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RE: [orthodox-synod] Re: "Fr. Nikita Orloff - Now a Bishop?"

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  • Philippe Crévieaux
    Dear Father Alexander, Do you confirm the brother and the sisters of Fr Nikita Orloff are members of your parish? In Christ, Philippe Crévieaux
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
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      Dear Father Alexander,

      Do you confirm the brother and the sisters of Fr Nikita Orloff are members
      of your parish?

      In Christ,

      Philippe Crévieaux



      >From: "goossir" <irene.goossens@...>
      >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: "Fr. Nikita Orloff - Now a Bishop?"
      >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:07:42 -0000
      >
      >Dear Father Alexander,
      >
      >If you have the sisters and the brother of Fr Nikita Orloff (now
      >Vladika Anthony) as active members of your parish, why don't you ask
      >them directly, and tell us what was their reply? Their answer will
      >certainly be the most accurate than any given on this list by
      >outsiders.
      >
      >In Christ
      >
      >Irina Pahlen
      >
      >
      >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
      ><lebedeff@w...> wrote:
      > > OK.
      > >
      > > Heard a rumor today. . .
      > >
      > > Fr. Nikita Orloff was made a Bishop in the ROCiE, or ROCOR(V) or
      >whatever.
      > >
      > > Secretly.
      > >
      > > For South America.
      > >
      > >
      > > Anyone out there who can authoritatively confirm or deny?
      > >
      > > John Chaplain?
      > >
      > > Deacon Kirill?
      > >
      > > This is not just idle curiosity.
      > >
      > > I've known the whole Orloff family in Southern California literally
      >all my
      > > life, and three sisters and a brother of the man in question are
      >active
      > > members of my parish. Actually, I was quite close to Nikita while I
      >was in
      > > my teenage years, back in the 60's.
      > >
      > > If the rumor is true, I wonder what his wife (of some forty years),
      >Pavla,
      > > thinks about this. . .
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > With love in Christ,
      > > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
      >
      >
    • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
      I know the Orloff family well enough to witness that there are members of that family who regularly, faithfully and supportively attend Father Alexander s
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
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        I know the Orloff family well enough to witness that there are members
        of that family who regularly, faithfully and supportively attend
        Father Alexander's Cathedral Church.
        Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko



        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Philippe Crévieaux
        <crevieauxp@h...> wrote:
        > Dear Father Alexander,
        >
        > Do you confirm the brother and the sisters of Fr Nikita Orloff are
        members
        > of your parish?
        >
        > In Christ,
        >
        > Philippe Crévieaux
        >
        >
        >
        > >From: "goossir" <irene.goossens@c...>
        > >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: "Fr. Nikita Orloff - Now a Bishop?"
        > >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:07:42 -0000
        > >
        > >Dear Father Alexander,
        > >
        > >If you have the sisters and the brother of Fr Nikita Orloff (now
        > >Vladika Anthony) as active members of your parish, why don't you ask
        > >them directly, and tell us what was their reply? Their answer will
        > >certainly be the most accurate than any given on this list by
        > >outsiders.
        > >
        > >In Christ
        > >
        > >Irina Pahlen
        > >
        > >
        > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
        > ><lebedeff@w...> wrote:
        > > > OK.
        > > >
        > > > Heard a rumor today. . .
        > > >
        > > > Fr. Nikita Orloff was made a Bishop in the ROCiE, or ROCOR(V) or
        > >whatever.
        > > >
        > > > Secretly.
        > > >
        > > > For South America.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Anyone out there who can authoritatively confirm or deny?
        > > >
        > > > John Chaplain?
        > > >
        > > > Deacon Kirill?
        > > >
        > > > This is not just idle curiosity.
        > > >
        > > > I've known the whole Orloff family in Southern California literally
        > >all my
        > > > life, and three sisters and a brother of the man in question are
        > >active
        > > > members of my parish. Actually, I was quite close to Nikita while I
        > >was in
        > > > my teenage years, back in the 60's.
        > > >
        > > > If the rumor is true, I wonder what his wife (of some forty years),
        > >Pavla,
        > > > thinks about this. . .
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > With love in Christ,
        > > > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
        > >
        > >
      • vkozyreff
        Dear Father Stefan, bless. With regards to Father Nikita s chirotonia, we have read Father Alexander s innuendo about N. Orloff s wife thoughts after 40 years
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
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          Dear Father Stefan, bless.

          With regards to Father Nikita's chirotonia, we have read Father
          Alexander's innuendo about N. Orloff's wife thoughts after 40 years
          of marriage, and N. Zaharov insults (quickly followed by apologies
          for publishing them, not for authoring them).

          Would you not think that it would be time to put some Christian
          order in this discussion?

          Do you confirm that N. Orloff is anaxios for the reasons suggested?
          Can you tell us what Vl Antony's family thinks about his dignity? Do
          you know what Vl Antony's wife thinks about this?

          In God,

          Vladimir Kozyreff






          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
          <StefanVPavlenko@n...> wrote:
          > I know the Orloff family well enough to witness that there are
          members
          > of that family who regularly, faithfully and supportively attend
          > Father Alexander's Cathedral Church.
          > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Philippe Crévieaux
          > <crevieauxp@h...> wrote:
          > > Dear Father Alexander,
          > >
          > > Do you confirm the brother and the sisters of Fr Nikita Orloff
          are
          > members
          > > of your parish?
          > >
          > > In Christ,
          > >
          > > Philippe Crévieaux
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > >From: "goossir" <irene.goossens@c...>
          > > >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          > > >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: "Fr. Nikita Orloff - Now a
          Bishop?"
          > > >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:07:42 -0000
          > > >
          > > >Dear Father Alexander,
          > > >
          > > >If you have the sisters and the brother of Fr Nikita Orloff (now
          > > >Vladika Anthony) as active members of your parish, why don't
          you ask
          > > >them directly, and tell us what was their reply? Their answer
          will
          > > >certainly be the most accurate than any given on this list by
          > > >outsiders.
          > > >
          > > >In Christ
          > > >
          > > >Irina Pahlen
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
          > > ><lebedeff@w...> wrote:
          > > > > OK.
          > > > >
          > > > > Heard a rumor today. . .
          > > > >
          > > > > Fr. Nikita Orloff was made a Bishop in the ROCiE, or ROCOR
          (V) or
          > > >whatever.
          > > > >
          > > > > Secretly.
          > > > >
          > > > > For South America.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Anyone out there who can authoritatively confirm or deny?
          > > > >
          > > > > John Chaplain?
          > > > >
          > > > > Deacon Kirill?
          > > > >
          > > > > This is not just idle curiosity.
          > > > >
          > > > > I've known the whole Orloff family in Southern California
          literally
          > > >all my
          > > > > life, and three sisters and a brother of the man in question
          are
          > > >active
          > > > > members of my parish. Actually, I was quite close to Nikita
          while I
          > > >was in
          > > > > my teenage years, back in the 60's.
          > > > >
          > > > > If the rumor is true, I wonder what his wife (of some forty
          years),
          > > >Pavla,
          > > > > thinks about this. . .
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > With love in Christ,
          > > > > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
          > > >
          > > >
        • Philippe Crévieaux
          Why don t you ask to them where is now the wife of Nikita Orloff? Do you know the reply? In Christ, Philippe Crévieaux
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 2, 2004
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            Why don't you ask to them where is now the wife of Nikita Orloff?
            Do you know the reply?

            In Christ,
            Philippe Crévieaux


            >From: "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko" <StefanVPavlenko@...>
            >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: "Fr. Nikita Orloff - Now a Bishop?"
            >Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 18:43:24 -0000
            >
            >I know the Orloff family well enough to witness that there are members
            >of that family who regularly, faithfully and supportively attend
            >Father Alexander's Cathedral Church.
            >Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            >
            >
            >
            >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Philippe Crévieaux
            ><crevieauxp@h...> wrote:
            > > Dear Father Alexander,
            > >
            > > Do you confirm the brother and the sisters of Fr Nikita Orloff are
            >members
            > > of your parish?
            > >
            > > In Christ,
            > >
            > > Philippe Crévieaux
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > >From: "goossir" <irene.goossens@c...>
            > > >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > > >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > > >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: "Fr. Nikita Orloff - Now a Bishop?"
            > > >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:07:42 -0000
            > > >
            > > >Dear Father Alexander,
            > > >
            > > >If you have the sisters and the brother of Fr Nikita Orloff (now
            > > >Vladika Anthony) as active members of your parish, why don't you ask
            > > >them directly, and tell us what was their reply? Their answer will
            > > >certainly be the most accurate than any given on this list by
            > > >outsiders.
            > > >
            > > >In Christ
            > > >
            > > >Irina Pahlen
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
            > > ><lebedeff@w...> wrote:
            > > > > OK.
            > > > >
            > > > > Heard a rumor today. . .
            > > > >
            > > > > Fr. Nikita Orloff was made a Bishop in the ROCiE, or ROCOR(V) or
            > > >whatever.
            > > > >
            > > > > Secretly.
            > > > >
            > > > > For South America.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Anyone out there who can authoritatively confirm or deny?
            > > > >
            > > > > John Chaplain?
            > > > >
            > > > > Deacon Kirill?
            > > > >
            > > > > This is not just idle curiosity.
            > > > >
            > > > > I've known the whole Orloff family in Southern California literally
            > > >all my
            > > > > life, and three sisters and a brother of the man in question are
            > > >active
            > > > > members of my parish. Actually, I was quite close to Nikita while I
            > > >was in
            > > > > my teenage years, back in the 60's.
            > > > >
            > > > > If the rumor is true, I wonder what his wife (of some forty years),
            > > >Pavla,
            > > > > thinks about this. . .
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > With love in Christ,
            > > > > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
            > > >
            > > >
            >
          • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
            ... I am quite amazed by this reply. When I asked the question: If the rumor is true, I wonder what his wife (of some forty years), Pavla, thinks about this.
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 4, 2004
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              At 12:13 PM 9/1/2004, you wrote:
              >Dear Father Stefan, bless.
              >
              >With regards to Father Nikita's chirotonia, we have read Father
              >Alexander's innuendo about N. Orloff's wife thoughts after 40 years
              >of marriage, and N. Zaharov insults (quickly followed by apologies
              >for publishing them, not for authoring them).
              >
              >Would you not think that it would be time to put some Christian
              >order in this discussion?
              >
              >Do you confirm that N. Orloff is anaxios for the reasons suggested?
              >Can you tell us what Vl Antony's family thinks about his dignity? Do
              >you know what Vl Antony's wife thinks about this?
              >
              >In God,
              >
              >Vladimir Kozyreff


              I am quite amazed by this reply.

              When I asked the question:

              "If the rumor is true, I wonder what his wife (of some forty years), Pavla,
              thinks about this. . ."

              then Vladimir calls it "innuendo."

              Yet he concludes his own post with virtually the same question:

              "Do you know what Vl Antony's wife thinks about this?"

              If the first is innuendo, why isn't the second?

              Vladimir Kozyreff should know that it is a absolute fact that Fr. Nikita
              Orloff, after the repose of Archbishop Antony, having received permission
              to remove Archbishop Antony's personal belongings from his apartments under
              the church, drove up with a **tractor trailer**, parked it on the church
              property, and proceeded to remove not only Archbishop Antony's personal
              effects, but **all** of the contents of the parish and diocesan office,
              including all the parish and diocesan archives, the metrical books, the
              Deeds to the property, the original Certificate of Incorporation, all the
              parish Metrical Records, all financial statements, the Building plans for
              the church, the soils reports, the building and zoning permits, all
              historical documents and photographs, all minutes of parish meetings, --
              basically all the documents, including official corporate documents of the
              parish.

              He also took icons from the Church, Church books and liturgical items,
              vestments (which were bought and paid for by the parish and its
              Sisterhood--not by Archbishop Antony personally, and so belong to the
              parish), and even the rug runners out of the church (he later returned these).

              He also took several irreplaceable pre-revolutionary books that belonged to
              me personally, which I had loaned to Archbishop Antony, and refused to
              return them to me when asked.

              All this was seen by the parishioners of our church, so there is no doubt
              about the truth of the matter.

              So there is no doubt that he stole all of this from our church, so the
              accusations about theft are completely true.

              Vladimir also asks:

              "Can you tell us what Vl Antony's family thinks about his dignity?"

              The answer is yes.

              When the question arose of Metropolitan Vitaly wishing to ordain Deacon
              Nikita Orloff to the priesthood, all of his brothers and sisters wrote a
              Petition to Metropolitan Vitaly informing him that they were all aware of
              serious canonical impediments to this ordination and begging the
              Metropolitan not to do this.

              The brother, Eugene Orloff, is Secretary of the Parish Council and a Senior
              Engineer at Boeing, where he has worked for over 40 years. His wife,
              Natalie, is the Head of our Sisterhood.

              The eldest sister is Nun Euphemia, who prior to her tonsure was a Professor
              of Foreign Languages for many years.

              The next sister is Dr. Natalie Saltykoff, the Head of Pathology at St.
              John's Hospital, and also a member of our Parish Council and Admimistrator
              of our Parish's Fund for the Needy.

              The next sister is Olga Orloff, who has two Master's Degrees in Nursing and
              Hospital Administration, and works as a hospital administrator.

              The last sister is Matushka Helen Skvor, wife of Protodeacon George Skvor,
              who has been a teacher for over thirty years.

              All of them are professional people, well respected, and (apart from Sister
              Euphemia) are active members of our parish.

              They, of course, know their brother from infancy.

              When all five brothers and sisters write an Appeal asking that their
              brother not be ordained for signbificant canonical reasons--this must taken
              very seriously.

              More serious, even, is the fact that the long time Father Confessor of
              Nikita Orloff, Protopriest Theodore Martynenko, who had served at the Los
              Angeles Cathedral from 1965 to 1982, also wrote a formal letter to
              Metropolitan Vitaly, informing him that significant canonical impediments
              existed to the ordination of Nikita Orloff.

              Even further, the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside
              of Russia, after having viewed a videotape of Nikita Orloff screaming and
              yelling and slandering the senior bishops of the Synod using the worst
              words, called Deacon Nikita Orloff to present himself before the Synod, and
              after examining him in person and receiving an apology, passed a Resolution
              declaring that in no way could Deacon Nikita Orloff ever be ordained to the
              priesthood.

              His ordination to the priesthood, therefore, took place in violation of a
              Synodal Resolution, a Petition against such ordination by his Spiritual
              Father, and a Petition against such an ordination signed by all five of his
              brothers and sisters.

              Such a situation is unheard of in the Church.



              With love in Christ,

              Prot. Alexander Lebedeff


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • vkozyreff
              Dear Father Alexander, bless. You say that I am inconsistent because I say that you made an innuendo, but asked the same question as you did. I did not make
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 8, 2004
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                Dear Father Alexander, bless.

                You say that I am inconsistent because I say that you made an
                innuendo, but asked the same question as you did.

                I did not make understand myself properly. In fact, I just repeated
                your question, as an invitation for you to give an answer, because I
                think you know it.

                The innuendo is when the accuser asks the question without answering
                it and suggests that Vl Antony was made bishop in spite of being
                married. It is not an innuendo when I insist on getting an answer,
                which I think, is honourable. I understand Vl Antony's and his
                matushka have both mutually agreed to pronounce monastic vows, so
                there is no canonical obstacle, contrarily to the case of MP's Alexii
                II, for instance.

                Regarding the disappearance of Archbishop Antony's personal
                belongings, I read another description of the facts, which was
                submitted to this forum, and which appeared for a short time but was
                then quickly taken back for being a "proxy". It also speaks about
                Father Nikita Orloff being summoned to present himself before the
                Synod and apologising for slandering clergy.

                I am told that Father Nikita Orloff did apologise, did confess and
                was pardoned. Is this not true?

                Do we Christians not consider that a sin must be punished only once,
                and that confessed sins can be pardoned, that is to say erased? Do we
                not believe that

                Luke 15:7
                there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents
                than over ninetynine righteous persons who do not need to repent?

                I remember having a discussion with Father Stefan Pavlenko who
                reported being abused by one of Vl Ambrose's opponents in Brussels.
                We agreed with Father Stefan that this incident should not be
                mentioned any longer, because that man prostrated himself before
                Father Stefan and asked forgiveness, which Father Stefan granted.
                They then embraced one another.

                Maybe some of those that we call sinners will receive us in heaven if
                we get there. You rightly insisted, about the MP, that we should not
                be too heavy about clergy's personal sins. Do I understand you
                correctly?

                In God,

                Vladimir Kozyreff


                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
                <lebedeff@w...> wrote:
                > At 12:13 PM 9/1/2004, you wrote:
                > >Dear Father Stefan, bless.
                > >
                > >With regards to Father Nikita's chirotonia, we have read Father
                > >Alexander's innuendo about N. Orloff's wife thoughts after 40 years
                > >of marriage, and N. Zaharov insults (quickly followed by apologies
                > >for publishing them, not for authoring them).
                > >
                > >Would you not think that it would be time to put some Christian
                > >order in this discussion?
                > >
                > >Do you confirm that N. Orloff is anaxios for the reasons suggested?
                > >Can you tell us what Vl Antony's family thinks about his dignity?
                Do
                > >you know what Vl Antony's wife thinks about this?
                > >
                > >In God,
                > >
                > >Vladimir Kozyreff
                >
                >
                > I am quite amazed by this reply.
                >
                > When I asked the question:
                >
                > "If the rumor is true, I wonder what his wife (of some forty
                years), Pavla,
                > thinks about this. . ."
                >
                > then Vladimir calls it "innuendo."
                >
                > Yet he concludes his own post with virtually the same question:
                >
                > "Do you know what Vl Antony's wife thinks about this?"
                >
                > If the first is innuendo, why isn't the second?
                >
                > Vladimir Kozyreff should know that it is a absolute fact that Fr.
                Nikita
                > Orloff, after the repose of Archbishop Antony, having received
                permission
                > to remove Archbishop Antony's personal belongings from his
                apartments under
                > the church, drove up with a **tractor trailer**, parked it on the
                church
                > property, and proceeded to remove not only Archbishop Antony's
                personal
                > effects, but **all** of the contents of the parish and diocesan
                office,
                > including all the parish and diocesan archives, the metrical books,
                the
                > Deeds to the property, the original Certificate of Incorporation,
                all the
                > parish Metrical Records, all financial statements, the Building
                plans for
                > the church, the soils reports, the building and zoning permits, all
                > historical documents and photographs, all minutes of parish
                meetings, --
                > basically all the documents, including official corporate documents
                of the
                > parish.
                >
                > He also took icons from the Church, Church books and liturgical
                items,
                > vestments (which were bought and paid for by the parish and its
                > Sisterhood--not by Archbishop Antony personally, and so belong to
                the
                > parish), and even the rug runners out of the church (he later
                returned these).
                >
                > He also took several irreplaceable pre-revolutionary books that
                belonged to
                > me personally, which I had loaned to Archbishop Antony, and refused
                to
                > return them to me when asked.
                >
                > All this was seen by the parishioners of our church, so there is no
                doubt
                > about the truth of the matter.
                >
                > So there is no doubt that he stole all of this from our church, so
                the
                > accusations about theft are completely true.
                >
                > Vladimir also asks:
                >
                > "Can you tell us what Vl Antony's family thinks about his dignity?"
                >
                > The answer is yes.
                >
                > When the question arose of Metropolitan Vitaly wishing to ordain
                Deacon
                > Nikita Orloff to the priesthood, all of his brothers and sisters
                wrote a
                > Petition to Metropolitan Vitaly informing him that they were all
                aware of
                > serious canonical impediments to this ordination and begging the
                > Metropolitan not to do this.
                >
                > The brother, Eugene Orloff, is Secretary of the Parish Council and
                a Senior
                > Engineer at Boeing, where he has worked for over 40 years. His
                wife,
                > Natalie, is the Head of our Sisterhood.
                >
                > The eldest sister is Nun Euphemia, who prior to her tonsure was a
                Professor
                > of Foreign Languages for many years.
                >
                > The next sister is Dr. Natalie Saltykoff, the Head of Pathology at
                St.
                > John's Hospital, and also a member of our Parish Council and
                Admimistrator
                > of our Parish's Fund for the Needy.
                >
                > The next sister is Olga Orloff, who has two Master's Degrees in
                Nursing and
                > Hospital Administration, and works as a hospital administrator.
                >
                > The last sister is Matushka Helen Skvor, wife of Protodeacon George
                Skvor,
                > who has been a teacher for over thirty years.
                >
                > All of them are professional people, well respected, and (apart
                from Sister
                > Euphemia) are active members of our parish.
                >
                > They, of course, know their brother from infancy.
                >
                > When all five brothers and sisters write an Appeal asking that
                their
                > brother not be ordained for signbificant canonical reasons--this
                must taken
                > very seriously.
                >
                > More serious, even, is the fact that the long time Father Confessor
                of
                > Nikita Orloff, Protopriest Theodore Martynenko, who had served at
                the Los
                > Angeles Cathedral from 1965 to 1982, also wrote a formal letter to
                > Metropolitan Vitaly, informing him that significant canonical
                impediments
                > existed to the ordination of Nikita Orloff.
                >
                > Even further, the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church
                Outside
                > of Russia, after having viewed a videotape of Nikita Orloff
                screaming and
                > yelling and slandering the senior bishops of the Synod using the
                worst
                > words, called Deacon Nikita Orloff to present himself before the
                Synod, and
                > after examining him in person and receiving an apology, passed a
                Resolution
                > declaring that in no way could Deacon Nikita Orloff ever be
                ordained to the
                > priesthood.
                >
                > His ordination to the priesthood, therefore, took place in
                violation of a
                > Synodal Resolution, a Petition against such ordination by his
                Spiritual
                > Father, and a Petition against such an ordination signed by all
                five of his
                > brothers and sisters.
                >
                > Such a situation is unheard of in the Church.
                >
                >
                >
                > With love in Christ,
                >
                > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • for4z@aol.com
                In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:07:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, irene.goossens@cec.eu.int writes: Why doesn t the ROCOR (L) leave The ROCE alone and clean up
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 8, 2004
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                  In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:07:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                  irene.goossens@... writes:
                  Why doesn't the ROCOR (L) leave The ROCE alone and
                  clean up their own mess instead of justifying it, while allow our
                  Saviour to be the Judge of this awful division?



                  There are members of our Russian Church Outside Russia, who are considering
                  leaving our Church and joining the group formed around Metropolitan Vitaly. If
                  I know of spiritually dangerous people, I feel it my Christian duty to make
                  this information known.

                  Earlier, somebody showed concern for "our children" reading certain postings
                  on this list. I was a teenager when I was forced to witness Nikita Orloff
                  screaming and choking his brother at our parish meeting (immediately following
                  Liturgy and Holy Communion), and one of Nikita's sympathizer's attempt to punch
                  my frail 85 year old grandfather, (Bishop Kyrill stepped in and took the punch
                  instead). These events left a very deep impression on me as a youth. I
                  don't remember John Chaplain being in our parish at that time. If he were, he
                  would not be defending the undefensible.

                  In my opinion, business of a new Bishop of Gadarene has nothing to do with
                  Christianity.

                  -Nick Zaharov


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
                  ... (John Chaplain s post entitled Newly Consecrated Bishop Antony Slandered by Protopriest follows. Irina Pahlen s post is an excellent example of how some
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 13, 2004
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                    Irina Pahlen wrote:

                    >Dear List,
                    >
                    >I think that in due honesty, the following mail below should be
                    >published on this list. It is an answer to Father Alexander's and
                    >Nicholas Zakharov accusations. This will allow to have a more
                    >objective and clear view of the matter.
                    >
                    >In Christ
                    >
                    >Irina pahlen

                    (John Chaplain's post entitled "Newly Consecrated Bishop Antony Slandered
                    by Protopriest" follows.

                    Irina Pahlen's post is an excellent example of how some place trust in
                    people who have no real knowledge of the actual circumstances.

                    Irina should be made aware of the fact that John Chaplain is not a member
                    of Holy Transfiguration Cathedral and does not live in Los Angeles. He
                    lives in Fresno, California, which is some 300 kilometers away. For his
                    ability to speak accurately about things that occurred at the LA Cathedral,
                    he might as well be in Belgium.

                    On the other hand, I am the Rector of Holy Transfiguration Cathedral, and
                    have served there as a priest for the past 22 years. This is also my home
                    parish, where I grew up, where I served in the altar, where I attended the
                    Russian Parochial School, where I was tonsured Reader, where I was married,
                    where my son was baptized.

                    Nicholas Zaharov has been at Holy Transfiguration Cathedral all his life,
                    as has his father, who was in Russian School together with me.

                    So--who is more qualified to speak authoritatively about events at Holy
                    Transfiguration Cathedral?

                    John Chaplain, who was never anywhere near when the events described took
                    place?

                    Or those who were here.

                    A couple of points in rebuttal to John Chaplain's response:

                    1. Fr. Alexander Lebedeff wrote in part, that Fr. Nikita, after the
                    repose of A/B Antony+ of Los Angeles, had received permission to
                    remove Vladyka's personal belongings from his apartment under the
                    cathedral. He said Fr. Nikita parked a tractor trailer on church
                    property and also removed all of the contents of the parish and
                    diocesan office.

                    MY (John Chaplain's) response: Fr. Nikita, had a freight container placed
                    on the
                    parking lot of the cathedral and on several occasions, sorted and
                    loaded the contents of Vladyka A/B Antony"s apartment into the
                    container. There were many water damaged items that were discarded.
                    This was the result of a water pipe that had broken and caused
                    flooding, during an earthquake as I understand it.

                    Fr. Alexander now responds: 1. It was not a container--it was Nikita
                    Orloff's tractor trailer--the same one he used for transporting goods for
                    Russia.

                    2. The parish and diocesan offices were **in** the apartment used by
                    Archbishop Antony. So all of the parish documents and records **were**
                    taken by Nikita Orloff. The idea that they were all water damaged is
                    ludicrous. The apartment and offices are on the same level as our parish
                    hall under the church, where we have a fellowship luncheon every Sunday
                    after Liturgy. Never has there been a pipe burst flood of that level. Now,
                    there have been minor floods, such as when the dishwasher hose blew, but
                    none of this was serious and was easily mopped up.

                    But more importantly, the apartments and offices of Archbishop Antony had
                    many bookcases, desks, standing cabinets with shelves, and four-drawer
                    filing cabinets, where parish documents were kept. I would like to have
                    John Chaplain explain how documents in desks and filing cabinets would have
                    been destroyed or damaged, unless the whole place was under water, which,
                    having been there on almost a daily basis for the past twenty-two years I
                    can categorically state did not happen.

                    I have a videotape of the offices and the apartment of Archbishop Antony,
                    which was taken under my supervision soon after his repose, that shows the
                    desks and filing cabinets--with no water damage.

                    3. During the last two or three years of his life, before he became too ill
                    and was taken to live with Dr. Kurtzner (when he was not in the hospital),
                    Archbishop Antony did **not** live under the Church in his apartments
                    there. After two years of living like a homeless person in his van behind
                    the Church, Archbishop Antony moved into the vacant front house of the then
                    Church Warden, Ivan Sorokin on Robinson Street, several miles form the
                    Church. He had three rooms there and a kitchen.

                    After Archbishop Antony's repose, Bishop Kyrill, then temporary
                    administrator of the Diocese, and I went to the house on Robinson and
                    inspected the contents of Archbishop Antony's apartments there. All three
                    rooms were full of papers and documents, including many files, most of
                    which concerned parish matters. We found one of the older Metrical Books
                    (up to 1951), which we took. None of the other papers were ever returned to
                    the parish. And--there is no excuse of a flood there at all.

                    John Chaplain wrote:

                    On one occasion while working at Vladyka Antony's + apartment, Fr.
                    Nikita was physically punched several times while getting beat up in
                    the church hall and was literally airborne, when thrown out by two
                    soviet thugs and there mother thug. The worst part of this was that
                    Fr. Nikita was wearing his riassa and pectoral cross. The two Soviet
                    men, after being interrogated by the police (Fr. Nikita did not file
                    charges) proceeded to go into the altar to serve vigil with Fr.
                    Alexander.


                    Fr. Alexander's new comments.

                    Here again one needs to look at the facts based on evidence (not just the
                    word of Fr. Nikita or his son or daughter.

                    The facts are that Fr. Nikita staged a confrontation in the Church Hall,
                    when he found out that at the direction of Bishop Kyrill, the locks to
                    Archbishop Antony's apartment were being changed.

                    This happened to be on December 7, 1996, a Saturday when we had a "general
                    cleaning" of the Church and the altar--which we do a couple of times a
                    year, inviting all of the parishioners to come with their brooms, mops, and
                    cleaning utensils to do a thorough cleaning of the Church.

                    There were some 20-30 people there in all, so there were plenty of unbiased
                    witnesses to what occurred, including almost all of our Parish Council and
                    many from the Parish Sisterhood. A young man in his twenties, named Misha,
                    who had been serving in the altar for several years, was helping to clean
                    in the altar.

                    An confrontation ensued between Fr. Nikita's son, Sergei, and Misha's
                    mother, who was already a grandmother. Sergei began beating the woman over
                    the head with a video camera, swinging it by its straps. Fr. Nikita, in
                    robe and cross, joined in, threw the elderly woman to the ground, and began
                    to pummel her. This was all in front of some ten witnesses, who came out of
                    the church when they heard the sounds of the altercation. One of the
                    parishioners ran toward the altar and told Misha that his mother was being
                    beaten up. Misha ran out of the Church, knocked Fr. Nikita off his mother,
                    and, yes, roughed him up--although, I don't know what others would do if
                    they saw their elderly mother being beaten up.

                    I had been at the Church earlier, but was not present myself during the
                    altercation, which took place in front of our church in the parking lot. I
                    was paged on my beeper, and rushed back to the Church, arriving some
                    fifteen minutes afterwards.

                    A police car was in the parking lot and two policemen were interrogating
                    the participants and the witnesses.

                    The police wanted to take Fr. Nikita and Sergei into custody for beating
                    the woman, although they were tryng to say that the woman had been beating
                    them, which the police weren't buying at all, since they could see a pretty
                    severly beaten elderly woman, who must be all of 4 feet 10, while Nikita
                    and Sergei looked to be in pretty good physical shape.

                    Finally, I was able to persuade the police not to arrest anyone so as not
                    to cause a scandal for the Church, and they left.

                    The woman was taken to the hospital, and found to have multiple contusions
                    on her face and upper arms, consistent with being "defensive" wounds, when
                    a person is trying to fend off an attack by protecting her head with her arms.

                    Now--as to the veracity and credibility of the two stories.

                    John Chaplain's has his information from Nikita Orloff.

                    On the other side is a police report, a hospital report, polaroid pictures
                    of the severely bruised woman taken the day of the attack, and five sworn
                    written affidavits by witnesses, who state that they saw Nikita Orloff
                    throw the elderly woman to the ground and pummel her.

                    In fact, I have witness statements from **nine** witnesses.

                    So, whom are you to believe?

                    In fact, I will even make a challenge to John Chaplain.

                    I challenge him to come to Los Angeles and speak with the witnesses himself.

                    He is free to talk to the woman who was beaten, the woman's husband, the
                    woman's son, as well.

                    I'd love to see you, John, accuse me again of "slander" in the face of at
                    least nine corroborating witnesses, the police and hospital reports,
                    photographs of the injuries, and the victim herself.

                    Sorry, John, in the United States, it's not slander if it's true.

                    For some reason, in all of your attempts to explain the situation
                    attempting to show that Fr. Nikita was the victim of a vicious attack by a
                    Soviet "thug" (now you've changed the story to "thugs"), you are still
                    incapable of explaining how the woman ended up seriously beaten.

                    There were only four participants in the altercation: Fr. Nikita and his
                    son, Sergei, on one side--and the elderly woman and her son, Misha, who
                    came to her defense, on the other.

                    So--John, who beat up the woman?

                    I'll give you a hint: it wasn't her son. . .

                    So--a final caution to listmembers: be careful in assessing statements or
                    versions of events that are produced by someone who was not there, when
                    there are plenty of people who **were** there and saw what took place.

                    And they sae, no question about it, Fr. Nikita, throwing an elderly woman
                    to the ground and pummeling her.















                    With love in Christ,

                    Prot. Alexander Lebedeff


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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