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Re: music our kids listen to

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  • Reader Michael Malloy
    Two comments: The Heavy Metal thing in Columbus was blown way out of proportion by the local media here. And I very much believe too much was made over the
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 31, 2005
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      Two comments:

      The "Heavy Metal" thing in Columbus was blown way out of proportion by
      the local media here. And I very much believe too much was made over
      the fans of this stuff. It was presented in a normal way, as if this
      stuff was good for people. THAT makes me sick.

      On the comments about good music to listen to, I could go on for hours
      but I don't want to clutter the list and I can't stay up that late anyway.

      Just this past weekend our priest spoke about the effects of music,
      but he was talking more about classical music. I think there are some
      extremes that were mentioned which I don't agree with. For instance,
      Mozart was on the list of composers considered somewhat dangerous. OK,
      so Mozart was a Mason, and his operas are...well, they're operas!
      Opera by its nature is very un-Orthodox Christian. The discussion
      went into Goethe and other philosphers who were infulential in the
      19th century. I guess Richard Strauss is right out if you want to be
      picky about it. I happen to love his music and I disagree with his
      sources of inspiration. I've played orchestral music by R. Strauss -
      Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegle, etc. It is very well crafted music.

      What do the rest of you think about classical music? Where do you draw
      the lines?

      With a bachelor of music (musicology) I am influenced by my
      experiences and my studies. I firmly believe classical music is almost
      100% perfectly good for Christians to listen to.

      Reader Michael Malloy
      Columbus OH
    • Fr. Alexis Duncan
      You mention coming to church twice a week. Father, you indeed are a fanatic! Actually I tried once to suggest to someone that a good barometer of a healthy
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
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        You mention coming to church twice a week. Father, you
        indeed are a fanatic!

        Actually I tried once to suggest to someone that a good
        "barometer" of a healthy family life is their attendance at
        the Vigil on Saturdays and feasts. The ones who make this a
        point seem better off. Of course, it is just a barometer
        that reflects that the parents do a far greater job at home.
        Then I have seen families where the children are far from
        the Church and begin to be big trouble; parents who never
        wanted to impose on the children to bring them to church and
        the and then they weep in disbelief and ask "Why?". In the
        end it seems that the parents are the ones we need to reach.

        _________________________________________________


        Fr. Alexis Duncan
        Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
        Atlanta, GA
        www.orthodoxinfo.biz

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Fr. Michael Crowley [mailto:tcrowley@...]
        Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:01 PM
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] music our kids listen to



        My approach as a parent and priest has been to look for
        every
        opportunity to immerse the senses of my children (both
        kinds) in
        Orthodox culture and/or the best of the "fallen good" of
        Western
        culture. This is often time consuming and expensive and so I
        continually
        fall short since I am far from being unselfish. I have
        though, been able
        to recognize the difference when efforts are made.
        I tell new/young parents to keep this kind of music out of
        their homes,
        to severely limit TV viewing (better to not even have one),
        etc. and
        conversely present beautiful music and images as much as
        possible.
        Coming to Church at least twice a week saves a lot of work
        on the
        parents' part!
      • Fr. Alexis Duncan
        Classical is the least of our worries I feel. Of course during Lent it is avoided by most families. Actually, growing up I heard it at home and became
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
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          Classical is the least of our worries I feel. Of course
          during Lent it is avoided by most families. Actually,
          growing up I heard it at home and became interested on my
          own. Now that I am growing older, I have little taste for
          it. Odd.

          There are some very interesting theories about music. The
          Greeks had the various modes classified as to the effects
          they had on the soul. Seems reasonable to me. Perhaps
          someone with more knowledge about this can offer these
          insights.

          Maybe there is really not much we can do about kids (or
          adults!) listening to head-banging music. The culture of
          head-bangers is what is frightening. I recently saw a couple
          of "blogs" (bizarre things aren't they...for the Andy Warhol
          fame seekers) of Orthodox Christians that listed their
          favorite bands...head-bangers! Can you imagine...treatises
          on ascetic life, prayer and.......head-bangers.

          _________________________________________________


          Fr. Alexis Duncan
          Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
          Atlanta, GA
          www.orthodoxinfo.biz


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Reader Michael Malloy
          [mailto:sputnikpsalomschchika@...]
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:59 PM
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: music our kids listen to

          Two comments:

          The "Heavy Metal" thing in Columbus was blown way out of
          proportion by
          the local media here. And I very much believe too much was
          made over
          the fans of this stuff. It was presented in a normal way, as
          if this
          stuff was good for people. THAT makes me sick.

          On the comments about good music to listen to, I could go on
          for hours
          but I don't want to clutter the list and I can't stay up
          that late anyway.

          Just this past weekend our priest spoke about the effects of
          music,
          but he was talking more about classical music. I think
          there are some
          extremes that were mentioned which I don't agree with. For
          instance,
          Mozart was on the list of composers considered somewhat
          dangerous. OK,
          so Mozart was a Mason, and his operas are...well, they're
          operas!
          Opera by its nature is very un-Orthodox Christian. The
          discussion
          went into Goethe and other philosphers who were infulential
          in the
          19th century. I guess Richard Strauss is right out if you
          want to be
          picky about it. I happen to love his music and I disagree
          with his
          sources of inspiration. I've played orchestral music by R.
          Strauss -
          Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegle, etc. It is very well crafted
          music.

          What do the rest of you think about classical music? Where
          do you draw
          the lines?
        • larry most
          GLORY TO JESUS CHRISST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER Dear Reader Michael, I like most kinds of music and especially classical music.(Not the piecies that sound like 2
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
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            GLORY TO JESUS CHRISST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
            Dear Reader Michael,
            I like most kinds of music and especially classical
            music.(Not the piecies that sound like 2 cats on the
            piano or what I lovingly refer to as "hungarian
            funeral music"). The problem nowdays (I'm dating
            myself) is that what is called "music" isn't music at
            all. I is either a beat with a bunch of words (that
            you really don't want to understand) or a bunch of
            literally banging on guitars and screaming lyrics that
            are sometimes cute and sometimes not. Just my humble
            opinion, so I hope I didn't offend you.
            Love in Christ,
            Sub-deacon Lawrence
            --- Reader Michael Malloy
            <sputnikpsalomschchika@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Two comments:
            >
            > The "Heavy Metal" thing in Columbus was blown way
            > out of proportion by
            > the local media here. And I very much believe too
            > much was made over
            > the fans of this stuff. It was presented in a normal
            > way, as if this
            > stuff was good for people. THAT makes me sick.
            >
            > On the comments about good music to listen to, I
            > could go on for hours
            > but I don't want to clutter the list and I can't
            > stay up that late anyway.
            >
            > Just this past weekend our priest spoke about the
            > effects of music,
            > but he was talking more about classical music. I
            > think there are some
            > extremes that were mentioned which I don't agree
            > with. For instance,
            > Mozart was on the list of composers considered
            > somewhat dangerous. OK,
            > so Mozart was a Mason, and his operas are...well,
            > they're operas!
            > Opera by its nature is very un-Orthodox Christian.
            > The discussion
            > went into Goethe and other philosphers who were
            > infulential in the
            > 19th century. I guess Richard Strauss is right out
            > if you want to be
            > picky about it. I happen to love his music and I
            > disagree with his
            > sources of inspiration. I've played orchestral music
            > by R. Strauss -
            > Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegle, etc. It is very well
            > crafted music.
            >
            > What do the rest of you think about classical music?
            > Where do you draw
            > the lines?
            >
            > With a bachelor of music (musicology) I am
            > influenced by my
            > experiences and my studies. I firmly believe
            > classical music is almost
            > 100% perfectly good for Christians to listen to.
            >
            > Reader Michael Malloy
            > Columbus OH
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Fr. Michael Crowley
            I believe that it is the parents who we need to address. Unfortunately, by the time the kids are teens and the parents see the result of their spiritual
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
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              I believe that it is the parents who we need to address. Unfortunately,
              by the time the kids are teens and the parents see the result of their
              spiritual "neglect" it is almost too late. Thank God we have places like
              St. Seraphim Camp where we can nurture these higher values and encourage
              relationships with peers who then become co-strugglers. We have heard
              more than one report of kids going home from camp and goading their
              parents into bringing them to church!
              What is it with people? They claim that they are tired at the end of the
              week from working, need time for themselves, need time for their
              family... How come so many of us also work full time jobs and do not
              feel that the Church interferes at all, rather just the opposite? It
              almost takes some catastrophic event to wake us up to the incredible
              gift and beauty of the Church! Perhaps some of us have gotten close
              enough to the edge of the cliff in the past.
              Back to the subject -- parents have to start immediately, from birth, to
              instill the love of Beauty and Truth into their children. Excellence in
              academics and/or sports in themselves are not bad things, but will
              ultimately not suffice. I bring this up because these two things seem to
              dominate the hopes of many of the parents (who at least make the effort
              to care!) that I know or hear about. If their kids are good at at least
              one of these they have a chance of "fitting in." If they "fit in" the
              have a great chance of being "successful" and having a "comfortable"
              life. Again, I am not against success or comfort (if that means adequate
              food, clothing and shelter, a loving spouse, etc.), but when these are
              given preeminence over virtue and faithfulness there is sure to be
              disaster ahead.
              Way back to the original subject -- most of the main stream contemporary
              music is intoxicating -- like a drug or alcohol. We should keep our kids
              away from it for as long as we can. But it does not work to only
              withhold -- we must also give something better.
              This is what cuts deep into our own selfishness and/or wallets!

              Fr. Michael

              Fr. Alexis Duncan wrote:

              >You mention coming to church twice a week. Father, you
              >indeed are a fanatic!
              >
              >Actually I tried once to suggest to someone that a good
              >"barometer" of a healthy family life is their attendance at
              >the Vigil on Saturdays and feasts. The ones who make this a
              >point seem better off. Of course, it is just a barometer
              >that reflects that the parents do a far greater job at home.
              >Then I have seen families where the children are far from
              >the Church and begin to be big trouble; parents who never
              >wanted to impose on the children to bring them to church and
              >the and then they weep in disbelief and ask "Why?". In the
              >end it seems that the parents are the ones we need to reach.
              >
              >_________________________________________________
              >
              >
              >Fr. Alexis Duncan
              >Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
              >Atlanta, GA
              >www.orthodoxinfo.biz
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: Fr. Michael Crowley [mailto:tcrowley@...]
              >Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:01 PM
              >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] music our kids listen to
              >
              >
              >
              >My approach as a parent and priest has been to look for
              >every
              >opportunity to immerse the senses of my children (both
              >kinds) in
              >Orthodox culture and/or the best of the "fallen good" of
              >Western
              >culture. This is often time consuming and expensive and so I
              >continually
              >fall short since I am far from being unselfish. I have
              >though, been able
              >to recognize the difference when efforts are made.
              >I tell new/young parents to keep this kind of music out of
              >their homes,
              >to severely limit TV viewing (better to not even have one),
              >etc. and
              >conversely present beautiful music and images as much as
              >possible.
              >Coming to Church at least twice a week saves a lot of work
              >on the
              >parents' part!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • (matushka) Ann Lardas
              Father, bless! I ve discovered that it s important for parents to listen to what their children like. Three of ours are teenagers and the other wants to be. We
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
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                Father, bless!

                I've discovered that it's important for parents to listen to what
                their children like. Three of ours are teenagers and the other wants
                to be. We have a rule that if they are helping with the housework,
                the kids get to choose the music. This way, I know what they're
                listening to. Lately, they've discovered things from the seventies
                and eighties -- Weird Al and Tom Lehrer -- but we also get Blink182
                and Smashmouth and the like. When the kids get a funny look on their
                faces and say, "We're going to skip the next track," then I know that
                they know that it's no good. This is a good thing. There are CD's and
                even groups that we just don't listen to any more after I got a good
                earful. We often borrow CD's from the library before buying them for
                just that reason. But from this the older kids have learned what is
                and isn't acceptable. And that's an important life skill. After all,
                I can't go to college with them and sit in the dorm sorting through
                cd's. They have to learn how to censor their own listening.

                Children who play a musical instrument sometimes have more
                discernment and a greater opportunity to police their own musical
                choices. Our crew has discovered Irish music, some of which is not
                very lenten but most of which tells a story or offers a moral.

                The computer is a big help, in that kids today can download specific
                songs and ignore the ones they don't like, making custom tailored
                cd's or ipods or whatever. Fr. Peter is big on explaining that they
                need to pay licensing for what they listen to, which I appreciate.
                But whatever they download, parents have to listen to it, even if
                it's torture to do so.

                When our oldest was ten, the bus driver used to play rap on the bus
                radio, and a parishioner gave her a little AM/FM radio of her own.
                She wanted to play the rap station at home, KBOX, and I let her on
                the condition that I listen, too. The words went by too fast for her
                to notice, but I heard them just fine, and when my eyebrows went back
                down to where they normally belong again, I came up with a strategy
                for getting her to abandon the station on her own. I chose one song
                and made it my "favorite." It had a chorus which went:

                Hurricane, but you can call me Flurricane.
                Hurricane, but you can call me Flurricane.
                Flurricane, but you can call me Hurricane.
                Hurricane, but you can call me Hurricane.

                And that's the repeatable part.

                Anyway, every time this song came on, I followed the teenybopper
                ettiquete and made everyone be quiet so I could listen. And sing
                along. And dance. No matter who was over. No matter what they were
                doing.

                It took her less than a week to find the classic channel, and rap has
                not entered since.

                FWIW, I like the music that the kids play when they get together for
                campfires at camp, and I like having older teens and young adults
                there whom they can learn about new groups and genres from. That's
                how they learned about the sound track from "Oh, Brother, Where Art
                Thou." Given that they're not going to sit around comparing Georgian
                chant to Bulgarian, we owe it to them to listen to what they listen
                to, and help them reach decisions about what it teaches and where it
                leads. Beyond that, we have the "Fr. N. test," which is, "Don't play
                music for yourself that you would be embarrassed to listen to in
                front of the priest." Depending on how cool a priest they choose for
                the N., there can be quite a range, but it weeds out anything too
                depressing or depraved.

                In Christ,
                Matushka Ann
              • ourlittlecity@aol.com
                In a message dated 2/1/2005 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 7848@adelphia.net writes: Can you imagine...treatises on ascetic life, prayer
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 1, 2005
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                  In a message dated 2/1/2005 10:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  7848@... writes:
                  Can you imagine...treatises
                  on ascetic life, prayer and.......head-bangers.
                  A modern version of Stylites? I know I feel like banging my head when
                  circumstances have dictated that I must hear unwanted IIchin music.

                  rdr. john dunn


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