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[rocaclergy] Re: [orthodox-synod] MP nachala sud! (MP started a new court...

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  • frraphver
    Dear Vladimir, Below among many other things you wrote: Reporting historical facts about Jews is not being anti-Semitic. If you think the alleged facts are
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 22, 2004
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      Dear Vladimir,
      Below among many other things you wrote: "Reporting historical facts
      about Jews is not being anti-Semitic. If you think the alleged facts
      are not true, please support your position. Do not decree that your
      opponent is "anti-Semitic". Always that reflex of giving stereotyped
      derogative names instead of discussing the point!"

      Orthodoxy & a fair presentation of history is what does not support
      anti-Semitism and any form of racism. Racism is a pernicious sin
      because it ascribes to one people the particular sins of
      individuals. Almost always it also ascribes to another people sins
      that are actually our own and tragic events that were caused by us.
      In other words it is a way of avoiding repectance & humility by
      promoting race hatred.
      Why anti-Semitism is not history or fact is because objectively it
      is extremely difficult to show the exact connection between the
      religion & culture of a person and their sin. Rarely is there any
      connection. So much the more to make generalitites about the
      apparent evil inclinations that define a whole people and then see
      them as part of some secret plot. In other words if a Jew does
      something wrong a racist says, "It's because he's a Jew" when in
      reality there is no real connection. The connection is an imagined
      one, a construct in the eye of the beholder.
      Following the logic of this if a Jew converts to Orthodoxy and then
      commits a sin it is because he is a Jew. God preserve us from
      justifying racism in any form in Christ's Holy Church. The attempt
      to justify it is most pernicious. I will not reply to any further
      posts to do with this subject. We are called to be Christians in
      this loveless age- not hiding race hatred under the Cross of Christ.
      In Christ- Fr Raphael

      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
      <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
      > Dear Father Raphael, bless.
      > Nowadays, if you say that a person does not sing right, and if the
      > person happens to be Jewish, you will be called anti Semitic. I
      > remember being called anti-Semitic a couple of years back. I asked
      > why. They replied: "Did you not call this person David
      > I asked: "Is it not his name?" "Yes", they replied, "but why did
      > call his name so loudly"?
      > You suggest that my message N° 12721 is anti-Semitic. I reject
      > grave and offensive accusation, because I try to be orthodox and I
      > perfectly know that hating a nation is not orthodox. In
      > as well as in social settings, not only am I very quick at telling
      > who is a Jew (one of the tests is their feelings about the Russian
      > monarchy) , but the Jews and I usually quickly become very
      > friendly, support and protect one another.
      > Your knowledge of the Jewish question seems very light to me,
      > especially when you imply that Jewish-ness being a religion, those
      > who do not believe in God are not Jews and, if Trotsky is a Jew,
      > than Stalin is an orthodox. Christianity is indeed defined by what
      > you believe in ("Your faith has saved you"), but there is nothing
      > like that in Jewish-ness.
      > You should know that being Jew is not particularly believing in
      > anything. Jewish-ness is a very subtle and unique concept. Please
      > see Solzhenitsyn's "Two centuries together", the chapter
      > entitled "clarification attempt".
      > Being a Jew means many things. No simple formula can summarise it.
      > Among acceptable approximate definitions are: "a Jew is a person
      > knows he is one", and "who accepts to share the responsibility of
      > the injustices that the Jews committed" (Amos Oz, O vremeni I o
      > sebe, Kontinent, 1991, pp. 29 – 360). It is the spirit and the
      > conscience that determine being part of a people-nation-ethnos.
      > Albert Einstein, Golda Meyer, Ariel Sharon, Trotsky were all Jews
      > because they knew they were, and none of them believed in God .
      > The Soviet Union is the first country that has passed extreme laws
      > against anti-Semitism, and this was not to protect the Jews that
      > believed in God.
      > Molotov said: "Anti-Semitism is a horrible thing, because
      > was established in Russia thank to the Jews".
      > A man so little suspect of anti-Semitism as VD Nabokov said with
      > some humour that the meeting of the group leaders of the pre-
      > parliament (October 1917) could without hesitation be called the
      > Sanhedrin: "the Jews were there in overwhelming majority. The only
      > Russians were Aksentiev, myself, Pechekhonov, Tchaikovsky". (Note
      > that Richard Pipes, the Polish Jewish American historian concedes
      > that Solzhenitsyn's book is not anti-Semitic, even if he does not
      > like it).
      > Trotsky said: "I have to liquidate masses of people. The fact that
      > am a Jew and they are Russians helps".
      > According to you, stating that the US never took side for the Jews
      > in their war against the orthodox monarchy is being anti-Semitic.
      > Would it be better and not anti-Semitic to say that the US did
      > side for the Russian monarchy? Would it be pro-Semitic to say that
      > Jacob Schiff did not support the Bolsheviks?
      > Is it anti-Semitic to write: "Although Jews make up no more than
      > three or four percent of Russia's population, they wield enormous
      > economic and political power in that vast and troubled
      country"? "At
      > least half of the powerful 'oligarchs' who control a significant
      > percentage of the economy are Jewish," the Los Angeles Times has
      > cautiously noted. (See also: D. Michaels, "Capitalism in the New
      > Russia," May-June 1997 Journal, pp. 21-27.)
      > Reporting historical facts about Jews is not being anti-Semitic.
      > you think the alleged facts are not true, please support your
      > position. Do not decree that your opponent is "anti-Semitic".
      > that reflex of giving stereotyped derogative names instead of
      > discussing the point!
      > We must love the Jews because they are children of God, but we
      > know that they are the fiercest enemies of Christ and of the
      > Those who converted to Christ became Christian, and ceased to
      > as part of the the Jewish nation. There descendents are among us.
      > The present Jews accuse St Paul of betraying the thee pillars of
      > Judaism: the land, the law and the race. Judaism is the enemy of
      > Christianity because the latter claims to be the new and real
      > Israel, implying that the other is not exclusive or not even the
      > true one any longer, because it has rejected Christ("New"
      > You mention the concept of "Judeo Masonic conspiration" as being
      > anti-Semitic. I did not speak about this. A conspiration however
      > a secret organisation that intends to by-pass democracy to
      > a political goal, usually to take power. Conspiring is to plan or
      > plot secretly. A plot is A secret plan to accomplish a hostile or
      > illegal purpose. Freemasonry is evidently a conspiration. The Bnai
      > Brith is a Jewish Masonic organisation, so it is a Judeo Masonic
      > conspiration. This reasoning has nothing to do with anti Semitism.
      > As they say in Russia: "One does not hide good deeds to the
      > I spite of all, who does not feel a certain weakness for Jews?
      > all, they are relatives of the Boss's.
      > In God,
      > Vladimir Kozyreff
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