[orthodox-synod] Re: Fw: Answers to R. Miller and K. Kettenhofen (part 2)
- AMONG MANY OF TODAY'S ORTHODOX, THERE SEEMS TO BE AN IMPATIENCE WITH THEIR
(UNACKNOWLEDGED?) BROTHERS IN "WORLD ORTHODOXY"--AND WITH THE MODERATE WING
OF ROCOR--THAT STRIKES ME AS EXCEEDING WHAT ONE FINDS IN THE CHURCH'S
HISTORY OF DEALING WITH, FOR EXAMPLE, ROME, THE MONOPHYSITES, OR THE
NESTORIANS. IT MAKES ME THINK OF THE OLD BELIEVER DISPUTE, IN WHICH THE OLD
BELIEVERS WENT SO FAR AS TO STATE THAT THE REIGNING TSAR WAS THE ANTICHRIST.
I UNDERSTAND NOW WHY SO MANY CLERGY OUTSIDE ROCOR HAVE SUCH A POOR OPINION
OF US. ITS NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL ECUMENISTS AND MODERNISTS. PRIEST
STEPHEN'S RECENT POST READS LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF A HAL LINDSEY BOOK.
REMINDS ME OF MY DAYS AS A HARDSHELL FUNDMENTAL BAPTIST. SO WHEN'S THE NEXT
ROCOR BIBLE PROPHECY SEMINAR?
Some (many?) of us in the ROCOR are concerned about the
apostasy from Orthodoxy taking place in *all*+ of the local
Churches today: the
Church of Christ is getting smaller; therefore, the salvation of
souls is getting less - perhaps even the salvation of those who now
*are* Orthodox. Christ has told us that when he comes again
the faith will be hard to find. Metropolitan Vitally has also written
that the true Body and Blood of Christ will be found only in a
There is merely
an angst warning us about the end times and its consequences for
those who are trying to be followers of Christ. We know that the majority
of those who call themselves Orthodox will, in fact, be outside
1) we are not to have any dialogue with the MP; neither on the parish,
monastic, nor patriarchal level. (How can the MP have grace when
we consider it infected with the heresies of Sergianism and
uncanonical; and non-existent? It is, in fact, schismatic. We have
not recognized the elevation of anyone to the Patriarchal Throne
St. Tikhon! Do schismatics and heretics have grace?)
IF THIS WERE THE FORMAL TEACHING OF THE ROCOR BISHOPS, WHO REALLY WOULD BE
IN SCHISM? "LET HIM THAT THINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL."
2) since we regard the OCA as being in schism from us, we are not to
have even "prayerful communion" with them.
3) the Anathema of 83 has settled once and for all our stand against
those who proclaim the ecumenist dogma and who belong to
their organizations. We are not in communion with them.
(The Serbian Patriarchate is one of these. How can one commemorate
the Pope and still be Orthodox? How can any Orthodox Christian be
in communion with such a one?)
4) the Church Abroad has not *officially* said there is no grace outside
her. Since this is so, she allows us the possibility of using extreme
discretion and caution in any decision we may make about giving
the mysteries to those not of her. (In making these decisions we
are *not* to give scandal to those of us who are "weaker" or lack
understanding. Those of the household come *first,* then, others.
St. Paul would not even touch meat if in doing so it would give
Any decision to give pastoral comfort to those not in communion with
us must take into consideration *all* who *are* of us. Furthermore,
since no direction (at least not definitive) has been forthcoming
concerning giving the mysteries to those with whom we are not in
communion, using discretion *not* to give must be respected by
those who use occasional, extreme discretion *to* give. Under the
present circumstances, not to give the mysteries is the better
All the clergy of the ROCOR are brothers in Christ.
AND WHAT ABOUT THE ORTHODOX CLERGY WHO ARE NOT OF ROCOR?
The parishioners are their
spiritual sons and daughters. We all love our beloved ROCOR. It is not a
"them against us" battle. Speaking for myself, I have one concern and one
burning desire - Orthodoxy!
DEFINED AS NARROWLY AS POSSIBLE? NOW I'VE SEEN IT ALL: "BOB JONES"
ORTHODOXY! "A HOUSE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF CANNOT STAND." (NO, MY FELLOW
AMERICANS, THAT'S NOT FROM ABE LINCOLN.)
I GUESS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER IS THIS: IS ROCOR _A_ CHURCH OR _THE_
CHURCH? ~ALYPIUS--WITHOUT EXPLANATION, MY POSTS HAVE BEEN SET FOR REVIEW
EVER SINCE I POSTED A RESPONSE TO FATHER MICHAEL AZKOUL--EVEN THOUGH THE
LATTER DESCRIBED MY LETTER AS "FRIENDLY." IF THIS REPLY DOES NOT APPEAR ON
THE LIST, DUE TO ITS NOT CONFORMING TO A ROCOR VERSION OF POLITICAL
CORRECTNESS, AND/OR DUE TO THE INCREASINGLY OBVIOUS ANIMOSITY OF MY PARISH
PRIEST-CUM-LIST MANAGER TOWARDS ME, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THOSE PARTIES
WHO RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE ADDRESSED TO THEIR PRIVATE EMAIL ADDRESSES MUST
REPLY PRIVATELY. THIS IS INTENDED TO BE A PUBLIC POSTING. ALSO, FORGIVE
THE CAPS, BUT THE ">" SYMBOL DID NOT APPEAR BEFORE THE QUOTED PASSAGES AS I
COMPOSED THIS RESPONSE. THANK YOU ALL, INCLUDING FR STEPHEN, FOR YOUR
PATIENCE. IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES OVER WHO IS THE CHURCH ARE NOT TO BE
CONSTRUED AS PERSONAL DISLIKE. I THINK MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS.
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