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Please, no. (was re: Fr. Nikita Orloff - Now a Bishop?")

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  • matanna@aol.com
    ... Orloff is anaxios for the reasons suggested? Can you tell us what Vl Antony s family thinks about his dignity? Do you know what Vl Antony s wife thinks
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2004
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      >With regards to Father Nikita's chirotonia, [snip] Do you confirm that N.
      Orloff is anaxios for the reasons suggested?
      Can you tell us what Vl Antony's family thinks about his dignity? Do you know
      what Vl Antony's wife thinks about this?
      <

      Please, don't let's do this.

      One the one hand, if people are friends and supporters of Fr. Nikita, whom I
      do not know, why would they want to see accusations against him aired like
      this? Sure, there's room (ample space in cyber space) for refutation and
      correction if someone gets something wrong, but once the details are out there, people
      will make judgements, and why, why expose each other to this opportunity for
      sin?

      Second, such things no longer fall under the perview of this list.
      This is the "synod" list, dedicated to discussing ROCOR doings.

      If Fr. Nikita has accepted ordination outside of ROCOR, for a diocese which
      already has a ROCOR bishop, then this is sad, but it's no longer a ROCOR
      affair. That it would be a secret is also strange, as cheretonia is not a secret
      sacrament, but since it was done not under our Church Abroad, it is not something
      our bishops govern, but rather something between God and them.

      Nothing good and much that's bad can come from people airing history,
      opinion, myth, rumor, slander, inuendo, and even facts about so sad a business, with
      families divided and diocese split.

      Could we not spend the time that would have been devoted to posting praying
      for all parties concerned?

      I used to believe, REALLY believe, that airing it all out on the internet was
      a great way to resolve problems. But all that it does is to make strangers
      judge strangers, so that when we meet face to face, there is already judgement
      and even emnity. Should we not, rather, turn to God? In times of troubles,
      confusion, conflict, I find it enormously helpful to pray "If they're right,
      convince me. If I'm right, convince them," and leave the rest to God.

      Right now what's out there are broad sweeping generalized accusations. Who in
      his right mind wants to go through all the bandwidth that will ensue about
      the personal problems and private battles of others hashed and rehashed, cast
      and recast, examined, condemned, praised, elevated, straightened, distorted,
      folded, stapled, mutilated, like some sort of afternoon talk show we'd have to go
      to confession for watching?

      What Fr. Alexander asked has now been confirmed, Fr. Nikita who served ROCOR
      so long now serves elsewehere. This is cause for sorrow and we should pray.
      But let's not make it worse.

      Many of us are at the age where our children are old enough to read these
      lists. All their childhood we shelter them from controversy and scandal, never
      discussing such things in front of them, encouraging them to love, respect and
      trust all our clergy, all the adults in a parish no matter where they stand on
      the issue of the day, which tomorrow will be no more, and then then get
      internet accounts and, hoping to read something edifying, they would come across
      THIS? Christ said something about millstones.

      Please.

      In Christ,
      Matushka Ann Lardas


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Constantine (David) Wright
      ... But it was Fr. Alexander Lebedeff, a ROCOR priest, who first posted this information to this list! Surely it is for ROCOR discussion if such a prominent
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2004
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        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, matanna@a... wrote:

        > Second, such things no longer fall under the perview of this list.
        > This is the "synod" list, dedicated to discussing ROCOR doings.
        > If Fr. Nikita has accepted ordination outside of ROCOR, for a
        > diocese which already has a ROCOR bishop, then this is sad, but
        > it's no longer a ROCOR affair.

        But it was Fr. Alexander Lebedeff, a ROCOR priest, who first posted
        this information to this list! Surely it is for ROCOR discussion if
        such a prominent ROCOR priest posts it here.

        In Christ,
        Rd. Constantine

        ======================================================
        + Reader Constantine Wright
        IC|XC http://constans_wright.tripod.com
        +--+--+ Traditional Orthodox Christian
        NI|KA http://www.new-ostrog.org/paper1.html
        + Member of St. Nicholas Orthodox Church of
        the Patriarchate of Jerusalem in the Americas
        ======================================================
      • (matushka) Ann Lardas
        Dear Constantine, ... this information to this list! Surely it is for ROCOR discussion if such a prominent ROCOR priest posts it here.
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 2, 2004
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          Dear Constantine,

          >But it was Fr. Alexander Lebedeff, a ROCOR priest, who first posted
          this information to this list! Surely it is for ROCOR discussion if
          such a prominent ROCOR priest posts it here.
          <

          You and I both are on another list, upon which a godfather asked that
          his godchild's parents' divorce not become the fodder of internet
          discussion. I agreed with him in that case and I think it applies to
          this one, besides. There are things that edify (which as a classicist
          you know means literally to "build up") and there are things that
          tear down. I don't want to see anyone torn down, not even so his
          supporters can hoist him back up again. It's just plain unseemly.

          Besides, what Fr. Alexander did was ask a question. He didn't furnish
          information, beyond that Fr. Nikita had been married, he rather
          requested information. Now, we have an answer -- Fr. Nikita chose to
          be ordained in another jurisdiction. Alas. But we don't need to go on
          more, having answered the question at hand. On another list, to be
          sure, a high ranking clergy member of another jurisdiction told us a
          whole lot of other people's business, after which each person posted
          his own spin upon what he had been told by other clergypeople. So let
          me ask you -- were you edified? Did you go to bed glorifying God
          because you'd read it? Did it increase your faith, deepen your love,
          inspire you to augment your spiritual struggles?

          To the best of my knowledge, Fr. Nikita is not a member of this list.
          And, why would he be? It's for ROCOR members and friends of ROCOR.
          But why should we be discussing someone's personal business when he
          isn't even on the list?

          We struggle to be Orthodox. We should strive, also, to be Christian.
          It's hard. We start with baby steps. But for the love of God, let us
          start.

          With love in Christ,
          matushka Ann
        • frgregory@kronstadt.org
          ... How right you are, Matushka... but PLEASE -- clergypeople ?!!! Having been to a couple of meetings presided over by a chair (not a person), and to more
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 2, 2004
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            Quoting "(matushka) Ann Lardas" <matanna@...>:

            > Dear Constantine,
            >
            > You and I both are on another list, upon which a godfather asked that
            > his godchild's parents' divorce not become the fodder of internet
            > discussion. ... after which each person posted
            > his own spin upon what he had been told by other clergypeople.

            How right you are, Matushka... but PLEASE -- "clergypeople"?!!! Having been to
            a couple of meetings presided over by a "chair" (not a person), and to more
            than a few restaurants where I was taken care of by a "wait", please spare me a
            "clergypeople", much less "a clergy". Bastardization of language does not
            promote "equality of the sexes" or of anything else. You, of all people,
            should know!
          • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            There are only clergymen, correct!, but matushka is using that term to mean members of clergy families: fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, hence
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 2, 2004
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              There are only clergymen, correct!, but matushka is using that term to
              mean members of clergy families: fathers, mothers, sons and daughters,
              hence clergypeople. Am I not right?
              Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko


              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, frgregory@k... wrote:
              > Quoting "(matushka) Ann Lardas" <matanna@a...>:
              >
              > > Dear Constantine,
              > >
              > > You and I both are on another list, upon which a godfather asked that
              > > his godchild's parents' divorce not become the fodder of internet
              > > discussion. ... after which each person posted
              > > his own spin upon what he had been told by other clergypeople.
              >
              > How right you are, Matushka... but PLEASE -- "clergypeople"?!!!
              Having been to
              > a couple of meetings presided over by a "chair" (not a person), and
              to more
              > than a few restaurants where I was taken care of by a "wait", please
              spare me a
              > "clergypeople", much less "a clergy". Bastardization of language
              does not
              > promote "equality of the sexes" or of anything else. You, of all
              people,
              > should know!
            • (matushka) Ann Lardas
              ... to mean members of clergy families: fathers, mothers, sons and daughters,hence clergypeople. Am I not right?
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 3, 2004
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                >There are only clergymen, correct!, but matushka is using that term
                to mean members of clergy families: fathers, mothers, sons and
                daughters,hence clergypeople. Am I not right?
                <

                I apologize. While Fr. Stephan is correct that all those where
                invoked, I meant a wide range of clergy, readers to bishops, but I
                should have left off the "people" part. I recently visited one of my
                favorite Orthodox toddlers, who referred to her mother joyously
                as "my Mommy person!" and started adding the word on in jest to other
                nouns -- here comes the mailman person, dont' get sent to the
                principal person, etc. If nothing else, it points out the danger of
                habit!

                Thank you for pointing this out.

                In Christ,
                Matushka Ann
              • Paul O. BARTLETT
                ... I thought that in the understanding of traditional Orthodox Christians, being Orthodox and being Christian are two different ways of saying the same
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 3, 2004
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                  On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, (matushka) Ann Lardas wrote (small excerpt):

                  > We struggle to be Orthodox. We should strive, also, to be Christian.

                  I thought that in the understanding of traditional Orthodox
                  Christians, "being Orthodox" and "being Christian" are two different
                  ways of saying the same thing, i.e., that no non-Orthodox are truly
                  Christian. At least, such was the understanding I acquired lo these
                  many years ago.

                  --
                  Paul Bartlett
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