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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: music our kids listen to

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  • larry most
    GLORY TO JESUS CHRISST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER Dear Reader Michael, I like most kinds of music and especially classical music.(Not the piecies that sound like 2
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
      Dear Reader Michael,
      I like most kinds of music and especially classical
      music.(Not the piecies that sound like 2 cats on the
      piano or what I lovingly refer to as "hungarian
      funeral music"). The problem nowdays (I'm dating
      myself) is that what is called "music" isn't music at
      all. I is either a beat with a bunch of words (that
      you really don't want to understand) or a bunch of
      literally banging on guitars and screaming lyrics that
      are sometimes cute and sometimes not. Just my humble
      opinion, so I hope I didn't offend you.
      Love in Christ,
      Sub-deacon Lawrence
      --- Reader Michael Malloy
      <sputnikpsalomschchika@...> wrote:

      > Two comments:
      > The "Heavy Metal" thing in Columbus was blown way
      > out of proportion by
      > the local media here. And I very much believe too
      > much was made over
      > the fans of this stuff. It was presented in a normal
      > way, as if this
      > stuff was good for people. THAT makes me sick.
      > On the comments about good music to listen to, I
      > could go on for hours
      > but I don't want to clutter the list and I can't
      > stay up that late anyway.
      > Just this past weekend our priest spoke about the
      > effects of music,
      > but he was talking more about classical music. I
      > think there are some
      > extremes that were mentioned which I don't agree
      > with. For instance,
      > Mozart was on the list of composers considered
      > somewhat dangerous. OK,
      > so Mozart was a Mason, and his operas are...well,
      > they're operas!
      > Opera by its nature is very un-Orthodox Christian.
      > The discussion
      > went into Goethe and other philosphers who were
      > infulential in the
      > 19th century. I guess Richard Strauss is right out
      > if you want to be
      > picky about it. I happen to love his music and I
      > disagree with his
      > sources of inspiration. I've played orchestral music
      > by R. Strauss -
      > Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegle, etc. It is very well
      > crafted music.
      > What do the rest of you think about classical music?
      > Where do you draw
      > the lines?
      > With a bachelor of music (musicology) I am
      > influenced by my
      > experiences and my studies. I firmly believe
      > classical music is almost
      > 100% perfectly good for Christians to listen to.
      > Reader Michael Malloy
      > Columbus OH

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    • Fr. Michael Crowley
      I believe that it is the parents who we need to address. Unfortunately, by the time the kids are teens and the parents see the result of their spiritual
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
        I believe that it is the parents who we need to address. Unfortunately,
        by the time the kids are teens and the parents see the result of their
        spiritual "neglect" it is almost too late. Thank God we have places like
        St. Seraphim Camp where we can nurture these higher values and encourage
        relationships with peers who then become co-strugglers. We have heard
        more than one report of kids going home from camp and goading their
        parents into bringing them to church!
        What is it with people? They claim that they are tired at the end of the
        week from working, need time for themselves, need time for their
        family... How come so many of us also work full time jobs and do not
        feel that the Church interferes at all, rather just the opposite? It
        almost takes some catastrophic event to wake us up to the incredible
        gift and beauty of the Church! Perhaps some of us have gotten close
        enough to the edge of the cliff in the past.
        Back to the subject -- parents have to start immediately, from birth, to
        instill the love of Beauty and Truth into their children. Excellence in
        academics and/or sports in themselves are not bad things, but will
        ultimately not suffice. I bring this up because these two things seem to
        dominate the hopes of many of the parents (who at least make the effort
        to care!) that I know or hear about. If their kids are good at at least
        one of these they have a chance of "fitting in." If they "fit in" the
        have a great chance of being "successful" and having a "comfortable"
        life. Again, I am not against success or comfort (if that means adequate
        food, clothing and shelter, a loving spouse, etc.), but when these are
        given preeminence over virtue and faithfulness there is sure to be
        disaster ahead.
        Way back to the original subject -- most of the main stream contemporary
        music is intoxicating -- like a drug or alcohol. We should keep our kids
        away from it for as long as we can. But it does not work to only
        withhold -- we must also give something better.
        This is what cuts deep into our own selfishness and/or wallets!

        Fr. Michael

        Fr. Alexis Duncan wrote:

        >You mention coming to church twice a week. Father, you
        >indeed are a fanatic!
        >Actually I tried once to suggest to someone that a good
        >"barometer" of a healthy family life is their attendance at
        >the Vigil on Saturdays and feasts. The ones who make this a
        >point seem better off. Of course, it is just a barometer
        >that reflects that the parents do a far greater job at home.
        >Then I have seen families where the children are far from
        >the Church and begin to be big trouble; parents who never
        >wanted to impose on the children to bring them to church and
        >the and then they weep in disbelief and ask "Why?". In the
        >end it seems that the parents are the ones we need to reach.
        >Fr. Alexis Duncan
        >Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
        >Atlanta, GA
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Fr. Michael Crowley [mailto:tcrowley@...]
        >Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:01 PM
        >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] music our kids listen to
        >My approach as a parent and priest has been to look for
        >opportunity to immerse the senses of my children (both
        >kinds) in
        >Orthodox culture and/or the best of the "fallen good" of
        >culture. This is often time consuming and expensive and so I
        >fall short since I am far from being unselfish. I have
        >though, been able
        >to recognize the difference when efforts are made.
        >I tell new/young parents to keep this kind of music out of
        >their homes,
        >to severely limit TV viewing (better to not even have one),
        >etc. and
        >conversely present beautiful music and images as much as
        >Coming to Church at least twice a week saves a lot of work
        >on the
        >parents' part!
        >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
      • (matushka) Ann Lardas
        Father, bless! I ve discovered that it s important for parents to listen to what their children like. Three of ours are teenagers and the other wants to be. We
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
          Father, bless!

          I've discovered that it's important for parents to listen to what
          their children like. Three of ours are teenagers and the other wants
          to be. We have a rule that if they are helping with the housework,
          the kids get to choose the music. This way, I know what they're
          listening to. Lately, they've discovered things from the seventies
          and eighties -- Weird Al and Tom Lehrer -- but we also get Blink182
          and Smashmouth and the like. When the kids get a funny look on their
          faces and say, "We're going to skip the next track," then I know that
          they know that it's no good. This is a good thing. There are CD's and
          even groups that we just don't listen to any more after I got a good
          earful. We often borrow CD's from the library before buying them for
          just that reason. But from this the older kids have learned what is
          and isn't acceptable. And that's an important life skill. After all,
          I can't go to college with them and sit in the dorm sorting through
          cd's. They have to learn how to censor their own listening.

          Children who play a musical instrument sometimes have more
          discernment and a greater opportunity to police their own musical
          choices. Our crew has discovered Irish music, some of which is not
          very lenten but most of which tells a story or offers a moral.

          The computer is a big help, in that kids today can download specific
          songs and ignore the ones they don't like, making custom tailored
          cd's or ipods or whatever. Fr. Peter is big on explaining that they
          need to pay licensing for what they listen to, which I appreciate.
          But whatever they download, parents have to listen to it, even if
          it's torture to do so.

          When our oldest was ten, the bus driver used to play rap on the bus
          radio, and a parishioner gave her a little AM/FM radio of her own.
          She wanted to play the rap station at home, KBOX, and I let her on
          the condition that I listen, too. The words went by too fast for her
          to notice, but I heard them just fine, and when my eyebrows went back
          down to where they normally belong again, I came up with a strategy
          for getting her to abandon the station on her own. I chose one song
          and made it my "favorite." It had a chorus which went:

          Hurricane, but you can call me Flurricane.
          Hurricane, but you can call me Flurricane.
          Flurricane, but you can call me Hurricane.
          Hurricane, but you can call me Hurricane.

          And that's the repeatable part.

          Anyway, every time this song came on, I followed the teenybopper
          ettiquete and made everyone be quiet so I could listen. And sing
          along. And dance. No matter who was over. No matter what they were

          It took her less than a week to find the classic channel, and rap has
          not entered since.

          FWIW, I like the music that the kids play when they get together for
          campfires at camp, and I like having older teens and young adults
          there whom they can learn about new groups and genres from. That's
          how they learned about the sound track from "Oh, Brother, Where Art
          Thou." Given that they're not going to sit around comparing Georgian
          chant to Bulgarian, we owe it to them to listen to what they listen
          to, and help them reach decisions about what it teaches and where it
          leads. Beyond that, we have the "Fr. N. test," which is, "Don't play
          music for yourself that you would be embarrassed to listen to in
          front of the priest." Depending on how cool a priest they choose for
          the N., there can be quite a range, but it weeds out anything too
          depressing or depraved.

          In Christ,
          Matushka Ann
        • ourlittlecity@aol.com
          In a message dated 2/1/2005 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 7848@adelphia.net writes: Can you imagine...treatises on ascetic life, prayer
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
            In a message dated 2/1/2005 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
            7848@... writes:
            Can you imagine...treatises
            on ascetic life, prayer and.......head-bangers.
            A modern version of Stylites? I know I feel like banging my head when
            circumstances have dictated that I must hear unwanted IIchin music.

            rdr. john dunn

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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