Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[orthodox-synod] Re: Fw: Answers to R. Miller and K. Kettenhofen (part 2)

Expand Messages
  • alypius
    AMONG MANY OF TODAY S ORTHODOX, THERE SEEMS TO BE AN IMPATIENCE WITH THEIR (UNACKNOWLEDGED?) BROTHERS IN WORLD ORTHODOXY --AND WITH THE MODERATE WING OF
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 5, 1999
    • 0 Attachment
      AMONG MANY OF TODAY'S ORTHODOX, THERE SEEMS TO BE AN IMPATIENCE WITH THEIR
      (UNACKNOWLEDGED?) BROTHERS IN "WORLD ORTHODOXY"--AND WITH THE MODERATE WING
      OF ROCOR--THAT STRIKES ME AS EXCEEDING WHAT ONE FINDS IN THE CHURCH'S
      HISTORY OF DEALING WITH, FOR EXAMPLE, ROME, THE MONOPHYSITES, OR THE
      NESTORIANS. IT MAKES ME THINK OF THE OLD BELIEVER DISPUTE, IN WHICH THE OLD
      BELIEVERS WENT SO FAR AS TO STATE THAT THE REIGNING TSAR WAS THE ANTICHRIST.
      I UNDERSTAND NOW WHY SO MANY CLERGY OUTSIDE ROCOR HAVE SUCH A POOR OPINION
      OF US. ITS NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL ECUMENISTS AND MODERNISTS. PRIEST
      STEPHEN'S RECENT POST READS LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF A HAL LINDSEY BOOK.
      REMINDS ME OF MY DAYS AS A HARDSHELL FUNDMENTAL BAPTIST. SO WHEN'S THE NEXT
      ROCOR BIBLE PROPHECY SEMINAR?

      Some (many?) of us in the ROCOR are concerned about the
      apostasy from Orthodoxy taking place in *all*+ of the local
      Churches today: the
      Church of Christ is getting smaller; therefore, the salvation of
      souls is getting less - perhaps even the salvation of those who now
      *are* Orthodox. Christ has told us that when he comes again
      the faith will be hard to find. Metropolitan Vitally has also written
      that the true Body and Blood of Christ will be found only in a
      few places....
      There is merely
      an angst warning us about the end times and its consequences for
      those who are trying to be followers of Christ. We know that the majority
      of those who call themselves Orthodox will, in fact, be outside
      the Church....
      1) we are not to have any dialogue with the MP; neither on the parish,
      monastic, nor patriarchal level. (How can the MP have grace when
      we consider it infected with the heresies of Sergianism and
      Ecumenism;
      uncanonical; and non-existent? It is, in fact, schismatic. We have
      not recognized the elevation of anyone to the Patriarchal Throne
      since
      St. Tikhon! Do schismatics and heretics have grace?)

      IF THIS WERE THE FORMAL TEACHING OF THE ROCOR BISHOPS, WHO REALLY WOULD BE
      IN SCHISM? "LET HIM THAT THINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL."

      2) since we regard the OCA as being in schism from us, we are not to
      have even "prayerful communion" with them.

      3) the Anathema of 83 has settled once and for all our stand against
      those who proclaim the ecumenist dogma and who belong to
      their organizations. We are not in communion with them.
      (The Serbian Patriarchate is one of these. How can one commemorate
      the Pope and still be Orthodox? How can any Orthodox Christian be
      in communion with such a one?)

      4) the Church Abroad has not *officially* said there is no grace outside
      of
      her. Since this is so, she allows us the possibility of using extreme
      discretion and caution in any decision we may make about giving
      the mysteries to those not of her. (In making these decisions we
      are *not* to give scandal to those of us who are "weaker" or lack
      understanding. Those of the household come *first,* then, others.
      St. Paul would not even touch meat if in doing so it would give
      scandal.
      Any decision to give pastoral comfort to those not in communion with
      us must take into consideration *all* who *are* of us. Furthermore,
      since no direction (at least not definitive) has been forthcoming
      concerning giving the mysteries to those with whom we are not in
      communion, using discretion *not* to give must be respected by
      those who use occasional, extreme discretion *to* give. Under the
      present circumstances, not to give the mysteries is the better
      choice.)


      All the clergy of the ROCOR are brothers in Christ.

      AND WHAT ABOUT THE ORTHODOX CLERGY WHO ARE NOT OF ROCOR?

      The parishioners are their
      spiritual sons and daughters. We all love our beloved ROCOR. It is not a
      "them against us" battle. Speaking for myself, I have one concern and one
      burning desire - Orthodoxy!

      DEFINED AS NARROWLY AS POSSIBLE? NOW I'VE SEEN IT ALL: "BOB JONES"
      ORTHODOXY! "A HOUSE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF CANNOT STAND." (NO, MY FELLOW
      AMERICANS, THAT'S NOT FROM ABE LINCOLN.)
      I GUESS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER IS THIS: IS ROCOR _A_ CHURCH OR _THE_
      CHURCH? ~ALYPIUS--WITHOUT EXPLANATION, MY POSTS HAVE BEEN SET FOR REVIEW
      EVER SINCE I POSTED A RESPONSE TO FATHER MICHAEL AZKOUL--EVEN THOUGH THE
      LATTER DESCRIBED MY LETTER AS "FRIENDLY." IF THIS REPLY DOES NOT APPEAR ON
      THE LIST, DUE TO ITS NOT CONFORMING TO A ROCOR VERSION OF POLITICAL
      CORRECTNESS, AND/OR DUE TO THE INCREASINGLY OBVIOUS ANIMOSITY OF MY PARISH
      PRIEST-CUM-LIST MANAGER TOWARDS ME, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THOSE PARTIES
      WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ADDRESSED TO THEIR PRIVATE EMAIL ADDRESSES MUST
      REPLY PRIVATELY. THIS IS INTENDED TO BE A PUBLIC POSTING. ALSO, FORGIVE
      THE CAPS, BUT THE ">" SYMBOL DID NOT APPEAR BEFORE THE QUOTED PASSAGES AS I
      COMPOSED THIS RESPONSE. THANK YOU ALL, INCLUDING FR STEPHEN, FOR YOUR
      PATIENCE. IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES OVER WHO IS THE CHURCH ARE NOT TO BE
      CONSTRUED AS PERSONAL DISLIKE. I THINK MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS.


      ------------------------------------------------------------------------

      eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.