspiracy.
                      >
                      > Roman Martin
                      >
                      > Russell E. Martin
                      > Assoc. Professor of History
                      > Westminster College
                      > New Wilmington, PA 16172-0001
                      > phone: 724.946.6254
                      > fax: 724.946.7256
                      > webpage: http://www.westminster.edu/staff/martinre/
                      > other email: remartin@p...
                    • Fr. John R. Shaw
                      XB! ... 100% OK in my book JRS: But what is your book ? In Christ Fr. John R. Shaw
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 31 1:58 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        XB!

                        Gene T wrote:

                        > 40 days of fasting, full confession, tripple full dippin' orthodox baptism on TV and they be
                        100% OK in my book

                        JRS: But what is "your book"?

                        In Christ
                        Fr. John R. Shaw
                      • gene703
                        Fr. John R. Shaw wrote - what is your book ? I am your average orthodox prihozhanin , in church once a month + major holidays, can recite Otche Nash from
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 31 4:44 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Fr. John R. Shaw wrote - what is "your book"? >>

                          I am your average orthodox "prihozhanin", in church once a month + major holidays, can recite Otche Nash from memory, can read church Slavonic, understand at leat 10% of what is said during liturgy, donated a little over $1000 in 2004 according to the tax form, hate lying unrepentant commies pretending to be something else, sometimes read Bible before going to sleep ( a habbit picked up down south from a roommate ), children baptized by father + Mitrofan from Sea Cliff ( we were so prowd when he made a Bishop ) Well, that's about if for my book.

                          Seriously, the man is of a direct royal blood, related to Nicholas II on BOTH sides of his family, most certantly has excellent manners, not a thief which is saying a lot about any current or future Russian official plus his cousin Charles, who likes to spend so much time on Afon, can quickly fill him in on all things Orthodox. He woun't be the first non-russian to assume the throne, Nicholas II himself was less that 10% Russian but no one can say he was a bad Orthodox / Pravoslavniy. Plus Michael really looks like Tzar's relative and he really is, while the nearest young ablebodied "russian" pretender to the throne the son of Madame Kulikova-Romanova looks like "cheniaviy" georgian/armenian watermellon seller on a Moscow bazar.

                          So, Long Live Tsar Michael !!! Under the surcumstances we really can't do better that that.

                          Gene T

                          "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
                          XB!

                          Gene T wrote:

                          > 40 days of fasting, full confession, tripple full dippin' orthodox baptism on TV and they be
                          100% OK in my book

                          JRS: But what is "your book"?

                          In Christ
                          Fr. John R. Shaw



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                        • Fr. Alexis Duncan
                          I see that the book is the abridged version. :) _________________________________________________ Fr. Alexis Duncan Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 31 5:34 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I see that the book is the abridged version. :)

                            _________________________________________________
                            Fr. Alexis Duncan
                            Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
                            Atlanta, GA
                            www.orthodoxinfo.biz

                            > Fr. John R. Shaw wrote - what is "your book"? >>
                            >
                            > I am your average orthodox "prihozhanin", in
                            > church once a month + major holidays, can recite
                            > Otche Nash from memory, can read church Slavonic,
                            > understand at leat 10% of what is said during
                            > liturgy, donated a little over $1000 in 2004
                            > according to the tax form, hate lying unrepentant
                            > commies pretending to be something else,
                            > sometimes read Bible before going to sleep ( a
                            > habbit picked up down south from a roommate ),
                            > children baptized by father + Mitrofan from Sea
                            > Cliff ( we were so prowd when he made a Bishop )
                            > Well, that's about if for my book.
                          • Stephen/Στέφανος
                            Kriste Aghsdga! While I am in no way in favor of a Freemason New-World-Order Tsar Michael........ I find your comment georgian/armenian watermellon
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 31 8:37 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Kriste Aghsdga!

                              While I am in no way in favor of a Freemason "New-World-Order" Tsar
                              Michael........ I find your comment "georgian/armenian watermellon
                              seller on a Moscow bazar" very racists and bigoted. The Georgians
                              are some of the most attractive people God has put on earth...... with
                              their dark hair; olive skin; blue, green or hazel almond-shaped eyes,
                              etc. Or perhaps you prefer "pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle-puffs" that
                              look like the former King George of England??

                              Stephanos


                              gene703 wrote:

                              > Fr. John R. Shaw wrote - what is "your book"? >>
                              >
                              > I am your average orthodox "prihozhanin", in church once a month +
                              > major holidays, can recite Otche Nash from memory, can read church
                              > Slavonic, understand at leat 10% of what is said during liturgy,
                              > donated a little over $1000 in 2004 according to the tax form, hate
                              > lying unrepentant commies pretending to be something else, sometimes
                              > read Bible before going to sleep ( a habbit picked up down south from
                              > a roommate ), children baptized by father + Mitrofan from Sea Cliff (
                              > we were so prowd when he made a Bishop ) Well, that's about if for my
                              > book.
                              >
                              > Seriously, the man is of a direct royal blood, related to Nicholas II
                              > on BOTH sides of his family, most certantly has excellent manners, not
                              > a thief which is saying a lot about any current or future Russian
                              > official plus his cousin Charles, who likes to spend so much time on
                              > Afon, can quickly fill him in on all things Orthodox. He woun't be the
                              > first non-russian to assume the throne, Nicholas II himself was less
                              > that 10% Russian but no one can say he was a bad Orthodox /
                              > Pravoslavniy. Plus Michael really looks like Tzar's relative and he
                              > really is, while the nearest young ablebodied "russian" pretender to
                              > the throne the son of Madame Kulikova-Romanova looks like "cheniaviy"
                              > georgian/armenian watermellon seller on a Moscow bazar.
                              >
                              > So, Long Live Tsar Michael !!! Under the surcumstances we really
                              > can't do better that that.
                              >
                              > Gene T
                              >
                              > "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
                              > XB!
                              >
                              > Gene T wrote:
                              >
                              > > 40 days of fasting, full confession, tripple full dippin' orthodox
                              > baptism on TV and they be
                              > 100% OK in my book
                              >
                              > JRS: But what is "your book"?
                              >
                              > In Christ
                              > Fr. John R. Shaw
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • gene703
                              Stephen said very racists and bigoted Gene T said OK, you are right, I shouldn t get down on the dark and the olive colored, all I can say in my defence
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 31 9:28 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Stephen said >> very racists and bigoted

                                Gene T said >> OK, you are right, I shouldn't get down on the dark and the olive colored, all I can say in my defence is that Russia already had it's fill of Georgian rulers for the next couple of hundred years and right now could use someone with better manners and pedegree to defend the Faith so to speak. Once again a apoligize if my comment seemed racist in any way and yes I do appreciate "pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle-puffs" consorts very much but it's not a proper subject for discussion on an orthodox forum I am afraid :-)




                                Stephen/Στέφανος <sbuatl@...> wrote:
                                Kriste Aghsdga!

                                While I am in no way in favor of a Freemason "New-World-Order" Tsar
                                Michael........ I find your comment "georgian/armenian watermellon
                                seller on a Moscow bazar" very racists and bigoted. The Georgians
                                are some of the most attractive people God has put on earth...... with
                                their dark hair; olive skin; blue, green or hazel almond-shaped eyes,
                                etc. Or perhaps you prefer "pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle-puffs" that
                                look like the former King George of England??

                                Stephanos


                                gene703 wrote:

                                > Fr. John R. Shaw wrote - what is "your book"? >>
                                >
                                > I am your average orthodox "prihozhanin", in church once a month +
                                > major holidays, can recite Otche Nash from memory, can read church
                                > Slavonic, understand at leat 10% of what is said during liturgy,
                                > donated a little over $1000 in 2004 according to the tax form, hate
                                > lying unrepentant commies pretending to be something else, sometimes
                                > read Bible before going to sleep ( a habbit picked up down south from
                                > a roommate ), children baptized by father + Mitrofan from Sea Cliff (
                                > we were so prowd when he made a Bishop ) Well, that's about if for my
                                > book.
                                >
                                > Seriously, the man is of a direct royal blood, related to Nicholas II
                                > on BOTH sides of his family, most certantly has excellent manners, not
                                > a thief which is saying a lot about any current or future Russian
                                > official plus his cousin Charles, who likes to spend so much time on
                                > Afon, can quickly fill him in on all things Orthodox. He woun't be the
                                > first non-russian to assume the throne, Nicholas II himself was less
                                > that 10% Russian but no one can say he was a bad Orthodox /
                                > Pravoslavniy. Plus Michael really looks like Tzar's relative and he
                                > really is, while the nearest young ablebodied "russian" pretender to
                                > the throne the son of Madame Kulikova-Romanova looks like "cheniaviy"
                                > georgian/armenian watermellon seller on a Moscow bazar.
                                >
                                > So, Long Live Tsar Michael !!! Under the surcumstances we really
                                > can't do better that that.
                                >
                                > Gene T
                                >
                                > "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
                                > XB!
                                >
                                > Gene T wrote:
                                >
                                > > 40 days of fasting, full confession, tripple full dippin' orthodox
                                > baptism on TV and they be
                                > 100% OK in my book
                                >
                                > JRS: But what is "your book"?
                                >
                                > In Christ
                                > Fr. John R. Shaw
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                              • vkozyreff
                                Dear List, Moreover, the future Tsar is a friend of Khodorkovsky s. Freemasonry, oligarchs, council of foreigh relations, same beard as Nicholas II, blessed
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 1, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear List,

                                  Moreover, the "future Tsar" is a friend of Khodorkovsky's.
                                  Freemasonry, oligarchs, council of foreigh relations, same beard as
                                  Nicholas II, blessed by new ROCOR and MP. Good start! Prelest! Holy
                                  Russia in sight again.

                                  http://www.yukos.com/exclusive/exclusive.asp?id=6087


                                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Stephen/Στέφανος
                                  <sbuatl@c...> wrote:
                                  > Kriste Aghsdga!
                                  >
                                  > While I am in no way in favor of a Freemason "New-World-Order" Tsar
                                  > Michael........ I find your comment "georgian/armenian
                                  watermellon
                                  > seller on a Moscow bazar" very racists and bigoted. The
                                  Georgians
                                  > are some of the most attractive people God has put on earth......
                                  with
                                  > their dark hair; olive skin; blue, green or hazel almond-shaped
                                  eyes,
                                  > etc. Or perhaps you prefer "pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle-puffs"
                                  that
                                  > look like the former King George of England??
                                  >
                                  > Stephanos
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > gene703 wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Fr. John R. Shaw wrote - what is "your book"? >>
                                  > >
                                  > > I am your average orthodox "prihozhanin", in church once a month
                                  +
                                  > > major holidays, can recite Otche Nash from memory, can read
                                  church
                                  > > Slavonic, understand at leat 10% of what is said during liturgy,
                                  > > donated a little over $1000 in 2004 according to the tax form,
                                  hate
                                  > > lying unrepentant commies pretending to be something else,
                                  sometimes
                                  > > read Bible before going to sleep ( a habbit picked up down south
                                  from
                                  > > a roommate ), children baptized by father + Mitrofan from Sea
                                  Cliff (
                                  > > we were so prowd when he made a Bishop ) Well, that's about if
                                  for my
                                  > > book.
                                  > >
                                  > > Seriously, the man is of a direct royal blood, related to
                                  Nicholas II
                                  > > on BOTH sides of his family, most certantly has excellent
                                  manners, not
                                  > > a thief which is saying a lot about any current or future Russian
                                  > > official plus his cousin Charles, who likes to spend so much time
                                  on
                                  > > Afon, can quickly fill him in on all things Orthodox. He woun't
                                  be the
                                  > > first non-russian to assume the throne, Nicholas II himself was
                                  less
                                  > > that 10% Russian but no one can say he was a bad Orthodox /
                                  > > Pravoslavniy. Plus Michael really looks like Tzar's relative and
                                  he
                                  > > really is, while the nearest young ablebodied "russian" pretender
                                  to
                                  > > the throne the son of Madame Kulikova-Romanova looks
                                  like "cheniaviy"
                                  > > georgian/armenian watermellon seller on a Moscow bazar.
                                  > >
                                  > > So, Long Live Tsar Michael !!! Under the surcumstances we really
                                  > > can't do better that that.
                                  > >
                                  > > Gene T
                                  > >
                                  > > "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                                  > > XB!
                                  > >
                                  > > Gene T wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > 40 days of fasting, full confession, tripple full dippin'
                                  orthodox
                                  > > baptism on TV and they be
                                  > > 100% OK in my book
                                  > >
                                  > > JRS: But what is "your book"?
                                  > >
                                  > > In Christ
                                  > > Fr. John R. Shaw
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/
                                  > >
                                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  Service.
                                  > >
                                  > >
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                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
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                                  > >
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                                  ------
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                                  > >
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                                  > > <mailto:orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                  subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                • aprmih
                                  So rather than being Christian about it and either kindly letting your brother know he s erred or, even better, turning the other cheek, you instead insult
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 1, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    So rather than being Christian about it and either kindly letting
                                    your brother know he's erred or, even better, turning the other
                                    cheek, you instead insult every single white person on the list
                                    (at the very least 500 people). Also, nice touch starting your
                                    message with "Christ is Risen" before proceding with your insult.



                                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Stephen/Στέφανος
                                    <sbuatl@c...> wrote:
                                    > Kriste Aghsdga!
                                    >
                                    > ........ I find your comment "georgian/armenian watermellon
                                    > seller on a Moscow bazar" very racists and bigoted.
                                    > The Georgians are some of the most attractive people God has
                                    > put on earth...... with their dark hair; olive skin; blue,
                                    > green or hazel almond-shaped eyes, etc. Or perhaps you
                                    > prefer "pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle-puffs" that look like
                                    > the former King George of England??
                                    >
                                    > Stephanos
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Stephen/Στέφανος
                                    Are you saying that Georgians and southern Europeans are not white?? My intent was to show him that northern Europeans can be seen to be very
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                      Are you saying that Georgians and 'southern' Europeans are not
                                      white?? My intent was to show him that 'northern' Europeans can be
                                      seen to be very unattractive to others.......... especially those who
                                      avoided the sun at all costs, were so pale that they look ill, and
                                      considered anyone with a tan or darker 'white' skin to be a
                                      peasant.......! Memory is still fresh on how southern Europeans were
                                      treated when they came to the U.S. in the previous century........
                                      Sounds like you have a little too much 'white' pride........ are you a
                                      Klan member??

                                      Stephanos


                                      aprmih wrote:

                                      > So rather than being Christian about it and either kindly letting
                                      > your brother know he's erred or, even better, turning the other
                                      > cheek, you instead insult every single white person on the list
                                      > (at the very least 500 people). Also, nice touch starting your
                                      > message with "Christ is Risen" before proceding with your insult.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Stephen/Στέφανος
                                      > <sbuatl@c...> wrote:
                                      > > Kriste Aghsdga!
                                      > >
                                      > > ........ I find your comment "georgian/armenian watermellon
                                      > > seller on a Moscow bazar" very racists and bigoted.
                                      > > The Georgians are some of the most attractive people God has
                                      > > put on earth...... with their dark hair; olive skin; blue,
                                      > > green or hazel almond-shaped eyes, etc. Or perhaps you
                                      > > prefer "pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle-puffs" that look like
                                      > > the former King George of England??
                                      > >
                                      > > Stephanos
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                      >
                                      > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/
                                      >
                                      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                    • aprmih
                                      Interesting. While I was not the one who used the terms olive skinned to describe Georgians and pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle- puffs to describe Northern
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                        Interesting. While I was not the one who used the terms "olive
                                        skinned" to describe Georgians and "pasty-white, Pomeranian poodle-
                                        puffs" to describe Northern Europeans, I am the one ending up being
                                        accused of being a KKK member.

                                        Well, if I have offended you, I apologize. For what it's worth
                                        here's my thought process: I originally was going to use the
                                        currently accepted pc term "caucasian" but changed my mind for
                                        obvious reasons (and boy am I glad I did!). I substituted it
                                        for "white" because I thought that since you originally used the
                                        term "olive skinned", you wouldn't mind. I guess I was wrong. Sorry.

                                        Oops! Gotta go... I'm late for my meeting.... now where did I put my
                                        hood?

                                        Alex


                                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Stephen/Στέφανος
                                        <sbuatl@c...> wrote:
                                        ........
                                        > Sounds like you have a little too much 'white' pride........ are
                                        > you a Klan member??
                                        >
                                        > Stephanos
                                        >
                                      • Russell Martin
                                        Dear List, How disappointing. This is a very interesting and important topic that could have spawned any number of edifying and relevant offshoots. But,
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                          Dear List,

                                          How disappointing. This is a very interesting and important topic that could have spawned any number of edifying and relevant offshoots. But, alas, the thread has gone the way of mutual misunderstandings, of misspoken words, of hurt feelings and apologies, and of dizzying lack of charity. I have long tolerated the vile things that are sometimes said on this list by conspiracy theorists, foaming nationalists, and angry jurisdictionalists. But am I really alone in thinking that the time has come to go back to basics and remember that we all are in a community based on shared belief and love, and that the anonymity that one might be afforded by our computers doesn't allow us to behave as if the person on the receiving end of our emails aren't people with feelings and worth, all made in the image and likeness of God?

                                          What a disappointment. What a shame.

                                          Is it time for more energetic moderation of the contributions to this list?

                                          Roman Martin

                                          Russell E. Martin
                                          Assoc. Professor of History
                                          Westminster College
                                          New Wilmington, PA 16172-0001
                                          phone: 724.946.6254
                                          fax: 724.946.7256
                                          webpage: http://www.westminster.edu/staff/martinre/
                                          other email: remartin@...
                                        • vkozyreff
                                          Dear Roman, I discussed a few times on this forum the meaning of do not judge and the necessity to judge for any Christian. Your message, however, is a sum
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jun 2, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Dear Roman,

                                            I discussed a few times on this forum the meaning of "do not judge"
                                            and the necessity to judge for any Christian. Your message, however,
                                            is a sum of condemnations and insults of the kind that we should
                                            avoid and that is not expected from a historian, in my view. Briefly,
                                            your message (whcih is more offensive than the ones you criticised)
                                            says that some members of this List:

                                            1. have disappointed you
                                            2. are below the expected level
                                            3. have shown dizzying lack of charity.
                                            4. are "vile" "Conspiracy theorists".
                                            5. are "foaming nationalists"
                                            6. are "angry juridictionalists".
                                            7. are a shame
                                            8. are forgetting basics and the fact that their correspondents
                                            are made in the image of God.

                                            You add that you have tolerated the above with difficulty and that
                                            the moderator has failed.

                                            Concerning your attacks which I felt directed at least in part to me,
                                            I woulkd like to stress that:

                                            I am not vile in thinking that there are conspiracies (Vl Averky of
                                            Syracuse spoke about them).

                                            I am not a foaming nationalist, but I love Russia.

                                            I am not an "angry juridictionalist", but I am sad at ROCOR's recent
                                            evolution.

                                            The conversation about racial features on this List is unimportant.

                                            I would like to say the following about the Russian succession: Your
                                            judgement on the Kyrill Vladimirovich line as candidates to the
                                            throne seems wrong and not very well informed to me, especially from
                                            the spiritual angle. You overlook their treason of the Emperor and of
                                            Russia in 1917, their absence by the Russian orthodox anti communist
                                            patriots in the West, their lack of dignity before Russia's new
                                            leaders ad their betraying ROCOR. They have not impressed anybody in
                                            the White Russian emigration. They have never shown any kind of
                                            leadership.

                                            I met a few people that had "put themselves at the service of Her
                                            Highness", who looked like operetta courtisans more than anything
                                            else and others that had been "ennobled". For years, we have been
                                            trying to associate them with our actions. The only response that we
                                            received once, is that Her Highness Maria Vladimirovna accepted to
                                            attend a Russian charity ball in Brussels. She only cared about
                                            winning at the lottery and getting flattered. Prince George is
                                            working at the European Commission in Brussels. Attempts to
                                            communicate with him from the Russian orthodox community have been
                                            ignored.

                                            In God,

                                            Vladimir Kozyreff


                                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Martin"
                                            <MartinRE@w...> wrote:
                                            > Dear List,
                                            >
                                            > How disappointing. This is a very interesting and important topic
                                            that could have spawned any number of edifying and relevant
                                            offshoots. But, alas, the thread has gone the way of mutual
                                            misunderstandings, of misspoken words, of hurt feelings and
                                            apologies, and of dizzying lack of charity. I have long tolerated
                                            the vile things that are sometimes said on this list by conspiracy
                                            theorists, foaming nationalists, and angry jurisdictionalists. But
                                            am I really alone in thinking that the time has come to go back to
                                            basics and remember that we all are in a community based on shared
                                            belief and love, and that the anonymity that one might be afforded by
                                            our computers doesn't allow us to behave as if the person on the
                                            receiving end of our emails aren't people with feelings and worth,
                                            all made in the image and likeness of God?
                                            >
                                            > What a disappointment. What a shame.
                                            >
                                            > Is it time for more energetic moderation of the contributions to
                                            this list?
                                            >
                                            > Roman Martin
                                            >
                                            > Russell E. Martin
                                            > Assoc. Professor of History
                                            > Westminster College
                                            > New Wilmington, PA 16172-0001
                                            > phone: 724.946.6254
                                            > fax: 724.946.7256
                                            > webpage: http://www.westminster.edu/staff/martinre/
                                            > other email: remartin@p...
                                          • vkozyreff
                                            Dear List, Prince Michael of Kent, son of George, Duke of Kent gave up his right to the throne in 1978 when he married the Roman Catholic Baroness
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jun 2, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Dear List,

                                              Prince Michael of Kent, son of George, Duke of Kent gave up his right
                                              to the throne in 1978 when he married the Roman Catholic Baroness
                                              Marie-Christine von Reibnitz of Bohemia. They have two children, Lord
                                              Frederick Windsor, born in 1979; and Lady Gabriella Windsor, born in
                                              1981.

                                              There was embarrassment in the Eighties when Princess Michael of
                                              Kent's father, Baron Gunther von Reibnitz, was exposed as a former
                                              Nazi party member and SS officer.

                                              " It was being speculated for over a year, but now it appears that
                                              Lady Gabriella Windsor, called Ella and 30th in line to the British
                                              throne, will marry Aatish Taseer, 24-year-old son of the columnist
                                              Tavleen Singh, soon. Prince and Princess Michael Kent will reportedly
                                              announce that their 23-year-old daughter is to marry Aatish early
                                              this year. The Prince and the Princess have no problem with Aatish
                                              who, although born of a Muslim father, is said to be a practising
                                              Sikh. In fact the Princess, who considers Aatish as one of the most
                                              handsome young man, once reportedly said she would have no objection
                                              if Prince Williams married a Muslim girl. .. [India Express Bureau]"

                                              http://desitalk.newsindia-times.com/2005/01/21/wedding-28top.html

                                              I wonder whether the Prince is not a bit too "open minded" to be a
                                              reasonable candidate for an orthodox throne.

                                              In God,

                                              Vladimir Kozyreff

                                              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                              <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                              > Dear Roman,
                                              >
                                              > I discussed a few times on this forum the meaning of "do not judge"
                                              > and the necessity to judge for any Christian. Your message,
                                              however,
                                              > is a sum of condemnations and insults of the kind that we should
                                              > avoid and that is not expected from a historian, in my view.
                                              Briefly,
                                              > your message (whcih is more offensive than the ones you criticised)
                                              > says that some members of this List:
                                              >
                                              > 1. have disappointed you
                                              > 2. are below the expected level
                                              > 3. have shown dizzying lack of charity.
                                              > 4. are "vile" "Conspiracy theorists".
                                              > 5. are "foaming nationalists"
                                              > 6. are "angry juridictionalists".
                                              > 7. are a shame
                                              > 8. are forgetting basics and the fact that their correspondents
                                              > are made in the image of God.
                                              >
                                              > You add that you have tolerated the above with difficulty and that
                                              > the moderator has failed.
                                              >
                                              > Concerning your attacks which I felt directed at least in part to
                                              me,
                                              > I woulkd like to stress that:
                                              >
                                              > I am not vile in thinking that there are conspiracies (Vl Averky of
                                              > Syracuse spoke about them).
                                              >
                                              > I am not a foaming nationalist, but I love Russia.
                                              >
                                              > I am not an "angry juridictionalist", but I am sad at ROCOR's
                                              recent
                                              > evolution.
                                              >
                                              > The conversation about racial features on this List is unimportant.
                                              >
                                              > I would like to say the following about the Russian succession:
                                              Your
                                              > judgement on the Kyrill Vladimirovich line as candidates to the
                                              > throne seems wrong and not very well informed to me, especially
                                              from
                                              > the spiritual angle. You overlook their treason of the Emperor and
                                              of
                                              > Russia in 1917, their absence by the Russian orthodox anti
                                              communist
                                              > patriots in the West, their lack of dignity before Russia's new
                                              > leaders ad their betraying ROCOR. They have not impressed anybody
                                              in
                                              > the White Russian emigration. They have never shown any kind of
                                              > leadership.
                                              >
                                              > I met a few people that had "put themselves at the service of Her
                                              > Highness", who looked like operetta courtisans more than anything
                                              > else and others that had been "ennobled". For years, we have been
                                              > trying to associate them with our actions. The only response that
                                              we
                                              > received once, is that Her Highness Maria Vladimirovna accepted to
                                              > attend a Russian charity ball in Brussels. She only cared about
                                              > winning at the lottery and getting flattered. Prince George is
                                              > working at the European Commission in Brussels. Attempts to
                                              > communicate with him from the Russian orthodox community have been
                                              > ignored.
                                              >
                                              > In God,
                                              >
                                              > Vladimir Kozyreff
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Martin"
                                              > <MartinRE@w...> wrote:
                                              > > Dear List,
                                              > >
                                              > > How disappointing. This is a very interesting and important
                                              topic
                                              > that could have spawned any number of edifying and relevant
                                              > offshoots. But, alas, the thread has gone the way of mutual
                                              > misunderstandings, of misspoken words, of hurt feelings and
                                              > apologies, and of dizzying lack of charity. I have long tolerated
                                              > the vile things that are sometimes said on this list by conspiracy
                                              > theorists, foaming nationalists, and angry jurisdictionalists. But
                                              > am I really alone in thinking that the time has come to go back to
                                              > basics and remember that we all are in a community based on shared
                                              > belief and love, and that the anonymity that one might be afforded
                                              by
                                              > our computers doesn't allow us to behave as if the person on the
                                              > receiving end of our emails aren't people with feelings and worth,
                                              > all made in the image and likeness of God?
                                              > >
                                              > > What a disappointment. What a shame.
                                              > >
                                              > > Is it time for more energetic moderation of the contributions to
                                              > this list?
                                              > >
                                              > > Roman Martin
                                              > >
                                              > > Russell E. Martin
                                              > > Assoc. Professor of History
                                              > > Westminster College
                                              > > New Wilmington, PA 16172-0001
                                              > > phone: 724.946.6254
                                              > > fax: 724.946.7256
                                              > > webpage: http://www.westminster.edu/staff/martinre/
                                              > > other email: remartin@p...
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