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Father Gleb Yakunin. was Websites for ROCOR visit to Russia

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  • frvboldewskul@aol.com
    Dear Fr. Basil, If I recall, Gleb Pavlovich Yakunin was defrocked. I had spent some time with him and his family in 1997 (his wife is a remarkable pious
    Message 1 of 5 , May 16, 2004
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      Dear Fr. Basil,
      If I recall, Gleb Pavlovich Yakunin was defrocked. I had spent some time
      with him and his family in 1997 (his wife is a remarkable pious woman). I lived
      in his apartment for a month. Then, the issue was his involvement in politics,
      which the Patriarchate forbade (he was a representative in the Duma). There
      was that awful telecast of a fight between him and a woman. Anyway, when I met
      up with him on an airplane flight to Moscow from Washington two years ago, he
      told me that he had started a renovationist community. Is he still active in
      the renovationist movement in Russia?

      (Even in 1996, he complained that the Orthodox services were too long, that
      they needed to be rewritten, and that there should be many parallel
      jurisdictions in Russia like in America. He particularly praised Bishop Valentine then).
      Yakunin also had nothing good to say about our Church, calling it an old rite
      group that serves in the new rite. He said we were way too conservative, but
      useful for the sake of democratic choice in Russia.

      In Christ,
      Priest Victor Boldewskul

      In a message dated 5/16/04 7:56:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, batushka@...
      writes:

      > True, it is unfortunate that texts are passed along without footnotes to
      > reference the actual, traceable examples. But a few weeks ago I spoke with
      > Father Gleb Yakunin. He stated that when doing research in the KGB archives he
      > had discovered a great deal of embarrassing information on Archbishop Mark's
      > association with the KGB branch in East Germany. It sounds like the same sort
      > of story as has surfaced here.
      >
      > It was right there with Patriarch Alexei's involvement in Father Gleb's
      > imprisonment by the KGB. The patriarch had direct bearing on Father Gleb's
      > imprisonment - keeping him in prison. The files were then closed to any further
      > investigations. When Father Gleb met with our hierarchs in NYC he shared this
      > same information. What reason would he have had to make such information up ?
      >
      > Archpriest Basil Grisel
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fr. Basil Grisel
      Dear Father Victor, Xpuctoc Bockpece ! Your first paragraph is about as close as it gets. Matushka Iraida is very sweet, pious, and loving person. I was
      Message 2 of 5 , May 17, 2004
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        Dear Father Victor, Xpuctoc Bockpece !

        Your first paragraph is about as close as it gets. Matushka Iraida is very sweet, pious, and loving person. I was deeply impressed by her family history alone, and you have to admire her for her courage in the face of the Soviets. Make you often wonder why more matushki aren't glorified by the church. She took such good care of us while we were in Moscow.

        I had "grown up" in seminary revering Father Gleb, having learned of his struggles through Father John Meyendorff. I regret that he has "gone off the deep end". He may have mellowed a bit toward ROCOR, although he may have done that for my sake. He was respectful of our hierarchy. He regretted that we were moving "swiftly" toward reunion (As was a friend of mine who is a student of the Academy). Father Gleb was highly vocal about the ills of the Moscow Patriarchate, which I felt may have been a little too severe. (Yes, you heard me right) He still sits on the Duma. He is active in some strange group which reveres Father Alexander Men in an almost cultish way that disturbed me - but then, based upon his conversations his "new age" Orthodoxy just blew me away. His daughter Anna doesn't even attend his parish.....

        Our stay with the Yakunin family was very pleasant. Thank God, our entire trip to Moscow was wonderful. I pray that our Metropolitan and entourage have a spiritually fruitful journey.

        In XC, Father Basil
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: frvboldewskul@...<mailto:frvboldewskul@...>
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 11:14 PM
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Father Gleb Yakunin. was Websites for ROCOR visit to Russia


        Dear Fr. Basil,
        If I recall, Gleb Pavlovich Yakunin was defrocked. I had spent some time
        with him and his family in 1997 (his wife is a remarkable pious woman). I lived
        in his apartment for a month. Then, the issue was his involvement in politics,
        which the Patriarchate forbade (he was a representative in the Duma). There
        was that awful telecast of a fight between him and a woman. Anyway, when I met
        up with him on an airplane flight to Moscow from Washington two years ago, he
        told me that he had started a renovationist community. Is he still active in
        the renovationist movement in Russia?

        (Even in 1996, he complained that the Orthodox services were too long, that
        they needed to be rewritten, and that there should be many parallel
        jurisdictions in Russia like in America. He particularly praised Bishop Valentine then).
        Yakunin also had nothing good to say about our Church, calling it an old rite
        group that serves in the new rite. He said we were way too conservative, but
        useful for the sake of democratic choice in Russia.

        In Christ,
        Priest Victor Boldewskul

        In a message dated 5/16/04 7:56:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, batushka@...<mailto:batushka@...>
        writes:

        > True, it is unfortunate that texts are passed along without footnotes to
        > reference the actual, traceable examples. But a few weeks ago I spoke with
        > Father Gleb Yakunin. He stated that when doing research in the KGB archives he
        > had discovered a great deal of embarrassing information on Archbishop Mark's
        > association with the KGB branch in East Germany. It sounds like the same sort
        > of story as has surfaced here.
        >
        > It was right there with Patriarch Alexei's involvement in Father Gleb's
        > imprisonment by the KGB. The patriarch had direct bearing on Father Gleb's
        > imprisonment - keeping him in prison. The files were then closed to any further
        > investigations. When Father Gleb met with our hierarchs in NYC he shared this
        > same information. What reason would he have had to make such information up ?
        >
        > Archpriest Basil Grisel
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Fr. John R. Shaw
        ... time ... JRS: He had already been defrocked before then. ... ago, he ... active in ... JRS: The renovationist movement, like the sect of the Khlysty, had
        Message 3 of 5 , May 17, 2004
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          Fr. Victor Boldewskul wrote:

          > If I recall, Gleb Pavlovich Yakunin was defrocked. I had spent some
          time
          > with him and his family in 1997...

          JRS: He had already been defrocked before then.

          > when I met
          > up with him on an airplane flight to Moscow from Washington two years
          ago, he
          > told me that he had started a renovationist community. Is he still
          active in
          > the renovationist movement in Russia?

          JRS: The renovationist movement, like the sect of the Khlysty, had
          supposedly died out. Now they say that both of them are back again.

          > (Even in 1996, he complained that the Orthodox services were too
          long, that
          > they needed to be rewritten, and that there should be many parallel
          > jurisdictions in Russia like in America. He particularly praised
          Bishop Valentine then).

          JRS: With "many parallel jurisdictions", something that never existed
          in the Orthodox Church prior to the Russian revolution, it becomes hard
          to enforce any discipline among the clergy. If a priest (like Gleb
          Yakunin) gets into trouble, all he has to do is switch to some
          jurisdiction that is at odds with his old one. That, rather than
          ideology, was why Valentine of Suzdal became such a "confessor of the
          faith" by switching to ROCOR: he, like Gleb Yakunin, was under
          discipline for seeking election to a political post.

          > Yakunin also had nothing good to say about our Church, calling it an
          old rite
          > group that serves in the new rite. He said we were way too
          conservative, but
          > useful for the sake of democratic choice in Russia.

          > In a message dated 5/16/04 7:56:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
          batushka@...
          > writes:

          > But a few weeks ago I spoke with
          > > Father Gleb Yakunin. He stated that when doing research in the KGB
          archives he
          > > had discovered a great deal of embarrassing information on
          Archbishop Mark's
          > > association with the KGB branch in East Germany. It sounds like the
          same sort
          > > of story as has surfaced here.
          > What reason would he have had to make such information up ?

          JRS: Not "the same *kind* of story" -- the *same* story, from the same
          source.

          It's perfectly clear that Archbishop Mark was not a KGB operative. If
          he had been, the State Department and the local government in Germany
          would have taken an interest in the case long ago.

          But the KGB obviously would have a motive in "releasing information"
          designed to embarrass ROCOR, just as it had a motive in trying to
          embarrass the Russian Orthodox Church by claiming the Patriarch
          as "involved".

          If either of these hierarchs had really been KGB agents, the KGB would
          have protected their identity, just as the FBI and CIA do with their
          own.

          Gleb Yakunin's motives for blackening the names of those he opposes,
          would be best known to him.

          In Christ
          Fr. John R. Shaw
        • Fr. Basil Grisel
          Father John, I agree. Father Gleb seems to have soured over many bad things going on in Russia. I listened with half an ear. We were a bit disturbed by his
          Message 4 of 5 , May 17, 2004
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            Father John,

            I agree. Father Gleb seems to have soured over many bad things going on in Russia. I listened with half an ear. We were a bit disturbed by his wish to be in the spotlight again.

            XB ! Father Basil
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Fr. John R. Shaw<mailto:vrevjrs@...>
            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com> ; orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:17 AM
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Father Gleb Yakunin. was Websites for ROCOR visit to Russia


            Fr. Victor Boldewskul wrote:

            > If I recall, Gleb Pavlovich Yakunin was defrocked. I had spent some
            time
            > with him and his family in 1997...

            JRS: He had already been defrocked before then.

            > when I met
            > up with him on an airplane flight to Moscow from Washington two years
            ago, he
            > told me that he had started a renovationist community. Is he still
            active in
            > the renovationist movement in Russia?

            JRS: The renovationist movement, like the sect of the Khlysty, had
            supposedly died out. Now they say that both of them are back again.

            > (Even in 1996, he complained that the Orthodox services were too
            long, that
            > they needed to be rewritten, and that there should be many parallel
            > jurisdictions in Russia like in America. He particularly praised
            Bishop Valentine then).

            JRS: With "many parallel jurisdictions", something that never existed
            in the Orthodox Church prior to the Russian revolution, it becomes hard
            to enforce any discipline among the clergy. If a priest (like Gleb
            Yakunin) gets into trouble, all he has to do is switch to some
            jurisdiction that is at odds with his old one. That, rather than
            ideology, was why Valentine of Suzdal became such a "confessor of the
            faith" by switching to ROCOR: he, like Gleb Yakunin, was under
            discipline for seeking election to a political post.

            > Yakunin also had nothing good to say about our Church, calling it an
            old rite
            > group that serves in the new rite. He said we were way too
            conservative, but
            > useful for the sake of democratic choice in Russia.

            > In a message dated 5/16/04 7:56:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
            batushka@...<mailto:batushka@...>
            > writes:

            > But a few weeks ago I spoke with
            > > Father Gleb Yakunin. He stated that when doing research in the KGB
            archives he
            > > had discovered a great deal of embarrassing information on
            Archbishop Mark's
            > > association with the KGB branch in East Germany. It sounds like the
            same sort
            > > of story as has surfaced here.
            > What reason would he have had to make such information up ?

            JRS: Not "the same *kind* of story" -- the *same* story, from the same
            source.

            It's perfectly clear that Archbishop Mark was not a KGB operative. If
            he had been, the State Department and the local government in Germany
            would have taken an interest in the case long ago.

            But the KGB obviously would have a motive in "releasing information"
            designed to embarrass ROCOR, just as it had a motive in trying to
            embarrass the Russian Orthodox Church by claiming the Patriarch
            as "involved".

            If either of these hierarchs had really been KGB agents, the KGB would
            have protected their identity, just as the FBI and CIA do with their
            own.

            Gleb Yakunin's motives for blackening the names of those he opposes,
            would be best known to him.

            In Christ
            Fr. John R. Shaw




            Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod<http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod>


            Yahoo! Groups Links







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • frraphver
            On the KGB involvement of hierarchs, etc. Yes I also have not trusted some of the reports of hierachs being agents in cassocks . During the Soviet time some
            Message 5 of 5 , May 17, 2004
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              On the KGB involvement of hierarchs, etc.
              Yes I also have not trusted some of the reports of hierachs
              being 'agents in cassocks'. During the Soviet time some were. Others
              were basically vetted as being 'safe'.
              I have studied this subject for ten years now. One of the best books
              on this is called the Mitrokhin Archive. In reading this one is made
              aware of of just how sophisticated Soviet (and post-Soviet?) mis-
              information operations were. A whole department of the KGB was
              devoted just to this. Many tachniques were used to blacken people's
              names but one of the most common of course was 'the leak'. The KGB
              was also incredibly adept at psychological aspects of provocation
              (ie not simply rough-stuff all the time). Part of the preparation
              for the operation would ascertaining the likelihood of the target
              group (eg ROCOR or the Church in Russia) falling into the trap of
              believing the 'leak from reliable sources'. By the time the Soviet
              regime fell, the KGB had become extremely proficient at the 'back-
              door' technique of trying to destroy or at least taint the influence
              of some group. They knew from long study & experience that the best
              way to achieve this was to get the group suspicious of each other &
              fighting among themselves. One example Mitrokhin reveals from the
              KGB files concerns the Uniates who were a constant thorn in the side
              especially in the Ukraine. Here a leak was dropped that a top bishop
              (I forget who) was involved in immoral behaviour.
              Another aspect of KGB work was working through multiple
              organisations to protect the ultimate source. Very often the 'agent'
              had no idea who he was working for. Similiarly code-names were used
              for targets, those who did not realise they were really being
              controlled by the security apparatus, and those who knew they were.
              Apart from those who went consciously into 'state-security' as a
              career choice, in fact the least desired method of agent recruitment
              was the open sitting down and 'work with us' method since this is
              the most potentially dangerous from a security standpoint. Most
              really did not know who they were working for or else they could
              only suspect who they were working for. The idea we often have in
              the west that the KGB just called a bishop in and told him , "you
              are now working for us" is quite naive.
              Fr Raphael Vereshack











              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
              <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
              > Fr. Victor Boldewskul wrote:
              >
              > > If I recall, Gleb Pavlovich Yakunin was defrocked. I had spent
              some
              > time
              > > with him and his family in 1997...
              >
              > JRS: He had already been defrocked before then.
              >
              > > when I met
              > > up with him on an airplane flight to Moscow from Washington two
              years
              > ago, he
              > > told me that he had started a renovationist community. Is he
              still
              > active in
              > > the renovationist movement in Russia?
              >
              > JRS: The renovationist movement, like the sect of the Khlysty, had
              > supposedly died out. Now they say that both of them are back
              again.
              >
              > > (Even in 1996, he complained that the Orthodox services were too
              > long, that
              > > they needed to be rewritten, and that there should be many
              parallel
              > > jurisdictions in Russia like in America. He particularly
              praised
              > Bishop Valentine then).
              >
              > JRS: With "many parallel jurisdictions", something that never
              existed
              > in the Orthodox Church prior to the Russian revolution, it becomes
              hard
              > to enforce any discipline among the clergy. If a priest (like Gleb
              > Yakunin) gets into trouble, all he has to do is switch to some
              > jurisdiction that is at odds with his old one. That, rather than
              > ideology, was why Valentine of Suzdal became such a "confessor of
              the
              > faith" by switching to ROCOR: he, like Gleb Yakunin, was under
              > discipline for seeking election to a political post.
              >
              > > Yakunin also had nothing good to say about our Church, calling
              it an
              > old rite
              > > group that serves in the new rite. He said we were way too
              > conservative, but
              > > useful for the sake of democratic choice in Russia.
              >
              > > In a message dated 5/16/04 7:56:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
              > batushka@m...
              > > writes:
              >
              > > But a few weeks ago I spoke with
              > > > Father Gleb Yakunin. He stated that when doing research in the
              KGB
              > archives he
              > > > had discovered a great deal of embarrassing information on
              > Archbishop Mark's
              > > > association with the KGB branch in East Germany. It sounds
              like the
              > same sort
              > > > of story as has surfaced here.
              > > What reason would he have had to make such information up ?
              >
              > JRS: Not "the same *kind* of story" -- the *same* story, from the
              same
              > source.
              >
              > It's perfectly clear that Archbishop Mark was not a KGB operative.
              If
              > he had been, the State Department and the local government in
              Germany
              > would have taken an interest in the case long ago.
              >
              > But the KGB obviously would have a motive in "releasing
              information"
              > designed to embarrass ROCOR, just as it had a motive in trying to
              > embarrass the Russian Orthodox Church by claiming the Patriarch
              > as "involved".
              >
              > If either of these hierarchs had really been KGB agents, the KGB
              would
              > have protected their identity, just as the FBI and CIA do with
              their
              > own.
              >
              > Gleb Yakunin's motives for blackening the names of those he
              opposes,
              > would be best known to him.
              >
              > In Christ
              > Fr. John R. Shaw
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