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undermining our metropolitan & hierarchs

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  • frraphver
    In a previous post from Fr John Shaw there was a remark to the effect that certain misinformation serves to undermine the efforts of our metropolitan &
    Message 1 of 32 , May 24, 2004
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      In a previous post from Fr John Shaw there was a remark to the
      effect that certain misinformation serves to undermine the efforts
      of our metropolitan & hierarchs towards reconciliation. This point
      about 'undermining' helps clarify for myself at least the point Fr
      David Moser was making about 'loyal opposition'.
      As members of our church (and especially as priests and those in
      positions of responsability within the church) we have a
      responsability concerning obedience. Of course this does not mean
      mindless agreement with everything told us. But I think we should
      agree on the proper nature of disagreement and how this is expressed.
      Disagreement within the Church must always be grounded in obedience,
      humility and above all faith or else it will verge towards self-
      will. In other words behind disagreement should be the
      understanding that at the end of the day, all is in God's hands.
      Many times the members of the Church have been purified by difficult
      trials: on the other hand extreme efforts towards
      achieving 'correct' ends at times expresses human desires for
      a 'perfect' and indeed 'safe' world in which one is not tempted and
      there is little suffering over the issues. Of course one does not
      want to go too far in either direction here- we do not want an
      attitude of 'anything goes'; but equally we do not want attitude
      of 'I'm in control'.
      So much the more does all of this apply in regards to our rightful
      hierarchs whom we owe obedience and honour. I must say that at times
      I have seen in our church a most egregious example of disobedience
      and self-will. My spirtual father used to call this, "taking the
      reins into our own hands."
      Our metropolitan & hierarchs have set before us the course they wish
      for us to go- reconciliation. Of course they do not mean
      reconcilitaion at all costs. Of course we may have our own
      reservations and of course we may express this. But certain things
      presently being said by those against reconciliation imply that i)
      our hierarchs are leading us astray in the most fundamental way-
      almost or tantamount to heresy; & ii)that those in schism are the
      ones who have chosen the correct path. This I believe to be 'un-
      loyal oppostion'.
      First of all we have a responsability to provide an example of
      humble leadership to our people (I am talking mainly of priests; but
      this applies to the laity who are also called to be an example to
      others also). Statements that give the impression that following or
      not following our bishops is not so important compared to what we
      think correct are deeply pernicious for they encourage self-will;
      the same self-will that usually ends up biting the very person who
      taught such things in the first place. We cannot expect humility of
      our people unless we express this ourself in our own attitudes.
      Some of those who are most adamantly in oppositon to our hierarchs
      are trying to 'skate on both sides of the pond.' They claim a great
      loyalty to the principles of our church and then stand in
      fundamental opposition to her hierarchs. Even when our hierarchs try
      to explain that these are not really the principles of our church
      this is still not accepted. Having known quite well those who have
      already left our church I now I think recognise the pattern at work.
      Trying to take 'the reins of control' into their own hands their
      hearts & minds are already slipping into schism from the rest of the
      Church. All of these groups we tragically see now around us are the
      fulfillment of this already occuring 'inner schism'.
      About these things I feel we must all be extremely careful.
      In Christ- Fr Raphael Vereshack
    • michael nikitin
      I m glad Fr.John agrees with the rest of the post. Michael N Fr. John R. Shaw wrote: ... Patriarch ... JRS: In his polemical exchange of
      Message 32 of 32 , Jun 2, 2004
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        I'm glad Fr.John agrees with the rest of the post.

        Michael N

        "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:

        > The ROCOR was founded in 1920, in accordance with a directive of
        > Tikhon.

        JRS: In his polemical exchange of articles with Fr. Joseph Pishtey, in
        the aftermath of the 1970 Autocephaly of the OCA, Fr. George Grabbe
        denied that 1920 was technically the correct date for the formation of

        The correct year was 1921, which is why ROCOR celebrated its 50th
        anniversary in the fall of 1971 -- following the Montreal Sobor of that

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw

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