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letters to the Synod of Bishops

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  • George Schidlovsky, Sr
    To all ROCOR parishioners: The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the clergy letter) and is attached here to testify current events in the
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 28, 2004
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      To all ROCOR parishioners:

      The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the clergy letter) and
      is attached here to testify current events in the ROCOR.

      The laity letter originates from Koltypin,PN, Magerovsky,EG, Bagration,IS,
      and Schidlovsky G..

      Both letters will be delivered to the Synod of Bishops in San Francisco on 5
      July when the forthcoming meeting of the Synod is scheduled with as many
      signatures as will be received by then.

      ��������� ����� � ������������� ������ ����



      27-�� ���� 2004 �.



      ��, �����������������, ���������� � ��� � ������������� �������� ��
      ��������� ������� �� ���� � ��������� � ���������� ���������� ����������� ��
      ������ �������������� ������ ����������� � �����, �.�. ���� ������������
      ������ �������� ����� ������ �� ������� 1917 �. � ������ ���� ��������
      ��������������� ���� ������ ����� ������ �������, � ����� ����������
      ��������� ��������. ��� �������� ��� ��� � ������� ������ �������� ���, �
      ������ �������, ���� � ���������� ���� ������� ������ ���� ������ ���������
      � ��������� ��-������������� � ��- ������������� ���������.



      �������� ���� ������������� � ������� 87 ���, �������
      ������������ ������� ����������, � ����� �������, �� ������ ����������,
      ������������ � ��������, ��������� ������� �����������-�������������
      �������������, �������, � ��������� ���������, ������� �������� ���� �������
      ��� ���������.



      ���� ���������, ����������� ���� ����������� ���� ������ ������ ����
      �������� � ������� �� ���� ������ �������� �� ����� ��������, ���������
      ��������� �����������������, ������������ � �������������� ����������
      ������� ���� ������ ������������ ������� �� ����� ������� ������������
      ������. ���������� �����-���� �� ��� ��������� �� ������������� �������
      ������� ��� ���������� ������� ������������ ������ �, ��������, �������� �
      ������� ��� ������������ � ���� ��������� ����������� ��� �������.



      *****

      An Appeal by the Laity to the Synod of Bishops of the ROCOR

      27 July 2004



      We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of Bishops with the
      insistent request to refrain from adopting any resolutions on the subject of
      unification in any form of our Church with the existing Moscow Patriarchate
      before the convocation of a ROCOR Sobor that would include the participation
      of bishops, priests and laity.



      This issue is overwhelmingly the most important issue our Church has had to
      face since 1917 and it must be examined "soborno" by representatives of all
      component parts of our Church, with the aim of reaching spiritual unity.
      With God's help, such unity has guided our Church during the course of many
      decades throughout many non-Christian and non-Orthodox ordeals and
      temptations.

      Having maintained its independence over 87 years, the Russian Orthodox
      Church outside Russia in its entirety, with its bishops, priests and laity
      has always sought to preserve the purity of Christian Orthodox beliefs and
      practices which most regrettably have too often been lost or reduced by many
      Churches.

      This profoundly important issue which closely affects our religious life
      must be freely and thoroughly discussed at a forthcoming All-ROCOR Local
      Council (Sobor) by bishops, priests and laity: the three component parts of
      all Orthodox Churches, for the good of the Russian Orthodox Church. The
      absence of one of these component parts of the Church will obliterate the
      full value of the adopted resolutions, a quality that is necessary in the
      Russian Orthodox Church. It may also widen the already existing and serious
      differences of opinion within the ROCOR and lead to a split within our
      Church or even a schism.



      *****

      If anyone would like to add his/her name to the laity letter, please say so
      to:
      geosffa@... (George Schidlovsky).
      Thank you.
      George Schidlovsky




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • boulia_1
      Is it accurate to say that the letter was SIGNED by all those clergymen? The version I received stated that they had all attended this meeting, but did they
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 28, 2004
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        Is it accurate to say that the letter was SIGNED by all those
        clergymen? The version I received stated that they had all attended
        this meeting, but did they all actually SIGN this document?

        --Elizabeth

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "George Schidlovsky, Sr"
        <geosffa@i...> wrote:
        > To all ROCOR parishioners:
        >
        > The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the clergy
        letter) and
        > is attached here to testify current events in the ROCOR.
        >
        > The laity letter originates from Koltypin,PN, Magerovsky,EG,
        Bagration,IS,
        > and Schidlovsky G..
        >
        > Both letters will be delivered to the Synod of Bishops in San
        Francisco on 5
        > July when the forthcoming meeting of the Synod is scheduled with as
        many
        > signatures as will be received by then.
        >
        > Îáðàùåíèå ìèðÿí ê Àðõèåðåéñêîìó Ñèíîäó ÐÏÖÇ
        >
        >
        >
        > 27-ãî èþëÿ 2004 ã.
        >
        >
        >
        > Ìû, íèæåïîäïèñàâøèåñÿ, îáðàùàåìñÿ ê Âàì ñ íàñòîÿòåëüíîé ïðîñüáîé íå
        > ïðèíèìàòü ðåøåíèé ïî äåëó î ñáëèæåíèè ñ òåïåðåøíåé Ìîñêîâñêîé
        Ïàòðèàðõèåé äî
        > ñîçûâà Âñåçàðóáåæíîãî Ñîáîðà äóõîâåíñòâà è ìèðÿí, ò.ê. ýòîò
        ñóäüáîíîñíûé
        > âîïðîñ ÿâëÿåòñÿ ñàìûì âàæíûì ñî âðåìåíè 1917 ã. è äîëæåí áûòü îáñóæä
        ¸í
        > ïðåäñòàâèòåëÿìè âñåõ ÷àñòåé íàøåé Öåðêâè ñîáîðíî, â öåëÿõ äîñòèæåíèÿ
        > äóõîâíîãî åäèíñòâà. Ýòî åäèíñòâî âîò óæå â òå÷åíèå ìíîãèõ äåñÿòêîâ
        ëåò, ñ
        > Áîæüåé ïîìîùüþ, âåëî è íàïðàâëÿëî íàøó Öåðêîâü ñêâîçü òüìó âñÿêèõ
        èñïûòàíèé
        > è ñîáëàçíîâ íå-Ïðàâîñëàâíîãî è íå- Õðèñòèàíñêîãî õàðàêòåðà.
        >
        >
        >
        > Ñîõðàíÿÿ ñâîþ íåçàâèñèìîñòü â òå÷åíèå 87 ëåò, Ðóññêàÿ
        > Ïðàâîñëàâíàÿ Öåðêîâü Çàãðàíèöåé, â ñâîåé ïîëíîòå, ñî ñâîèìè
        åïèñêîïàìè,
        > äóõîâåíñòâîì è ìèðÿíàìè, ñîõðàíèëà ÷èñòîòó Ïðàâîñëàâíî-
        Õðèñòèàíñêîãî
        > ìèðîâîççðåíèÿ, êîòîðîå, ê ãëóáîêîìó ñîæàëåíèþ, ìíîãèìè öåðêâàìè
        áûëî óòåðÿíî
        > èëè îïîðî÷åíî.
        >
        >
        >
        > Ýòîò âàæíåéøèé, ïîòðÿñàþùèé íàøè ðåëèãèîçíûå äóøè âîïðîñ äîëæåí áûòü
        > ñâîáîäíî è ñîáîðíî ñî âñåõ ñòîðîí îáñóæä¸í íà íàøåì âñåîáùåì,
        Ïîìåñòíîì
        > Öåðêîâíîì Ñîáîðå—àðõèåðåÿìè, äóõîâåíñòâîì è ìèðÿíàìè—òðåìÿ
        ñîñòàâíûìè
        > ÷àñòÿìè âñåõ èñòèíî Ïðàâîñëàâíûõ Öåðêâåé íà áëàãî Ðóññêîé
        Ïðàâîñëàâíîé
        > Öåðêâå. Îòñóòñòâèå êàêîé-ëèáî èç íèõ óíè÷òîæèò òó ïîëíîöåííîñòü
        ðåøåíèé
        > êîòîðàÿ òàê íåîáõîäèìà Ðóññêîé Ïðàâîñëàâíîé Öåðêâå è, âîçìîæíî,
        ðàñøèðèò è
        > óãëóáèò óæå ñóùåñòâóþùèå â ÐÏÖÇ ñåðüåçíûå ðàçíîãëàñèÿ èëè ðàñêîëû.
        >
        >
        >
        > *****
        >
        > An Appeal by the Laity to the Synod of Bishops of the ROCOR
        >
        > 27 July 2004
        >
        >
        >
        > We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of Bishops with
        the
        > insistent request to refrain from adopting any resolutions on the
        subject of
        > unification in any form of our Church with the existing Moscow
        Patriarchate
        > before the convocation of a ROCOR Sobor that would include the
        participation
        > of bishops, priests and laity.
        >
        >
        >
        > This issue is overwhelmingly the most important issue our Church
        has had to
        > face since 1917 and it must be examined "soborno" by
        representatives of all
        > component parts of our Church, with the aim of reaching spiritual
        unity.
        > With God's help, such unity has guided our Church during the course
        of many
        > decades throughout many non-Christian and non-Orthodox ordeals and
        > temptations.
        >
        > Having maintained its independence over 87 years, the Russian
        Orthodox
        > Church outside Russia in its entirety, with its bishops, priests
        and laity
        > has always sought to preserve the purity of Christian Orthodox
        beliefs and
        > practices which most regrettably have too often been lost or
        reduced by many
        > Churches.
        >
        > This profoundly important issue which closely affects our religious
        life
        > must be freely and thoroughly discussed at a forthcoming All-ROCOR
        Local
        > Council (Sobor) by bishops, priests and laity: the three component
        parts of
        > all Orthodox Churches, for the good of the Russian Orthodox
        Church. The
        > absence of one of these component parts of the Church will
        obliterate the
        > full value of the adopted resolutions, a quality that is necessary
        in the
        > Russian Orthodox Church. It may also widen the already existing
        and serious
        > differences of opinion within the ROCOR and lead to a split within
        our
        > Church or even a schism.
        >
        >
        >
        > *****
        >
        > If anyone would like to add his/her name to the laity letter,
        please say so
        > to:
        > geosffa@i... (George Schidlovsky).
        > Thank you.
        > George Schidlovsky
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sergei Kalfov
        Good point, we heard rumor of this letter s existance here on the west coast. I m somewhat curious as to who really did actually and formally agreed to sign
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 28, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Good point, we heard rumor of this letter''s existance here on the west
          coast.

          I'm somewhat curious as to who really did actually and formally agreed to
          sign this letter in the first place?

          Sergei

          _____

          From: boulia_1 [mailto:eledkovsky@...]
          Sent: Monday, 28 June, 2004 19:36
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: letters to the Synod of Bishops


          Is it accurate to say that the letter was SIGNED by all those
          clergymen? The version I received stated that they had all attended
          this meeting, but did they all actually SIGN this document?

          --Elizabeth

          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "George Schidlovsky, Sr"
          <geosffa@i...> wrote:
          > To all ROCOR parishioners:
          >
          > The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the clergy
          letter) and
          > is attached here to testify current events in the ROCOR.
          >
          > The laity letter originates from Koltypin,PN, Magerovsky,EG,
          Bagration,IS,
          > and Schidlovsky G..
          >
          > Both letters will be delivered to the Synod of Bishops in San
          Francisco on 5
          > July when the forthcoming meeting of the Synod is scheduled with as
          many
          > signatures as will be received by then.
          >
          > Îáðàùåíèå ìèðÿí ê Àðõèåðåéñêîìó Ñèíîäó ÐÏÖÇ
          >
          >
          >
          > 27-ãî èþëÿ 2004 ã.
          >
          >
          >
          > Ìû, íèæåïîäïèñàâøèåñÿ, îáðàùàåìñÿ ê Âàì ñ íàñòîÿòåëüíîé ïðîñüáîé íå
          > ïðèíèìàòü ðåøåíèé ïî äåëó î ñáëèæåíèè ñ òåïåðåøíåé Ìîñêîâñêîé
          Ïàòðèàðõèåé äî
          > ñîçûâà Âñåçàðóáåæíîãî Ñîáîðà äóõîâåíñòâà è ìèðÿí, ò.ê. ýòîò
          ñóäüáîíîñíûé
          > âîïðîñ ÿâëÿåòñÿ ñàìûì âàæíûì ñî âðåìåíè 1917 ã. è äîëæåí áûòü îáñóæä
          ¸í
          > ïðåäñòàâèòåëÿìè âñåõ ÷àñòåé íàøåé Öåðêâè ñîáîðíî, â öåëÿõ äîñòèæåíèÿ
          > äóõîâíîãî åäèíñòâà. Ýòî åäèíñòâî âîò óæå â òå÷åíèå ìíîãèõ äåñÿòêîâ
          ëåò, ñ
          > Áîæüåé ïîìîùüþ, âåëî è íàïðàâëÿëî íàøó Öåðêîâü ñêâîçü òüìó âñÿêèõ
          èñïûòàíèé
          > è ñîáëàçíîâ íå-Ïðàâîñëàâíîãî è íå- Õðèñòèàíñêîãî õàðàêòåðà.
          >
          >
          >
          > Ñîõðàíÿÿ ñâîþ íåçàâèñèìîñòü â òå÷åíèå 87 ëåò, Ðóññêàÿ
          > Ïðàâîñëàâíàÿ Öåðêîâü Çàãðàíèöåé, â ñâîåé ïîëíîòå, ñî ñâîèìè
          åïèñêîïàìè,
          > äóõîâåíñòâîì è ìèðÿíàìè, ñîõðàíèëà ÷èñòîòó Ïðàâîñëàâíî-
          Õðèñòèàíñêîãî
          > ìèðîâîççðåíèÿ, êîòîðîå, ê ãëóáîêîìó ñîæàëåíèþ, ìíîãèìè öåðêâàìè
          áûëî óòåðÿíî
          > èëè îïîðî÷åíî.
          >
          >
          >
          > Ýòîò âàæíåéøèé, ïîòðÿñàþùèé íàøè ðåëèãèîçíûå äóøè âîïðîñ äîëæåí áûòü
          > ñâîáîäíî è ñîáîðíî ñî âñåõ ñòîðîí îáñóæä¸í íà íàøåì âñåîáùåì,
          Ïîìåñòíîì
          > Öåðêîâíîì Ñîáîðå—àðõèåðåÿìè, äóõîâåíñòâîì è ìèðÿíàìè—òðåìÿ
          ñîñòàâíûìè
          > ÷àñòÿìè âñåõ èñòèíî Ïðàâîñëàâíûõ Öåðêâåé íà áëàãî Ðóññêîé
          Ïðàâîñëàâíîé
          > Öåðêâå. Îòñóòñòâèå êàêîé-ëèáî èç íèõ óíè÷òîæèò òó ïîëíîöåííîñòü
          ðåøåíèé
          > êîòîðàÿ òàê íåîáõîäèìà Ðóññêîé Ïðàâîñëàâíîé Öåðêâå è, âîçìîæíî,
          ðàñøèðèò è
          > óãëóáèò óæå ñóùåñòâóþùèå â ÐÏÖÇ ñåðüåçíûå ðàçíîãëàñèÿ èëè ðàñêîëû.
          >
          >
          >
          > *****
          >
          > An Appeal by the Laity to the Synod of Bishops of the ROCOR
          >
          > 27 July 2004
          >
          >
          >
          > We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of Bishops with
          the
          > insistent request to refrain from adopting any resolutions on the
          subject of
          > unification in any form of our Church with the existing Moscow
          Patriarchate
          > before the convocation of a ROCOR Sobor that would include the
          participation
          > of bishops, priests and laity.
          >
          >
          >
          > This issue is overwhelmingly the most important issue our Church
          has had to
          > face since 1917 and it must be examined "soborno" by
          representatives of all
          > component parts of our Church, with the aim of reaching spiritual
          unity.
          > With God's help, such unity has guided our Church during the course
          of many
          > decades throughout many non-Christian and non-Orthodox ordeals and
          > temptations.
          >
          > Having maintained its independence over 87 years, the Russian
          Orthodox
          > Church outside Russia in its entirety, with its bishops, priests
          and laity
          > has always sought to preserve the purity of Christian Orthodox
          beliefs and
          > practices which most regrettably have too often been lost or
          reduced by many
          > Churches.
          >
          > This profoundly important issue which closely affects our religious
          life
          > must be freely and thoroughly discussed at a forthcoming All-ROCOR
          Local
          > Council (Sobor) by bishops, priests and laity: the three component
          parts of
          > all Orthodox Churches, for the good of the Russian Orthodox
          Church. The
          > absence of one of these component parts of the Church will
          obliterate the
          > full value of the adopted resolutions, a quality that is necessary
          in the
          > Russian Orthodox Church. It may also widen the already existing
          and serious
          > differences of opinion within the ROCOR and lead to a split within
          our
          > Church or even a schism.
          >
          >
          >
          > *****
          >
          > If anyone would like to add his/her name to the laity letter,
          please say so
          > to:
          > geosffa@i... (George Schidlovsky).
          > Thank you.
          > George Schidlovsky
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • pvgol@aol.com
          Hello Mr. Schidlovsky-- Please forgive me but I do not remember Your patronymic. Unfortunately AOL does not handle cyrillic fonts -- the cyrillic alphabet
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 28, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Mr. Schidlovsky--

            Please forgive me but I do not remember Your patronymic.

            Unfortunately AOL does not handle cyrillic fonts -- the cyrillic alphabet
            comes accross as "eieio". If time permits, could You please forward the russian
            portion of Your email as an attachment.

            Thank You.

            Vera Gor


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Fr. Basil Grisel
            we did not physically sign since the revised text was not in PRINT but had been edited. There was a question as to whether anyone DID NOT wish to sign, and the
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              we did not physically sign since the revised text was not in PRINT but had been edited. There was a question as to whether anyone DID NOT wish to sign, and the three individuals present who went to Moscow with the metropolitan refrained.

              Without a doubt, the remaining clergy are of ONE MIND and agree fully that the Holy Synod show restraint in these dealings with the MP.

              Fr. Basil
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: boulia_1<mailto:eledkovsky@...>
              To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:35 PM
              Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: letters to the Synod of Bishops


              Is it accurate to say that the letter was SIGNED by all those
              clergymen? The version I received stated that they had all attended
              this meeting, but did they all actually SIGN this document?

              --Elizabeth

              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>, "George Schidlovsky, Sr"
              <geosffa@i<mailto:geosffa@i>...> wrote:
              > To all ROCOR parishioners:
              >
              > The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the clergy
              letter) and
              > is attached here to testify current events in the ROCOR.
              >
              > The laity letter originates from Koltypin,PN, Magerovsky,EG,
              Bagration,IS,
              > and Schidlovsky G..
              >
              > Both letters will be delivered to the Synod of Bishops in San
              Francisco on 5
              > July when the forthcoming meeting of the Synod is scheduled with as
              many
              > signatures as will be received by then.
              >
              > Îáðàùåíèå ìèðÿí ê Àðõèåðåéñêîìó Ñèíîäó ÐÏÖÇ
              >
              >
              >
              > 27-ãî èþëÿ 2004 ã.
              >
              >
              >
              > Ìû, íèæåïîäïèñàâøèåñÿ, îáðàùàåìñÿ ê Âàì ñ íàñòîÿòåëüíîé ïðîñüáîé íå
              > ïðèíèìàòü ðåøåíèé ïî äåëó î ñáëèæåíèè ñ òåïåðåøíåé Ìîñêîâñêîé
              Ïàòðèàðõèåé äî
              > ñîçûâà Âñåçàðóáåæíîãî Ñîáîðà äóõîâåíñòâà è ìèðÿí, ò.ê. ýòîò
              ñóäüáîíîñíûé
              > âîïðîñ ÿâëÿåòñÿ ñàìûì âàæíûì ñî âðåìåíè 1917 ã. è äîëæåí áûòü îáñóæä
              ¸í
              > ïðåäñòàâèòåëÿìè âñåõ ÷àñòåé íàøåé Öåðêâè ñîáîðíî, â öåëÿõ äîñòèæåíèÿ
              > äóõîâíîãî åäèíñòâà. Ýòî åäèíñòâî âîò óæå â òå÷åíèå ìíîãèõ äåñÿòêîâ
              ëåò, ñ
              > Áîæüåé ïîìîùüþ, âåëî è íàïðàâëÿëî íàøó Öåðêîâü ñêâîçü òüìó âñÿêèõ
              èñïûòàíèé
              > è ñîáëàçíîâ íå-Ïðàâîñëàâíîãî è íå- Õðèñòèàíñêîãî õàðàêòåðà.
              >
              >
              >
              > Ñîõðàíÿÿ ñâîþ íåçàâèñèìîñòü â òå÷åíèå 87 ëåò, Ðóññêàÿ
              > Ïðàâîñëàâíàÿ Öåðêîâü Çàãðàíèöåé, â ñâîåé ïîëíîòå, ñî ñâîèìè
              åïèñêîïàìè,
              > äóõîâåíñòâîì è ìèðÿíàìè, ñîõðàíèëà ÷èñòîòó Ïðàâîñëàâíî-
              Õðèñòèàíñêîãî
              > ìèðîâîççðåíèÿ, êîòîðîå, ê ãëóáîêîìó ñîæàëåíèþ, ìíîãèìè öåðêâàìè
              áûëî óòåðÿíî
              > èëè îïîðî÷åíî.
              >
              >
              >
              > Ýòîò âàæíåéøèé, ïîòðÿñàþùèé íàøè ðåëèãèîçíûå äóøè âîïðîñ äîëæåí áûòü
              > ñâîáîäíî è ñîáîðíî ñî âñåõ ñòîðîí îáñóæä¸í íà íàøåì âñåîáùåì,
              Ïîìåñòíîì
              > Öåðêîâíîì Ñîáîðå-àðõèåðåÿìè, äóõîâåíñòâîì è ìèðÿíàìè-òðåìÿ
              ñîñòàâíûìè
              > ÷àñòÿìè âñåõ èñòèíî Ïðàâîñëàâíûõ Öåðêâåé íà áëàãî Ðóññêîé
              Ïðàâîñëàâíîé
              > Öåðêâå. Îòñóòñòâèå êàêîé-ëèáî èç íèõ óíè÷òîæèò òó ïîëíîöåííîñòü
              ðåøåíèé
              > êîòîðàÿ òàê íåîáõîäèìà Ðóññêîé Ïðàâîñëàâíîé Öåðêâå è, âîçìîæíî,
              ðàñøèðèò è
              > óãëóáèò óæå ñóùåñòâóþùèå â ÐÏÖÇ ñåðüåçíûå ðàçíîãëàñèÿ èëè ðàñêîëû.
              >
              >
              >
              > *****
              >
              > An Appeal by the Laity to the Synod of Bishops of the ROCOR
              >
              > 27 July 2004
              >
              >
              >
              > We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of Bishops with
              the
              > insistent request to refrain from adopting any resolutions on the
              subject of
              > unification in any form of our Church with the existing Moscow
              Patriarchate
              > before the convocation of a ROCOR Sobor that would include the
              participation
              > of bishops, priests and laity.
              >
              >
              >
              > This issue is overwhelmingly the most important issue our Church
              has had to
              > face since 1917 and it must be examined "soborno" by
              representatives of all
              > component parts of our Church, with the aim of reaching spiritual
              unity.
              > With God's help, such unity has guided our Church during the course
              of many
              > decades throughout many non-Christian and non-Orthodox ordeals and
              > temptations.
              >
              > Having maintained its independence over 87 years, the Russian
              Orthodox
              > Church outside Russia in its entirety, with its bishops, priests
              and laity
              > has always sought to preserve the purity of Christian Orthodox
              beliefs and
              > practices which most regrettably have too often been lost or
              reduced by many
              > Churches.
              >
              > This profoundly important issue which closely affects our religious
              life
              > must be freely and thoroughly discussed at a forthcoming All-ROCOR
              Local
              > Council (Sobor) by bishops, priests and laity: the three component
              parts of
              > all Orthodox Churches, for the good of the Russian Orthodox
              Church. The
              > absence of one of these component parts of the Church will
              obliterate the
              > full value of the adopted resolutions, a quality that is necessary
              in the
              > Russian Orthodox Church. It may also widen the already existing
              and serious
              > differences of opinion within the ROCOR and lead to a split within
              our
              > Church or even a schism.
              >
              >
              >
              > *****
              >
              > If anyone would like to add his/her name to the laity letter,
              please say so
              > to:
              > geosffa@i<mailto:geosffa@i>... (George Schidlovsky).
              > Thank you.
              > George Schidlovsky
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod<http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod>


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Fr. John R. Shaw
              ... agreed to ... JRS: It appears that nobody really signed it: someone merely asked Who here does NOT want to sign? . In Christ Fr. John R. Shaw
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                Sergei Kalfov wrote:

                > I'm somewhat curious as to who really did actually and formally
                agreed to
                > sign this letter in the first place?

                JRS: It appears that nobody really signed it: someone merely asked "Who
                here does NOT want to sign?".

                In Christ
                Fr. John R. Shaw
              • Fr. John R. Shaw
                ... letter) and ... Bagration,IS, ... Francisco on 5 ... many ... Патриархией до ... судьбоносный ... лет, с ...
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  > To all ROCOR parishioners:
                  >
                  > The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the clergy
                  letter) and
                  > is attached here to testify current events in the ROCOR.
                  >
                  > The laity letter originates from Koltypin,PN, Magerovsky,EG,
                  Bagration,IS,
                  > and Schidlovsky G..
                  >
                  > Both letters will be delivered to the Synod of Bishops in San
                  Francisco on 5
                  > July when the forthcoming meeting of the Synod is scheduled with as
                  many
                  > signatures as will be received by then.
                  >
                  > Îáðàùåíèå ìèðÿí ê Àðõèåðåéñêîìó Ñèíîäó ÐÏÖÇ
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 27-ãî èþëÿ 2004 ã.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ìû, íèæåïîäïèñàâøèåñÿ, îáðàùàåìñÿ ê Âàì ñ íàñòîÿòåëüíîé ïðîñüáîé íå
                  > ïðèíèìàòü ðåøåíèé ïî äåëó î ñáëèæåíèè ñ òåïåðåøíåé Ìîñêîâñêîé
                  Ïàòðèàðõèåé äî
                  > ñîçûâà Âñåçàðóáåæíîãî Ñîáîðà äóõîâåíñòâà è ìèðÿí, ò.ê. ýòîò
                  ñóäüáîíîñíûé
                  > âîïðîñ ÿâëÿåòñÿ ñàìûì âàæíûì ñî âðåìåíè 1917 ã. è äîëæåí áûòü îáñóæä¸í
                  > ïðåäñòàâèòåëÿìè âñåõ ÷àñòåé íàøåé Öåðêâè ñîáîðíî, â öåëÿõ äîñòèæåíèÿ
                  > äóõîâíîãî åäèíñòâà. Ýòî åäèíñòâî âîò óæå â òå÷åíèå ìíîãèõ äåñÿòêîâ
                  ëåò, ñ
                  > Áîæüåé ïîìîùüþ, âåëî è íàïðàâëÿëî íàøó Öåðêîâü ñêâîçü òüìó âñÿêèõ
                  èñïûòàíèé
                  > è ñîáëàçíîâ íå-Ïðàâîñëàâíîãî è íå- Õðèñòèàíñêîãî õàðàêòåðà.
                  >
                  >
                  Regarding:

                  > We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of Bishops with
                  the
                  > insistent request...

                  JRS: Note that this English translation has been modified from the
                  Russian text.

                  The English adds the word "respectfully", but the Russian simply
                  says, "We demand" -- or it could be rendered also as, "we *insistently*
                  demand..."

                  The form used in the Russian is neither respectful, nor especially
                  polite.

                  In Christ
                  Fr. John R. Shaw
                • Fr. Alexis Duncan
                  I can affirm Fr. Basil’s statement. Three letters were adopted as official statements and were directed by Bishop Gabriel to appear on the synod web site.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                    I can affirm Fr. Basil’s statement. Three letters were
                    adopted as official statements and were directed by Bishop
                    Gabriel to appear on the synod web site. All clergymen
                    present, with three exceptions, were of one mind. I expect
                    the web site will include these statements within a day or
                    so.


                    Fr. Alexis Duncan



                    we did not physically sign since the revised text was not in
                    PRINT but had been edited. There was a question as to
                    whether anyone DID NOT wish to sign, and the three
                    individuals present who went to Moscow with the metropolitan
                    refrained.

                    Without a doubt, the remaining clergy are of ONE MIND and
                    agree fully that the Holy Synod show restraint in these
                    dealings with the MP.

                    Fr. Basil

                    Is it accurate to say that the letter was SIGNED by all
                    those
                    clergymen? The version I received stated that they had all
                    attended
                    this meeting, but did they all actually SIGN this
                    document?

                    --Elizabeth




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Fr. Alexis Duncan
                    No, there was a consensus. Three clergymen who had been in Russia on delegation refused to take part in the statement. The remainder, with unanimous voice,
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                      No, there was a consensus. Three clergymen who had been in
                      Russia on delegation refused to take part in the statement.
                      The remainder, with unanimous voice, agreed to have their
                      names attached to the three letters. All three letters will
                      be placed on the synod web site, hopefully within a very
                      short period of time.


                      Fr. Alexis Duncan
                      Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
                      Atlanta, GA


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Fr. John R. Shaw [mailto:vrevjrs@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:24 AM
                      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com;
                      orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [orthodox-synod] Re: letters to the Synod of
                      Bishops

                      Sergei Kalfov wrote:

                      > I'm somewhat curious as to who really did actually and
                      formally
                      agreed to
                      > sign this letter in the first place?

                      JRS: It appears that nobody really signed it: someone merely
                      asked "Who
                      here does NOT want to sign?".

                      In Christ
                      Fr. John R. Shaw



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Fr. John R. Shaw
                      ... JRS: Surely the Metropolitan would have the final say -- not Bishop Gabriel. In Christ Fr. John R. Shaw
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                        Fr. Alexis Duncan wrote:

                        > Three letters were
                        > adopted as official statements and were directed by Bishop
                        > Gabriel to appear on the synod web site. All clergymen
                        > present, with three exceptions, were of one mind. I expect
                        > the web site will include these statements within a day or
                        > so.

                        JRS: Surely the Metropolitan would have the final say -- not Bishop
                        Gabriel.

                        In Christ
                        Fr. John R. Shaw
                      • Fr. Alexis Duncan
                        I thought that perhaps Fr. John’s translation would be better. The words “íàñòîÿòåëüíîé ïðîñüáîé” would usually translate as
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                          I thought that perhaps Fr. John�s translation would be
                          better. The words �������������� ��������� would usually
                          translate as �urgently request�, not �insistently demand.�

                          Fr. Alexis Duncan
                          Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
                          Atlanta, GA

                          ���. ������� ������
                          ������� ������������ ������� ���� ��������� �������
                          �������, �������, ���

                          www.orthodoxinfo.biz

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Fr. John R. Shaw [mailto:vrevjrs@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:30 AM
                          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] letters to the Synod of
                          Bishops



                          > To all ROCOR parishioners:
                          >
                          > The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the
                          clergy
                          letter) and
                          > is attached here to testify current events in the ROCOR.
                          >
                          > The laity letter originates from Koltypin,PN,
                          Magerovsky,EG,
                          Bagration,IS,
                          > and Schidlovsky G..
                          >
                          > Both letters will be delivered to the Synod of Bishops in
                          San
                          Francisco on 5
                          > July when the forthcoming meeting of the Synod is
                          scheduled with as
                          many
                          > signatures as will be received by then.
                          >
                          > ��������� ����� � ������������� ������ ����
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 27-�� ���� 2004 �.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ��, �����������������, ���������� � ��� � �������������
                          �������� ��
                          > ��������� ������� �� ���� � ��������� � ����������
                          ����������
                          ����������� ��
                          > ������ �������������� ������ ����������� � �����, �.�.
                          ����
                          ������������
                          > ������ �������� ����� ������ �� ������� 1917 �. � ������
                          ���� ��������
                          > ��������������� ���� ������ ����� ������ �������, � �����
                          ����������
                          > ��������� ��������. ��� �������� ��� ��� � ������� ������
                          ��������
                          ���, �
                          > ������ �������, ���� � ���������� ���� ������� ������ ����
                          ������
                          ���������
                          > � ��������� ��-������������� � ��- �������������
                          ���������.
                          >
                          >
                          Regarding:

                          > We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of
                          Bishops with
                          the
                          > insistent request...

                          JRS: Note that this English translation has been modified
                          from the
                          Russian text.

                          The English adds the word "respectfully", but the Russian
                          simply
                          says, "We demand" -- or it could be rendered also as, "we
                          *insistently*
                          demand..."

                          The form used in the Russian is neither respectful, nor
                          especially
                          polite.

                          In Christ
                          Fr. John R. Shaw



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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Fr. Alexis Duncan
                          The Metropolitan was present and did not object when we made the request. He is usually not shy about objecting when he hears something he doesn’t want. I am
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                            The Metropolitan was present and did not object when we made
                            the request. He is usually not shy about objecting when he
                            hears something he doesn’t want. I am likewise sure he would
                            not deny this agreement later on.


                            Fr. Alexis Duncan
                            Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
                            Atlanta, GA

                            ???. ??????? ??????
                            ??????? ???????????? ??????? ???? ????????? ???????
                            ???????, ???????, ???

                            www.orthodoxinfo.biz


                            Fr. Alexis Duncan wrote:

                            > Three letters were
                            > adopted as official statements and were directed by Bishop
                            > Gabriel to appear on the synod web site. All clergymen
                            > present, with three exceptions, were of one mind. I expect
                            > the web site will include these statements within a day or
                            > so.

                            JRS: Surely the Metropolitan would have the final say -- not
                            Bishop
                            Gabriel.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • ourlittlecity@aol.com
                            In a message dated 6/29/2004 7:44:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, vrevjrs@execpc.com writes: JRS: Surely the Metropolitan would have the final say -- not Bishop
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In a message dated 6/29/2004 7:44:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                              vrevjrs@... writes:
                              JRS: Surely the Metropolitan would have the final say -- not Bishop
                              Gabriel.
                              Wow, the ink was not even dry when that point of order was vocalized, but if
                              it were only a point of order to clarify the process - why was it necessary
                              to add a negative in conjunction with Bishop Gabriel's name? Did the author
                              actually believe that Bishop Gabriel was going to coerce the official web-site
                              editor to post against his will? Or does the author believe that the
                              Metropolitan should or will squelch the letter?

                              rdr. john dunn


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Fr. John R. Shaw
                              ... JRS: It is not mine to tell the Metropolitan what to do. However, I do not think we will see the letter in question on the official ROCOR website. In
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                rdr. john dunn wrote:

                                > does the author [i.e. Fr. John R. Shaw] believe that the
                                > Metropolitan should or will squelch the letter?

                                JRS: It is not mine to tell the Metropolitan what to do.

                                However, I do not think we will see the letter in question on the
                                official ROCOR website.

                                In Christ
                                Fr. John R. Shaw
                              • Fr. John R. Shaw
                                ... JRS: But it does *not* say respectfully -- whereas the English translation does, softening the tone of the original. In Christ Fr. John R. Shaw
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexis Duncan"
                                  <7848@a...> wrote:

                                  > I thought that perhaps Fr. John's translation would be
                                  > better. The words "íàñòîÿòåëüíîé ïðîñüáîé" would usually
                                  > translate as "urgently request", not "insistently demand."

                                  JRS: But it does *not* say "respectfully" -- whereas the
                                  English "translation" does, softening the tone of the original.

                                  In Christ
                                  Fr. John R. Shaw
                                • ourlittlecity@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 6/29/2004 9:41:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, vrevjrs@execpc.com writes: JRS: It is not mine to tell the Metropolitan what to do. However, I
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In a message dated 6/29/2004 9:41:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    vrevjrs@... writes:
                                    JRS: It is not mine to tell the Metropolitan what to do.

                                    However, I do not think we will see the letter in question on the
                                    official ROCOR website.
                                    Ahhh! Then neither should the point of order have included any wording which
                                    might be construed as a charge that Bishop Gabriel would feel or do anything
                                    differently.

                                    But a new question now seems pertinent; would Fr. John Shaw feel it is within
                                    in his right to "urgently request" that it should not be posted thereon?

                                    rdr. john dunn


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Fr. John R. Shaw
                                    ... is within ... thereon? JRS: That would be superfluous, I think.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      John Dunn wrote:

                                      > But a new question now seems pertinent; would Fr. John Shaw feel it
                                      is within
                                      > in his right to "urgently request" that it should not be posted
                                      thereon?

                                      JRS: That would be superfluous, I think.
                                    • Fr. Anthony Nelson
                                      ... I suggest that there is something oxymoronic in the above...a description of a consensus not shared by some persons present who refused to take part in
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        "Fr. Alexis Duncan" <7848@...> wrote:

                                        >No, there was a consensus. Three clergymen who had been in
                                        >Russia on delegation refused to take part in the statement.
                                        >The remainder, with unanimous voice,

                                        I suggest that there is something oxymoronic in the above...a description
                                        of a "consensus" not shared by some persons present who refused to take
                                        part in the "unanimous voice" ... that explains a lot about the mindset of
                                        those opposed to union in the Church.

                                        >All three letters will be placed on the synod web site, hopefully within a
                                        >very
                                        >short period of time.

                                        It would seem that the placement of such letters on the official web site
                                        is a simple lie, since there was nothing "official" in any true sense in
                                        the meeting that took place. Perhaps Bishop Gabriel would order the
                                        placement of three letters expressing an opposite point of view? I expect
                                        those could be presented in short order.

                                        Fr. Anthony



                                        >Fr. Alexis Duncan
                                        >Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church
                                        >Atlanta, GA
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                        >From: Fr. John R. Shaw [mailto:vrevjrs@...]
                                        >Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:24 AM
                                        >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com;
                                        >orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Subject: RE: [orthodox-synod] Re: letters to the Synod of
                                        >Bishops
                                        >
                                        >Sergei Kalfov wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > I'm somewhat curious as to who really did actually and
                                        >formally
                                        >agreed to
                                        > > sign this letter in the first place?
                                        >
                                        >JRS: It appears that nobody really signed it: someone merely
                                        >asked "Who
                                        >here does NOT want to sign?".
                                        >
                                        >In Christ
                                        >Fr. John R. Shaw
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Archives located at
                                        >http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • a-geos
                                        ... I *respectfully* beg to differ... The Russian text *literally* says: We, who have signed below [i.e., we, the signatories (of this letter)], insistently
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                                          At 04:29 AM 6/29/04, Fr. John R. Shaw wrote:


                                          >To all ROCOR parishioners:
                                          >
                                          >The clergy letter originates from the undersigned (in the clergy letter)
                                          >and is attached here to testify current events in the ROCOR.
                                          >
                                          >The laity letter originates from Koltypin,PN,
                                          >Magerovsky,EG, Bagration,IS, and Schidlovsky G..
                                          >
                                          >Both letters will be delivered to the Synod of Bishops in San Francisco on
                                          >5 July when the forthcoming meeting of the Synod is scheduled with as many
                                          >signatures as will be received by then.
                                          >
                                          >>нАПЮЫЕМХЕ ЛХПЪМ Й юПУХЕПЕИЯЙНЛС яХМНДС пожг
                                          >>
                                          >>27-ЦН ХЧКЪ 2004 Ц.
                                          >>
                                          >>лШ, МХФЕОНДОХЯЮБЬХЕЯЪ, НАПЮЫЮЕЛЯЪ Й бЮЛ Я МЮЯРНЪРЕКЭМНИ ОПНЯЭАНИ МЕ
                                          >>ОПХМХЛЮРЭ ПЕЬЕМХИ ОН ДЕКС Н ЯАКХФЕМХХ Я РЕОЕПЕЬМЕИ лНЯЙНБЯЙНИ оЮРПХЮПУХЕИ
                                          >>ДН ЯНГШБЮ бЯЕГЮПСАЕФМНЦН яНАНПЮ ДСУНБЕМЯРБЮ Х ЛХПЪМ, Р.Й. ЩРНР
                                          >>ЯСДЭАНМНЯМШИ БНОПНЯ ЪБКЪЕРЯЪ ЯЮЛШЛ БЮФМШЛ ЯН БПЕЛЕМХ 1917 Ц. Х ДНКФЕМ
                                          >>АШРЭ НАЯСФД╦М ОПЕДЯРЮБХРЕКЪЛХ БЯЕУ ВЮЯРЕИ МЮЬЕИ жЕПЙБХ ЯНАНПМН, Б ЖЕКЪУ
                                          >>ДНЯРХФЕМХЪ ДСУНБМНЦН ЕДХМЯРБЮ. щРН ЕДХМЯРБН БНР СФЕ Б РЕВЕМХЕ ЛМНЦХУ ДЕЯЪРЙНБ
                                          >>КЕР, Я аНФЭЕИ ОНЛНЫЭЧ, БЕКН Х МЮОПЮБКЪКН МЮЬС жЕПЙНБЭ ЯЙБНГЭ РЭЛС БЯЪЙХУ
                                          >>ХЯОШРЮМХИ Х ЯНАКЮГМНБ МЕ-оПЮБНЯКЮБМНЦН Х МЕ- уПХЯРХЮМЯЙНЦН УЮПЮЙРЕПЮ.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Regarding:
                                          >
                                          >>We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of Bishops with the
                                          >>insistent request...
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >JRS: Note that this English translation has been modified from the Russian
                                          >text.
                                          >
                                          >The English adds the word "respectfully", but the Russian simply says, "We
                                          >demand" -- or it could be rendered also as, "we *insistently* demand..."
                                          >
                                          >The form used in the Russian is neither respectful, nor especially polite.
                                          >
                                          >In Christ
                                          >Fr. John R. Shaw


                                          I *respectfully* beg to differ... The Russian text *literally* says:

                                          "We, who have signed below [i.e., we, the signatories (of this letter)],

                                          insistently [or: steadfastly; or: resolutely]

                                          turn ourselves to [i.e., petition; or: entreat; or: appeal to; or: request of]

                                          You that You not make any decisions in the matter of rapprochement with the
                                          present-day Moscow Patriarchate..."

                                          As someone whose native language is Russian (which I have spoken for over
                                          sixty years, now)...,

                                          as someone with a degree in said language from the University of
                                          Washington...,

                                          as someone who has taught it on both the college and secondary school
                                          levels...,

                                          and as someone who has worked for years as a credentialed Russian-English
                                          translator/interpreter...,

                                          I, unlike Fr. John, find *no* evidence of any lack of respect or politeness
                                          in the foregoing.

                                          Quite the contrary, in fact, unless Fr. John interprets an expression of
                                          *urgency* on the part of the signatories as being said lack of respect or
                                          politeness, which I do not. (Both respect and politeness can be
                                          *implicit*, after all...)

                                          Nor is there any evidence of any "demand" (trebovaniye) on their part,
                                          either, unless Fr. John views the very fact of their "entreaty", or
                                          "appeal", or "urgent request", in and of itself, as being "neither
                                          respectful, nor especially polite."

                                          The only thing that I *do* have a question about is the fact that the
                                          letter is dated 27 JULY (sic.) 2004, when it is intended for delivery on 05
                                          July 2004.

                                          -- GeoS
                                        • Athanasios Jayne
                                          We, the undersigned, respectfully address our Synod of Bishops with the insistent request to refrain from adopting any resolutions on the subject of
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 29, 2004
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                                            "We, the undersigned, respectfully address our
                                            Synod of Bishops with the insistent request to
                                            refrain from adopting any resolutions on the
                                            subject of unification in any form of our Church
                                            with the existing Moscow Patriarchate before the
                                            convocation of a ROCOR Sobor that would include
                                            the participation of bishops, priests and laity."<

                                            Has the Synod of Bishops ever *said* they
                                            plan to adopt resolutions on the subject of
                                            unification,--without the convocation of a
                                            ROCOR Sobor?

                                            If not, then the "Letter" has the appearance of
                                            haste, assumption, and presumption. Worse,
                                            it dishonors our Archpastors by an evident lack
                                            of trust.

                                            Athanasios.
                                          • Benjamin William Champley Waterhouse
                                            Father Bless! Quel Suprise. With Love in Him KYRH Sinner Benjamin
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 30, 2004
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                                              Father Bless!

                                              Quel Suprise.

                                              With Love in Him
                                              KYRH
                                              Sinner Benjamin

                                              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
                                              <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                                              > rdr. john dunn wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > does the author [i.e. Fr. John R. Shaw] believe that the
                                              > > Metropolitan should or will squelch the letter?
                                              >
                                              > JRS: It is not mine to tell the Metropolitan what to do.
                                              >
                                              > However, I do not think we will see the letter in question on the
                                              > official ROCOR website.
                                              >
                                              > In Christ
                                              > Fr. John R. Shaw
                                            • Fr. John R. Shaw
                                              ... Moi aussi, je suis etonne. En Christ JRS
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 30, 2004
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                                                > Father Bless!
                                                >
                                                > Quel Suprise.

                                                Moi aussi, je suis etonne.

                                                En Christ
                                                JRS
                                              • Fr. John R. Shaw
                                                ... letter)], ... request of] ... with the ... JRS: My point was that the English translation inserts the word respectfully , a word which is *not* in the
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jun 30, 2004
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                                                  George Spruksts wrote:

                                                  > The Russian text *literally* says:
                                                  >
                                                  > "We, who have signed below [i.e., we, the signatories (of this
                                                  letter)],
                                                  >
                                                  > insistently [or: steadfastly; or: resolutely]
                                                  >
                                                  > turn ourselves to [i.e., petition; or: entreat; or: appeal to; or:
                                                  request of]
                                                  >
                                                  > You that You not make any decisions in the matter of rapprochement
                                                  with the
                                                  > present-day Moscow Patriarchate..."

                                                  JRS: My point was that the English translation inserts the
                                                  word "respectfully", a word which is *not* in the Russian original.

                                                  Thus, English readers can be misled about that what they are being
                                                  asked to sign.

                                                  I quite understand that Mr. Spruksts has spoken Russian all his life. I
                                                  have spoken Russian since I was 14.

                                                  In Christ
                                                  Fr. John R. Shaw
                                                • byakimov@csc.com.au
                                                  Father he is saying he is a professional linguist & you are not. Fr. John R. Shaw on 30/06/2004 10:03:11 PM Please respond to
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jun 30, 2004
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                                                    Father he is saying he is a professional linguist & you are not.




                                                    "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> on 30/06/2004 10:03:11 PM

                                                    Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com

                                                    To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                                    cc:
                                                    Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] letters to the Synod of Bishops



                                                    George Spruksts wrote:

                                                    > The Russian text *literally* says:
                                                    >
                                                    > "We, who have signed below [i.e., we, the signatories (of this
                                                    letter)],
                                                    >
                                                    > insistently [or: steadfastly; or: resolutely]
                                                    >
                                                    > turn ourselves to [i.e., petition; or: entreat; or: appeal to; or:
                                                    request of]
                                                    >
                                                    > You that You not make any decisions in the matter of rapprochement
                                                    with the
                                                    > present-day Moscow Patriarchate..."

                                                    JRS: My point was that the English translation inserts the
                                                    word "respectfully", a word which is *not* in the Russian original.

                                                    Thus, English readers can be misled about that what they are being
                                                    asked to sign.

                                                    I quite understand that Mr. Spruksts has spoken Russian all his life. I
                                                    have spoken Russian since I was 14.

                                                    In Christ
                                                    Fr. John R. Shaw




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                                                  • Fr. John R. Shaw
                                                    ... JRS: No, I only said I have spoken Russian since age 14 . However, I did translate one book on linguistics (Vl. Alypy s Slavonic Grammar) that was
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jul 1, 2004
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                                                      Dcn. Basil Yakimov wrote:

                                                      > Father he is saying he is a professional linguist & you are not.

                                                      JRS: No, I only said "I have spoken Russian since age 14".

                                                      However, I did translate one book on linguistics (Vl. Alypy's Slavonic
                                                      Grammar) that was published by Jordanville.

                                                      In Christ
                                                      Fr. John R. Shaw
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