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[rocaclergy] Re: [orthodox-synod] MP nachala sud! (MP started a new court process in Argentina)....

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  • vkozyreff
    Dear father Alexander, bless. You write: I would appreciate if Vladimir Kozyreff could provide us with the exact date (or even year) when the Moscow
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 26 6:13 AM
      Dear father Alexander, bless.

      You write: "I would appreciate if Vladimir Kozyreff could provide us
      with the exact date (or even year) when the Moscow Patriarchate
      ceased to be the Church, and his reasons for so considering.

      An answer has already bee given by another member of this list.

      Your wanted me to provide a date that you would have been able to
      challenge. By dong so, you hoped to prove that the MP never ceased
      to be the Church.

      (I am in the discussion as to whether or not the MP exclusively or
      nonexclusively the Church, to which father John Shaw wants to draw
      me).

      You said earlier in this forum that we should not dwell on a
      discussion about signs, because this was a Jewish tradition. The
      Talmud contains a discussion about when pure water is pored from a
      pure container into an impure container, whether it becomes impure
      when it leaves the pure container or when it reaches the interior of
      the impure container.

      Let me ask you this question, dear Father Alexander: when do the
      bread and wine become the flesh and blood of Christ? When does a
      soul get lost or saved? Can you give a date? If you can give a date,
      can you give an hour? If you can give an hour, can you give the
      minute, second, millisecond? When did you change your mind about
      sergianism? What date, what hour, what minute, what second?

      When shall we get a published account about the MP rescinding
      officially sergianism?

      You want me to fall into a trap that has nothing to do with the
      spiritual truth. Not being able to give the angle of the stars or
      aster above the horizon when a spiritual event occurs has nothing to
      do with the fact that a change did take place.

      We know that the MP with which ROCOR (L) is having secret talks is
      not a Church but a pseudo Church made of pseudo bishops that teach a
      pseudo orthodoxy according to which lies can save the Church, and
      that this teaching has made its way to the very heart of ROCOR.

      In God,

      Vladimir Kozyreff



      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
      <lebedeff@w...> wrote:
      > At 08:36 AM 10/20/2004, you wrote:
      > >Dear Father John,
      > >
      > >Of course, we would love the MP if it were the Church. In fact, we
      > >hate it because it is a creature of Satan meant to fight the
      Church
      > >and to replace her. It reminds of the Antichrist.
      > >
      > >In your message, you make the carefully concealed assumption that
      > >the MP is the Church.
      >
      >
      > Vladimir Kozyreff makes it clear that he believes that the MP is
      not the
      > Church.
      >
      > However, Metropolitan Sergius, without doubt, was the lawful
      Deputy Locum
      > Tenens of the Russian Church. Therefore--the acting First
      Hierarch of the
      > Church
      >
      > Therefore, for the Moscow Patriarchate not to be the Church, there
      must
      > have been a specific time when it ceased to be the Church.
      >
      > I would appreciate if Vladimir Kozyreff could provide us with the
      exact
      > date (or even year) when the Moscow Patriarchate ceased to be the
      Church,
      > and his reasons for so considering.
      >
      > Awaiting a reply,
      >
      >
      >
      > With love in Christ,
      >
      > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      ... JRS: There is no way the Moscow Patriarchate could be exclusively the Church . The Patriarchate is in communion with all the Local Orthodox Churches;
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 26 4:34 PM
        Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:

        > (I am in the discussion as to whether or not the MP exclusively or
        > nonexclusively the Church, to which father John Shaw wants to draw
        > me).

        JRS: There is no way the Moscow Patriarchate could be "exclusively the
        Church".

        The Patriarchate is in communion with all the Local Orthodox Churches;
        therefore, it recognizes them all.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      • larry most
        GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER Dear Vladimir, The MP seems to be doing a pretty good pseudo job of instilling faith in Russia. After reading
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 26 5:31 PM
          GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
          Dear Vladimir,
          The MP seems to be doing a pretty good "pseudo" job of
          instilling faith in Russia. After reading and viewing
          some of the web pages from Russia, I am very happy for
          them.
          Love in Christ,
          Sub-deacon Lawrence Most
          --- vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Dear father Alexander, bless.
          >
          > You write: "I would appreciate if Vladimir Kozyreff
          > could provide us
          > with the exact date (or even year) when the Moscow
          > Patriarchate
          > ceased to be the Church, and his reasons for so
          > considering.
          >
          > An answer has already bee given by another member of
          > this list.
          >
          > Your wanted me to provide a date that you would have
          > been able to
          > challenge. By dong so, you hoped to prove that the
          > MP never ceased
          > to be the Church.
          >
          > (I am in the discussion as to whether or not the MP
          > exclusively or
          > nonexclusively the Church, to which father John Shaw
          > wants to draw
          > me).
          >
          > You said earlier in this forum that we should not
          > dwell on a
          > discussion about signs, because this was a Jewish
          > tradition. The
          > Talmud contains a discussion about when pure water
          > is pored from a
          > pure container into an impure container, whether it
          > becomes impure
          > when it leaves the pure container or when it reaches
          > the interior of
          > the impure container.
          >
          > Let me ask you this question, dear Father Alexander:
          > when do the
          > bread and wine become the flesh and blood of Christ?
          > When does a
          > soul get lost or saved? Can you give a date? If you
          > can give a date,
          > can you give an hour? If you can give an hour, can
          > you give the
          > minute, second, millisecond? When did you change
          > your mind about
          > sergianism? What date, what hour, what minute, what
          > second?
          >
          > When shall we get a published account about the MP
          > rescinding
          > officially sergianism?
          >
          > You want me to fall into a trap that has nothing to
          > do with the
          > spiritual truth. Not being able to give the angle of
          > the stars or
          > aster above the horizon when a spiritual event
          > occurs has nothing to
          > do with the fact that a change did take place.
          >
          > We know that the MP with which ROCOR (L) is having
          > secret talks is
          > not a Church but a pseudo Church made of pseudo
          > bishops that teach a
          > pseudo orthodoxy according to which lies can save
          > the Church, and
          > that this teaching has made its way to the very
          > heart of ROCOR.
          >
          > In God,
          >
          > Vladimir Kozyreff
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr.
          > Alexander Lebedeff"
          > <lebedeff@w...> wrote:
          > > At 08:36 AM 10/20/2004, you wrote:
          > > >Dear Father John,
          > > >
          > > >Of course, we would love the MP if it were the
          > Church. In fact, we
          > > >hate it because it is a creature of Satan meant
          > to fight the
          > Church
          > > >and to replace her. It reminds of the Antichrist.
          > > >
          > > >In your message, you make the carefully concealed
          > assumption that
          > > >the MP is the Church.
          > >
          > >
          > > Vladimir Kozyreff makes it clear that he believes
          > that the MP is
          > not the
          > > Church.
          > >
          > > However, Metropolitan Sergius, without doubt, was
          > the lawful
          > Deputy Locum
          > > Tenens of the Russian Church. Therefore--the
          > acting First
          > Hierarch of the
          > > Church
          > >
          > > Therefore, for the Moscow Patriarchate not to be
          > the Church, there
          > must
          > > have been a specific time when it ceased to be the
          > Church.
          > >
          > > I would appreciate if Vladimir Kozyreff could
          > provide us with the
          > exact
          > > date (or even year) when the Moscow Patriarchate
          > ceased to be the
          > Church,
          > > and his reasons for so considering.
          > >
          > > Awaiting a reply,
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > With love in Christ,
          > >
          > > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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