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Re: Digest Number 1279

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  • vkozyreff
    Dear Dimitra, You write : All the ones I can think of left ROCOR of their own accord. Even in the case of France (where they voluntarily chose not to go to
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 2, 2004
      Dear Dimitra,

      You write : " All the ones I can think of left ROCOR of their own
      accord. Even in the case of France (where they voluntarily chose not
      to go to the meeting of bishops) and the Russian ROCOR bishops,
      wasn't it suspension and then later defrocking? That is something
      different from excommunication. What "mass excommunication" do you
      have in mind here, and does anyone from ROCOR care to comment?".

      VK:

      Can you think of me? I did not leave, I did not leave of my own
      accord, and I have constantly advocated reconciliation on this forum.
      This has been discussed many times on this forum. We know that we
      have different views, and I am convinced of your good faith. Please
      give me credit for my good faith as well. Just repeating again and
      again the same statements is useless, we return constantly to square
      1 of the discussion.

      Again, last Sunday, some of us met with our ROCOR(L) friends at the
      occasion of a marriage. Our ROCOR(L) friends repeated stubbornly that
      we were wrong because we "did not obey the bishop".

      Again and again, nobody disputes the principle, the question is about
      exceptions, when the bishop and the conscience come in opposition.
      The canons do provide for exceptions. What is astonishing, is that
      our ROCOR(L) friends did not even know this, and that personal
      enmities do play an awful role. Many of our ROCOR(L) friends are
      still convinced that there will be no union with the MP, and know
      nothing about the latest events.

      In God,

      Vladimir Kozyreff


      See, for instance: Message 8448

      The New Russian Martyr Metropolitan Cyril of Kazan wrote in
      1929: "church discipline can remain valid only as long as it is an
      actual reflection of the hierarchical conscience of the conciliar
      Church; discipline can never itself replace this conscience...

      The Church is not the hierarchs. The Church is the assembly of
      hierarchs, priests and believers. To appoint bishops without taking
      conciliarity into account or proceeding to mass excommunications is
      not conciliarity and is contrary to Church discipline. Believers are
      nothing without their bishops, bishops are nothing without the
      believers. The Orthodox Church is not a papist organisation.

      Message 7329

      … the synod has judged, condemned and proceeded to a mass exclusion
      that is a mutilation of our dear Church. I think that it might have
      been avoided and that it comes from the fact that the question has
      been managed as a purely disciplinary one.

      Message 8430

      As was already discussed, they had been summoned to Munich (at very
      short notice), but had not been advised that they would appear before
      an ecclesial tribunal to be judged. They had not been informed about
      the composition of a court that would judge them. If a regular
      judgement had taken place, the accused clerics might have use their
      right to challenge the judges («11.) The accused bishop or cleric
      has, at all judicial levels, the right to challenge the judges, of
      which he must inform the President no later than two weeks after
      receiving the summons to court»).



      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@v...> wrote:
      > All the ones I can think of left ROCOR of their own accord. Even
      in the case of France (where they voluntarily chose not to go to the
      meeting of bishops) and the Russian ROCOR bishops, wasn't it
      suspension and then later defrocking? That is something different
      from excommunication. What "mass excommunication" do you have in
      mind here, and does anyone from ROCOR care to comment?
      >
      > --Dimitra
      >
      > On 2 Jun 2004 01:36:35 -0000, orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > It is the anti-MP "extremists" who have been
      > subjected to mass excommunication.
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