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Re: [orthodox-synod] Digest Number 1583

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  • mik opar
    (Unlike Poland and the Baltic states, Russia lacks a key source of soft power : a united body of ethnic expatriates who can be relied on to support the mother
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 1, 2005
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      (Unlike Poland and the Baltic states, Russia lacks a key source of "soft
      power": a united body of ethnic expatriates who can be relied on to support
      the mother country's policies in places like Washington. But this could
      change in the very near future. Moscow may bring into its sphere of
      influence what used to be a key ideological base for the Kremlin's emigre
      foes, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, or ROCOR. The Kremlin and
      the domestic, Kremlin-dominated Russian Orthodox Church could gain a new
      seal of moral and historical legitimacy at a time when Russia faces growing
      criticism for its swing toward authoritarianism.

      In the 1920s, when the Bolsheviks were jailing or killing thousands of
      Orthodox Christians, a small group of refugee bishops formed what
      eventually became ROCOR. That body inherited or founded hundreds of
      parishes among Russian emigres in Western Europe and the Americas, while
      seeing its own existence as temporary. Its position has always been that
      once the domestic Moscow Patriarchate clearly renounced certain toxic
      habits adopted under Soviet pressure, the Russian church should reunite.

      One of those habits is "Sergyanism," named after the tame bishop chosen by
      Stalin as patriarch of Moscow. Under Sergy and his successors, the domestic
      church's top clergy systematically collaborated with a regime that
      systematically persecuted the church's own members. The habit continued to
      the end of Soviet rule and beyond. Critics of the Moscow Patriarchate note
      that to this day, it collaborates with tyrants such as the current rulers
      of Belarus and Turkmenistan, as well as with Russia's siloviki. Sergyanism
      lives on, observe these critics, not just as past history the church has
      never repented, but as unreformed present reality.)

      I am a but a recent convert, to the ROCOR, from american baptist protestantism, but in my reading and opinion, I have to question historic Russian attitudes and actual history. Look what Russia has recently done to the elections in Ukraine, and the Russian attitude towards Ukraine (..little russians...) as they are called.

      This haughty attitude toward others is uncalled for and only clouds the issues. My impetus for joining ROCOR, is the keeping of the Church calendar (and rejection of the Masonic new calendar (really, there are Uniates for a reason, if you must celebrate Latin Christmas only, then why bother with the OCA and Antiochian, at least , I think , that the Uniate diocese' are a little more honest in this regard...!) I visited a 'russian" Orthodox church in Bathleham ,PA and found the Priest and Deacon and Read with the 'catholic' cleric collar on, they read the wrong scripture (NS), and not one woman had a covering on her head. What right do they have calling this "russian", even pews just like any other Latin church. Nevertheless, to say I was dissappointed is touching the Tip of their iceburg, Mike Wurzbacher Transfiguration ROC




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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • vkozyreff
      Dear Mike, I think you misinterpret the meaning of little Russia . If you consider the term Ukraine as better from the angle of Ukrainian nationalists, you
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 2, 2005
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        Dear Mike,

        I think you misinterpret the meaning of "little Russia". If you
        consider the term "Ukraine" as better from the angle of Ukrainian
        nationalists, you are mistaken. "Ukraine" stresses this land's
        Russianness, as it means "the border-territory (of Russia)". Russians
        have never had any "haughty" attitude towards Ukrainians. There are
        so many of them living in Russia, feeling Russians, married to Great-
        Russians. As a Russian, I am perfectly at home in the Ukraine, etc.

        As you may konw, when ancient Greece extended its influence to
        Southern Italy, the latter became known as "Great Greece", little
        Greece being then the metropolis.

        You know that Russia's history begins in Kiev, and that Kievian "Rus"
        extended to the present Northern Russia. The term "Russia" (Rossya)
        is relatively recent (XVIII century) . Nobody disputes the fact that
        the persent "Ukraine" was "Rus"(Kiev was the capital of Rus) before
        it was conquered by the Tatars, Turks and Poles.

        We are all under an active anti-Russian propaganda. The US are still
        aiming at containing Russia and dividing Russia as much as it can,
        and at preventing any rapprochement with the EU. What Russia did in
        the Ukraine is not worse than what the US did there to support
        Youschenko and did previously in Russia to have Yeltsin elected, for
        instance. Remember, "Russia has no friends".

        I do not share your negative assessment of Russia's regime returning
        to State authority. The State must be assertive there. What is
        negative indeed, is the fact that Communism is still part of the
        culture, and that people will not reject it. I have nothing against
        socialism, but I am against criminal states. The problem is that the
        West forgives or ignores the crimes against mankind, because Russia
        adopted the "market economy" which, by the way, has thrown 70% of
        families with children into poverty (less that 2 dollars income a
        day).

        The MP too has adopted market economy and remains silent about the
        genocide committed by the communist.

        In God,

        Vladimir Kozyreff

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, mik opar <mikross53@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > (Unlike Poland and the Baltic states, Russia lacks a key source
        of "soft
        > power": a united body of ethnic expatriates who can be relied on to
        support
        > the mother country's policies in places like Washington. But this
        could
        > change in the very near future. Moscow may bring into its sphere of
        > influence what used to be a key ideological base for the Kremlin's
        emigre
        > foes, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, or ROCOR. The
        Kremlin and
        > the domestic, Kremlin-dominated Russian Orthodox Church could gain
        a new
        > seal of moral and historical legitimacy at a time when Russia faces
        growing
        > criticism for its swing toward authoritarianism.
        >
        > In the 1920s, when the Bolsheviks were jailing or killing thousands
        of
        > Orthodox Christians, a small group of refugee bishops formed what
        > eventually became ROCOR. That body inherited or founded hundreds of
        > parishes among Russian emigres in Western Europe and the Americas,
        while
        > seeing its own existence as temporary. Its position has always been
        that
        > once the domestic Moscow Patriarchate clearly renounced certain
        toxic
        > habits adopted under Soviet pressure, the Russian church should
        reunite.
        >
        > One of those habits is "Sergyanism," named after the tame bishop
        chosen by
        > Stalin as patriarch of Moscow. Under Sergy and his successors, the
        domestic
        > church's top clergy systematically collaborated with a regime that
        > systematically persecuted the church's own members. The habit
        continued to
        > the end of Soviet rule and beyond. Critics of the Moscow
        Patriarchate note
        > that to this day, it collaborates with tyrants such as the current
        rulers
        > of Belarus and Turkmenistan, as well as with Russia's siloviki.
        Sergyanism
        > lives on, observe these critics, not just as past history the
        church has
        > never repented, but as unreformed present reality.)
        >
        > I am a but a recent convert, to the ROCOR, from american baptist
        protestantism, but in my reading and opinion, I have to question
        historic Russian attitudes and actual history. Look what Russia has
        recently done to the elections in Ukraine, and the Russian attitude
        towards Ukraine (..little russians...) as they are called.
        >
        > This haughty attitude toward others is uncalled for and only clouds
        the issues. My impetus for joining ROCOR, is the keeping of the
        Church calendar (and rejection of the Masonic new calendar (really,
        there are Uniates for a reason, if you must celebrate Latin Christmas
        only, then why bother with the OCA and Antiochian, at least , I
        think , that the Uniate diocese' are a little more honest in this
        regard...!) I visited a 'russian" Orthodox church in Bathleham ,PA
        and found the Priest and Deacon and Read with the 'catholic' cleric
        collar on, they read the wrong scripture (NS), and not one woman had
        a covering on her head. What right do they have calling
        this "russian", even pews just like any other Latin church.
        Nevertheless, to say I was dissappointed is touching the Tip of their
        iceburg, Mike Wurzbacher Transfiguration ROC
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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