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RE: [orthodox-synod] music our kids listen to

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  • Fr. Alexis Duncan
    You mention coming to church twice a week. Father, you indeed are a fanatic! Actually I tried once to suggest to someone that a good barometer of a healthy
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 1 6:56 AM
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      You mention coming to church twice a week. Father, you
      indeed are a fanatic!

      Actually I tried once to suggest to someone that a good
      "barometer" of a healthy family life is their attendance at
      the Vigil on Saturdays and feasts. The ones who make this a
      point seem better off. Of course, it is just a barometer
      that reflects that the parents do a far greater job at home.
      Then I have seen families where the children are far from
      the Church and begin to be big trouble; parents who never
      wanted to impose on the children to bring them to church and
      the and then they weep in disbelief and ask "Why?". In the
      end it seems that the parents are the ones we need to reach.

      _________________________________________________


      Fr. Alexis Duncan
      Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
      Atlanta, GA
      www.orthodoxinfo.biz

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Fr. Michael Crowley [mailto:tcrowley@...]
      Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:01 PM
      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] music our kids listen to



      My approach as a parent and priest has been to look for
      every
      opportunity to immerse the senses of my children (both
      kinds) in
      Orthodox culture and/or the best of the "fallen good" of
      Western
      culture. This is often time consuming and expensive and so I
      continually
      fall short since I am far from being unselfish. I have
      though, been able
      to recognize the difference when efforts are made.
      I tell new/young parents to keep this kind of music out of
      their homes,
      to severely limit TV viewing (better to not even have one),
      etc. and
      conversely present beautiful music and images as much as
      possible.
      Coming to Church at least twice a week saves a lot of work
      on the
      parents' part!
    • Fr. Alexis Duncan
      Classical is the least of our worries I feel. Of course during Lent it is avoided by most families. Actually, growing up I heard it at home and became
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 1 7:09 AM
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        Classical is the least of our worries I feel. Of course
        during Lent it is avoided by most families. Actually,
        growing up I heard it at home and became interested on my
        own. Now that I am growing older, I have little taste for
        it. Odd.

        There are some very interesting theories about music. The
        Greeks had the various modes classified as to the effects
        they had on the soul. Seems reasonable to me. Perhaps
        someone with more knowledge about this can offer these
        insights.

        Maybe there is really not much we can do about kids (or
        adults!) listening to head-banging music. The culture of
        head-bangers is what is frightening. I recently saw a couple
        of "blogs" (bizarre things aren't they...for the Andy Warhol
        fame seekers) of Orthodox Christians that listed their
        favorite bands...head-bangers! Can you imagine...treatises
        on ascetic life, prayer and.......head-bangers.

        _________________________________________________


        Fr. Alexis Duncan
        Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
        Atlanta, GA
        www.orthodoxinfo.biz


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Reader Michael Malloy
        [mailto:sputnikpsalomschchika@...]
        Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:59 PM
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: music our kids listen to

        Two comments:

        The "Heavy Metal" thing in Columbus was blown way out of
        proportion by
        the local media here. And I very much believe too much was
        made over
        the fans of this stuff. It was presented in a normal way, as
        if this
        stuff was good for people. THAT makes me sick.

        On the comments about good music to listen to, I could go on
        for hours
        but I don't want to clutter the list and I can't stay up
        that late anyway.

        Just this past weekend our priest spoke about the effects of
        music,
        but he was talking more about classical music. I think
        there are some
        extremes that were mentioned which I don't agree with. For
        instance,
        Mozart was on the list of composers considered somewhat
        dangerous. OK,
        so Mozart was a Mason, and his operas are...well, they're
        operas!
        Opera by its nature is very un-Orthodox Christian. The
        discussion
        went into Goethe and other philosphers who were infulential
        in the
        19th century. I guess Richard Strauss is right out if you
        want to be
        picky about it. I happen to love his music and I disagree
        with his
        sources of inspiration. I've played orchestral music by R.
        Strauss -
        Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegle, etc. It is very well crafted
        music.

        What do the rest of you think about classical music? Where
        do you draw
        the lines?
      • larry most
        GLORY TO JESUS CHRISST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER Dear Reader Michael, I like most kinds of music and especially classical music.(Not the piecies that sound like 2
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 1 8:13 AM
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          GLORY TO JESUS CHRISST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
          Dear Reader Michael,
          I like most kinds of music and especially classical
          music.(Not the piecies that sound like 2 cats on the
          piano or what I lovingly refer to as "hungarian
          funeral music"). The problem nowdays (I'm dating
          myself) is that what is called "music" isn't music at
          all. I is either a beat with a bunch of words (that
          you really don't want to understand) or a bunch of
          literally banging on guitars and screaming lyrics that
          are sometimes cute and sometimes not. Just my humble
          opinion, so I hope I didn't offend you.
          Love in Christ,
          Sub-deacon Lawrence
          --- Reader Michael Malloy
          <sputnikpsalomschchika@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Two comments:
          >
          > The "Heavy Metal" thing in Columbus was blown way
          > out of proportion by
          > the local media here. And I very much believe too
          > much was made over
          > the fans of this stuff. It was presented in a normal
          > way, as if this
          > stuff was good for people. THAT makes me sick.
          >
          > On the comments about good music to listen to, I
          > could go on for hours
          > but I don't want to clutter the list and I can't
          > stay up that late anyway.
          >
          > Just this past weekend our priest spoke about the
          > effects of music,
          > but he was talking more about classical music. I
          > think there are some
          > extremes that were mentioned which I don't agree
          > with. For instance,
          > Mozart was on the list of composers considered
          > somewhat dangerous. OK,
          > so Mozart was a Mason, and his operas are...well,
          > they're operas!
          > Opera by its nature is very un-Orthodox Christian.
          > The discussion
          > went into Goethe and other philosphers who were
          > infulential in the
          > 19th century. I guess Richard Strauss is right out
          > if you want to be
          > picky about it. I happen to love his music and I
          > disagree with his
          > sources of inspiration. I've played orchestral music
          > by R. Strauss -
          > Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegle, etc. It is very well
          > crafted music.
          >
          > What do the rest of you think about classical music?
          > Where do you draw
          > the lines?
          >
          > With a bachelor of music (musicology) I am
          > influenced by my
          > experiences and my studies. I firmly believe
          > classical music is almost
          > 100% perfectly good for Christians to listen to.
          >
          > Reader Michael Malloy
          > Columbus OH
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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        • Fr. Michael Crowley
          I believe that it is the parents who we need to address. Unfortunately, by the time the kids are teens and the parents see the result of their spiritual
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 1 10:37 AM
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            I believe that it is the parents who we need to address. Unfortunately,
            by the time the kids are teens and the parents see the result of their
            spiritual "neglect" it is almost too late. Thank God we have places like
            St. Seraphim Camp where we can nurture these higher values and encourage
            relationships with peers who then become co-strugglers. We have heard
            more than one report of kids going home from camp and goading their
            parents into bringing them to church!
            What is it with people? They claim that they are tired at the end of the
            week from working, need time for themselves, need time for their
            family... How come so many of us also work full time jobs and do not
            feel that the Church interferes at all, rather just the opposite? It
            almost takes some catastrophic event to wake us up to the incredible
            gift and beauty of the Church! Perhaps some of us have gotten close
            enough to the edge of the cliff in the past.
            Back to the subject -- parents have to start immediately, from birth, to
            instill the love of Beauty and Truth into their children. Excellence in
            academics and/or sports in themselves are not bad things, but will
            ultimately not suffice. I bring this up because these two things seem to
            dominate the hopes of many of the parents (who at least make the effort
            to care!) that I know or hear about. If their kids are good at at least
            one of these they have a chance of "fitting in." If they "fit in" the
            have a great chance of being "successful" and having a "comfortable"
            life. Again, I am not against success or comfort (if that means adequate
            food, clothing and shelter, a loving spouse, etc.), but when these are
            given preeminence over virtue and faithfulness there is sure to be
            disaster ahead.
            Way back to the original subject -- most of the main stream contemporary
            music is intoxicating -- like a drug or alcohol. We should keep our kids
            away from it for as long as we can. But it does not work to only
            withhold -- we must also give something better.
            This is what cuts deep into our own selfishness and/or wallets!

            Fr. Michael

            Fr. Alexis Duncan wrote:

            >You mention coming to church twice a week. Father, you
            >indeed are a fanatic!
            >
            >Actually I tried once to suggest to someone that a good
            >"barometer" of a healthy family life is their attendance at
            >the Vigil on Saturdays and feasts. The ones who make this a
            >point seem better off. Of course, it is just a barometer
            >that reflects that the parents do a far greater job at home.
            >Then I have seen families where the children are far from
            >the Church and begin to be big trouble; parents who never
            >wanted to impose on the children to bring them to church and
            >the and then they weep in disbelief and ask "Why?". In the
            >end it seems that the parents are the ones we need to reach.
            >
            >_________________________________________________
            >
            >
            >Fr. Alexis Duncan
            >Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
            >Atlanta, GA
            >www.orthodoxinfo.biz
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Fr. Michael Crowley [mailto:tcrowley@...]
            >Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:01 PM
            >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] music our kids listen to
            >
            >
            >
            >My approach as a parent and priest has been to look for
            >every
            >opportunity to immerse the senses of my children (both
            >kinds) in
            >Orthodox culture and/or the best of the "fallen good" of
            >Western
            >culture. This is often time consuming and expensive and so I
            >continually
            >fall short since I am far from being unselfish. I have
            >though, been able
            >to recognize the difference when efforts are made.
            >I tell new/young parents to keep this kind of music out of
            >their homes,
            >to severely limit TV viewing (better to not even have one),
            >etc. and
            >conversely present beautiful music and images as much as
            >possible.
            >Coming to Church at least twice a week saves a lot of work
            >on the
            >parents' part!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • (matushka) Ann Lardas
            Father, bless! I ve discovered that it s important for parents to listen to what their children like. Three of ours are teenagers and the other wants to be. We
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 1 2:01 PM
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              Father, bless!

              I've discovered that it's important for parents to listen to what
              their children like. Three of ours are teenagers and the other wants
              to be. We have a rule that if they are helping with the housework,
              the kids get to choose the music. This way, I know what they're
              listening to. Lately, they've discovered things from the seventies
              and eighties -- Weird Al and Tom Lehrer -- but we also get Blink182
              and Smashmouth and the like. When the kids get a funny look on their
              faces and say, "We're going to skip the next track," then I know that
              they know that it's no good. This is a good thing. There are CD's and
              even groups that we just don't listen to any more after I got a good
              earful. We often borrow CD's from the library before buying them for
              just that reason. But from this the older kids have learned what is
              and isn't acceptable. And that's an important life skill. After all,
              I can't go to college with them and sit in the dorm sorting through
              cd's. They have to learn how to censor their own listening.

              Children who play a musical instrument sometimes have more
              discernment and a greater opportunity to police their own musical
              choices. Our crew has discovered Irish music, some of which is not
              very lenten but most of which tells a story or offers a moral.

              The computer is a big help, in that kids today can download specific
              songs and ignore the ones they don't like, making custom tailored
              cd's or ipods or whatever. Fr. Peter is big on explaining that they
              need to pay licensing for what they listen to, which I appreciate.
              But whatever they download, parents have to listen to it, even if
              it's torture to do so.

              When our oldest was ten, the bus driver used to play rap on the bus
              radio, and a parishioner gave her a little AM/FM radio of her own.
              She wanted to play the rap station at home, KBOX, and I let her on
              the condition that I listen, too. The words went by too fast for her
              to notice, but I heard them just fine, and when my eyebrows went back
              down to where they normally belong again, I came up with a strategy
              for getting her to abandon the station on her own. I chose one song
              and made it my "favorite." It had a chorus which went:

              Hurricane, but you can call me Flurricane.
              Hurricane, but you can call me Flurricane.
              Flurricane, but you can call me Hurricane.
              Hurricane, but you can call me Hurricane.

              And that's the repeatable part.

              Anyway, every time this song came on, I followed the teenybopper
              ettiquete and made everyone be quiet so I could listen. And sing
              along. And dance. No matter who was over. No matter what they were
              doing.

              It took her less than a week to find the classic channel, and rap has
              not entered since.

              FWIW, I like the music that the kids play when they get together for
              campfires at camp, and I like having older teens and young adults
              there whom they can learn about new groups and genres from. That's
              how they learned about the sound track from "Oh, Brother, Where Art
              Thou." Given that they're not going to sit around comparing Georgian
              chant to Bulgarian, we owe it to them to listen to what they listen
              to, and help them reach decisions about what it teaches and where it
              leads. Beyond that, we have the "Fr. N. test," which is, "Don't play
              music for yourself that you would be embarrassed to listen to in
              front of the priest." Depending on how cool a priest they choose for
              the N., there can be quite a range, but it weeds out anything too
              depressing or depraved.

              In Christ,
              Matushka Ann
            • ourlittlecity@aol.com
              In a message dated 2/1/2005 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 7848@adelphia.net writes: Can you imagine...treatises on ascetic life, prayer
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 1 3:37 PM
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                In a message dated 2/1/2005 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                7848@... writes:
                Can you imagine...treatises
                on ascetic life, prayer and.......head-bangers.
                A modern version of Stylites? I know I feel like banging my head when
                circumstances have dictated that I must hear unwanted IIchin music.

                rdr. john dunn


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