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Alexis II supports eucumenical movement of Taize

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  • goossir
    Taiz¨¦ Event to Gather Thousands in Lisbon LISBON, Portugal, DEC. 19, 2004 (Zenit.org).- A letter from the founder of the Taiz¨¦ Community will be the
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 29, 2004
      Taiz¨¦ Event to Gather Thousands in Lisbon

      LISBON, Portugal, DEC. 19, 2004 (Zenit.org).- A letter from the
      founder of the Taiz¨¦ Community will be the basis for a meeting of
      40,000 young people Dec. 28-Jan. 1 in Lisbon.

      "Multitudes aspire today to a future of peace, to a humanity freed
      from threats of violence," Brother Roger states in his letter,
      entitled "A Future of Peace." "If some are overwhelmed by anxiety
      about the future and find themselves immobilized, there are others in
      the world who are creative young people, full of ingenuity."

      In his Letter for 2005, the founder of the ecumenical Taiz¨¦ Community
      expresses his confidence in the new generations not only because of
      their capacity to want peace, but also because of their capacity to
      prepare themselves to build it.

      Throughout Europe, thousands of young people are preparing to attend
      the 27th "Pilgrimage of Trust on Earth."

      Letters of support for the event have come from John Paul II;
      Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople; Russian Orthodox
      Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow; Anglican Archbishop Rowan Williams of
      Canterbury; and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

      Since 1978, Taiz¨¦ has organized a year-end event aimed at bringing
      young people together to meet and pray and to deepen their faith.

      Ecumenical worship in Taize with participants from various christian
      confessions, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox etc


      In Damascus, in the Middle East beset by trials, there lives the
      Greek Orthodox patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius IV. He has written
      these striking words:
      "The ecumenical movement is going backwards. What remains of the
      prophetic event of the early days incarnated in figures like Pope
      John XXIII and Patriarch Athenagoras? Our divisions make Christ
      unrecognizable; they are contrary to his will to see us be one 'so
      that the world may believe.' We have an urgent need for prophetic
      initiatives in order to bring ecumenism out of the twists and turns
      in which I fear it is getting stuck. We have an urgent need for
      prophets and saints to help our Churches to be converted by mutual
      forgiveness."........


      Here is some of the materials contributed by Concerned Orthodox
      Clergyman Father Peter on Current Taize activities .

      Taize, a European center of sycretistic ecumenism which inculcates
      this vision of things into young people, was recently endorsed, with
      supportive letters, by the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Moscow,
      according to the second news article (see below).
      But what are they endorsing?...For anyone who has read about
      Taize (Tey-ze)*, the answer is easy:
      a dreamy, worldly "spiritual" movement founded during the heady days
      after WWII within the atmosphere of a utopian Protestantism;
      an ecumenism born out of, and conditioned upon, the divisions and
      problematic unique to the Protestant and Papist world, utterly
      unrelated to the Orthodox experience and outlook.
      a Churchless (read: Christless) Christianity (count, for example how
      many times you read the words Lord Jesus Christ below...=0 ),
      a spirituality which detaches truth from the virtues ("peace, love,
      joy" - new age catch-words today) and exalts them like idols to be
      worshipped in and of themselves.
      But can one become virtuous without Virtue Himself? Is He divided
      against himself, such that Light and Truth, the upright confession of
      Faith, is in conflict with every good gift ("peace, love, joy") which
      flows from the Father of Lights?

      Rather than endorsing a deluded and deluding "inter-faith"
      sycretistic center of ecumenism, which puts dogmatic truth and
      confession decidely on the back-burner or in the "storehouse",
      shouldn't the Heads of the Orthodox Church be directing their
      children away from such deadly gatherings?

      Let us take head: dogmatic minimalism and indifference leads
      away from our Lord Christ Jesus and into that darkness in which
      man "knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded
      his eyes" (1 John 2:11), according to the word of the Lord: "If the
      light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" (Mat.
      6:23), and according to the word of the Beloved Apostle:"God is
      light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have
      fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the
      truth" (1 John 1:6). -- -- ¦Ð. ¦Ð.¦Ö.

      *See: "The Story of Taize", J.L. Gonzalez Balado, Mowbray, 1981,
      1988, London.
      =====================================


      =======================================
      Article published Saturday, December 11, 2004

      Taize services are a time to worship, reflect quietly

      BLADE RELIGION EDITOR


      In the midst of the hectic holiday season, some Toledoans are taking
      time out for spiritual reflection and worship by taking part in
      quiet, reflective Taize services.
      In a church illuminated by candles, with soft music emanating from
      piano and flute, worshippers chant prayers and sing choruses, called
      ostinatos.

      Taize (pronounced teh-ZAY) services are held throughout the year, not
      just during the holidays, by numerous religious traditions, including
      Roman Catholic and many mainline Protestant churches.

      At Sylvania United Church of Christ, between 10 and 20 people gather
      on the third Thursday of every month for the 45-minute Taize
      services.

      Ann Lindsley of Toledo, one of the regular participants in Sylvania
      UCC's Taize services, said she discovered Taize about seven years ago
      and attended her first service at Notre Dame Academy.

      "I just fell in love with it from the very beginning," she said.

      The services are named for the small village of Taize in the southern
      region of Burgundy, France, where the movement was started by Brother
      Roger, a Reformed Church clergyman from Switzerland.

      Brother Roger settled in Taize in 1940, when he was 25, and after
      spending two years in prayer and isolation, began sheltering
      refugees, particularly Jews fleeing Nazi persecution.

      He was aided by a growing number

      of clergymen and townspeople, and before long a religious community
      began to blossom in Taize.

      Its daily prayer services and music began to attract pilgrims from
      throughout Europe, and today Taize draws thousands of people from
      around the world to its thrice-daily services.

      Ms. Lindsley, who teaches French at Maumee Valley Country Day School
      and Westside Montessori School, traveled to France in the summer of
      1998, less than a year after attending her first Taize service in
      Toledo, and made a trip to Taize.

      "The community was founded by Brother Roger to try to bring people
      together for reconciliation and peace," she said. "The themes of
      Taize are trust, simplicity, and joy."

      Visitors to Taize are usually greeted by one of the religious
      community's brothers or sisters, who explain the concept of the
      services to newcomers.

      The tiny French village was overflowing with young people who, in
      between services, sat in groups discussing the Bible and
      spirituality, Ms. Lindsley said.

      "It is just a beautiful place," she said. "I was so impressed. When I
      went there the first time, we missed the noon prayer. So I decided I
      wanted to get back."

      Ms. Lindsley made a second trip to Taize last summer, and "this time
      we did get to go to all the prayer services," she said. "It was in
      this huge, huge structure .¡ñ.¡ñ. with candles and icons. Then they
      just sing these chants, over and over again, just beautiful little
      prayer songs. Brother Roger actually was there. He walked in with his
      white robe. It was very exciting."

      Organizers of the Taize services at Sylvania UCC hope to capture that
      same combination of peace, reverence, and spiritual excitement, she
      said.

      "The whole idea, for me, is to sing these chants over and over
      again," Ms. Lindsley said. "You get away from the world, and you get
      into a meditative position."

      After the chants, participants read prayers aloud and take time for
      silent prayer and reflection, striving for inner peace.

      Taize services are held at 7 p.m. on the third Thursday of the month
      at Sylvania United Church of Christ, 7240 Erie St., Sylvania.

      - David Yonke

      ======================================================================
      =========

      The world is desperately in search of peace and security, but without
      first having a love of Truth, Who is Christ. Even so-called
      Christians have joined their voices to the "peace chorus" and share
      the dreamy notion of "peace on earth" as the pre-eminent good, above
      all others, even that of Truth. They go so far as to by-pass the need
      for agreement in faith and concensus in dogmatic truth in the name of
      unity and communion now. They apparently have no discernment of the
      spirits, nor make an distinction between the peace which Christ
      brought with His incarnation and that which the world seeks today - a
      Christless, truthless, peace, which Christ, naturally condemns,
      according to His words: "Think not that I am come to send peace on
      earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Mat. 10:34).

      Following this line of thinking, below Brother Roger encourages
      Christians to enter into communion with one another, without waiting
      for an agreement on dogmatic truth. He says that in spite of apparent
      divisions, "in the heart of God the Church is one" - that is, being
      interpreted, all Christians are united in an invisible Church. He
      even quotes the Patriarch of Antioch in support of his call for
      radical measures to be taken to acheive unity and communion as soon
      as possible.

      Keep in mind the following words of the Apostle Paul when reading
      this text:

      "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
      cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall
      not escape." (1 Th. 5:3) -- ¦Ð. ¦Ð.¦Ö.

      =====================================================

      Brother Roger of Taiz¨¦'s Letter for 2005
      "A Future of Peace"

      TAIZE, France, DEC. 25, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Here is the letter written
      by Brother Roger, founder of the ecumenical Taiz¨¦ Community, in
      connection with the Dec. 28-Jan. 1 meeting of young people in Lisbon,
      Portugal. The occasion is the 27th "Pilgrimage of Trust on Earth."

      The letter will be the subject of meditations during the coming year
      in young people's meetings in Taiz¨¦ and elsewhere.

      * * *

      "A Future of Peace"
      by Brother Roger, Taiz¨¦ Community

      "God has plans for a future of peace for you, not of misfortune; God
      wants to give you a future and a hope."1

      Today, a great many people are longing for a future of peace, for
      humanity to be freed from threats of violence.

      If some are gripped by worry about the future and find themselves at
      a standstill, there are also young people all over the world who are
      inventive and creative.

      These young people do not let themselves be caught up in a spiral of
      gloom. They know that God did not create us to be passive. For them,
      life is not subject to a blind destiny. They are aware that
      skepticism and discouragement have the power to paralyze human
      beings.

      And so they are searching, with their whole soul, to prepare a future
      of peace and not of misfortune. More than they realize, they are
      already making of their lives a light that shines around them.

      Some are bearers of peace and trust in situations of crisis and
      conflict. They keep going even when trials or failures weigh heavily
      on their shoulders.2

      On some summer evenings in Taiz¨¦, under a sky laden with stars, we
      can hear the young people through our open windows. We are constantly
      astonished that there are so many of them. They search; they pray.
      And we say to ourselves: Their aspirations to peace and trust are
      like these stars, points of lights that shine in the night.

      We live at a time when many people are asking: What is faith? Faith
      is a simple trust in God, an indispensable surge of trusting
      undertaken countless times over in the course of our life.

      All of us can have doubts. They are nothing to worry about. Our
      deepest desire is to listen to Christ who whispers in our hearts, "Do
      you have hesitations? Don't worry; the Holy Spirit remains with you
      always."3

      Some, to their surprise, have made this discovery: God's love can
      come to fulfillment even in a heart touched by doubts.4

      One of the first things Christ says in the Gospel is this: "Happy the
      simple-hearted!"5 Yes, happy those who head towards simplicity,
      simplicity of heart and simplicity of life.

      A simple heart attempts to live in the present moment, to welcome
      each day as God's today.

      Does not the spirit of simplicity shine out in serene joy, and also
      in cheerfulness?

      A simple heart does not claim to understand everything about faith on
      its own. It says to itself, "Others understand better what I have
      trouble grasping and they help me to continue on my way."6

      Simplifying our life enables us to share with the least fortunate, in
      order to alleviate suffering where there is disease, poverty,
      famine ...7

      Our personal prayer is also simple. Do we think that many words are
      needed in order to pray?8 No. A few words, even inept ones, are
      enough to entrust everything to God, our fears as well as our hopes.

      By surrendering ourselves to the Holy Spirit, we will find the way
      that leads from worry to confident trust.9 And we tell him:

      "Holy Spirit, enable us
      to turn to you at every moment.
      So often we forget that you dwell within us,
      that you pray in us, that you love in us.
      Your presence in us is trust
      and constant forgiveness."

      Yes, the Holy Spirit kindles a glimmer of light within us. However
      faint it may be, it awakens in our hearts the desire for God. And the
      simple desire for God is already prayer. Prayer does not make us less
      involved in the world. On the contrary, nothing is more responsible
      than to pray. The more we make our own a prayer which is simple and
      humble, the more we are led to love and to express it with our life.

      Where can we find the simplicity indispensable for living out the
      Gospel? Some words of Christ enlighten us. One day he said to his
      disciples, "Let the little children come to me; the realities of God
      are for those who are like them."10

      Who can express adequately what some children can communicate by
      their trusting?11

      And so we would like to say to God: "God, you love us: turn us into
      people who are humble; give us great simplicity in our prayer, in
      human relationships, in welcoming others ..."

      Jesus, the Christ, came to earth not to condemn anyone but to open
      paths of communion for human beings.

      For 2,000 years Christ has been present through the Holy Spirit,12
      and his mysterious presence is made tangible in a visible communion13
      that brings together women, men and young people who are called to go
      forward together, without separating from one another.14

      And yet throughout their history Christians have experienced many
      upheavals: Separations have arisen between those who nonetheless
      professed faith in the same God of love.

      Re-establishing communion is urgent today; it cannot continually be
      put off until later, until the end of time.15 Will we do all we can
      for Christians to wake up to the spirit of communion?16

      There are Christians who, without waiting, are already in communion
      with one another in the places where they live, quite humbly, quite
      simply.17

      Through their own life, they would like to make Christ present for
      many others. They know that the Church does not exist for itself but
      for the world, to place within it a ferment of peace.

      "Communion" is one of the most beautiful names of the Church. In it,
      there can be no harsh words exchanged but only transparency,
      heartfelt kindness, compassion ... and the gates of holiness swing
      open.

      The Gospel lets us discover this surprising reality: God creates
      neither fear nor worry. All God can do is love us.

      By the presence of the Holy Spirit, God comes to transfigure our
      hearts.

      And in a simple prayer, we can sense that we are never alone: The
      Holy Spirit sustains in us a communion with God, not just for a
      fleeting moment but right on into the life which never ends.

      --- --- ---

      1 These words were written 600 years before Christ. See Jeremiah
      29:11 and 31:17.

      2 This year when 10 new countries have joined the European Union,
      many young Europeans are aware that they live on a continent which,
      after having suffered from divisions and conflicts for many years, is
      now searching for unity and moving forward on the road of peace.
      Tensions remain, of course, as well as forms of injustice and even
      violence, which awaken doubts. The important thing is not to stop
      ahead of time: The search for peace lies at the very foundation of
      the building up of Europe. But this would be of no interest if its
      only purpose were to create a stronger, richer continent, and if
      Europe succumbed to the temptation to withdraw within its own
      borders. Europe becomes fully itself when it is open to other
      continents, in solidarity with poor nations. Its construction has
      meaning when it is seen as a step forward in the service of peace for
      the entire human family. That is why, if our meeting at the end of
      the year is called "a European meeting," we prefer to view it as
      a "pilgrimage of trust on earth."

      3 See John 14:16-18,27. God exists independently of our faith or our
      doubts. When there is doubt within us, that does not mean that God
      has left us.

      4 One day Dostoyevsky wrote in his Notebook: "I am a child of doubt
      and unbelief. What terrible suffering it has cost me and still costs
      me, this longing to believe, which is so much the stronger in my soul
      as more arguments against it rise up within me. ... My 'hosanna' has
      passed through the crucible of doubt." And yet Dostoyevsky could also
      write: "There is nothing more beautiful, more profound and more
      perfect than Christ. Not only is there nothing, but there can be
      nothing." When that man of God suggests that the nonbeliever co-
      exists in him with the believer, his passionate love for Christ still
      remains undiminished.

      5 Matthew 5:3.

      6 Even if our trust remains fragile, we do not rely only on our own
      faith but on the trust of all those who have gone before us as well
      as those who are around us.

      7 The U.N. World Food Program recently published a map of world
      hunger. Despite the progress accomplished in the last few years, 840
      million people suffer from hunger, including 180 million children
      under the age of 5.

      8 See Matthew 6:7-8

      9 This road of surrender can be sustained by simple songs, sung over
      and over again, such as this one: "My soul finds rest and peace in
      God alone." While we work or when we rest, these songs keep echoing
      within our hearts.

      10 Matthew 19:14

      11 A 9-year-old boy who came to pray with us for a week said to me
      one day, "My father left us. I never see him, but I still love him
      and at night I pray for him."

      12 See 1 Peter 3:18; Romans 1:4; 1 Timothy 3:16.

      13 That communion is called the Church. In the heart of God, the
      Church is one; it cannot be divided.

      14 The closer we come to the Gospel, the closer we come to one
      another. And the separations that tear us apart draw to an end.

      15 Christ calls us to be reconciled without delay. We cannot forget
      his words in the Gospel according to St. Matthew: "When you are
      offering your gift at the altar, if you remember that your brother or
      sister has something against you, first go and be reconciled" (5:23-
      24). "First go" not "Put it off till later."

      16 In Damascus, in the Middle East beset by trials, there lives the
      Greek Orthodox patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius IV. He has written
      these striking words: "The ecumenical movement is going backwards.
      What remains of the prophetic event of the early days incarnated in
      figures like Pope John XXIII and Patriarch Athenagoras? Our divisions
      make Christ unrecognizable; they are contrary to his will to see us
      be one 'so that the world may believe.' We have an urgent need for
      prophetic initiatives in order to bring ecumenism out of the twists
      and turns in which I fear it is getting stuck. We have an urgent need
      for prophets and saints to help our Churches to be converted by
      mutual forgiveness."

      17 During his visit to Taiz¨¦ on Oct. 5, 1986, Pope John Paul II
      suggested a path to communion by saying to our community: "By
      desiring to be yourselves a 'parable of community,' you will help all
      whom you meet to be faithful to their denominational ties, the fruit
      of their education and their choice in conscience, but also to enter
      more and more deeply into the mystery of communion that the Church is
      in God's plan."
      ZE04122522
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      JRS: Patriarch Alexy simply wrote a polite letter, expressing good wishes (which can also imply God s direction and conversion of these people to Orthodoxy!)
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 29, 2004
        JRS: Patriarch Alexy simply wrote a polite letter, expressing good
        wishes (which can also imply God's direction and conversion of these
        people to Orthodoxy!) -- not a confession of ecumenism, or a denial of
        the Orthodox faith.

        However, a letter written by Varnava of Cannes, while he was still a
        ROCOR bishop, asked the Ukrainian "samosvjaty" for mutual
        ecclesiastical recognition.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • tfisher888@aol.com
        Yeah, and militant vagueness and multi-valence is a hallmark of Anglicanism/Episcopalianism and Ecumenism, its bastard child.... I.e., more blather from Fr. J
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 29, 2004
          Yeah, and militant vagueness and multi-valence is a hallmark of
          Anglicanism/Episcopalianism and Ecumenism, its bastard child....
          I.e., more blather from Fr. J Shaw (one of the more Internet vocal
          proponents of ignoring the MP's history, all in the name of "love")...
          TF



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • vkozyreff
          Dear Father John, bless. Did you read message 13300 about the movement that Alexi II politely endorses? (see below) Do we understand that the ROCOR is soon to
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 29, 2004
            Dear Father John, bless.

            Did you read message 13300 about the movement that Alexi II politely
            endorses? (see below)

            Do we understand that the ROCOR is soon to be politely associated
            with this all?

            Alexi II says that the youth is Europe's future. Our Met. Philaret
            used to say that the (true) Church is the future of the youth.

            Former bishop Varnava's mistakes do not erase Alexi II's, as my sins
            do not erase yours.

            In God,

            Vladimir Kozyreff



            "Taize, a European center of sycretistic ecumenism which inculcates
            this vision of things into young people, was recently endorsed, with
            supportive letters, by the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Moscow,
            according to the second news article (see below).

            But what are they endorsing?...For anyone who has read about
            Taize (Tey-ze)*, the answer is easy: a dreamy, worldly "spiritual"
            movement founded during the heady days after WWII within the
            atmosphere of a utopian Protestantism; an ecumenism born out of, and
            conditioned upon, the divisions and problematic unique to the
            Protestant and Papist world, utterly unrelated to the Orthodox
            experience and outlook".



            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
            <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > JRS: Patriarch Alexy simply wrote a polite letter, expressing good
            > wishes (which can also imply God's direction and conversion of
            these
            > people to Orthodoxy!) -- not a confession of ecumenism, or a
            denial of
            > the Orthodox faith.
            >
            > However, a letter written by Varnava of Cannes, while he was still
            a
            > ROCOR bishop, asked the Ukrainian "samosvjaty" for mutual
            > ecclesiastical recognition.
            >
            > In Christ
            > Fr. John R. Shaw
          • ourlittlecity@aol.com
            A swift boat rebuttle... rdr. john dunn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 29, 2004
              A swift boat rebuttle...

              rdr. john dunn


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • vkozyreff
              Dear Father John, bless. Below is what I would consider the best reaction towards rising ecumenism. I do not know whether it is polite or not. For this
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 30, 2004
                Dear Father John, bless.

                Below is what I would consider the best reaction towards rising
                ecumenism. I do not know whether it is polite or not.

                "For this indifference we alone shall be to blame".

                In God,

                Vladimir Kozyreff

                Ecumanism is now at the very doors of our Church...in all
                probability special steps will be undertaken for us, a special
                tactic will be employed. We must be ready for this...

                unquestionably a strong attack will be made on the mass of our
                believers, among whom there are not a few souls, some of whom will
                yield being seduced by the thought of union, fearing their
                isolation, and others being tempted by advantages, a better
                situation, in a word by the golden calf.

                ... If ecumenism will begin to fill its ranks with our Orthodox
                Christians, who will be indifferent to the truths of our teaching,
                for this indifference we alone shall be to blame.

                ...The Symbol of Faith is not our declaration of our doctrine, not
                our memorandum of the faith, but a labor of prayer on the part of
                all the powers of our soul.

                Met Vitaly


                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
                <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > JRS: Patriarch Alexy simply wrote a polite letter, expressing good
                > wishes (which can also imply God's direction and conversion of
                these
                > people to Orthodoxy!) -- not a confession of ecumenism, or a
                denial of
                > the Orthodox faith.
                >
                > However, a letter written by Varnava of Cannes, while he was still
                a
                > ROCOR bishop, asked the Ukrainian "samosvjaty" for mutual
                > ecclesiastical recognition.
                >
                > In Christ
                > Fr. John R. Shaw
              • Fr. John R. Shaw
                ... JRS: Not with Taize. But we are not automatically associated with everyone the Patriarch writes a letter to! ... JRS: I am afraid that, if things continue
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 30, 2004
                  Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:

                  > Do we understand that the ROCOR is soon to be politely associated
                  > with this all?

                  JRS: Not with Taize.

                  But we are not automatically associated with everyone the Patriarch
                  writes a letter to!

                  > Alexi II says that the youth is Europe's future. Our Met. Philaret
                  > used to say that the (true) Church is the future of the youth.

                  JRS: I am afraid that, if things continue as they are now going,
                  Europe's future is more likely to become Islam, than either of the
                  above.

                  In Christ
                  Fr. John R. Shaw
                • David Stavro
                  ... Wake up, please and look around; before both the Church and youth are long gone. The priority is to contain and neutralize the threat to both. In doing so;
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 30, 2004
                    --- "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:

                    > Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:
                    >
                    > > Alexi II says that the youth is Europe's future.
                    > > Our Met. Philaret used to say that the (true)
                    > > Church is the future of the youth.



                    Wake up, please and look around; before both the
                    Church and youth are long gone. The priority is to
                    contain and neutralize the threat to both. In doing
                    so; we have to identify and quantify this threat. The
                    major part of this threat lies within ourselves.




                    > JRS: I am afraid that, if things continue as they
                    > are now going, Europe's future is more likely to
                    > become Islam, than either of the above.
                    >
                    > In Christ
                    > Fr. John R. Shaw


                    Dear father Shaw:

                    Your statement above is the most perfect conclusion to
                    the political-religious feud baptized by republicans
                    in the USA. Alas, many Orthodox are Don-Quixote-ly
                    running around waving the flag of anathema, heresy,
                    etc., i.e., distracted counting there cents forgetting
                    the diamonds. Mecca�s syndrome, eh?

                    Please pray for me, best wishes, happy new year and
                    merry X-mass,


                    Stavro.


                    __________________________________________________
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                  • vkozyreff
                    Dear Father John, bless. When Alexi II says that youth is the future of Europe, he is right. By definition, youth is the future in this world. When making such
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 30, 2004
                      Dear Father John, bless.

                      When Alexi II says that youth is the future of Europe, he is right.
                      By definition, youth is the future in this world. When making such a
                      statement, Alexi II places himself on the level of this world. This
                      is hardly surprising.

                      When Met. Philaret however says, not that the youth is the future of
                      society or of the Church, but that the Church is the future of the
                      youth, he is even more right, because he places himself on the level
                      of the spirit. Met Philaret challenges us to elevate our souls, and
                      you do not seem to respond.

                      Indeed, we, Christians, know that man is not at home in this world,
                      and that this world is always "malo" (too little) for him. His real
                      home is the kingdom of God, for which he has been created.

                      I am surprised that, when put before this alternative, understanding
                      that Met Philaret is right because he speaks of the spiritual world,
                      or approving Alexi II who stays in this world, you choose the second.

                      Not only do you choose the second, but, as they say in French, "Vous
                      en remettez une couche" (you put one more layer of it), and you say
                      that Islam is going to be the future of European youth.

                      Do you not believe as we do, dear Father John, that there is no
                      future for any one, young or old, outside Christ, i.e. outside His
                      Church?

                      Regarding the recommendation to "Wake up, please and look around;
                      before both the Church and youth are long gone", is it not surprising
                      that some members of this List (who apparently support the union with
                      the MP) still believe that the gates of hell may prevail against the
                      Church? We have been reminded so many times about thus on this
                      Forum?

                      "S nami Bog
                      S nami Bog,
                      razumeyte yazytsy, i pokaryaytesa:
                      yako s nami Bog."

                      In God,

                      Vladimir Kozyreff


                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
                      <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                      > Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:
                      >
                      > > Do we understand that the ROCOR is soon to be politely associated
                      > > with this all?
                      >
                      > JRS: Not with Taize.
                      >
                      > But we are not automatically associated with everyone the Patriarch
                      > writes a letter to!
                      >
                      > > Alexi II says that the youth is Europe's future. Our Met.
                      Philaret
                      > > used to say that the (true) Church is the future of the youth.
                      >
                      > JRS: I am afraid that, if things continue as they are now going,
                      > Europe's future is more likely to become Islam, than either of the
                      > above.
                      >
                      > In Christ
                      > Fr. John R. Shaw
                    • antiquariu@aol.com
                      In a message dated 12/30/2004 10:11:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, stavro369@yahoo.com writes: Dear father Shaw: Your statement above is the most perfect
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 30, 2004
                        In a message dated 12/30/2004 10:11:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                        stavro369@... writes:

                        Dear father Shaw:

                        Your statement above is the most perfect conclusion to
                        the political-religious feud baptized by republicans
                        in the USA. Alas, many Orthodox are Don-Quixote-ly
                        running around waving the flag of anathema, heresy,
                        etc., i.e., distracted counting there cents forgetting
                        the diamonds. Mecca’s syndrome, eh?

                        Please pray for me, best wishes, happy new year and
                        merry X-mass,


                        Stavro.





                        Huh?

                        If you didn't have such a Greek-sounding name, I'd swear you were an
                        unreconstructed Soviet ideologue. Tell me, Stavro, what are you trying to say?

                        And I believe the proper form of address for the good priest is Father
                        John...

                        S nastupayushchim prazdnikom

                        Vova Hindrichs
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Fr. John R. Shaw
                        ... JRS: Unfortunately, ecuemnism has been, not only at the very doors of our church , but a dweller within, for generations. Russians and other Orthodox have
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 31, 2004
                          Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:

                          > Below is what I would consider the best reaction towards rising
                          > ecumenism. I do not know whether it is polite or not.
                          >
                          > "For this indifference we alone shall be to blame".

                          JRS: Unfortunately, ecuemnism has been, not only "at the very doors of
                          our church", but a dweller within, for generations.

                          Russians and other Orthodox have been emigrating to the West for more
                          than a century. The Rue Daru cathedral in Paris dates from the mid-19th
                          century; St. Nicholas in New York was built 40 years after that. There
                          are magnificent Russian churches in Florence, Vienna, Geneva.

                          But where are those descended from the first parishioners in these
                          places?

                          If you visit Potsdam, the surname "Feodorow" is quite common, though
                          most of those who bear it do not even remember that they are of Russian
                          ancestry, and that their forebears attended the beautiful Russian
                          church there.

                          When people believe that "God is the same for everybody", and interpret
                          that as a blessing to apostasize, or to approve smilingly as their
                          grandchildren are raised outside the Church -- this is the essence of
                          ecumenism.

                          And the danger posed by the ecumenical movement (especially in the days
                          when it was really "breaking new ground" in the late 1960's and early
                          1970's) lay in its encouragement of that error.

                          In Christ
                          Fr. John R. Shaw
                        • nikifor_nikiforov
                          It is really dangerous when our own clergy embrace ecumenists and their movement. Makes quite convenient support for the all too familiar phrase, We all pray
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 31, 2004
                            It is really dangerous when our own clergy embrace ecumenists and
                            their movement. Makes quite convenient support for the all too
                            familiar phrase, "We all pray to the same God". If the Bishop shows no
                            responsibility for directing the diocese along the true path, the
                            Priest is obligated by Canon Law to direct his parishoners correctly.
                            If the Priest fails it is up to the parishoner to show the true path
                            to his family. When all fail, it becomes increasingly difficult for
                            the "next generation" to find the Church. Who do the failed clergy
                            accept responsibility for? And to whom are they showing thier allegiance?

                            Nikifor Nikiforov





                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
                            <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                            > Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:
                            >
                            > > Below is what I would consider the best reaction towards rising
                            > > ecumenism. I do not know whether it is polite or not.
                            > >
                            > > "For this indifference we alone shall be to blame".
                            >
                            > JRS: Unfortunately, ecuemnism has been, not only "at the very doors of
                            > our church", but a dweller within, for generations.
                            >
                            > Russians and other Orthodox have been emigrating to the West for more
                            > than a century. The Rue Daru cathedral in Paris dates from the mid-19th
                            > century; St. Nicholas in New York was built 40 years after that. There
                            > are magnificent Russian churches in Florence, Vienna, Geneva.
                            >
                            > But where are those descended from the first parishioners in these
                            > places?
                            >
                            > If you visit Potsdam, the surname "Feodorow" is quite common, though
                            > most of those who bear it do not even remember that they are of Russian
                            > ancestry, and that their forebears attended the beautiful Russian
                            > church there.
                            >
                            > When people believe that "God is the same for everybody", and interpret
                            > that as a blessing to apostasize, or to approve smilingly as their
                            > grandchildren are raised outside the Church -- this is the essence of
                            > ecumenism.
                            >
                            > And the danger posed by the ecumenical movement (especially in the days
                            > when it was really "breaking new ground" in the late 1960's and early
                            > 1970's) lay in its encouragement of that error.
                            >
                            > In Christ
                            > Fr. John R. Shaw
                          • Fr. John R. Shaw
                            Nikifor Nikiforov wrote... JRS: Nikifor Nikiforov sounds like yet another pseudonym to me. There is no need for masked accusers . Why not come out into the
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 1, 2005
                              Nikifor Nikiforov wrote...

                              JRS: "Nikifor Nikiforov" sounds like yet another pseudonym to me.

                              There is no need for "masked accusers".

                              Why not come out into the open, where the rest of us are?

                              In Christ
                              Fr. John R. Shaw
                            • nikifor_nikiforov
                              Rev John, I did not realize I was accusing anyone of anything. I was merely elaborating on what you had written, in the spirit of healthy discussion. There is
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 1, 2005
                                Rev John,

                                I did not realize I was accusing anyone of anything. I was merely
                                elaborating on what you had written, in the spirit of healthy
                                discussion. There is no need to get defensive.

                                And BTW, my name is my name. However, I did "mask" myself in the local
                                directory as Nick and Sara.
                                Would you like to see my papers? ;~)

                                Nikifor Nikiforov


                                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
                                <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                                > Nikifor Nikiforov wrote...
                                >
                                > JRS: "Nikifor Nikiforov" sounds like yet another pseudonym to me.
                                >
                                > There is no need for "masked accusers".
                                >
                                > Why not come out into the open, where the rest of us are?
                                >
                                > In Christ
                                > Fr. John R. Shaw
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